Draft: PvP Community Wish List
By
Acanous_Quietus,
Posted on: 2007-11-14 18:29 in Everything about PvP
posting in a legendary thread.
I have one disagreement here
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7. The difficulty of leveling and equipping toons decreases the number of people who can get involved in competitive PvP. Make a paid PvP expansion where you can auto level to 50 and get unlimited loot for a toon, but can only play in the arena and PvP zones.
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That right there would kill any reason for me to play the rest of the game, I would just but the xpac, make a 50 of each class and simply play no other aspect of the game. The problem here is that, not only does it offer bad players the opportunity to jump into something they know absolutely nothing about (as they didnt have the 1-50 journey under their belts to give any amount of experience) but it would inevitably make things dull
cool stuff isnt cool when everyone has it, amirite?
outside of that I agree with everything you stated and would like to enforce my top three concerns/proposed changes
1. Make pvp zones cross server. Whether it be battlegroups (ex Pinnacle, Justice, Champion = Battle Group Alpha; Freedom, Triumph, Infinity = Battle Ground Beta, ect) or All servers (which would make zone pvp VERY interesting and VERY fun imo). Also connect all servers in the arena, its ridiculous to have to go to the test server to do real arena.
2. PPPs and APPs. Seriously. Its been long enough. I dont want to compare two classes like this but for the sake of argument.....I'll take blaster FoN from Force or Hibernate from Ice over, say, a stalker's worthless ranged damage attacks (one being a snipe which is stupidly placed when you have AS) and a worthless pet ANY DAY. Keep PPPs but add APPs to the villain choices as well. Hell, you could even add a PPP-like option for heroes if you wanted. The way to work this out would be to make the PPP permanent as it currently is and when a person wants to spec out of their APPs and use patron powers, they have only the choice to take the PPP they had chosen. This is rather complicated but [censored] happens when you mess up on such a huge part of the game, right.
3. This is one that wasn't suggested in the first post and I didn't read everything so it may have been suggested already but I think a VERY nice improvement to the game would be to be able to Disable/Enable an option to Auto Join a team when entering a PvP zone. This allows for the players just killing a few minutes on their break or what have you to experience pvp and not just get killed over and over by the organized team camping their base while also allowing those who prefer solo or those who want to organize a more strategic team from the getgo to do so uninterrupted. Once you join the team, you could leave and solo or join another team, the auto join team function would only take place when you first zone in.
Along with suggestion #3 would have to be a new window that let you view each team in the zone for your perspective side (ie heroes see all the hero teams, villains see villains. obviously) The pane could look a lot like the "Find Players" pane and would allow you to see what teams look more organized, what teams are SG teams, ect.
Think of the look as a combo of WW pane and the "Find Players" Pane, you could see a list of the names/classes of group leaders and a click on said name would provide a dropdown that lists the name/class of the people in his group.
I firmly believe that this thread could usher in the "golden age" of CoH pvp and really take something with IMMENSE potential and make it shine
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
My votes:
No Meaningful Rewards
Instanced PvP Missions - this would be awesome
Flight Not Viable
VIllians/Heroes ballanced
Selectable maps
+perc pre sirens for villians
PvP expantion
Fix Fury for brutes in pvp
Cross server pvp
better rewards for pvp
tuitorial for newbs on pvp
add pvp game types: capture the flag/king of the hill ect.
Make warburg cross faction teamable
great work putz!
"You, dear sir, are a legend. "- nelly. "PIE DOESN'T HAVE TENTACLES!"
Bladewing Draconian lvl 30 KAT/SR scrapper
DarkNinjutsu lvl 50 DM/REG scrapper
Dajoji Hino lvl 50 elm/ela scrapper
Bloody Byakko lvl 20 claws/sr scrapper
Observer Bot makeover
Selectable Maps
Paid PvP Expansion
Recipe Rewards
Inspriation Limit
and premade tournament formats (Read: Kickball, Lethal Lottery, etc).
Selectable maps
Hero-Villain Balance
Cross-server PvP
Paid PvP Expansion ( Guild Wars has the option to make a pvp char from the start - wtf devs get on this srsly)
Villain Lack of +per
OAS Timer Issues
Observer Bot Issues
Accolades while Exemping
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7. The difficulty of leveling and equipping toons decreases the number of people who can get involved in competitive PvP. Make a paid PvP expansion where you can auto level to 50 and get unlimited loot for a toon, but can only play in the arena and PvP zones.
