Official Thread: Travel Power Changes
By
absinthe182,
Posted on: 2006-11-14 20:49 in Developers' Corner
I mentioned this on Test, but couldn't quite confirm it in that environment, but now on Live in "normal" gameplay situations, I can say for certain - Fly's suppressed speed is too slow. The power description says it suppresses to Hover speed. In practice, it may as well have me immobilized. It's not moving at the new-and-improved-Hover speed.
Not to come here just to complain, let me also give a big /em ThumbsUp for the boost to Hover. My characters with 3-slotted Hover and a Fly Speed in Swift are seeing a HUGE boost in Hover speed when all that buffing multiplies the 10%. I like it.
Did the new Flight animations get scrubbed?
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Did the new Flight animations get scrubbed?
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For now. They're working on dealing with some camera bugs related to the poses, as well as making the poses selectable. They'll be back at an unknown date in the future.
Okay, that makes sense to me.
(Or as I said online just now, I'm guessing it'll be live by the time I get to change my character into a belly shirt - which won't be that long anyways.)
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70 toons across 11 servers.
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Most of the animations look great and the shorter animations for some powers is great too... however...
The animation for Superspeed is really bright and busy. This makes it sort of hard to see especially when on the downward arc of a jump.
The "fountain" effect is nice if you have to look at it once in a while however seeing it pulsate with each step of your character is a bit much. It seems my screen is more often dominated by the visual effects of superspeed than anything else.
I'd love to see the FX with Superspeed only be on when you're moving, too. Seems odd to have the 'firey feet' when you're standing still. (sorry for the off-topic post)
I like the new hover as well, at level 14 and it slotted with only a single 15DO fly it is actualy usable in Mishes to move from level to level without feeling like your crawling or eating up a ton of time.
The veteran sprints? do we have to reslot whichever one/ones we decides to use with enhancments???
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The veteran sprints? do we have to reslot whichever one/ones we decides to use with enhancments???
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Yes; they're separate powers, so they take separate enhancements.
At this point I've had every single travel power to date. I personally think the fly is cool 
....but it wouldn't hurt to perhaps make it a bit faster. I was watching Superman and you see him fly with more urgency, and I began thinking...I don't do that 
lol
I'm really happy that you've increased the speed of hover, it helps alot in mission when trying to get a bit closer to the next enemy.
As a side question: I heard that you don't need to slot Fly all the way to get the full speed out of it, how many slots can I give it and how many SOs can I give to make it full speed?
3 slotted with 3 SO's gives you about the maximum flight speed. Once you go more that 3 SO's you hit the ED penalties, this makes it wasteful to put more than 3 in fly. You move pretty well this way.
Could we get a fix so that when you press the follow target key while hovering you don't stop short of melee range? Follow target is a critical part of the melee arsenal, and with hover looking more and more viable in close range combat, fixing this would ba a major QoL improvment.
...along with follow not sometimes droping to a crawl -again outside of melee range- when the trget happens to be moving slowly.
All the travel powers are pretty easy to use, teleport may take a wee bit of practice, but still easy to get where you need to go. But Superspeed doesnt have any vertical movement. You go at amazing speeds on the ground, but you see a wall or a kinda tall crate and *BAM* you're stuck and gotta ind another path. I figured maybe it'd be interesting to give SS wall running capabilities, or atleast the ability to run straight up walls and hop over.
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. . . it'd be interesting to give SS wall running capabilities, or atleast the ability to run straight up walls and hop over.
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/signed. This was one of the most disappointing aspects of SS when I first took it, no wall running or water running capabilities. Unfortunately, I can't think of an easy way to incorporate this. You wouldn't want wall running active at all times (it'd be pretty ridiculous to wall run every curb or stair you came across), so it'd have to be a toggleable ability, which would probably require 2 separate buttons for a single power or ditching one of the lesser used SS powers, like Flurry or Whirlwind (although I could see and understand that doing so would piss off some players). Still, if they could be implemented well, wall running and water running would be welcome additions to a sometimes frustrating power.
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Because it is not possible, per the Devs, with the current game engine.
On topic, please tone the effect of Superspeed back down some. The gigantic spikes of light with each step are too much. The previous Superspeed (or even the one before that) was a lot easier on the eyes than this version.
