What is the Origin of the Term, "Nerf"?
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2006-07-13 08:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to. 
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It's starting to put me off of the concept, I'll give you that.
Howdy. I've got to say, I think Castle may have found it. I'm an old MUDder, and I know it came when they weakened swords in UO. I'm pretty darn sure, at least, cause I remember it starting then, and I don't remember it from any time earlier. NERF was selling these dueling swords at the time, too.
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Posi's origin is pretty accurate, and I'm fairly certain that this term pre-dates UO/EQ, etc., and stems from the text-only "MUD"s.
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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It's all political correctness. If it looks like a nerf, and smells like a nerf, it's a nerf. Burn was nerfed. Was burn too strong? Perhaps. But as has happened a few times, the devs went berserk and nerfed it six ways from Sunday all at once, at the same time as a hundred other changes were being made. It helped drown the outrage over it. Recharge increased, a lot. Damage reduced, a lot. And of course, the power killer - the 'fear' effect. You took one of the strongest powers in the game, and reduced it to one of the weakest powers in the game, in one fell swoop.
So it doesn't really matter WHAT term you use. It's a great power reduced basically to uselessness. And I, probably like many others, have a fire tank sitting at 45 that I'll probably never play again. He's just a reminder of how bad things can suck when the devs toss off a vicious nerf and don't stop to consider how bad things are.
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Yep, when Cryptic has 3 ways to change something and each of those ways will meet the necessary criteria on their own, they will (without fail) implement all three ways.
My Fire/Fire tank changed alright... now all he does is taunt/aggro 5 mobs and let the scrapper beat them up. It's not worth the time nor endurance to bother attacking. In the time it takes to defeat one +2 minion, the scrapper can have defeated the other three +2 minions (+3 to the scrapper since she's -1 to me) and the +2 LT.
I'm basically a Taunt bot with lots of aggro powers. Which is why I seldom play my fire tank anymore.
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Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
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once again when any one of the above would have worked, a dev used all of them. 
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Changing the power to match it's description
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I fear for Temporary Invulnerability.
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Wasn't TI a click back in CoH Beta?
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Yup. 30 second duration, 2 minute recharge, IIRC. Gave a 32.5% buff to S/L resistance. Was changed (along with a bunch of other tanker stuff) 2 weeks before the game went live.
Here's a fun thing to try... any time you see the word 'nerf' substitute the word 'balance'. It works!
"Man! They really balanced that power this time!"
"Oh No! They balanced me!"
"I sure hope they don't try and balance <insert power here>."
"My fire tank was uber until the devs balanced him."
"They've balanced us one too many times! I'm quitting!"
...
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
the word Nerf not sure when it was first used to make things weaker but its a COmpany that used to make Foam weaponry like guns and such. The Nerf material was soft and light and would cause no injury even with serious applications of force.
Lawn darts were much more fun.
We don' need no stinkin' signatures!
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to.
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It's starting to put me off of the concept, I'll give you that.
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding, I haven't seen an instance in this thread where a Dev has been treated any worse (or better) than any other poster saying the same things. Deciding not to post based on this instance, I find unjustifiable.
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If it helps to date it I know we were using the term back in the early days of Ultima Online about what happened to characters between beta and live. So back before then probably. Most likly from MUDs.
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It was used in 1993/1994 on Hidden Worlds MUD when they "nerfed" the Sanctuary spell from making each strike on character / MOB do at most 14 points of damage to doing half damage. This was a big change as MOBs could do hundreds of points of damage per hit and when you didn't know the change was made and entered a fight.....well you died or ran very quickly.
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Repeat Offenders
some people who thought burn was nessecary to be the way it was
are the same ones looking for one and sending it tells to join its team
right taser?... or did you solo your blaster to 50?
also if you actually had read the description of burn...its not even close towhat it was written as
btw im still waiting the "mod" on electric blasters...already stated too powerful
time to hit the axe im thinking
if the only nerf you saw is e.d. then you have no right!
ask a regen how many times they been nerfed to a elec blaster...
or a elec blaster to a fire tank...im thinking people like these are leeches nothing more
dont say you know unless you been there for all 50 lvls or roll more then one toon
if you got one 50 on coh and all kinds of alts and the only thing you know how to say is looking for frostfire team
then step off the plate
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to.
