Mna_Grok

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And for the record, respect is earned never given.

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I have to (partially) disagree with you here.

When you respect someone, there are two things you are actually showing respect for. The person and the position that they occupy.

Respect for the position that they occupy should be given.
Respect for the person needs to be earned.

(Possibly biased due to a military background.)

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Yeah, but some things should be untouched, like yesterday, someone on the pinnacle forums was warning everyone how a paticlur person was hijacking other peoples accounts and using it for his gain, that was definatly one that shouldve been left up, for what the guy did he deserved too get fried.

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I think if the OP could've left his name out and just warned us about how a hacker could hijacker out accounts and use it for personal gain. I think that this route if the OP had undeniable proof of how it was done, then it may have been better. But still I would have given the GM's the information and warn anyone I could about how it could be done without naming names. If I feel that I would be warned for sounding a warning then I would give my proof to the GM's or Lighthouse and see if they could properly warn our fellow players.

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It is *always* best to send this info directly to Lighthouse and the other rednames.

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When a con moan con's someone is it better to warn people about the man or his con game? His con game of course, because if you do not then another copycat con man could use the same con and you could be riped off because the name is different.

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There is also the possibility that there was no account hijacking, and the post was just an attempt to grief the player named...

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Patrick Henry, William Wallace, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Jesus. These guys all had problems with authority. The guys at the Nuremburg trials? Just following orders.

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By comparing yourself to them, and the moderation staff (and Lighthouse) to the guys at the Nuremburg trials, you are really inflating the importance of both yourself (hell, any poster on these boards) and the moderation team.

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And you cannot seem to read a complete post.
I was not comparing posting on a board to any action those people did, and I certainly did not compare the moderation team to the defendants at Nuremburg. Not even in the slightest.

What I DID do, was respond to PREVIOUS posts saying that I had problems with authority. I agreed that I did and so did they. Having problems with authority does not make you equal to any of those men. But having problems with authority is not in itself a bad thing, as THEIR actions proved.

I never said the moderators followed orders, as those at Nuremburg did. I said mindless following of orders was similar to the actions of those war criminals. NOTHING on this board in any way is similar to what was actually done by them. So in short I did not call ANYONE a nazi.

I was defending my statements which had accused me of having authority issues. THAT IS ALL! So thanks all for the clarification about calling someone nazis, but I didn't do it.

So to sum up for those who only read first and last paragraphs - I revel in my problem with authority, many great people have been the same. Mods are not being compared to Nazis. Mindless obedience is. Okay got that now?

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You may not have meant to do that, but your post certainly came across as if you were doing so.

Your first couple of paragraphs comment on previous posts and how your problems with Cricket are resolved. Your next paragraph is a prologue to those who think your posts are "immature" and that you "have a problem with authority." The next two paragraphs say that you do have problems with authority, and that those who mindlessly follow someone with authority are sheep. You then mention, in your last paragraph, others who had problems with authority (the people) and what happened to those that simply followed orders, like sheep.

As I said above, you may not have meant to imply it or make the comparison, but the way that your post is worded certainly makes it seem like you did.

If I misread it, I apologize.

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Also, breaking Godwin's Law=Critical Failure.

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Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

Are you sure Godwin's Law is the one you mean to reference here?

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I think that he means the more common usage of Godwin's law, at least, the more common one that I have seen used, that states that as soon as Godwin's Law is true, the argument is automatically lost by the one who causes it to be true.

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Patrick Henry, William Wallace, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Jesus. These guys all had problems with authority. The guys at the Nuremburg trials? Just following orders.

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By comparing yourself to them, and the moderation staff (and Lighthouse) to the guys at the Nuremburg trials, you are really inflating the importance of both yourself (hell, any poster on these boards) and the moderation team.

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Oh I missed that part of pt's post. You're totally corect though. Using extreme examples is a really poor method of communication. Comparing your paper cut to a sucking chest wound isn't doing anyone any favours.

