I can solo Trials and TFs in less then 30 mins
By
anarchicgorilla,
Posted on: 2007-02-16 13:05 in The Market and Inventions
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There are a dozen builds more adept at soloing super regen scrappers (heroes/avs) than the fire/fire brute, especially when teamed with a shivan.
Anyway, shivans only take 5-8 minutes to get unless someone is actively trying to prevent you from doing so.
Basically any AV that present its challenge via damage delt (clockwork king, a tree thing that shoots invisible thorns, marauder, numina, etc) are NOT going to offer much of a challenge to someone who knows how to pop purple inspirations and drop a shivan.
The AVs that do debuffing, pop tier-9s, have usually unresisted controls, or summon pets (positron/anti-matter, valkyre, malaise (cov version), woodsman) are MUCH more team "friendly". as they require active teamwork (or atleast a wider variety of powers) to efficiently take down.
I feel If the devs are truely afriad of people soloing AVs (and thus most trials), outside of shaking the balance of the non-AV encounters by nerfing fire/fire brutes (ha), or purple inspirations.
They either need rebalance ALL of the taskforce encounters and grant AVs/Monsters tier-9s, fear powers to scatter pets, etc - which would probably be a nightmare
Or, make shivans/nukes team content (e.g. granting the shivan summon for defeating a shivan GM, etc), so people have to decide where they want to put their effort - teaming through a trial, or teaming through some mixed pvp content
A third, comedy option would be to sprinkle a few "click 3 glowies at the same time" objectives through the missions.
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Yeah the ones that pop Tier 9's are fairly hard.
Positron Hero was a pain (And he doesn't appear in regular SF/Trials... exception Recluse) and so was Ghost Widow.
Thorn Tree AV is pretty easy and so are most of the AV's in Sf/Trial.
Shivans don't have - regen ?
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Shivans don't have - regen ?
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Nope.
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Does that 30-40 minutes include the time it took you to get Shivan's and/or nukes? If not, how long do you spend in prep time before each of these solo runs?
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Actually Castle, i have to own up to doing similiar types of things. I soloed every single TF for the task force commander accolade with my Heroes. The missions would spawn small amounts, and be easy to complete. The only trouble i had was with babbage, in which a simple call in bcast took care off. For any really hard AV's i could just have my other account loaded in, or a friend show up to the fight, and the AV's would be reletively easy.
1 Brute can deystroy and AV when his fury bar is all the way up, and he has a buffer on the side. I think nukes and shivans would make it possible. Keep in mind shivans take about 10-15 min prep time. Not all that much.
I think they are overpowered and should be nerfed significantly. but thats just me.
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And Pie.
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Hey. He's good, but pie good?
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Soloing trials in 32 minutes and you don't think that's worth pie?
Your standards are HARSH!
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Well it is, but one doesn't publicly talk about it.
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Does that 30-40 minutes include the time it took you to get Shivan's and/or nukes? If not, how long do you spend in prep time before each of these solo runs?
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Actually Castle, i have to own up to doing similiar types of things. I soloed every single TF for the task force commander accolade with my Heroes. The missions would spawn small amounts, and be easy to complete. The only trouble i had was with babbage, in which a simple call in bcast took care off. For any really hard AV's i could just have my other account loaded in, or a friend show up to the fight, and the AV's would be reletively easy.
1 Brute can deystroy and AV when his fury bar is all the way up, and he has a buffer on the side. I think nukes and shivans would make it possible. Keep in mind shivans take about 10-15 min prep time. Not all that much.
I think they are overpowered and should be nerfed significantly. but thats just me.
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Shivans also have 5 charges.
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Shivans don't have - regen ?
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Nope. I thought, against documentation, that they did, but after more careful testing, they do not seem to have -regen. They only appear to have -regen because they do as much damage as some AVs regenerate, which as far as a player trying to solo an AV is concerned, is basically the same thing.
I tested for this *very* carefully. If it has -regen, its some weird -regen that disappears under my testing conditions.
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And Pie.
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Hey. He's good, but pie good?
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Soloing trials in 32 minutes and you don't think that's worth pie?
Your standards are HARSH!
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Well it is, but one doesn't publicly talk about it.
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Well it should be talked about if certain "Rare" drops are coming from these Trials/StrikeForces (And supposely the best ones). The developers already stated they want to avoid farming and here is one of the easiest loop holes.
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Shivans don't have - regen ?
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Nope. I thought, against documentation, that they did, but after more careful testing, they do not seem to have -regen. They only appear to have -regen because they do as much damage as some AVs regenerate, which as far as a player trying to solo an AV is concerned, is basically the same thing.
I tested for this *very* carefully. If it has -regen, its some weird -regen that disappears under my testing conditions.
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They don't have -Regen you can even check it out at City of Data. Those statistics are straight from developer spreadsheets.
Here's another suggestion to prevent farming:
Limit Trials/TF awards to once per 24 hours similar to how the Recluse Strike Force functions. This would prevent people from farming these solo.
