Rants, Forums, Lighthouse

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Also, breaking Godwin's Law=Critical Failure.

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Godwin's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

Are you sure Godwin's Law is the one you mean to reference here?

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I think that he means the more common usage of Godwin's law, at least, the more common one that I have seen used, that states that as soon as Godwin's Law is true, the argument is automatically lost by the one who causes it to be true.

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Ah. That's not Godwin's Law. That's argumentum ad Hitlerum.

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And for the record, respect is earned never given.

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I have to (partially) disagree with you here.

When you respect someone, there are two things you are actually showing respect for. The person and the position that they occupy.

Respect for the position that they occupy should be given.
Respect for the person needs to be earned.

(Possibly biased due to a military background.)

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The reason some replies are deleted along with ones that don't look to be harmful is because any reply "chained" from that deleted one is deleted also unless you reply differently. Thats why harmless posts are sometimes wiped when a forum breaking post gets wiped.

I figured everyone knew that by now...

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While this is true, it doesn't really change anything. Because this is how the moderating software has ALWAYS worked, and the problems we're talking about in here are recent.

Clearly, something different is going on. You can't blame the software in this case. Instead, people are blaming the person who is supposed to be in charge of this (there could be someone else in charge, but we don't know of that person), since the changes have only happened since he stepped up to bat.

I'm not going to say "lighthouse sucks". I don't know that. I don't pretend to know what's going on behind the scenes. I know that several excuses have been made, from various people... I've heard about the forum software being blamed. That doesn't fly because the problem is recent. I've heard "outsourced moderators" blamed. That excuse would only be legitimate if they started outsourcing moderators at about the same time that cuppajo left or lighthouse stepped up. I've heard people blame the forum members themselves - saying the posts deserved to be deleted or didn't... but that would also imply that as a whole, the forum community changed at approxamately the same time cuppa left or lighthouse stepped in. (both times moderation changed a little, became more lax when cuppa left, and became too hard and random when lighthouse came in)

I don't assume I know what's going on - but I think we can at least figure out some of the things that AREN'T going on.

Zeus - god of excuses

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if you read all my posts, you would see I was using the lampooning of his moniker as a method to prove a point.

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Your point failed. And pretty badly. You see, there are several ways to make a point. Some of them are better than others, and some have more side effects than others. You compare posts to important topics, such as nuremburg trials. I compare your posts to farting loudly in a classroom. That kid who farts loudly in a classroom may be trying to prove a point - he may think that the teacher's monotone lecture is poorly spoken and boring the classroom. But meanwhile the methodology he's using to express himself is immature, and no one is going to even CARE to get the actual intent of his actions.. the only effect his action will elicit is a trip to the principal's office and a lack of respect from every intelligent person in the classroom.

Your posts have a similar effect. People aren't getting your point because you're using the logic of a 9 year old to express yourself. You could be an intelligent and respectable person - but no one is going to care to find out if this is how you speak. The entire POINT of an online community like this is to express ideas and communicate to each other, and if you use methods that only make yourself ostricized from the rest of the community, you're only wasting your own time. You're not even wasting other people's time, because I'm sure at this point you've hit the ignore list of a decent chunk of the posters around here who are worthy of respect and capable of holding an intelligent conversation.

Zeus - god of not wasting any more of my time either

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And for the record, respect is earned never given.

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Personally, I'm of the belief that basic respect should be given as a matter of course.

"Basic respect" in this case meaning respecting the other person enough to discuss matters with them calmly and rationally, without resorting to personal attacks, and recognizing that the other viewpoint may well be valid, even more valid than one's own. That kind of "basic respect".

But then that's just me.

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Interesting tangent.

Under this premise however, we have an entire thread based around the fact that most of the people here are unhappy with how lighthouse is doing being in charge of forum moderation. It could be said that the respect you refer to here is not being given to him. People... may not respect him. After all, most of this thread is quibbling about HOW things are screwing up, not WHETHER they're screwing up or not. Most people seem to agree... something rotten is in denmark.

So if indeed you do see this thread as a matter of respect, and people either should or should not respect authorities, then I think it's pretty easy to say that this particular authority is not getting the respect that an authority usually relies upon to do his job correctly.

Of course, I don't happen to think it's about respect of an authority, I think it's a matter of methodology, but that's just me.

