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After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta.
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Odd. I don't know about anyone else, but I know that I didn't have these problems, whatsoever, until the Placate (toned down to stealth level -perception) and Dull Pain (no longer allowing a DPed Stalker to stay in Hidden while being attacked) changes came along.
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Too bad the devs only seem to use mass statistics to measure performance. Having the dummy killer AT marked as best performing is very discouraging.
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Honestly, though. What percentage of players aren't dummies? Not good (there's probably not even 100 of those) but the type who know just enough not to get ganked by stalkers. In my experience (granted, Virtue, but it's still a 'high-pop' server) it's about 10%. So though there are certainly powerset/AT combos that are far deadlier than stalkers in the right hands, it hardly matters when 9 out of every 10 villains in SC is a stalker and they're getting easy kills off most everybody.
Using actual play is the only way to balance high-end pvp... but how many high-end pvpers are there? So I'd say using statistics to measure comparative AT performance isn't such a terrible idea. It gives an idea of what's happening down there. Yeah, rad/psys in RV can 3-shot or 4-shot squishies (and there's almost nothing you can do about it) and /rad trollers are just vicious solo PVP toons at higher levels, and depending on the corr they can be vicious solo or teamed... but how common are they compared to stalkers and scrappers and blasters in average pvp? Heck, in average PVP most people don't even team.
Honestly, I think it's ridiculous this doesn't have a higher priority.
Point taken that Stalkers can still do fine in PvP, but its the principal of finding a bug and it getting a backseat even though some builds don't have to deal with it (Especially since this power appears in EVERY attack set and is practically ESSENTIAL to the AT).
I mean, it affects most of the attack sets, but not some, so it's like an unfair tilted favor to certain sets (EM, the pet attack pool of the Devs I guess...). I don't see how a bug that affects most attack sets for Stalkers, that DEFINETLY handicaps them in PvP, can't be given higher priority than "We'll get around to it if we feel like it, maybe."
I can deal with the Placate issue on my Stalker, but that doesn't mean that certain sets getting a better go-around at PvP than my choice in attack sets is fun, or fair.
I call shananigans until either
a) Placate is handicapped for all sets for X amount of seconds after ANY attack.
or
b) Placate doesn't break with side effects.
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After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta.
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Odd. I don't know about anyone else, but I know that I didn't have these problems, whatsoever, until the Placate (toned down to stealth level -perception) and Dull Pain (no longer allowing a DPed Stalker to stay in Hidden while being attacked) changes came along.
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QFT
i PvPed all the time with my MA/Nin while he was around, and never once did having a status effect on a foe effect Placate's *intended* ability. it wasn't until Placate received it's nerf that this became a problem. point blank, a staple power for an entire AT (not just 1 set) is broken, but it's not important enough to fix. against a player with any skill at all, it's very tough to sneak up on someone to get an AS off in zone or arena combat b/c of all the ways to add perception. this makes me not even wanna play my spines/regen anymore...never thought i'd complain about Impale's Immob lasting too long...
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I'm guessing you don't get it. It's not knockback. It's -def. I proved this when Sting of the Wasp caused the Placate bug to occur. And when Divine Avalanche failed to cause the Placate bug. And the slows from Spines cause the bug too.
But yes, I am an impatient Stalker. When I stab a regen, I follow up. If he heals in time, I'm going to eventually want to Placate. NOT run off so his heals can recharge.
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Actually I do get it, I don't think you're taking everything I'm saying in, I tend to rant. My point about KB was that it's not even a auto hit type deal, same thing w/ that ranged Spines attack that 'may' immobilize an enemy, almost a waste of time.
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Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug. It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
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So if Stalkers want their B&B tool fixed, they need to start taking dives during fights in PvP zones for the next few months.
Got it.
PenanceжTriage
Stalkers are #1 in PvP because they are the only AT that can "finish" the fight... which ends up with alot of Brutes getting KS'ed for their trouble. It's not because Stalkers are overpowered, it is that they are oppourtunists.
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After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta.
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Odd. I don't know about anyone else, but I know that I didn't have these problems, whatsoever, until the Placate (toned down to stealth level -perception) and Dull Pain (no longer allowing a DPed Stalker to stay in Hidden while being attacked) changes came along.
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Neither did i. I used to be able to duel regens and end with placate buildup and AS...
Could it be that we are not understanding one another? This bug certainly didn't exist before then, and as a spines player i feel my opinion should be credible since i'd already have to wait for DoT.
