I can solo Trials and TFs in less then 30 mins
By
anarchicgorilla,
Posted on: 2007-02-16 13:05 in The Market and Inventions
<QR>
.... but.. I think the actual purpose of this post can be found here:
[ QUOTE ]
I hate to say it but this means we need to either buff Arch Villains where they cannot be soloed anymore or limit Shivans/Nukes to PVP zones.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a very nice example of inventing a problem so that you can argue for your desired goal. In this case: limiting PvP temp powers to PvP zones.
I don't think Ultimos is in the boat of people that want "PvP rewards to stick in PvP environments"
However, he does bring something interesting in this thread: aquiring the shivans is too easy due to the low popularity of the zone, the nukes are harder to get though.
I think the aim should be to make acquisition of the nukes harder, and the perfect way that pops in my head is:
Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
Making the thing one single charge also should be in line, nukes are each a single charge and require you to spend much more time, between the reasons precisely because you have to walk the scientists, almost forcing you out of travel powers.
[ QUOTE ]
Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bloody Bay is empty most of the time. So I'll just walk from meteor to meteor instead of superspeeding, big deal. What difference does that make? 30 minutes instead of 15?
I'd prefer the acquisition method be kept as-is, but the power limited to one charge.
Villainside I don't have über power builds, and getting a shivan has been the only way for me to get past EBs solo.
www.SaveCOH.com: Calls to Action and Events Calendar
This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
Thanks to @EnsonsDeath for the GVE code that made me VIP again!
[ QUOTE ]
Solo the Shadow Shard TFs in under 30 minutes... then you'll have MY respect.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heck solo Positron in 30 minutes and I'll have your children.
[ QUOTE ]
Solo the Shadow Shard TFs in under 30 minutes... then you'll have MY respect.
[/ QUOTE ]
Particularly the missions that require 4 simultaneous disarms ... (admittedly not as many as claim they do), a few more of those would kill soloing TFs.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Solo the Shadow Shard TFs in under 30 minutes... then you'll have MY respect.
[/ QUOTE ]
Particularly the missions that require 4 simultaneous disarms ... (admittedly not as many as claim they do), a few more of those would kill soloing TFs.
[/ QUOTE ]
They can take every one of my simo click story arc missions and throw into TFs/trials. I promise I won't mind.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bloody Bay is empty most of the time. So I'll just walk from meteor to meteor instead of superspeeding, big deal. What difference does that make? 30 minutes instead of 15?
I'd prefer the acquisition method be kept as-is, but the power limited to one charge.
Villainside I don't have über power builds, and getting a shivan has been the only way for me to get past EBs solo.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, then disable travel powers AND add frequent Shivan ambushes towards the carriers of the meteorites. Also suppress all stealth powers.
I do think no travel powers may make things a bit harder though, there is a HUGE difference between super speeding from one point to the next and walking it, time wise.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bloody Bay is empty most of the time. So I'll just walk from meteor to meteor instead of superspeeding, big deal. What difference does that make? 30 minutes instead of 15?
I'd prefer the acquisition method be kept as-is, but the power limited to one charge.
Villainside I don't have über power builds, and getting a shivan has been the only way for me to get past EBs solo.
[/ QUOTE ]
OK, then disable travel powers AND add frequent Shivan ambushes towards the carriers of the meteorites. Also suppress all stealth powers.
I do think no travel powers may make things a bit harder though, there is a HUGE difference between super speeding from one point to the next and walking it, time wise.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em looks sheepish.
Uh, Starsman, hun, hate to break it to you but I have had characters who lacked a travel power in BB. It was a rather sad build for my Fire/Fire brute and I was finding myself at the time trudging through BB. Other then the added time of sprinting from meteor to meteor it is no different then right now. And that would seem to be, if the change was done, not trying to make risk = reward, but aggrivation = reward. Are we annoyed enough trying to get a shivan shard for how good it is? Not how I like to think of things, and not really a good way to think about balance. And no, I am NOT saying that is how it is done now. 
=. .=
You skipped the part about the ambushes, which would be a true "risk" if you cant run away from them with a travel power (I include sprint as a disabled travel power btw, so you would not be able to outrun the ambushes)
[ QUOTE ]
You skipped the part about the ambushes, which would be a true "risk" if you cant run away from them with a travel power (I include sprint as a disabled travel power btw, so you would not be able to outrun the ambushes)
[/ QUOTE ]
Slotted swift. And again, it's still not really risk, just agrivation. Avoiding the meteor ambushes, and random shivans leaping from the sewars going 'boo' was exceedingly easy for me. Sprint was unslotted, and swift at the time had just a flight speed in it. I honestly don't see this as a solution for the 'Shivan problem'. A better solution is to just reduce the uses to one or two. If you only have a one or two shot use of the shard it will balance out in the 'prep' time, even though it's really back to agrivation not risk. People who use shards all the time to solo EBs or Avs (gives Ultimus a sideways look) will find temselves spending more time getting the shards then doing the missions. For the rest of us who use them only now and then anyways it really wont trouble.