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That right there would kill any reason for me to play the rest of the game, I would just but the xpac, make a 50 of each class and simply play no other aspect of the game. The problem here is that, not only does it offer bad players the opportunity to jump into something they know absolutely nothing about (as they didnt have the 1-50 journey under their belts to give any amount of experience) but it would inevitably make things dull
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It wouldn't really make it dull, you now have a character for the exact purpose of creation - PvP
Guild wars has had the option for making max level chars from the get go and thats why it has such a thriving pvp community. Honestly there isnt a reason that all games shouldn't have something like this. Not only does it make testing builds much easier, but if you need a kin and no one has one instead of leveling one to 50, you can just create one, fixing the problem entirely.
The majority of people who PvP can't stand leveling, because lets face it, the AI is stupid and it gets boring incredibly fast. This just lets people cut to the chase and get to the good stuff, the pvp
I do not feel that dev time should be spent on PvP personally. My reasoning is over here for the curious but this thread is not the place for it.
That said, there is one suggestion here that I feel would be actively detrimental to the overall game if implemented. Specifically this:
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4. There arent any meaningful rewards to encourage participation in PvP. Add zone rewards that are for PvPing, not for doing PvE activities in PvP zones.
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In my experience a reward that is 'meaningful' means a reward that is harder or impossible to get another way when it comes to PvP. This is almost akin to forcing PvE completionists to participate in a segment of the game they have zero interest in. Personally, I can skip any non-accolade badge that comes from a PvP reward. No issues with those. However, if you start adding powers, accolades, costume pieces as PvP rewards this turns into a problem. Honestly, the costume system and tweaking and experimenting with builds keeps me here second only to the social aspect. Putting segments of either of those into part of the game that I do not want to have to pay attention to as more than an occasional diversion would be discouraging to me as a player.
While the comparison to other games is not normally allowed here and I will not go into it for that reason, I can think of another game that linked 'meaningful rewards' to PvP while I was playing and how many of my PvE centric friends left within the following months because they felt non-competitive in the PvE game as they did not dedicate time to grinding out PvP rewards.
Welcome to our world. Many of us feel the same way about PvE grinding, loot farming, and accolade hunting. While I understand what you mean, I'm sure it would be possible to find rewards that are either unimportant to PvEers, or just simply equal to PvE rewards. Maybe that means rewards like like a base teleporter that only goes to PvP zones, or maybe that means cashing in several hours worth of bounty for a recipe drop - something several hours of PvE will easily yield.
Edit: Also, if you think it's a waste of time for devs to improve PvP, than this isn't the place for you. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss why PvP isn't worth it, but this is a thread for PvPers to consolidate their hopes and suggestions for the game [u]they[u] play.
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I do not feel that dev time should be spent on PvP personally.
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I'm sorry, what?
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7. The difficulty of leveling and equipping toons decreases the number of people who can get involved in competitive PvP. Make a paid PvP expansion where you can auto level to 50 and get unlimited loot for a toon, but can only play in the arena and PvP zones.
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That right there would kill any reason for me to play the rest of the game, I would just but the xpac, make a 50 of each class and simply play no other aspect of the game. The problem here is that, not only does it offer bad players the opportunity to jump into something they know absolutely nothing about (as they didnt have the 1-50 journey under their belts to give any amount of experience) but it would inevitably make things dull
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It wouldn't really make it dull, you now have a character for the exact purpose of creation - PvP
Guild wars has had the option for making max level chars from the get go and thats why it has such a thriving pvp community. Honestly there isnt a reason that all games shouldn't have something like this. Not only does it make testing builds much easier, but if you need a kin and no one has one instead of leveling one to 50, you can just create one, fixing the problem entirely.
The majority of people who PvP can't stand leveling, because lets face it, the AI is stupid and it gets boring incredibly fast. This just lets people cut to the chase and get to the good stuff, the pvp
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Ive been playing guild wars since release, the pvp character feature works well with the game because i can literally go 1-20 (20 is max lvl) in a day to a day and a half, all the content in the game post 20 is 1) farming and 2) pvping
Taking out 2 days of content to make a pvp only character, im ok with that
taking out 1 1/2 - 2 months of content, that im not ok with
not to mention GW has such a different combat system that you cant compare the two and, you guessed it, now that I literally have everything I could possibly want in GW, im off to another game
Content is what makes everything fun, a free 50 may seem like a good idea but it really degenerates character progression
I really suggest that you play GW or Fury if you want this type of gameplay, it really doesnt fit in CoH imo
Theres still hope for a similiar system though. If a feature were added that allowed you to make an auto 50 of a class youve taken to 50 (ie you can make a pvp-only tanker if you lvld a tanker to 50, maybe you dont want that invuln/mace and want to go ice/nrg)
that, I think, would balance everything out and make this a viable feature
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
I agree with everything said and proposed... god I would love to see almost all of these happen.
