I can solo Trials and TFs in less then 30 mins
By
anarchicgorilla,
Posted on: 2007-02-16 13:05 in The Market and Inventions
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actually they were both necro/dark I believe. Auto hit AoE debuffs, AoE heals, and an extra pet with AoE debuffs and heals and all the pets deal less resisted damage (nightwidow owned them tho). Of course they both utilized Arachnos Heavies, but neither had a Shivan. MMs talk about soloing AVs all the time in their threads, with and without shivans, nukes, or any other temp powers.
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Heavies are even stronger then Shivans... in fact a Heavy could probably solo an Arch Villain.
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If it didn't get knocked down all the time 
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Yeah they need support of course but they are EXTREMELY powerful but they are extremely hard to get.
RV AVs are more powerful than normal AVs. They are built to be zone events. It doesnt change the fact that very few MMs would ever surprise me in their wupp arseness.
There is an easy way to curb inflation. Make the Auction House bid only, without a minimum bid, require all transactions on bids occur thru the Auction House (to place an Item up for bid it must be handed over and winning bids must ay the Auction House) and link bidding and selling to global handles. Inflation requires setting an artificially high cost. Supply and demand means that any market will eventually become flooded reducing the value of the goods. The only way that people can become dependant upon outside agents for in-game items is if they allow it to happen. Unfortunately, many people fail to utilize the power at there command to achieve their desires and simultaneously fall to the demands of greed. Ultimus can do much mor than I have a desire to, but that doesnt mean I, in any way ,shape, or form require IOs or recipes. I have yet to be required to be HO slotted on any of my 6 lvl 47+ toons in any PvE or PvP situation.
Ultimately we have to take responsibility for ourselves and stop worrying about who has more than we do. Someone will always have more. Someone will always have less. It is not what you have, it is what you make of it. (This comes from over 30 years of RL experience of poverty. If I could hande being homeless in my youth, I can handle not having any ub3rl337l007.)
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RV AVs are more powerful than normal AVs. They are built to be zone events. It doesnt change the fact that very few MMs would ever surprise me in their wupp arseness.
There is an easy way to curb inflation. Make the Auction House bid only, without a minimum bid, require all transactions on bids occur thru the Auction House (to place an Item up for bid it must be handed over and winning bids must ay the Auction House) and link bidding and selling to global handles. Inflation requires setting an artificially high cost. Supply and demand means that any market will eventually become flooded reducing the value of the goods. The only way that people can become dependant upon outside agents for in-game items is if they allow it to happen. Unfortunately, many people fail to utilize the power at there command to achieve their desires and simultaneously fall to the demands of greed. Ultimus can do much mor than I have a desire to, but that doesnt mean I, in any way ,shape, or form require IOs or recipes. I have yet to be required to be HO slotted on any of my 6 lvl 47+ toons in any PvE or PvP situation.
Ultimately we have to take responsibility for ourselves and stop worrying about who has more than we do. Someone will always have more. Someone will always have less. It is not what you have, it is what you make of it. (This comes from over 30 years of RL experience of poverty. If I could hande being homeless in my youth, I can handle not having any ub3rl337l007.)
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*standing ovation*
I don't see any problem, 1% can solo with a shivan, 99% can't or don't. Just because someone is so good in CoV that he has figured out how to solo with a Shivan, does not mean the average Joe or anybody, more than a hand full could do the same.
Fate is what you make.
But Rizac, there are people who could play pinball for hours on a quarter, therefore pinball companies raised the cost to 20$ per play... oh wait no they didn't.
Obviously some TF's are going to have to have thier reward adjusted. I've done TF's in 15 minutes. This should likely be determined by data mining. If im the only one on my server doing tf's in 15 minutes, then it's probably not neccessary to do anything. If 10% of the population are farming stuff in that way, then something needs to change.
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Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
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Bloody Bay is empty most of the time. So I'll just walk from meteor to meteor instead of superspeeding, big deal. What difference does that make? 30 minutes instead of 15?
I'd prefer the acquisition method be kept as-is, but the power limited to one charge.
Villainside I don't have über power builds, and getting a shivan has been the only way for me to get past EBs solo.
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OK, then disable travel powers AND add frequent Shivan ambushes towards the carriers of the meteorites. Also suppress all stealth powers.
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And then, the Langoliers come.
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I think by using the title "I" and in your posts and in the thread refering to your accomlishments and server, not focusing on the posible flaw this thread has gotten a bit off track.
Most of the thread is about you and your shivans over 1/2 of your replies are about your accomplishments about the shivans or other things not relating to the "concern".
If from pool C and D a rare drop might ("might" was Brains term) occure then you "might" be able to complete it in 30 minutes and you might get your rare drop.. but then again you might not, you could solo this for 2 hours and not get your drop then again you might.
