Rants, Forums, Lighthouse
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2006-12-13 19:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I find it interesting that the thread was left unlocked, probably as a gesture of tolerance from Lighthouse, and now it's gone on to all kinds of crazy rulebreaking stuff, and it's still unlocked. Just an observation. Some very interesting discussion here.
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Then we'll get the torches and pitchforks and head to Austin.
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I'm already here. I'll show you some great bars that we can all get liquored up in before the riots.
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Alright! You just can't have a good riot without getting liquored up first.
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If the liquoring up is good enough, we can skip the rioting, wake up the next day and go back tot he liquoring up.
Well I sent a PM to cricket on what I considered inconsitent behavior by mods in a post i made. Cricket replied quickly with clear information and although not exactly telling me what was wrong with my deleted posts (well they are deleted, kind of hard to read) was very professional. Just wanted to post a Thanks to Cricket
Yah, Cricket's alright. I really didn't like her much when she first took over for Cuppa, but I don't think the reasons for my dislike were very fair at that point. I think she's okay and have even apologized to her for thinking badly of her for things that we outside of her control.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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I've got a better example. Thankfully, it finally got pulled but... No, let me just explain it.
There was a post in Player Questions, in French. If you ran it through a translator, it called the sh** and the devs should be killed, or something like that. Pretty much, French was used to bypass the profanity filter. So, a few folks posted the translation and asked the OP what their question was, yada yada. Every post with the translation was modded but the OP remained. Finally, myself and another posted explaining that OP should be run through a translator because it was offensive and we both notified our own posts. Instructions for the mods kinda.
Our posts were modded out but the OP remained. At one point, that thread had every post except the OP deleted.
I am seriously confused by that. Posts explaining what the OP said were modded but the OP, full of profanity was fine? So, if I decide to cuss out everyone, if I run it through BabelFish first, it's ok?
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So I should be making all my posts in french when someone needs to be told off? Sweet. How the hell did I miss that post anyways? Wouldn't have even needed a damn translator.
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Valk was in there too. According to another poster who claimed to actually speak French, it sounded like the OP used a translator to begin with. Dunno, I don't know enough French and I don't know the person who said that well so, maybe.
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That was me...also modded (heh). Absolutely, the OP wrote his phrase in English, passed it through a translator and posted it. It came out horrible, but the intent was clear.
Did you know "chalice" is a swear word in French Quebec?
As is "tabernacle".
Innocent words in English.
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Did you know "chalice" is a swear word in French Quebec?
As is "tabernacle".
Innocent words in English.
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Yup. Most french swear words are related to religion.
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Did you know "chalice" is a swear word in French Quebec?
As is "tabernacle".
Innocent words in English.
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Yup. Most french swear words are related to religion.
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Well saying Jesus' name is used as a swear word in english and that's pretty religious. Which always confused me. Last time I checked saying Buddha!, or some such would get you looked at like a nutcase, but Christian blasphemy is not even edited on basic cable anymore. Having grown up in Ottawa, I am used to french swears as well, but I don't think the French have an exclusive on religious swears.
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I've got a better example. Thankfully, it finally got pulled but... No, let me just explain it.
There was a post in Player Questions, in French. If you ran it through a translator, it called the sh** and the devs should be killed, or something like that. Pretty much, French was used to bypass the profanity filter. So, a few folks posted the translation and asked the OP what their question was, yada yada. Every post with the translation was modded but the OP remained. Finally, myself and another posted explaining that OP should be run through a translator because it was offensive and we both notified our own posts. Instructions for the mods kinda.
Our posts were modded out but the OP remained. At one point, that thread had every post except the OP deleted.
I am seriously confused by that. Posts explaining what the OP said were modded but the OP, full of profanity was fine? So, if I decide to cuss out everyone, if I run it through BabelFish first, it's ok?
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So I should be making all my posts in french when someone needs to be told off? Sweet. How the hell did I miss that post anyways? Wouldn't have even needed a damn translator.
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Valk was in there too. According to another poster who claimed to actually speak French, it sounded like the OP used a translator to begin with. Dunno, I don't know enough French and I don't know the person who said that well so, maybe.
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That was me...also modded (heh). Absolutely, the OP wrote his phrase in English, passed it through a translator and posted it. It came out horrible, but the intent was clear.
