What is the Origin of the Term, "Nerf"?
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2006-07-13 08:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Indeed. Avoiding particular words because of their associated stigma means nothing to those who have issues with the actual changes and not the words.
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On the other hand, using a highly charged word when even people who use it can't agree on what it means is simply poor communication.
As we can see in this thread, "nerf" means so many things to so many people that it isn't particularly useful except as emotional invective. "Nerf" becomes a cipher word, a nothing, a syllable with no meaning other than "bad." It's gamer profanity.
To me, this is largely a function of the binary gamer mentality, that a power is either uber the very best available or gimp, that is, less than the best. Good or bad. One or zero. Take, or skip. Do or do not, there is no try, etc.
Nerf is the process where you go from uber to gimp, in symbolic logic. It's why so many people use it and it's also why it's so meaningless, because as a word it says nothing about what the change was or how it works and simply assumes it was bad. Sometimes going from 1 to 0 is what you want.
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Well written, I think that pretty much does describe the mentality.
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Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
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Temporary Refund Adjustment?
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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Lots of powers are skippable / situational. Burn just sticks out 'cause it was so freakingly, amazingly over-powered for about a year. And, yes, my only 50 is a fire / fire tanker. I know *precisely* how over the top burn was.
And ... know what? It's OK once again when used in combination with AoE powers, from other sets, that keep mobs from moving. And there are lots of 'em in the game. The combination of BU, FE, and burn can chug out a lot of damage these days, especially when compared to the damage output other tankers have.
I actually think it's a good thing when there's ... hmmm ... synergy between sets that offset, or even eliminate, certain weaknesses. Kins, for instance, make stone tankers very, very good. Bubbled up fire tankers are damn near unkillable. Ice and invuln tankers with a sonic defender are forces of nature.
That's not to say that FA doesn't have problems; I think it does, but those have to do more with surviving big alphas than damage output.
Pining for the good ol days of burn doesn't get us anywhere.
I first heard it (in relation to computer gaming) in the early days of Ultima Online, as well - to describe the weapons rebalancing in late 1997. Here is a link from April 1998 where one of the devs uses the term http://uohoc.stratics.com/logs/1998-04-09-log.shtml
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.
-Edward Abbey
From way back in the Useless Info archives (circa issue 5):
Mr E-Man's semi-regular & mostly useless information post #13:
Since we are about to get nerfed again, I figured I would ask: What is a Nerf?
Nerf (nûrf)
In the context of computer games, a nerf is a change to the rules of the game that is generally considered to have a weakening or negative effect upon the affected object(s). The term 'nerf', originating from the days of Ultima Online, relates to how Nerf toys for children use safe, soft foam and plastic to mimic sports balls and guns.
The games most frequently adjusted for balance are multiplayer online computer games, especially MMORPGs. MMORPG developers nerf aspects of the game in order to maintain game balance. Occasionally a new feature (such as an item, class, skill, etc.) may be made too powerful, too cheap, or too easily obtained to the extent that it unbalances the game system itself. This is sometimes due to an unforseen bug or method of using or acquiring the object that was not considered by the developers. The developers may have intended that a player perform steps A, B, and C to get the item, but players may accidentally discover that they can skip steps A and B and simply do step C to gain the reward.
More often though nerfs are implemented as an anti-power leveling tactic. This tactic is favored because it is easily implemented. However, although it has a negative effect on power leveling it generally harms legitimate players more than the PLers.
Mr E-Man ~ Mr E-Villain
XBL GamerTag: il Radd
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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It's all political correctness. If it looks like a nerf, and smells like a nerf, it's a nerf. Burn was nerfed. Was burn too strong? Perhaps. But as has happened a few times, the devs went berserk and nerfed it six ways from Sunday all at once, at the same time as a hundred other changes were being made. It helped drown the outrage over it. Recharge increased, a lot. Damage reduced, a lot. And of course, the power killer - the 'fear' effect. You took one of the strongest powers in the game, and reduced it to one of the weakest powers in the game, in one fell swoop.
So it doesn't really matter WHAT term you use. It's a great power reduced basically to uselessness. And I, probably like many others, have a fire tank sitting at 45 that I'll probably never play again. He's just a reminder of how bad things can suck when the devs toss off a vicious nerf and don't stop to consider how bad things are.
I know this post was a page back but I have to say that the changes that were made to burn are at this point the only ones in the game that I cant accept.
Why is it that the only time I can really use burn on my level 50 fire axe tank is when a controller has held/immobilized the entire group without fear of the group scattering because of the fear? Am I supposed to reroll my tank as fire ice so I can get some use out of this power again?