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
I like the new SS glow, but wish it would suppress while I'm not moving... like sprint does for example.
Similarly, the new prestige sprints need to have the same changes made to spint to get the dust to supress while not on the ground.
Im a bit upset about taking out the fly emotes. I have test which I never go on, so I never got to use it. Saw my cousin doing it though and it was so cool. I almost cried when it was taken out. Oh well, ill get over it =) Also what seems to me like a good idea for Super Speed vertical movement is make some places like a antural ramp, kind of like in the Tony Hawk games, and make it so that you run up it and go flying through the air for a short while. It would be complicated to add in, but game developers are so darn smart =) Also, im very happy about the hover speed increase. Now to add the same element to fly and ill be overjoyed.
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Also what seems to me like a good idea for Super Speed vertical movement is make some places like a antural ramp, kind of like in the Tony Hawk games, and make it so that you run up it and go flying through the air for a short while. It would be complicated to add in, but game developers are so darn smart =)
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Not possible with the current game engine.
*points up in the thread*
"A good Defender is the battle hardened Corpsman who will kill a Nazi with a tongue depressor while putting a splint on your leg, then hand you a fresh clip of ammo." ~Jock_Thompson
Repeat Offenders, TNT Profile, My little hero
Any chance of putting the Defence Buff back into Hasten?
Only thing I am worried about is making flight too fast. Yes, I said it. Do not make flight faster than what it is.
They had a simple concept in the begining with all the movement powers balanced based on speed of movement and the flexibility of the movement.
SS gives you little vert , as it does give you a bonus to your jump height, but gives you a stealth bonus and is great in a mission with tunnels. End cost is little to none.
SJ is a great movement power, but is un-usable in most missions. Has 2 great powers in it (Acrobatics and CJ) and cost little to no end.
TP is the fastest movement power in the game, but has limited short range use. It is also limited in most missions as a form of movement. It does have a high End usage.
Flight is the most useful movement power as it is the most flexible. You can go /anywhere/ with flight. You can use it inside any mission. You can just hit 'r' and walk away and travel a zone. You can attack with it as if you had hover. End cost is moderate to high.
Now people want it even faster? Get serious and think of balance. You make flight faster and you take away the only draw-back to it. Only reason why I think 85% of the game takes TP or SS is for concept or to save power slots after they took Hasten or TP Friend. Now with wings, even more people will be taking flight. I think the Devs need to look at the other movement powers and come up with ways to make them more desirerable to take over flight.
Besides the first question, the rest is my 2 cents.
Oh sure. Now you force me to actually make a choice between air superiority and hover. I hate choices. I, for one, am getting sick and tired of the Dev's always giving me more for my money, and constantly improving my gameplay experience. If this quality of life continues, I'll have no choice but to quit the game and go somewhere else where I'll be abused and ignored.
Thanks Dev's!
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Only thing I am worried about is making flight too fast. Yes, I said it. Do not make flight faster than what it is.
They had a simple concept in the begining with all the movement powers balanced based on speed of movement and the flexibility of the movement.
SS gives you little vert , as it does give you a bonus to your jump height, but gives you a stealth bonus and is great in a mission with tunnels. End cost is little to none.
SJ is a great movement power, but is un-usable in most missions. Has 2 great powers in it (Acrobatics and CJ) and cost little to no end.
TP is the fastest movement power in the game, but has limited short range use. It is also limited in most missions as a form of movement. It does have a high End usage.
Flight is the most useful movement power as it is the most flexible. You can go /anywhere/ with flight. You can use it inside any mission. You can just hit 'r' and walk away and travel a zone. You can attack with it as if you had hover. End cost is moderate to high.
Now people want it even faster? Get serious and think of balance. You make flight faster and you take away the only draw-back to it. Only reason why I think 85% of the game takes TP or SS is for concept or to save power slots after they took Hasten or TP Friend. Now with wings, even more people will be taking flight. I think the Devs need to look at the other movement powers and come up with ways to make them more desirerable to take over flight.
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I would definitely not be in favor of slowing flight down from where it is, since all of my toons fly. I think adding the fly speed enh option to Swift was great for flyers, as was the end reduction to fly. If it doesn't get faster than it is now, I'm OK with that, but don't make it slower.
