Rants, Forums, Lighthouse
By
0zymandous,
Posted on: 2006-12-13 19:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
[censored] totally!!! Finaly someone who finaly post this thread. Discussion begin.
I wouldn't blame everything on Lighthouse. I think a lot of moderators have become a little smack-happy.
I dont neccesarily agree that its lighthouse. Its moderation as a whole, its gotten really bad lately and its almost not worth posting.
Rants are against forum policy. Thus, why they are locked.
People in this community start thing over EVERYTHING. I mean jeez, did you see how far the glowie ettiquete thread went? It went from nice talking to... let's say, female-dogging about everything. I don't have experience in GIGANTIC forum moderating, but the forums I run for another videogame series, the Tony Hawk's Pro Skater series (http://www.Create-A-Review.com /end shameless plug), we have alot of people always trying to put a toe over the line. If you do not lay down the rules and enforce them at every chance you get, then things get out of hand, your community gets unruley, and no one new will be "accepted" to your forums. Lighthouse does an excellent job here, along with the other mods. The only thing I have to say about Lighthouse, is I may have to stab him if he does not answer my PMs. I don't want blood on my hands!
Unfortunately rules are rules. They have to be enforced. Granted, closing an entire thread over "butthead" may seem extreme. Removing posts is easier sometimes to not uproar the vocal minority.
Send him a PM about it also. Its an easier way to get his attention rather then making whats guaranteed to downgrade fast. You set it up this way, you know what to expect.
There can't be a dedicated rants forum. It goes directly against the board rules (forum games already touches one of the rules but its too hard to enforce in that section so its largely ignored unless its really out of line).
Make a sensible looking rant and it won't get locked as often as someone just venting their chest like a child would.
This space is intentionally left blank.
[ QUOTE ]
I wonder how many respones this will generate before Lighthouse closes this thread down.
[/ QUOTE ]
He's well within his rights to lock or delete this thread.
[ QUOTE ]
6. Censorship Posts.
All posts referring to message board censorship will be removed. All message board content is allowed/removed at the discretion of NCsoft. These posts will be removed and the poster warned. Any further posts will be removed, and the poster will be banned from the message boards. Also, working around a ban to continue posting is also prohibited and may incur an extension of a current ban.
Threads designed to announce, appeal or contest a forum or game banning decision on behalf of a third party will be removed without notice.
No personal attacks against forum moderators. If you disagree with an action taken by a moderator, you can send your complaint via PM to the moderator or go to http://support.plaync.com and submit your issue to us via the “Ask a Question” tab.
[/ QUOTE ]
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
/signed.
The "rants" are the most dynamic, entertaining parts of the boards. It is the clash between the rational and irrational. Are the boards not supposed to be entertaining?
Yeah, but some things should be untouched, like yesterday, someone on the pinnacle forums was warning everyone how a paticlur person was hijacking other peoples accounts and using it for his gain, that was definatly one that shouldve been left up, for what the guy did he deserved too get fried.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
True, rules are rules and they need to be enforced - to a point. In Washington State the speed limit is the law - no grace limit like oh, 5 miles over is okay but 6 and we'll hit you with a ticket. So imagine going one mile over the limit and getting pulled over and getting a ticket. Tell me, would you thank the officer and say "Rules are rules. I will pay the ticket first thing tomorrow"? OR would you try to reason with officer, maybe get him to give you a warning? Maybe say that there are worse crimes he could be policing? May even just take the ticket but then go to court to fight it, knowing that the judge would probably reduce the ticket? Where is the rules are rules line then? Rules are rules ONLY when they suit us. I have never had a post edited or deleted or had a thread closed. I have complete freeness of speech in this...
The fact that a rants forum is currently against the rules does not make it impossible. The rules can be changed.
[ QUOTE ]
Are the boards not supposed to be entertaining?
[/ QUOTE ]
The boards are, I believe, meant to be first informative and educational, and then entertaining.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
Hi LadyExxotica,
Thanks for taking the time to post your feelings and concerns. I have also received feedback on this same topic since I started. This is home for a good number of people and they've let me know (and some of the Dev's too!) how they feel it is being handled. Some people have expressed they like the change of pace and felt that the forums had grown a bit unruly. Some others let me know they felt I was being overly prohibitive and stifling. I respect the fact that I'm the newcomer here and do my best to keep the feelings of our posters in mind.
I do lament that I don't have as much time as I'd like to just involve myself in discussions on the forums. Unfortunately, that means that a lot of times when I post into a thread, it is as you said, to address some concern with how the topic is progressing or to shut something down. So, that is to say, I can understand your feelings about my presence on the forums. It is something I'm aware of and working to address.