Zeus - god of respect

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The fact that this thread is STILL going in my opinion makes an absolute mockery of the Rules , specifically this part, which has already been quoted earlier I believe.

"6. Censorship Posts.

All posts referring to message board censorship will be removed."

This thread is directly violating the forum rules and the reds are not only letting it slide, they have posted in it.

Its madness. Madness, I tell you.

Eco.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

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And right now, we've hit the point where this thread should be locked because it's severely derailed.

But if the mods do lock it, are they being efficient and doing the right thing, or stamping on the posting rights of innocent forum goers and ruining the community? Discuss.

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No, they should have locked it a long time ago.

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Everything that can really be said about moderation has been said. Now we're just repeating ourselves because we keep paraphrasing each other in bad ways.

Good times!

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I prefer the broken record scenario myself.

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�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

Learn to adapt. Thats all there is. Everyone was so happy because they could post nearly what they want and it wouldn't matter even though it may not have followed the rules. Now that the rules are more heavily enforced, people lash out that they can't have their "fun" anymore.

Well, why can't I have fun going around exposing myself to people in real life? I mean..its the thrill of the moment, and the old cops didn't care. But now these new cops are getting me everytime I do it but just giving me a slap on the wrist. So I guess I'll try my fun more before they really put me in for good.

Feel free to rip apart my post

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I can be decent. Its just sometimes well..only one life to live, so I can't be nice 100% of the time.

Plus..I could go into detail about myself but I'd rather not publicly on some of the things I've done..its a personal thing.

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Well I'd like to think that everyone is human and has done something not so nice at least once in a lifetime.

We're all going to hell!

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�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

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Learn to adapt. Thats all there is. Everyone was so happy because they could post nearly what they want and it wouldn't matter even though it may not have followed the rules. Now that the rules are more heavily enforced, people lash out that they can't have their "fun" anymore.

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I'd have to go read the whole thread again. But for me, it's not that "fun" posts and such are getting slashed, it's that the ones that are insulting/rude/disgusting and so on aren't getting the boot.

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Well, why can't I have fun going around exposing myself to people in real life? I mean..its the thrill of the moment, and the old cops didn't care. But now these new cops are getting me everytime I do it but just giving me a slap on the wrist. So I guess I'll try my fun more before they really put me in for good.

Feel free to rip apart my post

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So...When do we get the videos of you doing that?

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�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

When I get equality. Which is never

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When I get equality. Which is never

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Well damn!

I was going to sell it on eBay.

*sigh* off to plan B. Getting pics of Zeus in a toga and sandles.

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�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

We are living under the velvet heel of a Mad God. And he's dancin' the discobeat foxtrot to a polka played on the insanitylute of a berserk lunatic.

I'm serious.

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MArcs:

The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)

The rights to what I did are for sale. Free video included

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So if indeed you do see this thread as a matter of respect, and people either should or should not respect authorities, then I think it's pretty easy to say that this particular authority is not getting the respect that an authority usually relies upon to do his job correctly.

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Minor difference with what I meant, actually. What I meant, applied to this scenario, was that people should respect Lighthouse as a person, rather than as authority. I really don't care if authority gets extra helpings of respect or not, but several of the posts made thus far have made ad hominem attacks on Lighthouse, which suggests that this basic human respect is missing, or at least deficient.

I'm posting all this in the full knowledge of the possibility, or rather the probability, that this thread will get deleted for breaking the No Censorship Posts rule. I understand that this thread only exists on the sufferance of the mods who have probably decided that there should be someplace for people to air their grievances, even though the airing of grievances is against the forum rules in the first place.

I do get the feeling that the moment this really goes south into bashing and flaming, this thread is gone.

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Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue

Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~

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So if indeed you do see this thread as a matter of respect, and people either should or should not respect authorities, then I think it's pretty easy to say that this particular authority is not getting the respect that an authority usually relies upon to do his job correctly.

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Minor difference with what I meant, actually. What I meant, applied to this scenario, was that people should respect Lighthouse as a person, rather than as authority. I really don't care if authority gets extra helpings of respect or not, but several of the posts made thus far have made ad hominem attacks on Lighthouse, which suggests that this basic human respect is missing, or at least deficient.