Another thing about stalkers being #1, i'm sure they are #1 up until heroes decide to team up, like they will because of stalkers. Then things depend largely on who's playing, but heroes still have a big advantage assuming player skill is even in RV.
Stalkers in RV?? Not number 1, but nowhere near underpowered. Placate bug? Doesn't gimp the AT, but any bugged power should be fixed whenever possible in my opinion.
maybe if they fixed the bug that allowed stalkers to AS through quicksand and other debuffs that use to interrupt it, they wouldnt need to leave this bug in the game as a "balance" fix.
So either way we need to sacrifice one thing we NEED in our build....
I hope that's not the reasoning because it's not as if alot of ice tanks are fearing AS, neither are heroes who move and team.
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After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta. At that time, we decided to watch the PvP data and see if it proved a problem. Stalkers are not doing poorly in PvP at any level range.
Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug. It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
Third, there is a workaround for this issue. I'm certain you all can figure out what it is, if you don't already know.
Just to reiterate on Placates mechanics:
Placate, the power has two portions: Placate (the effect) and a Hide equivalent.
Any attack or effect on the original target will break the Placate, but not the hide -- only a new attack on any target breaks that.
In PvE, we've made the AI ignore Effects when placated, so the AI still ignores you (most of the time.)
Placate is a tool. It is a powerful tool, but it has limitations. Learning those limitations and how to work around them is a large part of gameplay for Stalkers.
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1. I appreciate the prompt response on this, and the fact that you are keeping the lines of communication open.
2. I'm glad this is recognized as a bug, rather than being told that it is working as intended.
3. The fact that this bug, which has very serious PvP functionality implications, has no ETA for a fix has me really, truly pissed about the game for the first time since I4. Perhaps I should reroll as EM so I can kill squishies outside of hide...
4. Workarounds... a) Reroll as Claws. b) Wait for any effects to wear off before Placating. This is impractical, since those effects last quite a few seconds - my target would be gone. c) Placate my target's buddy, who is also trying to attack me. This seems like the best option if there are multiple enemies around. Placate won't work on the enemy I've attacked already, so I might as well use it on someone else. If I'm fast enough, I can still get a crit on the next attack against my target.
Fixing brute fury also has no eta, but it also has a very big effect.
The OP wasn't 100% clear, but it sound like you're basically saying that if the target of a placate is already being affected by a status affect from a previous attack, then the placate gets nullified. Correct?
That sounds like (for the game at least) it's working as it should be. Since placate gets dropped on the target whenever a stalker attacks their target before placate wears then it is also nullified. So by having a status affect they are (for the game) still under attack by an affect of the stalker, so of course placate isn't going to stay on the target. Whether or not the devs want this to happen or intend for this to happen is a different matter.
I, for one, think the Devs should fix this bug immediatly!
Then, once Stalkers become even more powerful in PvP, I, for one, will then demand that they be nerfed accordingly.
(I kid, I kid!)
But seriously, Stalkers are doing fiiiine in PvP, I can understand this bug being a low priority.
There are more pressing PvP bugs, Brute Fury being totally borked for one.
Thank you for identifying and clearly explaining what the issue is. Now we can adapt to it and deal with it until it is fixed.
Stop attacking for 5-10 sec. Let the secondary effect wear off then Placate.
It is low priority because it has such limited impact on the game as a whole, and there is an easy workaround. All the ranting and whining about how crippled this makes us is amusing.
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It is low priority because it has such limited impact on the game as a whole, and there is an easy workaround. All the ranting and whining about how crippled this makes us is amusing.
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Well it doesn't cripple us, but the whole idea of the Stalker is attacking from a non-targettable enviornment. Hence the incredibly terrible melee Health (on par with Controllers!) strong presence of Defense sets, High AoE Defense on Hide, and the Assassination passive (which is more than likely the whole reason Stalker's Brawl index is so crappy) to strike from Hide or the *occasional* mez. I stress ocassional 'cause of the low Dom count in PvP.
If a Stalker can't strike from this position, the numbers aren't too good.
1) Lower melee damage than Blasters or Scrappers, and at times Brutes (depending)
2) Lower Health than Blasters, Scrappers, and Brutes
3) A "work-around" that involves retreating for 15 odd seconds, while your target recovers in whatever way they can, and otherwise breaks up any typical form of PvP.