We do have good reason for the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines that govern conduct on these forums. This place is not an open soapbox for anyone who wants to stand up and rant and bash the game or to talk about topics not on the game. We have these forums to help players get the most out of the game and those rules are a good part of keeping that experience a positive one.
I welcome any input and feelings about how we run things around here. If you don't want to voice that here, please feel free to write me a private message.
Respectfully yours,
Lighthouse
Lighthouse
Community Relations Manager
If you have a specific in game, account, tech or billing problem please contact our Customer Support team via The Knowledge Base "Ask A Question" page.
<<<<
>>>>
+1
[ QUOTE ]
A final suggestion - a forum dedicated to rants only?
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that was what the Archetype forums were there for!
He's still finding his own groove. Heck, he posted a joke in Freedom's section recently, it was shocking... and a little scary. Also, even though Cricket took the reins for a bit, Lighthouse is still very much in Cuppa's shadow. Love her, hate her, whatever. But she has a way of getting her point across without mass smackage. And she won't not smack if it's needed.
Lighthouse just needs to find his own style here. We're an interesting community to join up. One person starts a thread asking why Statesman's in-game character is grouchy and Jack posts 'Because I'm grouchy'. There's an interesting synergy going on here between devs and players. Give Lighthouse a few more months to settle in.
Then we'll get the torches and pitchforks and head to Austin.
Except the problem with your example is, who knows if the accusations were true?
I didn't see that thread so I don't know what type of proof the original poster of that thread had, but I'd imagine the whole deal is akin to walking in a federal building and telling anyone near by that it is going to be attacked. Don't you think secuirty would come and take the guy away to talk to him in a private situation? Regardless if it is true or not, you go to the proper authorities first and let them handle it.
You can't just go directly to the "people" to talk, even if the reasoning is for the better good.
"Ben is short for Frank."
-Baffling Beer-Man, The Tenacious 3: The Movie
[IMG]http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/BafflingBeerman/teamjackface1.jpg[/IMG]
[ QUOTE ]
Then we'll get the torches and pitchforks and head to Austin.
[/ QUOTE ]
The hiring post makes me think that he's in California, though.
I am confused.
Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue
Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then we'll get the torches and pitchforks and head to Austin.
[/ QUOTE ]
The hiring post makes me think that he's in California, though.
I am confused.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dammit!
I always get Cryptic's HQ and NC's HQ confoozled...
So we'll appoint a navigator then head to... NC HQ!
ya light house is doin his job i can understand that heck he helped me with a certain person who will not be named but he has closed many popular threads and deleted only minor post he even edited one of my posts in the big red ball threads so ppl wouldnt think i was talken about some other balls >.>
and once a mod (not lighthouse) took of my zomg
Umm.. what? Without punctuation, I have no idea what the heck you're trying to say, xoxman. 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi LadyExxotica,
Thanks for taking the time to post your feelings and concerns. I have also received feedback on this same topic since I started. This is home for a good number of people and they've let me know (and some of the Dev's too!) how they feel it is being handled. Some people have expressed they like the change of pace and felt that the forums had grown a bit unruly. Some others let me know they felt I was being overly prohibitive and stifling. I respect the fact that I'm the newcomer here and do my best to keep the feelings of our posters in mind.
I do lament that I don't have as much time as I'd like to just involve myself in discussions on the forums. Unfortunately, that means that a lot of times when I post into a thread, it is as you said, to address some concern with how the topic is progressing or to shut something down. So, that is to say, I can understand your feelings about my presence on the forums. It is something I'm aware of and working to address.
We do have good reason for the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines that govern conduct on these forums. This place is not an open soapbox for anyone who wants to stand up and rant and bash the game or to talk about topics not on the game. We have these forums to help players get the most out of the game and those rules are a good part of keeping that experience a positive one.
I welcome any input and feelings about how we run things around here. If you don't want to voice that here, please feel free to write me a private message.
Respectfully yours,
Lighthouse
[/ QUOTE ] ty lighthouse we know you are new to the job and we are glad you are doing your job
i can understand when u rly need to step in and im glad u r doin ur job but it u have been a little uptight i mean honestly something is wrong when a mod nerfs my zomgrof
[ QUOTE ]
I cringe everytime I see his name in a discussion. Maybe I am not very sensitive to people's feelings but Lighthouse seems to be politically correct to the extreme. Someone could use the word "butthead" in a post and he will close it down. Have we become such a community that we cannot tolerate even minor rants and dissenting responses?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Maybe I've simply missed the threads you're thinking of, but I don't recall seeing any threads locked or deleted for trivial reasons. What Lighthouse has been doing differently, I think, has been quoting the actual parts of the ToS that people are breaking in the threads he locks. This can seem more heavy-handed to people who are well aware of what rules are being broken than silently locking them (which will simply remove the thread from the front page).