=. .=
Properly done ambushes can be very dangerous. And a proper -travel penalty WILL suppress ALL travel enahncement, even the speed in swift.
Also its not the same to have ambushes that spawn on top of you and are locked down on you, than to have shivans jump for a boo, as these show up before they actually aggro and will forget you if you run away. An ambush will follow you until you stop, and if you didn't deal with 3 ambushes, once you get to the next metheorite they will catch up.
[ QUOTE ]
People who use shards all the time to solo EBs or Avs (gives Ultimus a sideways look) will find temselves spending more time getting the shards then doing the missions. For the rest of us who use them only now and then anyways it really wont trouble.
[/ QUOTE ]
No offense but the way this is phrased it makes it sound as a "nerf his experience not mine"
[ QUOTE ]
Properly done ambushes can be very dangerous. And a proper -travel penalty WILL suppress ALL travel enahncement, even the speed in swift.
Also its not the same to have ambushes that spawn on top of you and are locked down on you, than to have shivans jump for a boo, as these show up before they actually aggro and will forget you if you run away. An ambush will follow you until you stop, and if you didn't deal with 3 ambushes, once you get to the next metheorite they will catch up.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to disagree with this suggestion (suppress travel, add ambushes).
You're trying to inconvenience the guy who solos AVs with Shivans. If the process of getting Shivans is made hard enough to actually inconvenience that level of player, getting Shivans will be very very hard for average players.
Wouldn't it be a heck of a lot more straightforward just to reduce the Shivan pet's actual abilities?
[ QUOTE ]
Disable travel powers while carrying meteorite samples.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, that's good ... it's wonderful. It means my Swift+Sprint+Hurdle+CombatJump characters will absolutely PWN at that mission.
Seriously. Noone will be able to keep up, unless they are also one of that very specific and rare breed of "Un-Travel Power" character.
[ QUOTE ]
Properly done ambushes can be very dangerous. And a proper -travel penalty WILL suppress ALL travel enahncement, even the speed in swift.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, no.
Not unless you're taling about a SLOW effect - which will have non-swift-ers getting outright screwed, chugging along at stupidly slow speeds, less than non-sprint walking!
Actually Pax, you seem to have just described 90% of pvp builds. Swift + Hurdle + Combat Jumping is a standard among PvP FotM builds. (left out sprint since everyone has it and the original suppression suggestion was ammended to include suppression of sprint)
I would not oppose turning off travels in PvP zones, personally (possible nerf to jousting/kiting), but it will never fly (excuse the pun). The idea to limit Shivans to one use items is much better. Now the uber solo build has to spend that extra ten minutes of setup every time he wants a shivan. Getting this past low RSF desired builds is a different matter.
The simple fact is, Ultimus will find a way to do what he does regardless of how the devs try to prevent it. The act of the devs tring to prevent it, is actually possibly likely increase his joy, or at least the joy of those who live to break the system.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Properly done ambushes can be very dangerous. And a proper -travel penalty WILL suppress ALL travel enahncement, even the speed in swift.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh, no.
Not unless you're taling about a SLOW effect - which will have non-swift-ers getting outright screwed, chugging along at stupidly slow speeds, less than non-sprint walking!
[/ QUOTE ]
Which is what I thought. Add in the extra spice of say, Stalkers, or just PvP in general and things just would not be fun. The only people who would even try to get a shard would be teh elite players. Casual gamer? Yeah, don't even bother trying to get a shard.
[ QUOTE ]
No offense but the way this is phrased it makes it sound as a "nerf his experience not mine"
[/ QUOTE ]
I hadn't thought of it that way, but I guess I am. But to be fair, the OP is kinda asking for that. =>.<= Also, it is a far cry better then making getting the shard nigh-impossable. Normally I really like your ideas Starsman, but the travel-power supression one isn't that well thought out or good, in my oppinion. Mind you, I don't think mine is any good either, not that it is really mine. Other people tossed it out long ago. >.>
=. .=
Are you sure he's not just trying to flag a fairly significant point of exploit? Fire/Fire isn't exactly the most optimal powerset combination in terms of sheer min/max crunch. It's always seemed like his point was that anybody could be doing this - and probably are. Well, and bragging too, although I've seen less of that once it became clear that it's the Shivan doing most of the work.
