Discussion: Dec. 10th Prestige Grant & Debt Wipe
By
Acid_Bath,
Posted on: 2007-11-12 13:46 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
Have you been in Atlas lately? Its alrwady going on. One recruitment Broadcast and Request after another.
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Have you been in Atlas lately? Its alrwady going on. One recruitment Broadcast and Request after another.
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For one, that always happens. Plus, do you really spend all that much time standing around in Atlas just reading what everyone else says? Most people by now have realized that Atlas is a go in, get it done, and keep going zone. A lot of people don't even go to Atlas at all, just start out in Galaxy and avoid it all together.
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007
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Have you been in Atlas lately? Its alrwady going on. One recruitment Broadcast and Request after another.
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For one, that always happens. Plus, do you really spend all that much time standing around in Atlas just reading what everyone else says? Most people by now have realized that Atlas is a go in, get it done, and keep going zone. A lot of people don't even go to Atlas at all, just start out in Galaxy and avoid it all together.
[/ QUOTE ] Atlas Park is the zone that has the SG Register desk.
The reason you would see alot of broadcasts to join SGs there is because a bunch of level 10 noobs are standing at the desk broadcasting the SG they just made not because of the Prestige grant.
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Have you been in Atlas lately? Its alrwady going on. One recruitment Broadcast and Request after another.
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For one, that always happens. Plus, do you really spend all that much time standing around in Atlas just reading what everyone else says? Most people by now have realized that Atlas is a go in, get it done, and keep going zone. A lot of people don't even go to Atlas at all, just start out in Galaxy and avoid it all together.
[/ QUOTE ] Atlas Park is the zone that has the SG Register desk.
The reason you would see alot of broadcasts to join SGs there is because a bunch of level 10 noobs are standing at the desk broadcasting the SG they just made not because of the Prestige grant.
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....that too... 
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007
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Have you been in Atlas lately? Its alrwady going on. One recruitment Broadcast and Request after another.
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For one, that always happens. Plus, do you really spend all that much time standing around in Atlas just reading what everyone else says? Most people by now have realized that Atlas is a go in, get it done, and keep going zone. A lot of people don't even go to Atlas at all, just start out in Galaxy and avoid it all together.
[/ QUOTE ] Atlas Park is the zone that has the SG Register desk.
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Galaxy City has one too... 
I think that the free prestige is a very nice idea for a gift. I think the unintended consequences are unpleasant and bad for NCSoft though.
People are making trial accounts and new characters that they will delete after Dec 10th in order to maximize the prestige bonus they will get. There must be some cost to NCSoft for adding each trial account and then deleting each trial account.
I'd like to suggest that the prestige award be changed to a flat amount for each supergroup.
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I think that the free prestige is a very nice idea for a gift. I think the unintended consequences are unpleasant and bad for NCSoft though.
People are making trial accounts and new characters that they will delete after Dec 10th in order to maximize the prestige bonus they will get. There must be some cost to NCSoft for adding each trial account and then deleting each trial account.
I'd like to suggest that the prestige award be changed to a flat amount for each supergroup.
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I agree the 3 mill should be a flat grant, but making characters probably cost them nothing and a number of people have gotten second/third accounts which means more money for them and I'm sure there are some people who legitmately used the refer-a-friends and those are potential buyers that might get hooked. It's a win-win situation for them. Heck I had to get a *ahem* fourth account.
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I think the unintended consequences are unpleasant and bad for NCSoft though.
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May I ask what "unintended consequences" you are referring to? And just exactly how you feel they are bad for NCSoft?
See if a ton of people make up a ton of characters to pad their SGs then in the next quarterly report NCSoft gets to say; "The month immediately following our take over the number of active characters rose by 789,472. That's a 17% rise in player participation than under the old management. This is proof that the players are happy that we're in charge now and not Cryptic. This looks great for PR, and will be a great selling point next time we talk to any investors, stockholders, or potential clients."
And frankly I'm just not sure how us making a ton of padding characters is going to be "bad" for NCSoft in anyway. They obviously don't care that we're going to 'exploit' this little item. In fact Lighthouse all but came out and suggested that we do so.
Personally I like it the way it is. You want the full 3 million? Ok, but you gotta work for it baby! Too lazy to do that? Well then you get a smaller gift.
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I think the unintended consequences are unpleasant and bad for NCSoft though.
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May I ask what "unintended consequences" you are referring to? And just exactly how you feel they are bad for NCSoft?
See if a ton of people make up a ton of characters to pad their SGs then in the next quarterly report NCSoft gets to say; "The month immediately following our take over the number of active characters rose by 789,472. That's a 17% rise in player participation than under the old management. This is proof that the players are happy that we're in charge now and not Cryptic. This looks great for PR, and will be a great selling point next time we talk to any investors, stockholders, or potential clients."
And frankly I'm just not sure how us making a ton of padding characters is going to be "bad" for NCSoft in anyway. They obviously don't care that we're going to 'exploit' this little item. In fact Lighthouse all but came out and suggested that we do so.