Did you know "chalice" is a swear word in French Quebec?
As is "tabernacle".
Innocent words in English.
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Ah, wasn't sure. Thanks for jumping in.
Woah! This is still here? I still have nothing to add, I seem intellectually challenged when it comes to posting on this topic. (Who am I kidding? I'm always intellectually challenged. *Flags down the short bus.* I have a transformers lunch pale mister!)
That or my point of view will just get me burnt like a rich princess trying to a cook a hamburger. You be the judge? No, that's a bad idea.
Much <3.
Mortifier.
(No point intended.)
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After ironically having my pro-Lighthouse post deleted because I attached it to another post that got squished, I'll start at the top.
To reiterate - Lighthouse is doing a better job than CuppaJo. Yes, stealth-mods and stealth-deletions still occur, but when Lighthouse acts he tells us why. CuppaJo occasionally did, but usually she just threw a black bag over the head of the offending thread and had it dragged into an awaiting van.
I didn't (and still don't) get the fandom that surrounded Cuppa. She was nice enough for a voice on the wire, sure, but nothing special. But that's all she was for 99% of the forums - a voice on the wire.
But then I don't actually want the mods to be my friends. I don't want them to be friends with players because I think it creates the chance that they will let too much slide from certain people. I want the mods to be efficient, to be open about what they are doing / why they locked a thread and to show a steady hand. Lighthouse is doing all of this.
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I disagree with pretty much everything you say here.
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I can live with that.
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Awesome.
Also: People like Cuppa because she did communicate and related to the forum community. She'd been here since the beginning, and people know her.
One of the most effectively modded forums I'm on has multiple moderators, some of whom I consider friends (or at least friendly), and I'm sure lots of other people feel the same. They actively participate in forum threads all the time without being moderators. When they do post as moderators, the posts are clearly marked as such. Somehow, this does not make it impossible for them to function fairly.
CuppaJo was not a bad moderator, and she wasn't too friendly to function.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Personally, I'm not sure I've ever seen a large gaming forum survive as a "nice" place without heavy moderation.
I've also seldom seen that sort of heavy moderation required for other large hobby forums not related to gaming.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
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To take the counter point - there are likely thousands of posts made in a week. It would be incredibly difficult to read them all, so it's likely posts get skimmed and if something catches the eye then it might get trimmed (and sometimes, trimmed too extensively). And sometimes threads go very quickly from good to bad, so it might get away from them.
On top of this, I have to assume that mods have other responsibilities over just reading the forums all day. So "heaven forbit" that some posts, out of thousands per week, get missed. If anything, it suggests that mods should get a lot more delete-happy, because that will catch all problem posts.
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Now you're implying that all the posts that do get deleted need to be deleted, and that is so not the case. I can understand them missing posts, and I'd be okay with that if they weren't also deleting posts that simply do not cross the line. You're excluding possibilities here to make it sound like consistent moderation is a pipe dream.
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Final point:
And if your post does get deleted for good or ill, what has it cost you?
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The time spent posting it, as well as the people who might have read it and their reactions to it.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Personally, I'm not sure I've ever seen a large gaming forum survive as a "nice" place without heavy moderation.
I've also seldom seen that sort of heavy moderation required for other large hobby forums not related to gaming.
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We're not talking about weight, we're talking about consistency.
Also, nice jab at gaming fora. It's not true, either - I've never seen an active forum that didn't eventually need moderation, regardless the subject matter.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I would welcome that. I got a warning for echoing a playful jab at another poster (using the same exact words he used). I got a warning, he did not.
Inconsistency is the problem, not the moderation.
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Actually, the guy who retaliates is always more likely to get pegged than the guy who starts it. It's a fact of life.
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This is a fallacy. Not the observation that life is unfair - that's true. Rather, using that to justify further unfair behavior is a fallacy.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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We're not talking about weight, we're talking about consistency.
Also, nice jab at gaming fora. It's not true, either - I've never seen an active forum that didn't eventually need moderation, regardless the subject matter.
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Granted about weight vs. consistency. I take that comment back.
And I suppose I should mention that I seldom see large non-gaming hobby forums (NaNoWriMo forums come to mind) require enough moderation to make consistency an issue. However, this is only my experience. (I do go to Gaia Online occasionally, so I understand that exceptions exist.)