One thing I didnt see... how about adding arena kiosks to zones?
Just adding in my opinion but if they gave us 2 builds, (one for pvp and one for pve), wouldn't most people use it for one team pvp build and the other for a 1v1 pvp build?
Uhh sure you can get that character to max level in 1 or 2 days
But now go get all the elites and skills you need to actually be worthwhile to even use in pvp
Its the same thing
Combat system has no relevance to what I am saying
Also you will have to explain to me how making a pvp char in GW gives you everything you could want in GW out of the pve
It only gives you skills
PvE in guild wars is entirely different than the PvP in that game, you can't say that by making a PvP character you have done all that you could have wanted to in GW
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Edit: Also, if you think it's a waste of time for devs to improve PvP, than this isn't the place for you. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss why PvP isn't worth it, but this is a thread for PvPers to consolidate their hopes and suggestions for the game [u]they[u] play.
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If you had actually read the linked post you would note that I do PvP casually so this is part of the game I do play. Besides, I've seen too many 'surveys' in this game that created a false urgency because they were placed in specific places where only those who felt the entire issue was worthwhile would see and respond.
When given a list of options, "None of the above" is a perfectly valid answer.
As far as it goes? Duplicate PvE rewards in PvP zones with equivalent effort and I have no issues. However, a large group of the populace would not consider those 'meaningful'.
Base teleporters for PvP zones? I need those for Nukes and Shivan runs as well as running PvE content in those zones.
Duplicate already existing powers or accolades with PvP content? I'm fine with that but I don't think that's what most people have in mind when they say 'meaningful'. I'd be fine with say... a version of the Atlas Accolade that took an [x] time in PvP zone badge, a kill [x] targets badge and maybe a kill [x] npc sets in PvP zones badge that added up to equal effort to the Atlas accolade. Good going and it now has a reason to PvP without forcing people to go there. They can always go get the Atlas accolade instead. I don't think it would match most people's concept of 'meaningful' though because it wouldn't be a shiny only they could get.
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Yay! Thank you Pax. 
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Based on an idea from Neuronia in the other thread, here's a sudden inspiration I just had:
Replace all Unresistible Damage amounts with CHANCES for the same amount. A 50/50 chance that some portion of your attack is unresistible seems, to me, better than a flat, all-the-time proof against resistance.
And at the current time, I'd like to add:
[u]Hero-Villain Balance[u] ... especially the PPPs. Hell, even just in PvE, I am absolutely livid at how badly Villains got bait-and-switched with their Epics. It's all cut-and-paste jobs, the same friggin' powers regardless of Patron, just with different eye-candy. BAH.
[u]CoP and IoP[u] .... I don't expect to be in a raiding SG or VG any day soon, but the sooner there are regular raids happening in bases, the sooner more resources get allocated to IMPROVING bases. And that, to my mind, is of benefit not just to PvP, but also, PvE. ^_^ Enlightened self-interest, FTW!
[u]Cross-Server PvP[u] ... would probably solve any and all "population issues", right there. At least through the Arena kiosks, yeah?
And another idea of mine:
Masterminds and Pets ... I'd like to see a small chance that an attack directed at a mastermind has a small chance of, instead, hitting one of their PETS - including Auto-hit powers. Sure, sure, we have Bodyguard already ... but that doesn't help against holds, sleeps, and other "status effect only" powers. I'd even be happy to have Bodyguard halved against player attacks, if the same chances of shifting-to-another-pet were applied (IOW, with 6 pets, there'd be a 75% chance you hit one of the pets instead of the MM).
By Request of Peers on Justice.
My top 10.
1. Fix Brutes Fury so that they will be more viable in 30+ pvp and, particularily fix them asap after the defiance change goes live since it sounds like Defury that works at range.
2. Hero and villain combat is not balanced, especially in the 40+ game. IMHO Devs need to give villains PPP's that can equal or counter FA, FON, etc fad of the year hero epics that are really so much better in most situations.
