Who will be the first sg to dominate test with stalkers? =D
The the stalker arms race begin!
[ QUOTE ]
So this was observed in beta- that would have covered Bloody Bay, a little in Siren's, and a probably a small few in Warburg. But have you guys looked at PVP and Stalkers in Recluse's Victory where the tables are certainly more different than Siren's or Warburg? I mean, PVP in RV didn't exist in beta, and it also wasn't on the test server for very long.
[/ QUOTE ]
For one thing, they do have internal play testers. So it may have not been publically tested for beta by the players on all levels but it certainly would have been internally. Secondly, the devs said Stalkers are #1 in PvP... they didn't say Stalkers are #1 in PvP in lower level zones, they said #1. Thats to say, they overall perform better in their kill to death ratio than any other AT. So for the sake of one zone where they have to make an effort I'd say they're still on top from what the devs said there.
Lastly don't you find it amazing that one of the main tools for the Stalker being broken they're still number 1?
[ QUOTE ]
After numerous PMs, I figure I should address this.
First, we know about this. It was noted as happening during Beta. At that time, we decided to watch the PvP data and see if it proved a problem. Stalkers are not doing poorly in PvP at any level range.
Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug. It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
Third, there is a workaround for this issue. I'm certain you all can figure out what it is, if you don't already know.
Just to reiterate on Placates mechanics:
Placate, the power has two portions: Placate (the effect) and a Hide equivalent.
Any attack or effect on the original target will break the Placate, but not the hide -- only a new attack on any target breaks that.
In PvE, we've made the AI ignore Effects when placated, so the AI still ignores you (most of the time.)
Placate is a tool. It is a powerful tool, but it has limitations. Learning those limitations and how to work around them is a large part of gameplay for Stalkers.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to say.. I'm quite shocked. Placate is now a lot more useless. In RV, Stalkers are hardly the best. Kill to Death ratios mean that Stalkers repeatedly ganked some lone squishy.
I'm guessing the limitation is "Use only after AS".
Oh well, thanks for posting, Castle. At least it has -some- priority, if a low one.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
[ QUOTE ]
It is low priority, however, since Stalkers are still the best in PvP according to our data. As such, there is no ETA for a fix.
[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't we been repeatedly told that the AT we THINK is the best at PvP isn't really the best according to the numbers? And wasn't this usually when people were complaining about Stalkers?
Now I'm confused.
Too bad the devs only seem to use mass statistics to measure performance. Having the dummy killer AT marked as best performing is very discouraging.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
[ QUOTE ]
I have to say.. I'm quite shocked. Placate is now a lot more useless. In RV, Stalkers are hardly the best. Kill to Death ratios mean that Stalkers repeatedly ganked some lone squishy.
I'm guessing the limitation is "Use only after AS".
Oh well, thanks for posting, Castle. At least it has -some- priority, if a low one.
[/ QUOTE ]
You fool!
Ganking some lone squishy who is not paying attention and doesn't know that travel powers counter AS, and that break frees counter stuns, is a faaaaaaaarrrr better metric than what happens in the arena between experienced players, with clear mind and powerboosted fortitude and vengence.
i should roll an em/nin/crap to counter ice/em/force blasters... ?
Yeah placate has always been a only use after AS on my toon.
Almost every time I try to use it by itself if barely works. I've long given up using it on its own. I just AS, then placate the next mob next to the one I just killed, or placate the same enemy and then finish him off with a critical strike-guaranteed attack.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
[ QUOTE ]
i should roll an em/nin/crap to counter ice/em/force blasters... ?
[/ QUOTE ]
well if it's a PvP toon, where's your second layer of Stealth? <_< personally I'd think you should be taking down a solo blaster w/ not much issue.
A workaround, and I don't know how much time this would take but it's just a thought, would be to change the insignificant debuffs to your enemies into insignificant self buffs on the stalker melee sets. This only works for the non-status (eg, non EM) sets - Dark, every attack grants you a tiny def bonus, ninja sword a small acc bonus, claws a small dam bonus, etc.
If this could quickly be put in as a stopgap to a more sweeping fix, that would help people out.
[ QUOTE ]
Second, I discussed this with our QA and programmer and have filed it as a bug.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait. You only have one programmer working on this game?
If that's not a typo, I'm seriously, honestly impressed.
Stalkers the best in pvp? It's the person knowing how to play there toon thats best IMO. But in RV stalkers are far from the best in pvp hands down. If clear mind was bugged, i wonder if that would be on the bottom of the list to?
well, i guess i will just have to wait 15-20 seconds after impale is fired to use placate for it to work...
kind of a crappy work-around on our end...i'm a bit dissapointed with this response 
I am dissapointed as well. With this answer it means that any Spines stalker has placate as useless.
I may even try to drop placate and see how I do with the free power because Spines doesn't do enough burst damage to 2 shot anyone even with AS-Placate-Impale.
Heck I'm sure I could find a better power. I'm very annoyed at this and it makes my stalker not as fun.
It is a whopping let down. Placate really didn't work with spines much anyhow due to the erratic DoT but now that it's been brought to light that the slows severely affect it as well....
I suppose Dark Melee and Ninja Blade are shafted royally then as every single attack has some sort of effect on it....
Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!
[ QUOTE ]
Stalkers the best in pvp? It's the person knowing how to play there toon thats best IMO. But in RV stalkers are far from the best in pvp hands down. If clear mind was bugged, i wonder if that would be on the bottom of the list to?