But in this particular case, Ultimus presents it explicitly as a warning about a possible hole in the recipie system. And he's compeltely right: if anybody can just pick up a Shivan and swiftly solo their TF of choice, any concept of recipie rarity is going to go out the window, because people will farm them.
Warburg nukes are so time-intensive to get, even without player interference, I don't think they really count. I estimate around 20-30 minutes to get the chem and bio nukes for a seasoned player, plus time spent shooing away stalkers. But in Bloody Bay, so long as you stay away from the flight path between hero and villain bases, you never ever see a hostile player who's not themselves on a Shivan run or badge hunting.
The meteor run is likely easy on purpose, because it's catering to CoX newbies. As well it should. The main problem I'm seeing is the disproportionate reward for such an easy task - five elite bosses. I know some people disagree, but I really wouldn't be sad if they got downgraded to mere bosses, simply because dropping a Shivan makes a mockery of any task in the game.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure he's not just trying to flag a fairly significant point of exploit? Fire/Fire isn't exactly the most optimal powerset combination in terms of sheer min/max crunch. It's always seemed like his point was that anybody could be doing this - and probably are. Well, and bragging too, although I've seen less of that once it became clear that it's the Shivan doing most of the work.
But in this particular case, Ultimus presents it explicitly as a warning about a possible hole in the recipie system. And he's compeltely right: if anybody can just pick up a Shivan and swiftly solo their TF of choice, any concept of recipie rarity is going to go out the window, because people will farm them.
Warburg nukes are so time-intensive to get, even without player interference, I don't think they really count. I estimate around 20-30 minutes to get the chem and bio nukes for a seasoned player, plus time spent shooing away stalkers. But in Bloody Bay, so long as you stay away from the flight path between hero and villain bases, you never ever see a hostile player who's not themselves on a Shivan run or badge hunting.
The meteor run is likely easy on purpose, because it's catering to CoX newbies. As well it should. The main problem I'm seeing is the disproportionate reward for such an easy task - five elite bosses. I know some people disagree, but I really wouldn't be sad if they got downgraded to mere bosses, simply because dropping a Shivan makes a mockery of any task in the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
At least one person understands 
The problem, Ultimus, is that NOT ANYBODY CAN DO THIS. For example: Very few defenders would be capable. Heck, very few defenders are capable of even obtaining the Shivans without support.
It is not just your reliance upon the Shivan that allows your actions. You also utilize a full tray of inspirations. This offsets the damage mitigation your build sacrifices for higher damage, especially if you do so with a built up fury bar. Are we supposed to welcome a nerf of inspirations, fury, and Shivans to keep you in check. I think that would be required at minimum. The only other option would be to buff the AVs which are already more than some 8 man teams can take. (Granted, those teams didnt build for the AV, but not every layer out there knows to do so) How many HO/SHOES do you have slotted?
You say you have done this in the past with a stone/ss tank. I would imagine you utilize rage and full tray of damage inspitations since that build has the best defense in the game.
Next you claim to be working on doing surprising things with a Mastermind. There is very little that anyone could do in PvE with a mastermind that would surprise me. I have witnessed a team of 2 MMs defeat a mob of 3 AVs in Recluse Victory. Properly built, an MM can unleash more pain than any other AT. That is the reason MMs have the least amount of HP in the game.
I do not consider what you do to be an exploit. You are not utilizing any bug in the system that I am aware of. You are simply min/maxing and using tactics.
Many other players feel they need the Shivans to even compete, especially dominators & stalkers wishing to join an RSF and defenders trying to solo.
That you, and others, can rapidly achieve a recipe reward intended for a dedicated team just means that the market for those rewards will drop faster, allowing the less capable player of affordably purchasing them.I humbly offer to hold your cape and hand you a spade while you farm away. Your skill and dedication are beyond me, but your supply will eventually overload the demand, at which point my 5 inf is ready willing and capable.
[ QUOTE ]
...I have witnessed a team of 2 MMs defeat a mob of 3 AVs in Recluse Victory. Properly built, an MM can unleash more pain than any other AT. That is the reason MMs have the least amount of HP in the game...
[/ QUOTE ]
O.O What powersets? I mean I just came from fighting the LR and all his buddies adn it took 20 people and shivans. I would like to know how 2 MMs could take out 3 AVs.