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It's starting to put me off of the concept, I'll give you that.
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding, I haven't seen an instance in this thread where a Dev has been treated any worse (or better) than any other poster saying the same things. Deciding not to post based on this instance, I find unjustifiable.
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I think the thread would have remained on the discussion of the origin of Nerf meaning "power downgrade," with a couple of side comments about how nerfing here and there, had Positron remained silent. As soon as he posted, particularly about this topic, the whole "burn is broken" and "when are you going to fix global chat" posse arrived.
I'm not commenting on either issue, but I believe we would've avoided the griping and negativity had Positron not commented.
ever hear of risk v.s. reward
how bout this
justification v.s. modification
cant have one without the other and so far thats not even close
people will always take a side*cough*friggin taser*cough*
however his main is a iss 2 fotm elec blaster
not touched accept for e.d. which by the time that came out burn got nerfed 3 times already
so only some will truly understand while others are community wont
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's starting to put me off of the concept, I'll give you that.
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding, I haven't seen an instance in this thread where a Dev has been treated any worse (or better) than any other poster saying the same things. Deciding not to post based on this instance, I find unjustifiable.
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I think the thread would have remained on the discussion of the origin of Nerf meaning "power downgrade," with a couple of side comments about how nerfing here and there, had Positron remained silent. As soon as he posted, particularly about this topic, the whole "burn is broken" and "when are you going to fix global chat" posse arrived.
I'm not commenting on either issue, but I believe we would've avoided the griping and negativity had Positron not commented.
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Hmmmm. You're probably right.
Is Castle's sig quoting everyone's favourite robotic assassin from KOTOR?
Nerfs are fine, but often require other things to be changed accordingy to complete the balance. Let me give you all a few examples of what should have happened in the game due to some 'power alterations'.
Scrappers are unable to six slot nearly anything. Scrappers should then have something else they could put into their powers. Like secondaries as an example; If we can only slot so much defense, we should be able to use other slots for resistance as well. Dark armor is a good example, lost most of it's psychic resistance for Obsidion Shard, without losing any of the endurance cost.
Here's another. example; When characters recieved the speed power supression, enemies should have as well. As it is, Diabolique can phase (longer then 30 seconds), super speed, and attack without any supression what so ever.
And a third; Since some archvillians (DeVore, Mother Mayhem, Nosferatu, Siege, Diabolique, and a few others) are now the capability of a whole team of people, matter of fact they were before we experienced ED. Yet their powers were never readjusted, weakened, nor were they made to be 'appropriate' for their AT types. So scrappers for example have less damage to slot, yet enemies are just as tough (if not moreso). Tanks who were supposed to absorb the damage got their defenses significantly reduced, making it more likely everyone will wipe.
The list goes on and on. Enemies with resistances to "every" damage type except 1 uncommon/rare type. Enemies who surpass skill levels of enhancements (so if you've got TO's they hit like they've got DO's). Powers at points in the game when no one has defense against.
We keep being the ginuea pigs, we're the ones nerfed, and asking for Npcs to be balanced accordingly is taboo. Positron, maybe people wouldn't throw around the word nerf, or use it as often if a lot of the heroes didn't feel like they were getting the short side of the stick.
You fight the archvillians for Carnival of Shadows and tell me how fair you think the rewards are.
The first time I heard the term was a post in the old UO Newsgroup in a post that I *think* was made by our very own Venture. Actually, a quick search show it wasn't him, but a fellow named Bill Bessette. Here's a link to it.
Is someone taking my name in vain? :-)
The first use of "nerf" I heard was in the UO newsgroup, from Jeff "Dundee" Freeman. He went on to become a content designer for SWG, and (AFAIK) is now the Lead Systems Designer for an unspecified SOE product.