3. Make a Zone that exemps everyone to 32 and greys out accolades and the INSP tray that has no bonuses for either side damage/resistance etc wise for the true 1v1 duel fans who like pitting build vs build.
4. Fix arena so that the participants can choose insps or no/accolades or no/ Temps or no/ Veterans or no/ and choose thier own damn map for crying in he night please.
5. With the coming changes to blasters please re-think the un resistable 30% (or so) damage or so they get along with Defury and IO's. A stealth capped (For their archtype) Blaster with all of the above is doom for melee opponents. I would also propose that all blasters get inherant resistance to thier own damage types say 8% of thier main element at least. I mean since when does fire hurt the human torch all that much?) Look my hands shoot fire! Awsome OW wait fire from other hands really hurts me.. LOL
6. More meaningful rewards and rankings in pvp. Why is it only about the kills? This does not promote the want for folks to perfect other non killer builds since they get little to show for it.
7. Villains have no access to ally grantable +perception in Sirens. Switch the order of sonic repulsion and clarity or do something so that its not so bare and blind if your not a stalker or MM in there. The + perception IO is a start thank you for that.
8. PvP Flight improvement add some more speed to flyers in pvp so they have a hope of catching the fast jumpers/SS building circler's and TPers more often particularilly melee flyers that are not spiners or Tankers with KB Sheesh. There is enough ways to take flyers down so give em some speed Clyde!
9. Add the bounty system to all zones as it promotes pvp also set a bloody timer on the bountey to say 15 mins or so to stop badgers and dead carcass griefers... Why has this not been done already?
10. Next issue spread the power sets around you been hoarding. Seriously Devs give mace and axe to brutes, Give Energy Armour or some power set with TP resistance to the heros. Give Stormies to the villains... what is mother nature only a good weather which in paragon? If so where the heck did the witches of Croatoa get thier powers from? While we are at it open up Croatoa as a hero+ villain Team up zone ( I know thats not pvp but to hell with it do It.)
Them's my apples...
Zen
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Uhh sure you can get that character to max level in 1 or 2 days
But now go get all the elites and skills you need to actually be worthwhile to even use in pvp
Its the same thing
Combat system has no relevance to what I am saying
Also you will have to explain to me how making a pvp char in GW gives you everything you could want in GW out of the pve
It only gives you skills
PvE in guild wars is entirely different than the PvP in that game, you can't say that by making a PvP character you have done all that you could have wanted to in GW
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PvE in GW is worthless
And in 2 days anyone can easily take a char from 1-20 and get 20+ elites and the skills to go with them, its a joke
the combat system has everything to do with it becuase in guild wars you at least have some goals on a pvp character (unlocking skills via balth faction). If it was added in CoH you would literally have everything, GW is not the same because you still need to do some minute progression
and for the record, GW's pvp crowd is very small and very european. too many people quit playing when they run out of things to do, theres a reason its free to play
This is an example of a thriving pvp community, no premade pvp chars there and a hell of a lot more character progression than should exist in a game. I may not enjoy WoW anymore but for the couple years I played it I at least had stuff to do and was never bored due to lack of content.
I dont know about you but I like my time to show for something, I put the time in and I get the rewards from it. Its not right to have Joe Badpvper come along and instantly have everything because he payed an extra 15 bucks when I spent an extra month's worth of time.
edit: WCM is down atm, these out
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
I have one:
Because people know to save tanks and brutes for last when hopping into a firestorm of PvP, how about introducing some added Knockback/Knockdown/Knockup power bonuses to Tank and Brute sets in PvP zones only?
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Uhh sure you can get that character to max level in 1 or 2 days
But now go get all the elites and skills you need to actually be worthwhile to even use in pvp
Its the same thing
Combat system has no relevance to what I am saying
Also you will have to explain to me how making a pvp char in GW gives you everything you could want in GW out of the pve
It only gives you skills
PvE in guild wars is entirely different than the PvP in that game, you can't say that by making a PvP character you have done all that you could have wanted to in GW
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the combat system has everything to do with it becuase in guild wars you at least have some goals on a pvp character (unlocking skills via balth faction).
and for the record, GW's pvp crowd is very small and very european.
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uhhh unlocking stuff via balth faction is not part of a combat system its an unlockable system, and the pvp community is definately not small at all
I like all of this, and I'm a casual PvP'er... seems reasonable though.