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We are talking about a computer game on the internet. There is no way this will EVER come anywhere close to the importance of the people or event that he infers they are similar to.

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Also, breaking Godwin's Law=Critical Failure.

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For those unfamiliar with the term:

Godwin's Law
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As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

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There is also this generally accepted tradition as well:
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There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law.

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Troll

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So do you think that the inferred equivalence is valid or not?

As I mentioned, I think that there is no way, shape or form in which there can ever be a valid comparison.

This.
Is.
A.
Game.

We are not Patrick Henry, William Wallace, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson or Jesus, and this is not Nuremburg. What is going on here will *never* reach the importance of those people or that event.


Edited for spelling mistakes

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Patrick Henry, William Wallace, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Jesus. These guys all had problems with authority. The guys at the Nuremburg trials? Just following orders.

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By comparing yourself to them, and the moderation staff (and Lighthouse) to the guys at the Nuremburg trials, you are really inflating the importance of both yourself (hell, any poster on these boards) and the moderation team.

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Oh I missed that part of pt's post. You're totally corect though. Using extreme examples is a really poor method of communication. Comparing your paper cut to a sucking chest wound isn't doing anyone any favours.

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We are talking about a computer game on the internet. There is no way this will EVER come anywhere close to the importance of the people or event that he infers they are similar to.

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Also, breaking Godwin's Law=Critical Failure.

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For those unfamiliar with the term:

Godwin's Law
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As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

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There is also this generally accepted tradition as well:
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There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law.

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Patrick Henry, William Wallace, Gandhi, Thomas Jefferson, Jesus. These guys all had problems with authority. The guys at the Nuremburg trials? Just following orders.

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By comparing yourself to them, and the moderation staff (and Lighthouse) to the guys at the Nuremburg trials, you are really inflating the importance of both yourself (hell, any poster on these boards) and the moderation team.

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Did you know "chalice" is a swear word in French Quebec?
As is "tabernacle".

Innocent words in English.

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Yup. Most french swear words are related to religion.

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snip

In short, we don't know what's going to be smacked and what isn't. It's not like we know what the rules are and we're complaining about them because we think they're too harsh, we're complaining that we don't know what the gorram rules are in the first place.

Tell me what the rules are and enforce them consistantly and I'll either follow them or I'll find some way to live with them, but the first step is knowing where the boundaries are.

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Personally, I think most people know approximately where the boundaries are. The majority of people post without their posts ever getting attention from a mod. The majority of threads never get mod visits.

I agree that the exact boundary line between acceptable and not acceptable may not be known, but is it really necessary to know exactly what gets modsmacked and what doesn't?

Personally, I don't think so. For me, knowing approximately where it is is good enough. For others it may not be.

edit - PS, your attribution is wrong. The quote you have is from me, the post you replied to is not.^

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As it is now, there's no sign telling us what the speed limit is, but we can tell it's a two lane highway in the country, so we can assume it's 55. Suddenly, out of nowhere we hit a speed trap and get ticketed without any warning. I'd like some clearer road signs and stricter enforcement, personally.

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You can sit there and tell me that you don't know if what you write will or will not get mod-smacked.

boggle

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Actually, he's right.

I've seen posts that were obvious attacks on other posters go off scott-free and others that contained nothing more than a reference to underwear get delted entirely.

It's not necessarily anarchy, but to a fairly significant degree nobody really knows for sure where the line is.

And i'm sayin this as someone who likes to skirt the line... I don't actually know where it is.

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But you know if a post that you make *should* be smacked or not, or at least I do.

Maybe it is because my posting style is different from yours and his, or maybe it is some other reason, but when I am typing out a post, if it is something that strays close to the modsmackage line, I don't post it and move on to the next post.

shrug

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For the love of jelly beans.

It's a freakin internet message forum.

Get over yourselves.