If you have a team of 8 and tell them what drop you need it may only take you one run of 2hrs-2.5 hrs to get that drop, if each player that completes the tf or trial gets a drop.. maybe 7 can get it done in that time and you can have an alt at the door from a seperate account, giving you 6 chances to trade and 2 chances for that drop. I think much of this thread is nothing to worry about till Brain changes from his "might" to "does"...
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If defeating Archvillains always dropped a Rare, then someone would pull the old "farming AV" trick and suddenly that Rare is more common than Generic Damage Enhancements
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I would like to give Brain more credit than not to apply this to TF's and Trials too. He is the Brain after all
I stand behind Ultimus 100% in the things he has accomplished in the world of CoH/V. Everyone has their own views and opinions towards all this. Ultimus to me in "my own opinion", is like an in game QA/QC. Sure he finds things that are considered "wrong" with the game but, he is also posting his feedback. Yes, he could just PM a redname of his findings and keep it a secret but, instead likes to share it with the community and I'm fine with that. As for the IO system coming up and him posting this discussion...How is this any different here than if it were being done on test? If inventions were in test right now and Ultimus found this out and posted, what is the difference? Hes helping the devs by pointing out a "loop hole" of "flaw" in the system that would prevent others from "farming" these supposed "rare drops".
As for Ultimus...."Keep on keepin' on!!!" 
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Properly done ambushes can be very dangerous. And a proper -travel penalty WILL suppress ALL travel enahncement, even the speed in swift.
Also its not the same to have ambushes that spawn on top of you and are locked down on you, than to have shivans jump for a boo, as these show up before they actually aggro and will forget you if you run away. An ambush will follow you until you stop, and if you didn't deal with 3 ambushes, once you get to the next metheorite they will catch up.
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I'm going to disagree with this suggestion (suppress travel, add ambushes).
You're trying to inconvenience the guy who solos AVs with Shivans. If the process of getting Shivans is made hard enough to actually inconvenience that level of player, getting Shivans will be very very hard for average players.
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I'm not trying to inconvenience the guy who solos AVs with shivans. The point is to make the shivan acquisition an actual risk, they are extremely powerful and as they stand now they hold no risk at all to aquire.
You either make their acquisition HARD, or you nerf them to the original level of power (back at the start of CoV they were minions summoned, not Elite Bosses"
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Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot more straightforward just to reduce the Shivan pet's actual abilities?
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As I mentioned, the thing is so easy to get you may as well make it a 30 second minion summon, then even if it took 25 seconds to acquire only role players would want to get it and use them in Pocket D, and then they would complain that a role play only thing forces them into the posibility of combat AND a PvP zone.
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The meteor run is likely easy on purpose, because it's catering to CoX newbies. As well it should. The main problem I'm seeing is the disproportionate reward for such an easy task - five elite bosses. I know some people disagree, but I really wouldn't be sad if they got downgraded to mere bosses, simply because dropping a Shivan makes a mockery of any task in the game.
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QFT but I wouldn't say makes a mockery of any task, but certainly makes some otherwise very awkward tasks possible. Friend with a 46 human only PB had my 28 troller SKd on the tyrant mission. Tyrant spawns in as a 50 EB (as he does, it being his minimum level). Could we have done it without a shivan ? Probably not, as basically we'd have needed to kill him before light form dropped and I don't think we could have done enough damage in time.
I would suggest it's brought in line with some of the other pets and reduced to 3 uses if it's going to be changed. Making the task to get it harder will simply disadvantage casual players and sub optimal builds who are more likely to need the shivans to accomplish stuff that the l337 brigade can do without them.
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom and many others including 8 other 50s
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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I do think no travel powers may make things a bit harder though, there is a HUGE difference between super speeding from one point to the next and walking it, time wise.
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Probably does but I already have characters who have no Travel Powers in BB because I decided to get the later.
So I'm already walking and it doesn't take that long (sure Super Speed would be quicker but it's still not bad).
Hey Frozen.. BTW 60 miles nort of you in Lafayette
I did not try to imply that his feedback in the community was a bad thing but much like your post and my own response it is not about his findings/concern. The concern about farming rare drops has been lost in most of this thread and a simple change of words explaining this finding may have helped, thats all, nothing more. I tried to show where he may be more skilled at finding flaws than reporting them, by refraining from a few simple words less debate about his skill, boasting or actual intensions and more about the concern might happen in the thread. Its not an insult, I am only trying to help Ultimus as you feal he has helped the community.
Ultimus and what he does or has done.. is great, really! I will never be able to do what he does I don't make builds for that, even if I did I might not be able to.