Anyway, back on topic. I really don't think that shivans or nukes should be nerfed. I have been on AV team and the only reason an 8 person tema was able to get the AV killed was through using a shivans. Please do nerf shivnas for the very small mijority that the OP represents. If anything limit the recipe reward to once a day.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...I have witnessed a team of 2 MMs defeat a mob of 3 AVs in Recluse Victory. Properly built, an MM can unleash more pain than any other AT. That is the reason MMs have the least amount of HP in the game...
[/ QUOTE ]
O.O What powersets? I mean I just came from fighting the LR and all his buddies adn it took 20 people and shivans. I would like to know how 2 MMs could take out 3 AVs.
[/ QUOTE ]
/Poison is the single-target debuff. So two well-slotted /Poisons, or a /Poison and a /Dark, could probably debuff an AV or two into "mewling puppy" status. Especially if they've done the LRSF a lot of times, and have more SHOES than Imelda Marcos' closet ever held ...
actually they were both necro/dark I believe. Auto hit AoE debuffs, AoE heals, and an extra pet with AoE debuffs and heals and all the pets deal less resisted damage (nightwidow owned them tho). Of course they both utilized Arachnos Heavies, but neither had a Shivan. MMs talk about soloing AVs all the time in their threads, with and without shivans, nukes, or any other temp powers.
[ QUOTE ]
That you, and others, can rapidly achieve a recipe reward intended for a dedicated team just means that the market for those rewards will drop faster, allowing the less capable player of affordably purchasing them.I humbly offer to hold your cape and hand you a spade while you farm away. Your skill and dedication are beyond me, but your supply will eventually overload the demand, at which point my 5 inf is ready willing and capable.
[/ QUOTE ]
His point, as he keeps restating, is that if the Developers want to maintain rarity, then they'll have to fix how often a trial, task force, etc, can reward a recipe. You might not care whether or not "rare" becomes common, because it benefits you when they show up for sale en masse, especially the rarer ones that you want, but the Developers probably do.
There are Trials and Task Forces easier and shorter than others (especially the Villain Respec) and without limitation you'll see plenty of overseas based "gold farming" websites springing up, and the attempt at a limited economy go down in a flaming wreck.
I hate to bring up SWG since it's like the MMO version of bringing up Hitler, but farming originated inflation (which is what will happen when farmers burn up the hours flooding the market with available recipes) is catastrophic to an MMO economy. Farmers become the primary supplier, so they get to charge whatever they want. Rapidly, you'll need an ever increasing supply of Influence (or real money) in order to buy what you want. It's not AT ALL like what would happen if people are forced to earn them at the same rate, a nice steady curve where people have the same number of recipes (within a given tolerance) where the name of the game will be exchange.
Limiting the number of times you can receive the reward for the same Trial/Taskforce per day is probably THE best solution, in that, it will cripple farming, and will negatively effect just about no one.
Sgt Liberty - 50 Martial Arts / Super Reflexes
Verdigris Eagle - 50 Archery / Energy Manipulation
Stormeye - 50 Storm Summoning / Electric Blast
[ QUOTE ]
actually they were both necro/dark I believe. Auto hit AoE debuffs, AoE heals, and an extra pet with AoE debuffs and heals and all the pets deal less resisted damage (nightwidow owned them tho). Of course they both utilized Arachnos Heavies, but neither had a Shivan. MMs talk about soloing AVs all the time in their threads, with and without shivans, nukes, or any other temp powers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heavies are even stronger then Shivans... in fact a Heavy could probably solo an Arch Villain.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...Also the sewer trial may need attention as you can be level 50 fighting greys throughout on it (barring about 15 seconds while you grab a cannon) and do it comfortably in 30 mins, I did for the badges...
[/ QUOTE ]
No, please don't change this TF. It is insane any other way. It took an hour using this method.
[/ QUOTE ]
I really agree with this. That trial is so out of whack now. There is no way I would do it without exploiting now. The reward for the time investment is just not worth it since they nerfed the kraken babies.
[/ QUOTE ]
They nerfed the kraken babies? or do you mean buffed them? No matter what they either need to keep teh TF as is, or get rid of at least 3, if not all 4, of the monsters. There are plenty of rikti to creat a challange.
[/ QUOTE ]
They nerfed the exp of the Hatched Krakens to nigh worthless. The Sewer Trial used to be the way for people to quickly get from 38ish to 40 once they finished all the contacts and had nothing but endless TFs or street sweeping to get to new contact missions.