I'm posting all this in the full knowledge of the possibility, or rather the probability, that this thread will get deleted for breaking the No Censorship Posts rule. I understand that this thread only exists on the sufferance of the mods who have probably decided that there should be someplace for people to air their grievances, even though the airing of grievances is against the forum rules in the first place.

I do get the feeling that the moment this really goes south into bashing and flaming, this thread is gone.

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On respect, I'm with you Kellis in that there's different types and levels of respect. There's the respect given to any member of the human race. The respect given to a spouse or trusted friend. The respect given to a mentor.

Now, as far as respecting Lighthouse, I respect him as another human being. That's it. I haven't given him any more respect as an authority figure, it's my belief that people in authority must demonstrate they deserve more respect by how they use their authority. I don't know Lighthouse well enough to do that. In the few pm's I'm traded with him, he strikes me as a very corporate person. Our little community is just that, little and usually friendlier than larger communities.

Look at it like a business. A small business, like a doctor's office with seven employees, after a little while, there's a family feel, everyone knows more about each and work becomes a joy. Now, get a job at Bic, or Briggs Industries. Yeash, steamrolled by corporate policy.

Lighthouse seems like he's still adjusting to our community. I said earlier, give him a little time get accustomed to us.

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Personally, I like Lighthouse, or more correctly, the way he operates. Yes, he tends to be very politically correct, which his job calls for. He also is very nice, straight forward and honest when he doesn't know or like something.

Most importantly he is a moderator, it's his job to lay the smack down, I've read a lot of crap on this site (and posted some too) that really needed to have the smack laid down on it. It's his job, and he still does it in a "nice" way.

Kudos to you man.

He also seems like a cool guy, and this isn't about kissin his azz, cuz I just don't care one way or another if he likes me back.

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The fact that this thread is STILL going in my opinion makes an absolute mockery of the Rules , specifically this part, which has already been quoted earlier I believe.

"6. Censorship Posts.

All posts referring to message board censorship will be removed."

This thread is directly violating the forum rules and the reds are not only letting it slide, they have posted in it.

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I think you’d have to misinterpret both this thread, and that particular rule, to think it applies to this thread in particular. This isn’t a thread about censorship. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if this is the first time the word “censorship” was used at all in the entire thread. It’s a thread about many things… styles of moderation, what people prefer and don’t prefer, whether or not people are happy with current personalities and whether or not people are disgruntled about the new trends that seem to be hitting the board. Censorship? Not even in discussion.

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Learn to adapt. Thats all there is. Everyone was so happy because they could post nearly what they want and it wouldn't matter even though it may not have followed the rules. Now that the rules are more heavily enforced, people lash out that they can't have their "fun" anymore.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh come on.. clearly you know better than to say something this obtuse. No one is saying anything close to that and we all know it. No one is saying “I used to be able to post anything”. First of all, no one ever WAS able to post just about everything. Even in its most lax days, (right after cuppa left) this board was still the most heavily moderated board I’ve ever seen. Things like “I quit” posts and flaming insults were never tolerated, at all. This board has always been kept to a very high standard. Secondly, no one is even saying they WANT to go back to how it was after cuppa left, and when the boards were at their most lax. From what I can tell, people want to go back to how it was when cuppa was here, when rules were enforced, the boards were kept civil, and yet at the same time you could actually guess as to whether or not a post would be deleted long before you hit the “submit” button.

I give this particular argument an F.

Zeus – god of correction

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I think you’d have to misinterpret both this thread, and that particular rule, to think it applies to this thread in particular. This isn’t a thread about censorship. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if this is the first time the word “censorship” was used at all in the entire thread. It’s a thread about many things… styles of moderation, what people prefer and don’t prefer, whether or not people are happy with current personalities and whether or not people are disgruntled about the new trends that seem to be hitting the board. Censorship? Not even in discussion.

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I'd have to disagree here. The word "censorship" does not have to be used for a thread to be about censorship.

Now, there is the obvious disclaimer that this is entirely subjective interpretation. But the following passage from the OP seems to refer to board censorship of rants (which are also against the board rules):

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More and more discussions/rants are being closed down by Lighthouse. I realize he is the Community Relations go-to person, but in trying to establish his unique presence in that role, I feel he has gone a bit too far at times, more than not.