That would do ok, but only if it was once for each specific TF, that way people doing a whole other TF can get a reward from that TF as well. That limits it to however many TFs are there and prevents them from farming "the easy one" which ever that is.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Does that 30-40 minutes include the time it took you to get Shivan's and/or nukes? If not, how long do you spend in prep time before each of these solo runs?
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Actually Castle, i have to own up to doing similiar types of things. I soloed every single TF for the task force commander accolade with my Heroes. The missions would spawn small amounts, and be easy to complete. The only trouble i had was with babbage, in which a simple call in bcast took care off. For any really hard AV's i could just have my other account loaded in, or a friend show up to the fight, and the AV's would be reletively easy.
1 Brute can deystroy and AV when his fury bar is all the way up, and he has a buffer on the side. I think nukes and shivans would make it possible. Keep in mind shivans take about 10-15 min prep time. Not all that much.
I think they are overpowered and should be nerfed significantly. but thats just me.
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Just looking at what you've said here.....
How long does it take you find enough slugs to join your team/get in zone/explain how they will be kicked at the start of the TF?
How long does it take people to show up when Babbage is too much for you? (My 4 or 5 man team recently took about 10 minutes to get enough pickup/broadcast people on him to start dropping his health. They weren't enough, even with about a dozen of them, until somebody dropped to get their 50 rad controller.)
I guess my take on this is "ok, someone found a cheap way to cheat the system". So what? Does Cryptic lose processing power because too many of these are in circulation?
If anything, a few people get them quickly, and then are in the same exact state as they are in now. The rest of the people playing get something for doing some of the more time consuming content, and get to play with crafting. Crafting is fun to give a level 50 something to do.
As for shivans and nukes, I prefer using primary and secondary powers over temp powers. I fail to see why shivans and nukes are good while letting control powers work is bad. At least a control power is from a dom's primary.
Anyway, how about giving some of these AV's AOE confusion powers? If they confused the shivan, sure would be a lot of fun for people like Ultimus. For that matter, how about an ambush of succubi?
There are better ways to counter an abuse of a power than simply nerfing stuff, or trying to boost AVs to where only two or three sets can fight them (ie, the regen boost where you must have a rad toon in order to win). Clearly, use of the shivan combo'd with taunt and lucks is what is making for the ease of soloing. A strong, autohit defense debuff (-def toggle, for example) or something that would screw up the shivan (AOE confusion say) would work just fine to stop this.
For that matter, write some code when if you summoned a shivan the AV summons a mega-shivan to crush the normal shivan would work just fine and dandy.
By the way, I doubt you get a shivan in 10 minutes. First you have to travel to BB, then travel to each site, then do the base, and then return to where you were going to do the SF/AV encounter. It make take you 10 minutes to get the shivan from inside BB, but I think travel time takes up more than that.
I think one way to stop the shivan abuse is to give one shivan instead of 5.
Its too bad you cant pvp as good as you pve, rofl. 
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Shivans don't have - regen ?
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Nope. I thought, against documentation, that they did, but after more careful testing, they do not seem to have -regen. They only appear to have -regen because they do as much damage as some AVs regenerate, which as far as a player trying to solo an AV is concerned, is basically the same thing.
I tested for this *very* carefully. If it has -regen, its some weird -regen that disappears under my testing conditions.
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They don't have -Regen you can even check it out at City of Data. Those statistics are straight from developer spreadsheets.
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I'm aware of the CoD data. I explicitly tested because its so overwhelmingly thought that they do, that it was worth confirming through testing.
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Does that 30-40 minutes include the time it took you to get Shivan's and/or nukes? If not, how long do you spend in prep time before each of these solo runs?
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Actually Castle, i have to own up to doing similiar types of things. I soloed every single TF for the task force commander accolade with my Heroes. The missions would spawn small amounts, and be easy to complete. The only trouble i had was with babbage, in which a simple call in bcast took care off. For any really hard AV's i could just have my other account loaded in, or a friend show up to the fight, and the AV's would be reletively easy.
1 Brute can deystroy and AV when his fury bar is all the way up, and he has a buffer on the side. I think nukes and shivans would make it possible. Keep in mind shivans take about 10-15 min prep time. Not all that much.
I think they are overpowered and should be nerfed significantly. but thats just me.
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Just looking at what you've said here.....
How long does it take you find enough slugs to join your team/get in zone/explain how they will be kicked at the start of the TF?
How long does it take people to show up when Babbage is too much for you? (My 4 or 5 man team recently took about 10 minutes to get enough pickup/broadcast people on him to start dropping his health. They weren't enough, even with about a dozen of them, until somebody dropped to get their 50 rad controller.)
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Well Babbage is completely skippable (Not sure why the person even bothered to kill him) and to create a team to start it really only takes a minute. (At least on Freedom)
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For that matter, write some code when if you summoned a shivan the AV summons a mega-shivan to crush the normal shivan would work just fine and dandy.