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Bloody hell. The reason they're all there is that they're the archetypical hero powers. Most heroes fly. the Flash runs really really fast. the Super Mario brothers jump. Spidey jumps (it's the closest thing he does to the AT powers, but he's a special case.) I think the Punisher just has sprint.
Most heroes, however, tend to fly.
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Any chance of putting the Defence Buff back into Hasten?
Only thing I am worried about is making flight too fast. Yes, I said it. Do not make flight faster than what it is.
They had a simple concept in the begining with all the movement powers balanced based on speed of movement and the flexibility of the movement.
SS gives you little vert , as it does give you a bonus to your jump height, but gives you a stealth bonus and is great in a mission with tunnels. End cost is little to none.
SJ is a great movement power, but is un-usable in most missions. Has 2 great powers in it (Acrobatics and CJ) and cost little to no end.
TP is the fastest movement power in the game, but has limited short range use. It is also limited in most missions as a form of movement. It does have a high End usage.
Flight is the most useful movement power as it is the most flexible. You can go /anywhere/ with flight. You can use it inside any mission. You can just hit 'r' and walk away and travel a zone. You can attack with it as if you had hover. End cost is moderate to high.
Now people want it even faster? Get serious and think of balance. You make flight faster and you take away the only draw-back to it. Only reason why I think 85% of the game takes TP or SS is for concept or to save power slots after they took Hasten or TP Friend. Now with wings, even more people will be taking flight. I think the Devs need to look at the other movement powers and come up with ways to make them more desirerable to take over flight.
Besides the first question, the rest is my 2 cents.
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Empathik,
Coming from my personal knowledge of game design, your statement is somewhat flawed. Fly is *the* most useless power in the game at current, aside from the PvP aspects. Being the hands down slowest, it also is the only movement power that suffers from a massive ammount of -fly.
Being a tanker, I see that in PvP all the time, people with Speed and Jump run circles around me, normally in and out before I can retaliate. Others can just easily take my flight away as well.
As for Super Jump not being useful in missions, this is a lie. Yes, an outright untruth. I have SJ on a character and SJ is just about as useful as flight is in missions.
(note: Save for tam missions)
Right now the fact is this is the current state of fly:
Unlimited Vert. Movement
Slowest travel speed
2nd Highest Endurance Cost
Highest percentage of powers that can cancel flight
Flight should be faster than Super Jump, In exchange SJ gives access to defensive abilities. SJ is nearly free in endurance cost and gives many of the more practical flight abilities.
Flight speed needs to be increased. Simple as that. Going on a speed chart this is how they *should* be arranged:
Teleport
Super Speed
Flight
Super Jump
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Could we get a fix so that when you press the follow target key while hovering you don't stop short of melee range? Follow target is a critical part of the melee arsenal, and with hover looking more and more viable in close range combat, fixing this would ba a major QoL improvment.
...along with follow not sometimes droping to a crawl -again outside of melee range- when the trget happens to be moving slowly.
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Agreed! My sig has been waving the "fix hover" flag for some time now
Overall I like all of the travel powers well enough but Hover needs that fix and also I think Teleport needs fixing in two ways:
Reduce endurance cost by 25%
Allow teleport to any surface. Vertical and hoverhanging surfaces usually get the red bullseye of doom and that makes tp within missions very difficult to use. If it is a matter of imbeding people's heads in ceilings, just change the tp distance for those questionable surfaces so you come up a couple yards short of the actual target.
You forgot some other important comparisons:
in PvP SJ is the one and only.
Flight: requires 2-3 slots for maximum usage.
Can use a HO to alleviate xtra slots while capping travel speed/reducing end cost
No travel trouble in any zone
Has a useful final power in the set
Super Speed: is one of the fastest powers in the game, requries no slotting to be effective
Can use a HO to alleviate xtra slots while capping travel speed/reducing end cost
Some trouble in St. Martial, the OLD Faultline, Terra Volta, and Grandville. Massive trouble in the Shadow Shard.
Has a debatably useful final power in the set
Super Jump: Most cost effective travel power in the game.
low end cost, high speed rate of travel in ALL zones(except Shadow Shard). Few things supress the travel power in PvP making it pretty much mandatory on all "good" builds. Can most definatly be used in missions. Needs NO slotting. Is almost unaffected by -Speed powers in PvP(this needs to be altered entirely).