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It's an internet message forum where we try to socialize, discuss the game, and have some fun. When that socializing, discussion, and fun is disrupted because we simply cannot tell what standards are being used to determine which threads have to go, it's well within reason to get annoyed or frustrated and ask why this is happening.

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And I have said in a later message that I completely supported the right of people to complain.

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Trying to shut down an argument by exclaiming how irrelevant the topic strikes me as something that must be formally defined as a logical fallacy somewhere. Maybe you should reconsider that gambit, if you want to convince us that we have no business criticizing the recent moderation activities. This forum is not irrelevant or unimportant or we wouldn't be here discussing anything. It is true that this forum might not be of paramount importance in our lives, or relate to critical matters of national security. However, this forum is here for discussion of City of Heroes and tangents related to that. If you're unwilling to acknowledge that this forum is important and relevant in that particular regard, maybe you should find someplace a bit more important to post.

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When I posted my comment that you quoted above, it was in reference to the number of people comparing the moderation policy (or lack thereof, depending on your point of view) to gross Human Rights violations like Slavery and Racial discrimination, and saying that the fact that they don't like the moderation policy (or lack thereof) merits civil disobedience. It is the people who are making the comparisons that my comment was being directed at.

I was in no way trying to say that people have no right to complain. Like I mentioned above, in a later post I made I explicitly stated that I support people's right to complain. As a customer of Cryptic/NCSoft, it is your right to complain when you see something that you don't like. At the same time, it is Cryptic/NCSoft's right to ignore your complaints[1], label them as whining[2], or consider them serious. They are the ones that are running the company/managing the game, it is their right to decide which complaints are serious, and which complaints are not.

Lighthouse is in a difficult position. He is replacing CuppaJo, and he is doing what he can. Personally, I like the way he is doing his job.



[1] At the risk of ruining their relationship with you and losing a customer.

[2] Note I am not saying that all complaints are whining, nor that you are whining.

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As it is now, there's no sign telling us what the speed limit is, but we can tell it's a two lane highway in the country, so we can assume it's 55. Suddenly, out of nowhere we hit a speed trap and get ticketed without any warning. I'd like some clearer road signs and stricter enforcement, personally.

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You can sit there and tell me that you don't know if what you write will or will not get mod-smacked.

boggle

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You are more than free to vote with your dollar, and leave. Why is it so difficult to accept the rules of someone's house you're a guest in, regardless of whether *you* agree with them or not?

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I am not a guest in NCsoft's house, I am a customer in their store. Different relationship.

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But in both cases, in order to continue being a guest/customer, you need to follow the rules that they have set in order to be a guest/customer.

If you don't like the rules, then complain all you want, but don't be surprised if, during your complaining, the store manager says "You are disturbing our other customers, please leave now."

Every time that you log onto the game (or the forums) you agree to follow their rules. Break their rules, suffer the consequences.

Let me make this clear, I completely support your (general, not specific) right to complain about something you don't like. However, doing it on private property runs the risk of you losing access to that private property. There are numerous other avenues which can be used which cannot be controlled by NCSoft/Cryptic.

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I'd like to see all modded threads have justification posted somewhere. I also don't think it is necessary to have his modding posts show up in the Dev Digest, though it's not that big of a deal. If there were some way to easily not include them in the dev digest, I think it would be better.

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I had a PM discussion with CuppaJo about this once. The reason why, to her, it was a bad idea (I agree as well) is that posting the reasons why threads get modded will result in people complaining. People will start trying to find that fine line between getting modded and it staying on the forums.

Many times (barring clear violations), forum moderation is a matter of "feel" and "gut" as to when a post crosses the line.

As for people who complain/state that their post disappeared (either in this thread or another thread), it is not because your post was in violation. The way the CoX forum software works, when you delete a post, all of the posts that are replies to that post get deleted as well. (I don't know how far down the reply path it goes, but I suspect it is quite far)

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For the love of jelly beans.

It's a freakin internet message forum.

Get over yourselves.

The moderation of these boards is in no way comparable, in any shape or form, to being enslaved or fighting some big human rights battle.