Personally I like it the way it is. You want the full 3 million? Ok, but you gotta work for it baby! Too lazy to do that? Well then you get a smaller gift.
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Not only that, but how many people do you think are going to choose now to finally open that second, third or even fourth (see above) account that they always wanted? I know I did.
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007
I'm know it has been said before, but honestly, all this prestige is doing is giving the large supergroups a huge boost, and scrwing the little ones. It's already hard enough to establish a new SG when everyone wants to be in the top ten SGs causet hey got the big cool base... now, with this, what is all the new SGs supposed to go make 25 trial accounts and just spam invite a bunch of throwaway people?
HOnestly, if everyone is doing this crap (except those without the time/friends, or those like me that consider it to be exploitative and cheating), why bother giving the prestige based on members? Why not just give 3 million prestige to all supergroups and be done with it?
EDIT: After reading more of this thread, I realize that what one person said is true. NCSoft is aware that people will "cheat" to get their 3 million prestige, and they don't give a damn. This is just yet another time when I see how people can say that video game EULAs don't hold up in court, because they set rules and regulations and expect us to follow them, and then they pick and choose when and which rules they enforce. NCsoft isn't the only video game company that does it either. I've personally seen cases of SOE and Blizzard both breaking their own EULAs, in my mind meaning I legally don't have to follow their EULA (though I still do, and I still waste my time reporting violations that I know will not be punished). Ask any lawyer, if it's a contract we sign, they sign it too... and if EITHER side breaks the contract, it's null and void.
The grant is stated as being 'per SG member'
Is that "per character" in the S/VG or "per person" (i.e account) in the S/VG?
Or should I say "per member character" or "per member account"
It's for each toon listed on the roster, whether active or inactive, whether 150 toons from 15 accounts, or 150 toon from 150 accounts. If they're on the roster, you get credit for them.
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007
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It's for each toon listed on the roster, whether active or inactive, whether 150 toons from 15 accounts, or 150 toon from 150 accounts. If they're on the roster, you get credit for them.
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I do not mean to pick at or insult you but, is that from a red name and if so, can someone link it please?
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I've had some questions about if a character that hasn't been active for a while but is still listed as in a supergroup, if they will count toward the 20,000 grant. The 20,000 is applied for each member in the supergroup, regardless of their activity or status. If they show on the roster, they will be included in the 20,000 per member grant on the 10th.
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From page 12 of this thread.
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007
Unlike some MMOs the SG/VG database in City of Heroes/Villains only tracks the toon's name in the roster and doesn't track the account tied to it. This has been one of the reasons they haven't changed the membership limit to 75 (or now 150) accounts rather than characters. This also means that any prestige awards (like this one shot bonus or the first 15 members one) are based on character and not account, meaning people can pad their own groups and either through the help of a friend or a second account could feasibly have a 1 account (or 1 player) group with only their own characters when all is said and done.
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I've had some questions about if a character that hasn't been active for a while but is still listed as in a supergroup, if they will count toward the 20,000 grant. The 20,000 is applied for each member in the supergroup, regardless of their activity or status. If they show on the roster, they will be included in the 20,000 per member grant on the 10th.
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From page 12 of this thread.
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Thank you!
will we get debt just cleared? or will we get debt after it clean.
This is a debt free day?
Pretty sure it's just a wipe and not a debt free day. I haven't seen anything to suggest anything more than that.
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Anarchist_Kitten:
I'm know it has been said before, but honestly, all this prestige is doing is giving the large supergroups a huge boost, and scrwing the little ones. It's already hard enough to establish a new SG when everyone wants to be in the top ten SGs causet hey got the big cool base... now, with this, what is all the new SGs supposed to go make 25 trial accounts and just spam invite a bunch of throwaway people?
HOnestly, if everyone is doing this crap (except those without the time/friends, or those like me that consider it to be exploitative and cheating), why bother giving the prestige based on members? Why not just give 3 million prestige to all supergroups and be done with it?
EDIT: After reading more of this thread, I realize that what one person said is true. NCSoft is aware that people will "cheat" to get their 3 million prestige, and they don't give a damn. This is just yet another time when I see how people can say that video game EULAs don't hold up in court, because they set rules and regulations and expect us to follow them, and then they pick and choose when and which rules they enforce. NCsoft isn't the only video game company that does it either. I've personally seen cases of SOE and Blizzard both breaking their own EULAs, in my mind meaning I legally don't have to follow their EULA (though I still do, and I still waste my time reporting violations that I know will not be punished). Ask any lawyer, if it's a contract we sign, they sign it too... and if EITHER side breaks the contract, it's null and void.
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EULA is not a contract, it's not even a verbal/visual recognition. It's a series of pretty words that pretty much give the right-holder the ability to suspend/ban a consumer from it's services.
ALSO, even if a distributer/right-holder brought a EULA violation to court, it would be waste of their time and money. Lawyer fees alone will be at least 3 times what the case is even worth... and none of that money goes into the game like it should be... and that is exactly how the 'powers-that-be' see it.