I cringe everytime I see his name in a discussion. Maybe I am not very sensitive to people's feelings but Lighthouse seems to be politically correct to the extreme. Someone could use the word "butthead" in a post and he will close it down. Have we become such a community that we cannot tolerate even minor rants and dissenting responses?

I wonder how many respones this will generate before Lighthouse closes this thread down.

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Moderation is related to censorship, in a way. It's about a specific variety of censorship that may be codified in the rules, and is used to (theoretically) keep things running smoothly. The mods delete rant or "I'm leaving" threads because those threads violate the forum rules; in other words, they censor them.

I would argue that the rule in question applies in this case, as this thread is about board moderation, and that rule is, semantics aside, about threads referencing board moderation. Now, whether this thread will get deleted/locked or otherwise is up to the mods, but from a strict following of the rule, it is against that rule.

EDIT: In addition, there is also the rest of that rule:

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No personal attacks against forum moderators. If you disagree with an action taken by a moderator, you can send your complaint via PM to the moderator or go to http://support.plaync.com and submit your issue to us via the “Ask a Question” tab.

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I seem to remember several posts in this thread making personal attacks against Lighthouse (whether blatant or subtle), or against the "Moderator#" mods.

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Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue

Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~

DrZeus, you're so awesome. Thanks for the grade.

I think I should change my Forum Name and Avatar to yours. You're the bestest.

I grade my post a C. for crap

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if you read all my posts, you would see I was using the lampooning of his moniker as a method to prove a point.

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Your point failed. And pretty badly. You see, there are several ways to make a point. Some of them are better than others, and some have more side effects than others. You compare posts to important topics, such as nuremburg trials.

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Well Zeus, you missed it again. I never once compared any post to the nuremburg trials. READ THE WHOLE POST! I was talking about my being called anti-authority. Sometimes anti-authority is a good thing. They could have used some of them in Germany during WWII. I am sure quite a number of people feel the current administration could use a few more people willing to go against the party line. This has NOTHING to do with posting. But thanks for showing us your inablity to read a complete post.

And my original point Zeus, god of blunder, is that by engaging in name calling and openly breaking a forum rule, IE doing EXACTLY what should get a post yanked or a thread locked, did NOT in fact have any impact on this thread. Bringing up ... AGAIN my POINT that moderation is inconsistent and THAT is my problem with Lighthouse. Part of his job is to ensure the moderators are on the same page. He isn't. He should.

So are we clear now? or did you just skip that paragraph?

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Learn to adapt. Thats all there is. Everyone was so happy because they could post nearly what they want and it wouldn't matter even though it may not have followed the rules. Now that the rules are more heavily enforced, people lash out that they can't have their "fun" anymore.

Well, why can't I have fun going around exposing myself to people in real life? I mean..its the thrill of the moment, and the old cops didn't care. But now these new cops are getting me everytime I do it but just giving me a slap on the wrist. So I guess I'll try my fun more before they really put me in for good.

Feel free to rip apart my post

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Watch out! now you will be accused of comparing posting to sexual perversions!

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And my original point Zeus, god of blunder, is that by engaging in name calling and openly breaking a forum rule, IE doing EXACTLY what should get a post yanked or a thread locked, did NOT in fact have any impact on this thread. Bringing up ... AGAIN my POINT that moderation is inconsistent and THAT is my problem with Lighthouse. Part of his job is to ensure the moderators are on the same page. He isn't. He should.

So are we clear now? or did you just skip that paragraph?

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One possible factor to consider is that we are pretty certain that the mods are aware of this whole thread in general, and this thread, by its very nature, violates the forum rules, but this thread still exists.

That suggests that the "rules" are placed in discretionary abeyance, at least for the moment.

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Current main:
Schrodinger's Gun, Dual Pistols/Mental Blaster, Virtue

Avatar: Becky Miyamoto from Pani Poni Dash. Roulette roulette~

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The rights to what I did are for sale. Free video included

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I demand a freebie flashing Uplink! Complete with video!

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�Alas, regardless of their doom, the little victims play!� - Thomas Gray

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The rights to what I did are for sale. Free video included

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I demand a freebie flashing Uplink! Complete with video!

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Shouldn't you provide uplink a video first? C'mon hexgirl on youtube! Who wants to sign that petition?

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