What is the point of this power any more? It is worse then temperature protection because at least that has the potential to keep you alive rather then only doing a crappy amount of damage (without massive amounts of buffing) and possibly getitng your teammates killed. Not because the enemies arent aggroed on to me anymore but because they switch from melee to aoe and cone attacks which has smited many a squishy. Remember Obersts shotguns?
And why was immobilization res picked to be put on that? Why? 90% of fire tanks take the leaping pool giving us our immobilization protection (combat jumping) and knockback res (acrobatics). btw whats with having us still have to pick up two more powers to get that protection?
Wasnt some of the reasoning behind Fire having weaker res and some holes in its defense being that it does more damage? Fiery embrace is now required for that to still be a reasoning.
And if rise of the pheonix is mentioned in that reasoning that is a horrible example of the set doing more damage. At level 50 I dont care about debt at all so I kill my tank whenever I get the chance to use one of the coolest powers in the game. But pre 50 debt meant something especially before it was nerfed to the point of pointlessness as well. Burn and debt near tie for lamest things in the game. Even hot feet has a use now.
I used to team with my roommate a lot with my fire axe and his invul energy tank. A lot of times we would end up splitting up at some point during a mission because we were following the "tank". Everytime without fail he would finish his group well before I would and that is only with using the energy melee attacks. I was using the "mighty" burn and my axe attacks. I had fiery embrace and build up and used them as frequently as I could and he didnt have build up. Dont have any cold hard numbers for this information other then we were both heavily slotted for damage.
I like a challenge otherwise I wouldnt have picked the "squishy" tank set and I like to be creative but I am tired of thinking of ways that would enable me to use Burn; not at its old potential but at any level of practical use not just the situational "use" it has now.
For you, as in you the face of the development staff in charge of powers and what-have-you, to post and say things as careless as your pc revamping of the word nerf to describe a power that helped this set to function on an equal level with the other sets makes me so much more then angry it truly offends me. I really wanted to swear at you and cuss you out for doing that but Im going to hold back.
Burn needed to change and not just because of all those herding punks and dont say it was for any other reason. Herding still happens today but in a more limited form but there hasnt been any clear discussion from the dev team on whether or not they should adjust burn so that it could be used in a more regular PvE setting. Pvp non use I can handle cause it still is pretty shacky at best on Triumph (pvping that is) and I rarely do it.
I left this game a while back to give WoW a try but I came back because I believe this game to be superior in many ways. I have been playing for at more then 2 years (month after beta) now and have enjoyed nearly all of that time. But this change makes me not want to play the game some days and this attitude that this power isnt going to be changed again just makes me angry.
My character isnt ruined and or doomed for deletion but he isnt anywhere near what he used to be and I believe this set to be broken and in need fixing. If you need suggestions I have many for this set and many others in the game.
Not going to swear but im gonna a;kshdg;auhgoaipsdhg;oahisdg;hilasd That is all. /rant
The first time I heard the term was a post in the old UO Newsgroup in a post that I *think* was made by our very own Venture. Actually, a quick search show it wasn't him, but a fellow named Bill Bessette. Here's a link to it.
I'm not CERTAIN it's the first use of the term, just the first I know of.
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I believe it stems from fantasy MMORPGs (or MUDs even) when a player's weapon would be reduced in effectiveness in an effort to balance the game.
It comes from the phrase "You turned my sword into a nerf bat".
Thus "nerfing" something became synonymous with making something weaker.
"Hit with the nerf bat" is a derivitive, but still sees its origin in the original 'sword' phrase, and can be applied to systems outside of the normal weapon and loot ones.
Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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I was under the impression that the ARchers in EQ were quite powerful, and they introduced a significant decrease in power, to which someone indicated they felt like they were shooting nerf arrows. I'm sure their are plenty of origin stories for the nerf term, but it is based off of the soft, difficulty to harm others material.
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When were there archers in EQ?
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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Then stop Nerfing. 
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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Then stop Nerfing.
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It's not the word that's the problem, it's the practice.
Life - a sexually transmitted terminal condition.
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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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So does this mean no more nerfs? Or are you just going to use a different word for it? 
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From now on, any action that may be seen as a nerf by the playerbase shall be referred to as "French"...
Oi the conotations.....
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I thought they preferred "small tweak"...
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Power Adjustment
Balancing
Changing the power to match it's description 
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If it helps to date it I know we were using the term back in the early days of Ultima Online about what happened to characters between beta and live. So back before then probably. Most likly from MUDs.
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Yeppers. MUDs were a dime a dozen around 1991-1996. I mainly played Ancient Anguish (which is still around, btw), but also countless others that sprung up for a few months or a year or so and disappeared.