In the defense of the SGs like mine (The Omega Force #3 on Freedom; WOOT!) where we've had to create branches (Omega Force Legends; Omega Force .Destroyers, etc,) because our members and aspiring active player invites were breaking the seams of each branch before i11; The 150 limit was hit before the second day of issue 11 AND none of them are member's alts. (Due to a strict set of rules we have in place)
Now, we've been around for almost 3 years, I've been in it for 2 and we have had to down grade out plot numerous times due to rent being so high and pres being scarce. The SG economy system is redundant. We've literally been waiting for something like this 3 issues!
If the prestige grant is leaving a sour taste in your mouth, grab a handful of mints from the closest candy dish, because all games have countless features and events that please 50% of its audience; and no amount of griping is going to change that.
Plus there is almost no downside to the prestige grant. The SGs who are exploiting this handout are bad SGs to begin with and will probably not last, and the smaller SGs that can benefit from any help will use it to become greater SGs.
If you think 3,000,000 mil worth the pres is a lot for bigger SGs, it's not... we pay about half a mil a month on our base forcing us to have all our members in SG mode all the time, which makes them poor and incapable of buying enhancements.
This grant will help those who need it, and will only hinder the ones who seek to exploit it... sure they'll get bigger bases... but they'll learn the hard way that a bigger base can lead to the downfall to an SG. Luckily we grabbed ours right before the brink.
~Steiner
Titan Network
(Co-Owner & Lead Mids' Developer)
Looking for an easy PHP COH/V server status script? Check This Out!
According to ParagonWiki, rent is now based on plot size, not an assessment of the items in the base. So I expect that a lot of smaller SGs will do what I'm planning on doing and build a base heavy on resources but still sitting on the smallest plot size -- which doesn't incur any rent.
Just pointing that out. Those of you who have smaller SGs like mine are definitely advised to do what you can on the default plot rather than upgrading. Larger plots are going to get you into trouble unless you have a lot of very active members who don't mind running in SG mode a LOT, as Shayrd said.
Full-Time Virtue Resident and Amazon Princess
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ya i made an sg a few months ago. we dont pay rent, so.. its not just a rumor or w/e..its rly free for default
my sg only getting around 700k..and we're damn excited lol.. we arnt worried about being biggest baddest cool bean sg. .. we just want a med. bay and more tp's. this amounts perfect for us
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According to ParagonWiki, rent is now based on plot size, not an assessment of the items in the base. So I expect that a lot of smaller SGs will do what I'm planning on doing and build a base heavy on resources but still sitting on the smallest plot size -- which doesn't incur any rent.
Just pointing that out. Those of you who have smaller SGs like mine are definitely advised to do what you can on the default plot rather than upgrading. Larger plots are going to get you into trouble unless you have a lot of very active members who don't mind running in SG mode a LOT, as Shayrd said.
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Yeah, a few issues ago, if you had a 3mil value base and 5 million unspent, your total net worth was 8 million so you were paying prestige based on being a 8million value base. Every month. Now, they've changed it so only the vaule of plot matters to rent.
The way they are doing it now is still making the big SGs richer and the smaller SGs are going to fall because who wants to be a member of a SG with ONE teleporter, when they can be a member of an SG with a teleporter to every zone?
personally I love this prestige grant. The idea that its only helping large sg's is false. We have a few small sg's that have about 15 people in them with about 5 alts a piece more or less, we maxed out our small plot a while ago and have been trying to save up for a while now to get that next plot. WHen they increased the cap and announced the prestige grant a couple of us went to work padding so we could max it out. We will have more than enough to not just upgrade the plot but finish getting that last teleporter and an extra craft room. 20k a month isn't that bad if you have a moderatly active sg.
if someone plays it right and actually goes through the effort smaller SG's will make out better with this grant than larger ones. A small sg that pads to the 150 max can get quite a good head start with 3 mil. Its not a teleporter to every zone but its a teleporter to the major ones plus a med bay, craft room, and the power and control to run it. not bad to start out with.
Uh, no.
The small ones will remain because the point of having a supergroup is not always "just to be able to teleport" somewhere. Sometimes, it's because *you like the people you play with*. Or, you have common interests. Or, you've got a one-person SG to keep your base-building skills honed.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
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This whole Debt Badge thing disturbs me. I try to avoid getting debt but some yahoos play all the time like debt doesnt matter. Why do you have to encourage this behavior?
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Why does it matter to you if I want to have debt to get a badge?
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Because it rewards Sloth, Stupidity and Poor Tactics. Nuff Said?
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I would also like to say that to some, finding new and interesting ways to get killed, or seeing just how large of a +5 mob one can take, can be a whole lotta fun. Let people have their fun!
Topher Wade lvl 50 Claws/Regen
The Crimson Heroes Society SG
Chaos Faction VG
Official Naturalized Citizen of Justice since 2007