I am the 99%. Occupy the World.
Minister of Infinity's Secret Police, Official Mooch of dUmb and League, Official Purveyor of Free Straws, the Most Interesting Man in the World.
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Edit: Also, if you think it's a waste of time for devs to improve PvP, than this isn't the place for you. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss why PvP isn't worth it, but this is a thread for PvPers to consolidate their hopes and suggestions for the game [u]they[u] play.
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If you had actually read the linked post you would note that I do PvP casually so this is part of the game I do play. Besides, I've seen too many 'surveys' in this game that created a false urgency because they were placed in specific places where only those who felt the entire issue was worthwhile would see and respond.
When given a list of options, "None of the above" is a perfectly valid answer.
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I've read quite a few of your posts, and no, I would not count someone who believes PvP is a waste of time among the PvP community.
Nor can I imagine that anyone saying impovements aren't worth it are doing so with that community's interests in mind. No one is asking them to divert attention away from anyone else (note the relatively wide support for a paid PvP expansion). And yes, we get it, many people have other priorities.
NCSoft has announced they want to expand the brand and the franchise. None of us really know what that means, except that they want to expand their playerbase. It's a bad time to make presumptions about the limits of their resources.
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Uhh sure you can get that character to max level in 1 or 2 days
But now go get all the elites and skills you need to actually be worthwhile to even use in pvp
Its the same thing
Combat system has no relevance to what I am saying
Also you will have to explain to me how making a pvp char in GW gives you everything you could want in GW out of the pve
It only gives you skills
PvE in guild wars is entirely different than the PvP in that game, you can't say that by making a PvP character you have done all that you could have wanted to in GW
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the combat system has everything to do with it becuase in guild wars you at least have some goals on a pvp character (unlocking skills via balth faction).
and for the record, GW's pvp crowd is very small and very european.
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uhhh unlocking stuff via balth faction is not part of a combat system its an unlockable system, and the pvp community is definately not small at all
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have you ever played guild wars?
kills/runes/insigs is 90% of any encounter, skill is all in the build make up
youve also aparently never competed at the top teir of GvG or HoH, its always a battle between 2 or 3 big guilds (like the speamen in the summer of 05, they dominated HoH for a few months), sure people sit around RA/AB all day but it isnt PvP, thats an exaggerated place to test builds
@TheBro
solo pvp?
Cooler than every single owl EVER.
Latest count:
Item Number of Requests
Selectable maps 55
Hero-Villain Balance 50
Cross-server PvP 39
Paid PvP Expansion 32
No Meaningful Rewards 31
Villain Lack of +per 31
OAS Timer Issues 28
PvP and PvE Builds 27
Observer Bot Issues 25
Inspiration Tier 24
Flight Not Viable 23
Instanced PvP Missions 23
PvP Tutorial/Training Wheels 18
Non-SG Arena Match Caps 17
Fury Bug 15
/pvpcount 14
Bounty System in All Zones 14
Arena Organized Tournies 11
Remove System Matches 10
Cage Issues 6
CoP and IoPs 6
Placate Bug 6
Accolades while Exemping 5
Arena Level Issues 4
Dev Involvement 4
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Why isn't "Defense is useless" up there? I see exactly no mention of the single worst imbalance out of all the ATs/Powersets. Honestly, there is no way anyone can honestly say that ToHit vs Defense is balanced. Especially with the ridiculous amount of ToHit buffs players get (not even mentioning the ones NPCs get), there is NO reason for "Fix Defense/ToHit" not to be the number one priority.
This imbalance makes /Energy Aura, /Super Reflexes, /Ninjutsu, Ice/ (to a lesser extent, what with the insane amount of utility Ice gets), and any set relying on Defense virtually useless in PvP. Buildup, Aim, Rage, Focussed Accuracy, Geas of the Kind Ones, all of these completely negate Defense sets, and for a set like /Energy Aura, that relies completely on it's Defense (another problem entirely), it is virtually the same as the player becoming an AV for 10 seconds or more. The only way these sets survive are through their Tier9s, which double-stacked Rage (easily achievable), Buildup+AIm, or Geas can easily get through.
Fix Defense/ToHit first.
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Well, two people have mentioned this now, so perhaps we should create a spin off thread discussing the issue?
My big concern is that any nerf to tohit ends up acting as a buff to rads and ice tanks (definitely not a good idea), but we can start a discussion section to see where majority opinion is on that.