Has an incredibly useful final power in the set.
Can use a HO to alleviate xtra slots while capping travel speed/reducing end cost
Teleport: REQUIRES 2-4 slots to be truly effective.
Is -not- the fastest travel power in the game due to actual "real life" applications of this power.
Has MASSIVE targeting issues that cause delayed jumps and many times falls for people without Hover(forcing 3 powers to be taken, not just the normal 2) which results in lots of debt.
Can NOT use a HO to alleviate xtra slots while capping travel speed/reducing end cost(btw, the MOST slot intensive and potentially highest power cost;3 for hover, in the game and the HO's don't benefit it... THANKS alot).
Does have trouble with long distance travel(massive end cost and too short hops[for PvE])
Does have trouble with high rise enviroments: Need to expound on this some. Big tall buildings forming a canyon like say, Grandville. Your mission is on the other side. You either have to TP clear up over the top of the buliding, or TP clear around. If you try to TP between with all that webbing and other junk, you have to have hover or play fast fingers because if you get the Red Circle of Doom, down you fall.
While TPing I don't drop to -my- hover speed, even if I have hover activated, I drop to -it's- hover speed.
Final Power is also weak sauce: Requires 2-4 slots AGAIN to make it useful, has an even LOWER range(thanks AGAIN, PvP) with higher end cost. Disconnects people who have poor connection quality. Is POINTLESS 99% of the time when TP + Recall Friend will get the entire team there faster than GTP could ever HOPE to achieve. The power drops people(haven't used it enough since I8 to voice an opinion here other than go-go-slows! Disrupt that GTP window) and thus requires 3 other power choices and an immense end drain + slotting drain to make this a -viable- travel power(GFly 2-3 slots of end redux).
Not all things make this a bad power choice. Ever seen it used to gank people in PvP? It's a wonderful power for abusivly slaughtering people over and over again. GTP yourself(the buffbot) and 7 buffed out the ear Stalkers into the middle of a group, watch 7 AS's go off and GTP away, completely unfollowable. How about 7 Corr's? Go-Go-Gankers! Hopefully people will (ab)use this power so much that it will force the Dev's to alter how it works, making it useful for PvE again. It's not like their hasn't been a thousand and one suggestions on how to improve this power in the 2-3 years CoX has been around.
Yes, I'm a Negative Nancy, but darn it, I got good reason to be. I had a "Genie" type toon who's whole entire deal was she cast travel powers or other oddball buff. She didn't really fight on her own (Kin/Elec Def with magic "sparky ball!" ftw). 6 slotted teleports pre-ED. Using GTP 2 end, 4 range, I could arrive last at a mission with a couple folks who opted to gather for GTP instead of running, skipping, flying to the mission themselves. I would arrive last only by a small margin, depending on a few variables(different zone would totally nerf GTP's usefullness), difficulty of targetting(Talos vrs say, Founders or Eden). With GTP being dropped down by ED and THEN nerf'd AGAIN by the Range enhancement nerf, GTP has taken a deathblow of usefullness. Add to that the sudden added "feature" of an incredibly picky targeting reticle and voila! COMPLETE Lameness.
I GTP now at about 1/3 of the distance for the same end cost and the only discernable reason is... Teleport allowed too many hit and run tactics in PvP. It's not like people were RUSHING to buy Teleport for PvE purposes...
If anything needs a fixing first, it's the TP Targetting reticle. Second, it's a complete stripping of the old GTP and putting in something that is non-abusive for PvP but actually USEFUL for PvE(Do I hear a 15 minute rechrg 85 end cost group in close proximity ZONE Teleport? How about a 500 yrd base travel distance with 1 minute cool down? How about just a wide area recall friend?)
$0.04... cause I care.
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Champion
This thread is for discussion involving Issue 8 Travel Power Changes.
Please play before you post! Try out the new things and see them for your self in-game before posting. Thanks!
Issue 8 Patch Notes
· Increased the base flight speed of Hover by 10%.
· Added a slight delay to the usage of Team Teleport. This should alleviate the issue of Teammates randomly being left behind after a Teleport.
· Fixed some animation issues with the Jump Jet Pack power granted from the Good vs. Evil Edition.
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