I'm certain I've heard the turn "nerfed" well before UO, specifically in AA. I'm also certain some of those MUDs actually had Nerf bats as weapons. They did almost no damage, but it was for the humor of attacking orcs and the such with children's toys.
So, chalk up another wrong Wikipedia entry. But it probably became more popular with UO, since UO's userbase was so much greater than any MUD's.
Although, two of my favorite weapons of all time were in MUDs: the "Toothpick of Backstabbing" and "GizmoDuck's Battlearmor". The toothpick did UNGODLY damage, yet never explained why. The battlearmor allowed you to shoot missiles at anything, anywhere. It would be akin to standing in Atlas Park and shooting a Nuke at a playing standing in some instanced mission in Sharkhead Isle.
Oh, the days of yore and all that.
CoH has been unique in the sea of cloned MMOs.There are years of possibilities still
in such a well designed, well supported and well loved game.Shutting it down now doesn't
make sense on any level except, perhaps, on some spreadsheet�s bottom line. I do not
consider this an act of a company that has the interests of its customers at heart.This
calls into question why I would want to be part of any further ventures involving NCSoft.
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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Like the recent Global Chat Nerf.
Ok ok I know it wasn't intentional but I keep coming to the boards to get an update from some red name as to what's going on. The fix is taking forever...sigh* ...a bone please?
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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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Well, I really don't think you need to worry about whether you use the word "nerf" or any other phrase. 
It's the reduction in power that causes the negative reaction, not the wording. You can say "we're drastically reducing this" or you can say "we're doing a major nerf on this" and the players are going to react exactly the same either way.
The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction. Then the reaction will be worse. Not because of the word, but because of the perceived attempt to spin or flat out deceive.
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Changing the power to match it's description
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I fear for Temporary Invulnerability.
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Key words highlighted. They were technically right.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
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I believe it stems from fantasy MMORPGs (or MUDs even) when a player's weapon would be reduced in effectiveness in an effort to balance the game.
It comes from the phrase "You turned my sword into a nerf bat".
Thus "nerfing" something became synonymous with making something weaker.
"Hit with the nerf bat" is a derivitive, but still sees its origin in the original 'sword' phrase, and can be applied to systems outside of the normal weapon and loot ones.
Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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I can pretty much confirm your understanding of the origin of the term. Back when I played EQ, one of the cartoons that used to circulate on the web involved a picture of a warrior, dressed up as a clown with a balloon animal in one hand and a foam sword <,<
"So, they finally got around to nerfing warriors eh?" (The irony was, a druid, a rather over-powered class at the time; was clapping him on the shoulder laughing. >.>
Just felt like saying that. I'm 22 but I've played MMOs so long lol <;.;> I feel like an old timer.
I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to. 
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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He danced around that one. I'd really like to know what they plan for burn. States said a long time ago that Fire tanks are supposed to do more damage and burn was the reason why. Now it is jsut a pretty useless power that only people new to the game take. I think it would be nice for them to look into the power that people have no use for or dont take rather and modify them for the better or jsut scrap them all together and replace them with a usefull power. Burn for example is the complete oposite of something a tank wants. As we all know tanks are supposed to take agro not make people flee from them.
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~SNES, NES, GCN, N64, GB, Wii, GBC, GBA, SP, DS~|
|_| \_| |_| |_| \_| .. |__| .. |____| |_| \_| |___/ \___/
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Changing the power to match it's description
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I fear for Temporary Invulnerability.
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Wasn't TI a click back in CoH Beta?
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to.
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Probably.
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Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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Obviously.
I just call it "screwed". Each update, I look at the list and say one of two things. "Cool, they didn't screw me this time around." (I think I've only said that once....) Or, the much more popular, "MAN, they screwed me again...."
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
The problem is that what we are dealing with here is a simulation. It goes without saying that game designers can't create a real sword, they have to create a simulation of a sword, using their knowledge of real world swords, and a certain amount of guesswork. In real life if you have a sword, it's a sword, and will be as useful as a sword can be. If the devs get the numbers wrong, though, the sword could be a nerf bat on the one hand, or a Vorpal Sword of One Hit Slaying on the other.
If you take the Vorpal Sword of One Hit Slaying and tone it down to what an actual sword could do, then it can FEEL like a nerf bat because it's not what you're used to. But that doesn't necessarily make it useless. Certainly a sword, even compared to a Vorpal Sword of One Hit Slaying is not useless.
The assumption is that any reduction whatsoever is wrong, and that it makes whatever it is useless. But that assumes that everything was perfect to start with.