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OMG that would be badazz. lol.
<QR>
I don't really think it's an exploit. Shivans do make AV fights noticeably easier, yes. Should they nerf them? No, why bother? Unless the regen rate of AVs is reduced to about half of what it currently is (Why do they all have the pre-I4 IH anyway? ), leave the Shivans exactly as they are.
Let Ultimus do his thing. Let almost everyone else play the game the normal way. No biggie.
So I hear you can do solo Trials or Respec Trial?
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To be honest, even if you can solo a TF in 30 minutes and get Shivans in 10 minutes it's still not that easy.
*You need an Uber Build - 90% of the builds in the game can't do it.
* You need a bunch of people willing to join the TF and then log off so you can solo a reduced version of the TF. That takes a huge coordinated effort. Larger SG's may be able to pull it off , but again 90+% of the people in the game won't be able to in a regular manner.
It's not practical, or sane, to attempt to manipulate the system in this fashion more than once or even twice a day. Without Powergaming you could accomplish a TF a day.
Sure, one person may be insane enough to do it, but he needs to con a team worth of saps into helping him. How often is he going to be able to do that ?
Centinull
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And we are planning on attaching rares to these trials? My complaint about attaching these things to them (As Brainstorm said) is that I can complete these things WAY faster then any team can. I did in fact solo the City of Villains COV respec trial with my Brute in less then 25 minutes. (I think it was just a little over 19 minutes) Other SFs I've all soloed in COV in less then 30-40 minutes.
Ultimately, this means that if any of these Trials/TFs have rare recipes/salvage it will become VERY common by farmers. All a person needs is either a couple friends or dummy accounts to start the SF/Trial. Remember, Brainstorm also said that there is no specific enhancers tied to a SF/Trial. This means pick the easiest one and farm it with a single character.
I hate to say it but this means we need to either buff Arch Villains where they cannot be soloed anymore or limit Shivans/Nukes to PVP zones.
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Not this guy again...
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Well it should be talked about if certain "Rare" drops are coming from these Trials/StrikeForces (And supposely the best ones). The developers already stated they want to avoid farming and here is one of the easiest loop holes.
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Erm...I was teasing. It's been a dull day at work, so I'm resorting to teasing people in the forums as I wait for something I can constructively reply to. 
Personally, I'm with the group that says there will always be people like you who are capable of your level of play (that is a compliment - you rock!).
However, for 90% of the people I've teamed with (who are not slouches), I don't see them pulling off these feats you've accomplished. They cannot even with Nukes+Shivans+Warwolves+Amy Johnson+a jar of bees+Issue 1 Nemesis Staff.
OK, well MAYBE with the I1 Nemesis Staff.....
Seriously, my point is: I am not convinced it is as much of a farming/exploit as you assert. I suspect that Shivans are relatively "easy" because the original design of Bloody Bay (a free-for-all zone) they expected teams to have a high likelihood of breaking down into backstabbing as you got toward the end of the process coupled with having to deal with a more populated zone than BB ends up being.
Also remember.....rare does not mean best. It just means "rare".
Still though,
*gives Ultimus pie*
I see no reason for blasting the OP for pointing out a possible exploit of the rare drop system. He does it because he wants it fixed, not to brag. A new economy is coming to the game and he has pointed out a potential exploit and yet everyone either wants him to hush up about it (which is silly since data mining can find out if it's rampant anyway) or they dismiss him as an anomaly. Trust me, even if this is anomaly, it won't be once I9 hits the servers as there will be a gold rush to get those rares to market before anyone else. Let's get this issue out in the open now and deal with it.
Bah! You think you're so great. One time I ...went on a TF. It only took two years for me to have the time to do one.
IN YOUR FACE!
You know, just to throw this out there - I had a whole mess of crepes this morning. They're just like pancakes, maybe even better.
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Well good for you.
You're in a rather small minority. You're what datamining dismisses as an anomoly.
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I really dont think it is the case. If he is able to do these things he should keep his mouth closed about it and not put stuff like this on the boards. This is what leads to nerfs and such. If they were to nerf everytime someone like him posts stuff like this on the boards pretty soon no one will doing hardly anything as PUG. It will only be l337 players in certain SG/VGs that will be able to do the trials and such. For those groups I can see folks easily being eliminated just because you have the wrong build. How unfair will this be to the casual gamer that does not read the boards. I really fear for the casual gamer at this point because everything will be so beyond their reach.
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Communication like this leads to honest evaluation of our tactics by both the devs and players.This evaluation leads to a better game. A better game means more people having fun.
We're on different sides of the fence when it comes to your desires to have the old days back. Those old days didn't go away because of communication like this. They went away because they were detrimental to the long term health of the game itself.
Lets keep the feedback to the devs coming! It doesn't matter if it's 30 minute soloing of TFs or coming up with ways to double Fort from 1 empath, keep the communication flowing!