Yeah, Stalker's aren't crippled, but why even bother playing if you can't do it the way intended, ESPECIALLY if certain power pools ignored the bug afflicting you? Would you want to play a Scrapper who has crappy Health, and has a permanent damage debuff of 20%, save for his ONE good leading attack while the rest of the Scrappers around you play without a handicap?
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Yeah, Stalker's aren't crippled, but why even bother playing if you can't do it the way intended, ESPECIALLY if certain power pools ignored the bug afflicting you? Would you want to play a Scrapper who has crappy Health, and has a permanent damage debuff of 20%, save for his ONE good leading attack while the rest of the Scrappers around you play without a handicap?
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So where do I take my complaint about this -regen bug that is a crippling 90% while all other -defense -resistance -acc etc etc usually are around 5-20%.
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It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
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Haven't we been repeatedly told that the AT we THINK is the best at PvP isn't really the best according to the numbers?
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Yes.
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Now I'm confused.
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Me too.
Interesting. I always waited a few secs before attacking after a placate. That's the only time it seems to work.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta. At that time, we decided to watch the PvP data and see if it proved a problem. Stalkers are not doing poorly in PvP at any level range.
Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug. It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
Third, there is a workaround for this issue. I'm certain you all can figure out what it is, if you don't already know.
Just to reiterate on Placates mechanics:
Placate, the power has two portions: Placate (the effect) and a Hide equivalent.
Any attack or effect on the original target will break the Placate, but not the hide -- only a new attack on any target breaks that.
In PvE, we've made the AI ignore Effects when placated, so the AI still ignores you (most of the time.)
Placate is a tool. It is a powerful tool, but it has limitations. Learning those limitations and how to work around them is a large part of gameplay for Stalkers.
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Thank you _Castle_, this is exactly what I wanted, an answer- "Yes, it's bugged, it's low priority so not gonna get fixed anytime soon" Above and beyond an honest answer, and frankly more than what was expected. Thanx for taking the time to address this.
"I'm not scared of anyone or anything Angie. Isn't that the way life should be?"
Jack Hawksmoor, The Authority.
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Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug.
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Wait. You only have one programmer working on this game?
If that's not a typo, I'm seriously, honestly impressed.
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Programmers are usually assigned specific areas to work on, I'm guessing there's one person currently assigned that would cover that section of code.
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I stress ocassional 'cause of the low Dom count in PvP.
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Blame all the stalkers that choose to follow us and KS rather than group. I'd be in PVP with my Dom more often then. Hell, my main Dom even has Grant Invis just to enable Stalkers, but getting them to group is far worse than pulling your own teeth.
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After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta. At that time, we decided to watch the PvP data and see if it proved a problem. Stalkers are not doing poorly in PvP at any level range.
Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug. It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
Third, there is a workaround for this issue. I'm certain you all can figure out what it is, if you don't already know.
Just to reiterate on Placates mechanics:
Placate, the power has two portions: Placate (the effect) and a Hide equivalent.
Any attack or effect on the original target will break the Placate, but not the hide -- only a new attack on any target breaks that.
In PvE, we've made the AI ignore Effects when placated, so the AI still ignores you (most of the time.)
Placate is a tool. It is a powerful tool, but it has limitations. Learning those limitations and how to work around them is a large part of gameplay for Stalkers.
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Since its set at a low priority, any ideas to when it will be fixed?
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Stalkers are not doing poorly in PvP at any level range.
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My personal experience says otherwise. Any player that has done much team play learns that corruptors are a requirement for a good PvP team. Stalkers tend to be very binary in their function (they rock or they get rocked) and they work much better in zones than in arena.
I guess I'm surprised that corruptors aren't the most successful PvP AT.
So, don't slot for secondary effects on stalkers until this is fixed I suppose. 
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Lastly don't you find it amazing that one of the main tools for the Stalker being broken they're still number 1?
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/e shhhhh
Dude this is the STALKER forum.
Let me just say for the record that I can think of no more horrid a situation then this calamity that has befallen the Stalker community. I highly recommend bitter arguments that all datamining results are "skewed" and killing anyone with less then a 200 rep should not count at all in the data. I would continue with arguments that culling open pvp zones of "noobs" is what Stalkers are meant to do and thus are in fact cementing the belief that PVE is where the majority of the City of community should spend their time.
Thus your battle cry should be "Stalkers with Placate make content better!"
This will certainly move the bug up to priority status.
/e bow