I have to jab because it's really what I've seen based on my experiences. I don't know why it is, but it seems to hold true thus far for me.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
People are funny
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I think "Lighthouse & Friends" (Good name, huh?) are doing a fine job.
Granted, I've disagreed twice on the Mods choice of thread deletion, although, side from that, there's not one mistake I've seen them make (concerning moderation).
All the closed threads have been a load of nuts and bolts. 
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I think "Lighthouse & Friends" (Good name, huh?) are doing a fine job.
Granted, I've disagreed twice on the Mods choice of thread deletion, although, side from that, there's not one mistake I've seen them make (concerning moderation).
All the closed threads have been a load of nuts and bolts.
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It only takes one exception to disprove all, yes?
Miss_Kitty's followup "the tails are clipping" thread. The first thread got out of hand, got locked, Kitty started a second one, it did not get out of hand...it got locked.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
To be fair, there already was a thread about it, and the mods showed a fair hand for the original thread(not created by me). The notify mod button worked well for the life of that thread(people just loved flaming tail lovers in that thread. No idea why).
At this point there is nothing that can be done. I find this discussion interesting but ultimately useless. There are two options. Live with the current moderation, or go to a fan site forum.
I Pm'ed Lighthouse some feedback both good and bad.
I dont like doing that sort of thing in public.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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...or go to a fan site forum.
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Did you ever find a good one?
.....Kinda.
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After ironically having my pro-Lighthouse post deleted because I attached it to another post that got squished, I'll start at the top.
To reiterate - Lighthouse is doing a better job than CuppaJo. Yes, stealth-mods and stealth-deletions still occur, but when Lighthouse acts he tells us why. CuppaJo occasionally did, but usually she just threw a black bag over the head of the offending thread and had it dragged into an awaiting van.
I didn't (and still don't) get the fandom that surrounded Cuppa. She was nice enough for a voice on the wire, sure, but nothing special. But that's all she was for 99% of the forums - a voice on the wire.
But then I don't actually want the mods to be my friends. I don't want them to be friends with players because I think it creates the chance that they will let too much slide from certain people. I want the mods to be efficient, to be open about what they are doing / why they locked a thread and to show a steady hand. Lighthouse is doing all of this.
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I disagree with pretty much everything you say here.
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And I disagree with your disagreement and say that, in my opinion, UnSub is absolutely right.
Lighthouse is here to do a job. Being your friend is optional.
When you have a stuck/bugged mission, and you /petition for a GM, do you want someone to come in and joke with you about it for a half hour, or do you want someone who will fix it?
I've had a few posts modded, and I've had a few traffic stops. In both cases, I'd broken the rules, gone out of bounds, and I knew it. I didn't curse the guy who caught me doing it.
I've got friends in the game, outside the game, and a couple here on the forums. I don't need the board-cop to be my friend; I just want him to do his job, efficiently and fairly. I haven't seen any credible (IMO) evidence that Lighthouse is not doing exactly this.
I believe that some people got used to a very lenient standard of enforcement and are now having to deal with a much stricter one. It's unfortunate that we've gone from one extreme to another, but I disagree that the solution is for the new moderator to unilaterally loosen up. Posters are going to have to learn to behave better, as they always should have.
I'm not saying this stuff because I want Lighthouse to like me. I want him to keep doing his job. That's all.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Ok, I know that I'm probably gonna hear flack for it, but I agree 100% when the threads get "modsmacked," closed, or deleted.
Yes, this is an online community, but this is also a corporate run website. This isn't a fansite... it's an official one. Though there may not be rules posted about how to act in the community and what is or isn't acceptable, the "rules" are subject to change at any time. They provide the space for us to do this, so things have to be done their way.
I didn't read all of the posts yet, so I appologize if someone already mentioned this.
~A.C.
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
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Valk was in there too. According to another poster who claimed to actually speak French, it sounded like the OP used a translator to begin with. Dunno, I don't know enough French and I don't know the person who said that well so, maybe.
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Damn, can't believe I missed that.
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Me too, I'd have loved to have seen it.
From now on I want PM's with links to all interesting threads like that.
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me too!