This[1] is private property. If we want to play here, we have to follow their rules.

Whether you consider it their house, or their store, it makes no difference. They are the ones that set the rules. We are the ones that (are supposed to) follow them.


[1]The game and the mesage forums.

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Global: @Mna Grok
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Height: 6'0"
SG Affiliation: Simian Defence Force, PCSAD, Public Works
Most Recognizable Server Toon: Mna Grok

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I never knew you were Canadian too, Grok! That's awesome!

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I never knew that *you* were canadian.

Canadian's rock!!

Global: @Mna Grok
Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Height: 6'0"
SG Affiliation: Simian Defence Force, PCSAD, Public Works
Most Recognizable Server Toon: Mna Grok

doesn't mean that you should.

Whoah!!

Eeep!!

Interesting side-effect of new physics engine

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Now I had this dream with a groundhog, waterskies and a coconut.

What does it mean??

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It means that I'm calling the FBI.

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HAH!! I knew you couldn't read minds.

It should have been the SPCA that you called!!!

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Actually, the FBI has started a new Task Force to deal with your kind of prevert...

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Cool!! Who do I go to see to start it?? What level ranges are we talking about?? Am I allowed to do it naked with a chicken and a plunger??

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Now I had this dream with a groundhog, waterskies and a coconut.

What does it mean??

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It means that I'm calling the FBI.

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HAH!! I knew you couldn't read minds.

It should have been the SPCA that you called!!!

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Yes, we are all well aware of your position on this.

You lost.

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Lost?? I disagreed with the decision to put Isolator back in the game. But I didn't consider it a win/lose decision. The devs decided differently. No big deal.

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Your posting history says otherwise.

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Thank you for providing me with the proper interpretation of my postings and my thoughts when posting them. All of a sudden my life is much clearer and easier to understand.

Now I had this dream with a groundhog, waterskies and a coconut.

What does it mean??

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Yes, we are all well aware of your position on this.

You lost.

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Lost?? I disagreed with the decision to put Isolator back in the game. But I didn't consider it a win/lose decision. The devs decided differently. No big deal.

In fact, I am rather amused by the way that it was put in.

1 spawn every 2 hours in a PvP zone.

Priceless

What??

This thread is still alive??

/em Pulls out wooden stake, matches, holy water, garlic and a herring

stabstabstab
whackawhackawhacka

/em Stares and head of thread, still firmly attached to body.
/em Stares at herring, now a pulp.
/em replaces holy water with blessed gasoline and holy napalm

pourpourpour

/em Lights match
/em Throws match

Whoosh!!

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OOOHH. Look!! A brick wall, let me pound it with my head.

<ul type="square">[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[*]Here.[/list]
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Look, I'm going to ignore you mna until you give me your opinion on this

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All those links that I gave you were my previous posts, giving my opinions on why Isolator shouldn't have been put in the game outside of Outbreak. If you aren't going to take the time to read them, well, I am not going to go through the effort of re-typing or copy/pasting them again.

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, the devs have already put contamineted in rv so the so called, "waste ot the devs time" is put out of the way

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Like I have previously mentioned in this very thread, the devs have made the decision to put it back in, on test, and it will presumably go to live in a couple of weeks when I7 does. I could see myself having further discussions on the idea why it was bad to put in with several pro-isolators, because it would be civil and intelligent. I hate to inform you that you do not fall under that category.

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I diddnt start playing this game since beta, Ive been playing since after issue 3, the one thing I want is an honest answer, no links, no qoutes, just your reason on why you think ppl shouldnt get a 2nd chance at isolator

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The only people who have an honest, legitimate (in my opinion), reason for asking for Isolator to be put back in outside of OutBreak are those that rolled up their characters prior to I2. Badges were implimented in I2 (I think) and people who rolled up prior to that and who wanted badges had no way (short of re-rolling) of getting it.

Everyone else had the opportunity.