Perhaps Cuppajo or Cricket had a better handle on which flame wars were likely to die of their own accord and ignored them instead of making an appearance, but I don't think they were any more permissive.
Lighthouse has also offered links to examples of posts that have covered the same topics as the locked threads but did so in a more constructive manner. For example, he linked to several posts about the Controller nerfs that he felt were constructive feedback. Again, I think this is a good thing, but it can come across as unnecessarily parental.
To be perfectly honest, if you ever start to think the forums are going downhill, keep in mind that it is ultimately the forum posters that are to blame. Us, in other words. Rather than complaining about Lighthouse (who wouldn't have even been hired if there weren't enough work to keep him busy), we should make a point of thinking a bit more before we speak.
Personally, I've had posts deleted and I doubt any of them was an innocent bystander. There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything, even complain.
One thing I'ma say though; I rather like how Lighthouse doesn't just delete or lock threads without *saying* something first.
I know some people might not understand >< but for me - Knowing *why* a thread was shutdown is invaluable. It feels... well more respectful. I know technically we as posters aren't entitled to a whole lot of that if we break the rules - but it feels better to not just have your post vanish into the void. A locked thread is still dead - and it lets you see what you need to avoid.
Then again, I may just be a fansquirrel <,< (<@_@> and just because it rhymes with 'fangirl' doesn't make me a girl in RL! I have nuts! BIG ONES. Anyone want a walnut? <. .> Almond perhaps? Pistachios are nice too!)
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
Just last night I had a post of mine trimmed from a thread. I don't mind. It happens. The Mods are paid to do what they do.
Some people, though, live in a black and white, right or wrong world.
When I first started in a management position overseeing 40 Team Members, I came across strongly on many issues and rules calls. I did so to make sure everyone understood that I wasn't going to be a push-over and that I was there to get things done and done properly. Since that time I have relaxed a little and let the minor, unimportant issues slide. I now focus on the larger issues/picture. That's just me though.
I don't mind our new red-name Overlord. May his reign be a prosperous one!
I'd disagree a bit to go the other extreme. Personally, I don't see enough going on. Or, rather too much of one side getting the 'thread trim' while other things just get ignored. Using your example, calling someone a 'butthead' gets a thread locked or trimmed. That really doesn't bother me too much, as it is NCSoft's message forum, and thus their rules. However, on the other side of the coin, there are some users who just spam threads with the same stupid, mindless, drivel, and they're pretty much left alone. They treat decent threads as 'Forum Games' and are allowed to degenerate threads into nothingness.
Personally, I'd like to see the patented Lighthouse Thread Weedwacker get taken to more of the latter.
As you can tell, I have rarely posted on the forums. That being said, I do read through select ones nearly every day. Lately I have noticed a disturbing trend regarding rants and the forums and Lighthouse.
More and more discussions/rants are being closed down by Lighthouse. I realize he is the Community Relations go-to person, but in trying to establish his unique presence in that role, I feel he has gone a bit too far at times, more than not.
I cringe everytime I see his name in a discussion. Maybe I am not very sensitive to people's feelings but Lighthouse seems to be politically correct to the extreme. Someone could use the word "butthead" in a post and he will close it down. Have we become such a community that we cannot tolerate even minor rants and dissenting responses?
I wonder how many respones this will generate before Lighthouse closes this thread down.
What I would like to see is a bit more balance from Lighthouse, more leeway being given to rants. Maybe it is me, but the rants lately have been generating some good discussions, some good feedback with only a few poor posters using inappropriate language.
Rather than merely closing down the rants, Lighthouse could close them and then open up a new discussion forum where he has distilled the rant's thoughts/points and then invite feedback. Would that mean some more work for Lighthouse? Yes, but he is the Community Rep. Wouldn't his job be to not only monitor but also direct and redirect discussions in a more positive vein?
I know that this post will divide many on the issue of Rants in general and I know some will take sides over Lighthouse. I do not dislike Lighthouse - I have seen some quality respones from him. MY OPINION is that he could back off a bit on his politically correct stick and allow us to work out our rants on our own or step in only when really neccesary.
A final suggestion - a forum dedicated to rants only? A free for all rant forum where users would have to agree that what is said in the forum stays in the forum?
Thanks for listening. This has just been something that has bugged me from day one of Lighthouse being here....