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Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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Just because Burn was broken before does not mean that is fixed now. Its still broken, but most on the dev team seem to care quite a bit less when its broken in this direction. *shrug*
Similarly 'working as intended' should not be equated as 'working as it should'
Sometimes there are reasons why players aren't taking powers beyond the fact that we are all powergaming idiots that don't know when we aren't having fun.
I'm not sure if people are replying to me or just happen to be clicking on the most recent post, but I'll prattle on here presuming the former.
I am not defending or attacking any particular change. There have been plenty of power downgrades that I think were overdone; I'd even call a couple of them "nerfs" in the "rendered practically useless" definition. (I don't buy the argument that any reduction in power = nerf = unwarranted = worth complaining about; if you do (the general you, not the Kisaragi you), fine, I refuse to even try and convince you otherwise.)
All I'm saying is that we were having a laid-back discussion about etymology and semantics until Positron had to come in here and open his fat yap. Then the discussion veers off to people complaining about Burn and Global Chat, claiming that "reduction in effectiveness" is somehow an obfuscatory phrase rather than being a flat description (which it is), and so forth.
This, in turn, makes me sigh and want to wallow in the relative comfort of some AASQ thread.
Teh AASQ is ebil... it confuses cookies. Again. 
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding...
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Are there really horror stories of this?
I remember when I first met Statesman at San Diego Con a few years back. I'd been hanging at the NC Soft booth a whole lot (trying to win free stuff in the trivia contests) when I approached States with a question on blasters.
Before answering, he backed up a bit and gave me a discerning look, as if he were memorizing my features for a future police lineup...
You could tell, in the back of his mind, stories of devs being dismembered by raged fans were running wild. He asked me if I was [don't remember the name] from the Forums and waited cautiously for my answer. When I told him I didn't even know what the forums were he relaxed and answered my questions.
I was really curious about his behavior until I got home and registered on the Forums. Then his fear became all too clear. But I've never heard of any real horror stories. I think they're just dev urban legends they make up during overtime to spook the newbs.
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Is Castle's sig quoting everyone's favourite robotic assassin from KOTOR?
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From KOTOR2, and I think it was one of the other HK models, but yeah.
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Thessalia, by Darkchildx2k
The term nerf is used in a negative sense because in most cases it is negative.
You might as well call a cat a cat.
A small adjustment downward is not a nerf, nor is adjusting something up and something down as long as its in parity.
But gutting a power or powerset is a nerf and there is no other way to put it. Fire got gutted in I5 and I6. The first burn nerf saw many improvements to Fire aura with the nerf. IN the later ones nothing was given back in fact in ED every power got nerfed with no real compensation
Call it nerf/mudwimping/blunting/gutting whatever you want its refered to negativly because it affects the players in a negative way.
This remeinds me of Posi's post in COV beta about ED, he never asked us to test or our opinions he just wanted to know how best to sell it to the players to reduce the amount of angry players and cancelled accounts. He didnt actually say that but it was his clear intention.
Nerf is a deragotory term for an action that usually affects players badly and I dont see anything wrong with speaking up and saying so.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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I believe it stems from fantasy MMORPGs (or MUDs even) when a player's weapon would be reduced in effectiveness in an effort to balance the game.
It comes from the phrase "You turned my sword into a nerf bat".
Thus "nerfing" something became synonymous with making something weaker.
"Hit with the nerf bat" is a derivitive, but still sees its origin in the original 'sword' phrase, and can be applied to systems outside of the normal weapon and loot ones.
Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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You forgive me for using 'nerf' and I'll forgive you and yours for using the term 'diversification'
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And NC Soft "right-sized" it's staff in Texas. From the company's point of view of view it probably was necessary, but those on the receiving end surely didn't enjoy it and would probably call it a layoff. It's an extreme example, but illustrates that gussifying up a concept with a prettier word doesn't change the substance of it or it's effect.
(And yes, Burn was very broken. And I'd never take it now.)
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