[/ QUOTE ]
Stalkers overall are the best in PvP, that's the point, in which I think flew over your head. You would need examples to back up a bugged CM, like...since Placate's bug is limited to PvP, lets do the same for CM, lets say instead of buffing teammates, it debuffs them, this would be a much bigger bug than in terms of Placate since it would be debuffing allies to whereas Placate is still valuable if you use it after a AS, which is about 95% of the time. The other 5% would gear towards EM Stalkers that use TF or ET first against squishies, then Placate and AS.
Incorrect. Not everyone here is EM. I am one of those non-EM's. Often enough, I have to attack before AS just to get the person to stand still. Or I have to use an attack, Placate, then AS in the middle of a battle. Only, the Placate will fail on the enemy and cause them to be quite able to attack me.
I have proven my bug already. It is, at least, getting looked at and maybe fixed in a year or so.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
[ QUOTE ]
It is a whopping let down. Placate really didn't work with spines much anyhow due to the erratic DoT but now that it's been brought to light that the slows severely affect it as well....
I suppose Dark Melee and Ninja Blade are shafted royally then as every single attack has some sort of effect on it....
[/ QUOTE ]
i hate to say it but....
Claws ftw??? (only slash has any sort of effect right?) 
Not to thread steal or go off on a rant, but the devs generic response "Its Working As Intended" sounds like something parents say to kids when they dont have a answer or dont care.
I wonder if they responded the same way (works as intended) to things back when the Coh first came on
Regen Scrappers being able to herd and kill a good sized map
"Works As Intended"
Invul Tankers with Perma-Unstoppable Herding so many badies that the game couldnt actually draw them all on the same screen at once..
"Works as Intended."
/Device Blaster's Smoke Grenade able to floor accuracy on mobs.
"Works as Intended"
So many more, but now Placate, a power HEAVILY relied on by stalkers (since everyone is forced to by the nature of the set to run sometime for Hide to kick back in), is bugged from secondary effects of the primary.
"Works as Intended"
I think i see a pattern here....
The next time im pulled over for speeding, i guess ill tell the cop that my car "works as intended" 
No wait i better not, placate wont work since he is still steaming from my sarcastic comment.
[ QUOTE ]
Haven't we been repeatedly told that the AT we THINK is the best at PvP isn't really the best according to the numbers?
[/ QUOTE ]
You were? Got a link?
[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect. Not everyone here is EM. I am one of those non-EM's. Often enough, I have to attack before AS just to get the person to stand still. Or I have to use an attack, Placate, then AS in the middle of a battle. Only, the Placate will fail on the enemy and cause them to be quite able to attack me.
[/ QUOTE ]
ur one of those impatient stalkers ain't ya? ;P
I wasn't saying everyone was EM, but that the small percentage I gave was to EM users that have a strong attack outside of AS that has a benefit. ET has a high stun chance and TF is a auto stun for those w/out Disorient Protection, which gives them more than enough time to Placate and AS if needed. I would say Ripper would be good, but it doesn't have a auto knockback w/ it. Though when it comes to BB...all Stalkers have to open up w/ AS ;P
BB - pretty much a Stalkers only good attack is there AS *don't remember if Spine's has that ranged attack by lv25*
SC - this is still pretty much the same as BB, but you have a better attack to follow up w/ by lv30 *if you lvl'd that far*
WB - now EM doesn't have to open up w/ a AS anymore cause they have TF and can follow up w/ ET for a squishy kill. Spines is soon to follow w/ versatility.
RV - only difference is that they have PPPs.
Though when it comes to Tanks, Brutes and Scrappers...pretty much always gonna have to open up w/ AS. Stalkers can pretty much one shot *two shot now cause of the new code* other Stalkers from my expierence.
This is just how I see it w/ EM isn't necessarily bothered w/ Placate being bugged in the higher lvl zones. Spines will be annoyed, Claws will be like 'what I miss guys?' and everyone else will be pissed off ;P
yet another reason not to level a stalker past 40th... 
I'm guessing you don't get it. It's not knockback. It's -def. I proved this when Sting of the Wasp caused the Placate bug to occur. And when Divine Avalanche failed to cause the Placate bug. And the slows from Spines cause the bug too.
But yes, I am an impatient Stalker. When I stab a regen, I follow up. If he heals in time, I'm going to eventually want to Placate. NOT run off so his heals can recharge.
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
[ QUOTE ]
Not to thread steal or go off on a rant, but the devs generic response "Its Working As Intended" sounds like something parents say to kids when they dont have a answer or dont care.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think Castle is saying it's working as intended. I think he's put forth the argument that because (according to the dev's numbers) Stalkers are the most dominant PvP archetype, an acknowledged bug has absolutely low priority, regardless of the fact that said "bug" renders almost absolutely useless one of the defining powers of being a Stalker.
It's a little misleading because Stalker dominance so far may be the result of skewed statistics. If we count all kills across PvP levels, if the majority of kills are in Bloody Bay it doesn't alleviate or make up for the fact that Level 40-50 Stalkers need to placate in situations outside of utilizing Assassin's Strike.
This is right up there with Fury not working in PvP for Brutes. I mean the whole reason Placate is given to Stalkers is ameliorate the consequences of losing Hide. It's to give tactical options to a Stalker instead of just "Hit, Run...return to the battle 15 seconds later..." Now Placate is just rendered pointless and this is coming from a guy who gets repeatedly ganked by Stalkers ALL the time in Warburg on my squishy.
already said a while back that they check out pvp on a regular basis and since datamine the info to see what/who wins/does the best
im sure rv is also used for his stats on stalkers..