As for the concern I believe that sometimes it will be faster and sometimes it will be frustrating possibly farming a TF/trial for hours, depending on the rate drop in pool C and D this may or may not help. The "Brain" tried to this point is using the term "might". I quoted the Brain only trying to show that he the "Brain" was understanding of a farming situation and openly expressed that he was trying to avoid that. Shivans as pointed out have also been discussed before. That being said farming may become very common but it may have no direct impact on rare items becoming common. This may be a loop hole or flaw it is not a loop hole or flaw yet. As you pointed out Test server will help decide that. One last time, "Brain" stated that he was trying to avoid a situation that would make rares becomming commons, Devs know about Shivans.
Again about the "concern" I don't think it is any concern atm although it could happen. I believe with the words from the "Brain" and the understanding about the Shivans shows the Devs understand this. Rares becomming common are going to be avoided at the best of the Devs ability as implied. Loop holes etc. sure they will always be found but I still believe the chances of a team of 8 finding a rare or more rares in 1 run is the greater chance, even for overall time involved. It may not drop to you but teaming may = more drops per 2 hour period, which may = more items for all players to complete formulas, which may = more items for auction etc. etc. which may be better for the community. Just an opinion.
As for Ultimus sure keep on keepin on... I have nothing against his playing or sharing, I did not think I said that. I thought he could explaint things in a less irritating manner for some of the community (not me I don't mind one bit) which may = more time on subject. Out of all the "good for you posts" I think you miss read mine.. or as normal I did not explain very well the first time through (it has taken several times before)
does it really matter if a couple jackasses here and there can solo TF's? on my lvl 38 stalker it took me almost a half an hour to kill a Warden last week *with* a shivan. actually it was with two shivans since the Warden killed the first one
I don't see the point in nerfing the entire playerbase just because one or two powergamers are out there farming the hell out of the system. for someone like me who solo's alot, shivans are a godsend when I don't feel like trying to rally a team together so I can get past the fifth EB in a particular story arc (and there are way too many EB's in CoV arcs, by the way)
look ... be realistic, this is what happens when you incorporate l3wt into a previously lootless game. people *will* find ways to farm it
_Castle_ has stated that they are aware of how very power shivans are and that they have no plans to nerf them. Make of that what you will.
But it's MY sadistic mechanical monster and I'm here to make sure it knows it. - Girl Genius
List of Invention Guides
This game's battle is not particularly complex. Most powers in this game aren't very dynamic, either - you toggle or click them, and they do their thing. Little strategy or tactics is involved. If one primary/secondary slotted a certain way(with specific temp powers) can perform a task, another player with the same primary/secondary(using similar tactics) can accomplish the same with equal ease.
The uber-est loot our game currently provides through average play(+3 SOs) is too common to put re-balancing our overperforming primary/secondaries high on 'The List.' Risk/reward is broken, but because rewards are so common, not terribly so. Inventions, if rare enough, may more quickly draw attention to our over-optimal powersets(both from our players and the devs).
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I don't see the point in nerfing the entire playerbase just because one or two powergamers are out there farming the hell out of the system.
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I see a few reasonable benefits to changing builds ideally equipped for farming before rare loot is added.
The devs balance the game around outliers. Would you prefer the devs balance drops around the optimal performance of farmers? Where does that leave the average player? At Wentworth's - lining farmers' pockets. Or rolling their own farming alt. Or pulling out their credit cards at PimpMyOrc.com. Or without IOs.
Or(should the devs balance around the performance of the 'average' player), with a market absolutely
flooded with 'rare' loot.
Draw in the outliers, and loot stays rare and accessible to all players equally. Leave certain primary/secondaries able to gather loot faster than most, and it's a tacit nerf to the majority of the playerbase.
I've recently discovered that the key to the RV AVs is Vengeance. I saw GW, Mako and Scirocco beaten down by a team of 4... and one of them was dead the whole time (target for vengeance).
Why not freeze Shivan's level at whatever level Warburg is when you go in...25 is it? I haven't been there in decades.
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Why not freeze Shivan's level at whatever level Warburg is when you go in...25 is it? I haven't been there in decades.
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They did that to nerf them, then undid it because it made them just about useless
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This game's battle is not particularly complex. Most powers in this game aren't very dynamic, either - you toggle or click them, and they do their thing. Little strategy or tactics is involved. If one primary/secondary slotted a certain way(with specific temp powers) can perform a task, another player with the same primary/secondary(using similar tactics) can accomplish the same with equal ease.
The uber-est loot our game currently provides through average play(+3 SOs) is too common to put re-balancing our overperforming primary/secondaries high on 'The List.' Risk/reward is broken, but because rewards are so common, not terribly so. Inventions, if rare enough, may more quickly draw attention to our over-optimal powersets(both from our players and the devs).
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I don't see the point in nerfing the entire playerbase just because one or two powergamers are out there farming the hell out of the system.
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I see a few reasonable benefits to changing builds ideally equipped for farming before rare loot is added.
The devs balance the game around outliers. Would you prefer the devs balance drops around the optimal performance of farmers? Where does that leave the average player? At Wentworth's - lining farmers' pockets. Or rolling their own farming alt. Or pulling out their credit cards at PimpMyOrc.com. Or without IOs.
Or(should the devs balance around the performance of the 'average' player), with a market absolutely
flooded with 'rare' loot.
Draw in the outliers, and loot stays rare and accessible to all players equally. Leave certain primary/secondaries able to gather loot faster than most, and it's a tacit nerf to the majority of the playerbase.
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Thing is, fire/fire isn't a particularly uber build. It's nifty, but there are far better brute builds. Nerfing fire/fire won't do much good to prevent this kind of thing, that's Ultimus' point.
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
So you have a brute of an unkown primary / secondary and you SAY you can solo it in less than 30 minutes.
will you complain as much if your build gets nerfed to the point that you no longer can solo missions let alone TFs?
If the median player is able to complete a TF with difficulty, in a reasonable amount of time we should expect the devs to feel it's performing "as intended".
Statistically there are always outliers. This includes people such as you claim to be and people who have never completed a TF or respec (and yes, they do exist).
If you are such an excellent player, you have a few options to make the game more challenging. I suggest you role a man build, slide that difficulty bar all the way up and enjoy a challenging game. This will reduce the time you need to take out of your day crowing about how overpowered you are. It will also help balance your particular abilities with the median players.
Enjoy tough guy!
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Thing is, fire/fire isn't a particularly uber build. It's nifty, but there are far better brute builds. Nerfing fire/fire won't do much good to prevent this kind of thing, that's Ultimus' point.
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By definition, the process of changing every build that can solo AVs(or the temp powers involved) would prevent soloing AVs, if a sufficient adjustment is made.
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Thing is, fire/fire isn't a particularly uber build. It's nifty, but there are far better brute builds. Nerfing fire/fire won't do much good to prevent this kind of thing, that's Ultimus' point.
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By definition, the process of changing every build that can solo AVs(or the temp powers involved) would prevent soloing AVs, if a sufficient adjustment is made.
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Yeah, but that's a lot more work in fixes than enforcing rarity on recipes by limiting drop rates of TFs and Trials.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
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So you have a brute of an unkown primary / secondary and you SAY you can solo it in less than 30 minutes.
will you complain as much if your build gets nerfed to the point that you no longer can solo missions let alone TFs?
If the median player is able to complete a TF with difficulty, in a reasonable amount of time we should expect the devs to feel it's performing "as intended".
Statistically there are always outliers. This includes people such as you claim to be and people who have never completed a TF or respec (and yes, they do exist).
If you are such an excellent player, you have a few options to make the game more challenging. I suggest you role a man build, slide that difficulty bar all the way up and enjoy a challenging game. This will reduce the time you need to take out of your day crowing about how overpowered you are. It will also help balance your particular abilities with the median players.
Enjoy tough guy!
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Its Fire/Fire... go look at my Brute thread that is like 30 pages long.
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Thing is, fire/fire isn't a particularly uber build. It's nifty, but there are far better brute builds. Nerfing fire/fire won't do much good to prevent this kind of thing, that's Ultimus' point.
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By definition, the process of changing every build that can solo AVs(or the temp powers involved) would prevent soloing AVs, if a sufficient adjustment is made.
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Yeah, but that's a lot more work in fixes than enforcing rarity on recipes by limiting drop rates of TFs and Trials.
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Or just nerfing shivans. I'd waiger what Ultimus does can be done with many brute and scrapper combos at least. He's done it with at least one tank build and thinks he could do it with his illusion controller. It's much easier to limit a rare drop to one per TF per day (NOT to one TF a day) or nerf shivans to bosses. Maybe 10 boss summons instead of 5 EB summons or something...
@Deadedge and @Dead Edge
Peace through power! Freedom is slavery!
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a yo-yo
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actually they were both necro/dark I believe. Auto hit AoE debuffs, AoE heals, and an extra pet with AoE debuffs and heals and all the pets deal less resisted damage (nightwidow owned them tho). Of course they both utilized Arachnos Heavies, but neither had a Shivan. MMs talk about soloing AVs all the time in their threads, with and without shivans, nukes, or any other temp powers.
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Heavies are even stronger then Shivans... in fact a Heavy could probably solo an Arch Villain.
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If it didn't get knocked down all the time
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast