What is the Origin of the Term, "Nerf"?
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2006-07-13 08:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I wonder if this is why Dev's don't post as much as they used to. 
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One would think that they would avoid a thread like this reflexively. Self-loathing streak? Too much flattery around the office? 
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding...
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Are there really horror stories of this?
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PM a couple rednames. Make a note of which ones don't accept pm's anymore.
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Alot of this is the backlash after ED.
Players were very unhappy and harsh with the devs after ED.
Boycott Ncsoft if they close down Coh.
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding...
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Are there really horror stories of this?
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PM a couple rednames. Make a note of which ones don't accept pm's anymore.
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Alot of this is the backlash after ED.
Players were very unhappy and harsh with the devs after ED.
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Geko stopped accepting pm's long before ED was a twinkle in States' eye.
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
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once again when any one of the above would have worked, a dev used all of them. 
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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AKA a nerf.
Semantics aside, it's all the same thing. You can call it "power alteration", "debuff to the power", etc - in the end it's still a nerf.
On the particular subject of Burn - it was overnerfed and the Fire Armor set to this day hasn't received compensation, since the old Burn is what set it apart from other melee armor sets.
Was amuses me about this whole discussion is that people are ranting and raving about all these terrible "nerfs", but I never noticed anything in this game being particularly difficult. Is this game really so hard to play? My characters seem to level even faster than they did back in the old days before everything was "nerfed".
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Wasn't TI a click back in CoH Beta?
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Yup. 30 second duration, 2 minute recharge, IIRC. Gave a 32.5% buff to S/L resistance. Was changed (along with a bunch of other tanker stuff) 2 weeks before the game went live.
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Thanks! Now the name of the power makes more sense. I can even see why they changed it...too much time standing around with the tanker "WF TI".
They should have renamed it when they changed it so dramatically. As it stands now, TI is neither temporary nor invulnerability. A better name would be "Bulletproof" or somesuch.
"Destiny's powerful hand has made the bed of my future, and it's up to me to lie in it. I am destined to be a superhero. To right wrongs, and to pound two-fisted justice into the hearts of evildoers everywhere." -- The Tick
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Was amuses me about this whole discussion is that people are ranting and raving about all these terrible "nerfs", but I never noticed anything in this game being particularly difficult. Is this game really so hard to play? My characters seem to level even faster than they did back in the old days before everything was "nerfed".
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What amuses me is as much as Positron hates the word nerf it lured him here to post three times. Completely ignoring many of the hundreds of posts on these boards with real merit like Different Flying Style.
Things are a lot different from when I started playing. When I started, you could solo, a lot, and not have to worry that much. Powers enabled you to be the kind of superhero you might imagine playing (even with the limited power choices). Now adays we're pushed towards teams being the goal.
In the old days, when someone hit one of the level 9 powers, they were awesome to behold. Now we're about 15 levels lower on the power scale and Regen people cringe when anyone uses any four letter word with a N in it.
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Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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So does this mean no more nerfs? Or are you just going to use a different word for it?
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Developers typically already do. Things are "rebalanced" or "tweaked" or "altered." It's pretty much all synonymous, but like Positron says, "nerfed" automatically illicits negative viewpoints. It's a very evocative term.
But rest assured, things will be "rebalanced," "tweaked," "altered" and even "nerfed" for years to come in any MMOG you play. Sometimes reductions in effectiveness/powers are just necessary whether we like it or not.
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And sometimes they are not, but hapen anyway...or the wrong power will get nerfed, resulting in continued imbalance. Take invulnerability's resists vs. invincibility in issue 5, for example.
Bonus points for going back and adjusting the power that actually caused the imbalance, but leaving the nerfed-to-account-for-the-uber-power powers nerfed as they were, which potentially leaves the entire set underpowered.
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Was amuses me about this whole discussion is that people are ranting and raving about all these terrible "nerfs", but I never noticed anything in this game being particularly difficult. Is this game really so hard to play? My characters seem to level even faster than they did back in the old days before everything was "nerfed".
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What amuses me is as much as Positron hates the word nerf it lured him here to post three times. Completely ignoring many of the hundreds of posts on these boards with real merit like Different Flying Style.
Things are a lot different from when I started playing. When I started, you could solo, a lot, and not have to worry that much. Powers enabled you to be the kind of superhero you might imagine playing (even with the limited power choices). Now adays we're pushed towards teams being the goal.
In the old days, when someone hit one of the level 9 powers, they were awesome to behold. Now we're about 15 levels lower on the power scale and Regen people cringe when anyone uses any four letter word with a N in it.
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I guess it just goes to show that two different people can see the same things and come to a completely different understanding of what happened.
Part of my perspective probably comes from not having played any of the "overpowered" sets from the early days like /dev blasters /fire tanks or /regen scrappers.
If I thought that the developers were continually nerfing the game in order to lessen my enjoyment, I would quit immediately. It surprises me that you seem to think that is what's happening, and yet you still play.
To each their own, of course.
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I believe it stems from fantasy MMORPGs (or MUDs even) when a player's weapon would be reduced in effectiveness in an effort to balance the game.
It comes from the phrase "You turned my sword into a nerf bat".
Thus "nerfing" something became synonymous with making something weaker.
"Hit with the nerf bat" is a derivitive, but still sees its origin in the original 'sword' phrase, and can be applied to systems outside of the normal weapon and loot ones.
Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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If it feels like a hit from a Nerf bow and arrow, then it probably is.
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Key words highlighted. They were technically right.
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Yes, because of all those non-power uses for enhancements. I mean, it's not as if affecting how enhancements work has any bearing on powers...
Anyone who can argue with a straight face that ED was not a sweeping nerf to all powersets is not someone I'd ever choose to believe on any matter.
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Here's a fun thing to try... any time you see the word 'nerf' substitute the word 'balance'. It works!
"Man! They really balanced that power this time!"
"Oh No! They balanced me!"
"I sure hope they don't try and balance <insert power here>."
"My fire tank was uber until the devs balanced him."
"They've balanced us one too many times! I'm quitting!"
...
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But then, in a demonstrably large number of circumstances, you'd be disseminating falsehoods.
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Key words highlighted. They were technically right.
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Yes, because of all those non-power uses for enhancements. I mean, it's not as if affecting how enhancements work has any bearing on powers...
Anyone who can argue with a straight face that ED was not a sweeping nerf to all powersets is not someone I'd ever choose to believe on any matter.
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Actually there were some powersets you didn't six slot for character design reasons. But there is no point trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone who can show such a lack of game knowledge with a straight face.
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Key words highlighted. They were technically right.
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Yes, because of all those non-power uses for enhancements. I mean, it's not as if affecting how enhancements work has any bearing on powers...
Anyone who can argue with a straight face that ED was not a sweeping nerf to all powersets is not someone I'd ever choose to believe on any matter.
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Actually there were some powersets you didn't six slot for character design reasons. But there is no point trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone who can show such a lack of game knowledge with a straight face.
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I think you're in way over your head here ... You might consider stopping at simply being wrong ... Instead of continuing on to becoming something more.
Just trying to help.
just like the attention to customer concerns has been nerfed, so has the importance of this forum been nerfed. they way i see it anyway
Normally I'm nice enough not to point out where I laughed at people. Not today.
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What amuses me is as much as Positron hates the word nerf it lured him here to post three times. Completely ignoring many of the hundreds of posts on these boards with real merit like Different Flying Style.
Things are a lot different from when I started playing. When I started, you could solo, a lot, and not have to worry that much. Powers enabled you to be the kind of superhero you might imagine playing (even with the limited power choices). Now adays we're pushed towards teams being the goal.
In the old days, when someone hit one of the level 9 powers, they were awesome to behold. Now we're about 15 levels lower on the power scale and Regen people cringe when anyone uses any four letter word with a N in it.
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Honestly, I'm not trying to troll, I just see complete falsehood and have no urge to ignore it today.
First, he mentioned he disliked the word, gave an idea of where it came from(or at least one he had) and then said it wasn't the only possible phrasing(Idiot moan inducer is my personal favorite).
Heh, real merit. Still laugh, really do.
Second real point, if you can't solo something, I don't know what you're doing. If I can solo a psi/grav dominator, anyone can solo.
Lastly, I still have a blast with regen, of course I was never one to try to tank AVs or herd(intentionally) and invun for that matter. I actually enjoy both a bit more, after the last regen reductions I made about 5 levels in 5 days just because it was so fun to me since there was actually risk to it.
If you don't see the amazed look on a newb's face the first time my dominator beans someone with a forklift, you just aren't paying enough attention. And that's not even a high level power.
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Why, you stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder!
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That's what I will always think of whenever someone says nerf. Gimme some of that Han Solo love, oh yeah!
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I believe it stems from fantasy MMORPGs (or MUDs even) when a player's weapon would be reduced in effectiveness in an effort to balance the game.
It comes from the phrase "You turned my sword into a nerf bat".
Thus "nerfing" something became synonymous with making something weaker.
"Hit with the nerf bat" is a derivitive, but still sees its origin in the original 'sword' phrase, and can be applied to systems outside of the normal weapon and loot ones.
Personally, I hate the word, and try never to use it when talking about the game to players. It carries a very negative stigma that I like to avoid whenever possible.
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I was under the impression that the ARchers in EQ were quite powerful, and they introduced a significant decrease in power, to which someone indicated they felt like they were shooting nerf arrows. I'm sure their are plenty of origin stories for the nerf term, but it is based off of the soft, difficulty to harm others material.
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When were there archers in EQ?
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Rangers.
However, I recall hearing the one of the leads had major archer hate - bows really never did much, yet it wasn't until two or so years ago that you could put them on auto attack.
I remember my friend complaining about it alot
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The only thing that can make the reaction worse is when you say something like "a little nerf" and then you make a major reduction.
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Or like when you say there's gonna be no more nerfs to powers ...
Then cut all enhancement effectiveness by half ???
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Key words highlighted. They were technically right.
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Yes, because of all those non-power uses for enhancements. I mean, it's not as if affecting how enhancements work has any bearing on powers...
Anyone who can argue with a straight face that ED was not a sweeping nerf to all powersets is not someone I'd ever choose to believe on any matter.
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Actually there were some powersets you didn't six slot for character design reasons. But there is no point trying to have an intelligent discussion with someone who can show such a lack of game knowledge with a straight face.
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Correction; there were some powers you didn't six-slot. Entire powersets, though? Anyway, ED didn't just nerf powers that you six-slotted, it also nerfed (to a lesser extent) powers that you four- or five-slotted. Heck, many people slotted shields with five defense buff or resist SOs + one endurance reduction, but those were certainly reduced in capability because slotting past the first three SOs is largely pointless now. Lots of people would slot attacks with 1xacc, 4xdam, and 1x endred or rech, and those were reduced as well.
Of course, you also had people with slotted up targeting drone or focused accuracy who would drop accuracies from their attacks, allowing them to slot 5-6 damage per attack.
Could you clarify which primary or secondary powersets had no room or need for slotting 4-6 SOs of the same type in any powers whatsoever? I'm really curious.
Heck, which power pool completely lacks any powers that anyone might put 4-6 SOs of the same type into?
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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Nerf is easier. Seriously. Let go of your annoyance and you'll see that it's just a word. It's a pretty cute word at that. And its etymology makes sense for its most common usage.
The developers (including Statesman) who I've seen use it, aren't anymore villainous. Hell, I think many people (but I'll speak only for me) think it's cool when a dev doesn't hide behind weasel words and just proudly says, "We nerfed Burn."
Say it with me Positron, "I (or Geko most likely) nerfed Burn." Nothing bad about that sentence. It's just a fact.
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... Burn just sticks out 'cause it was so freakingly, amazingly over-powered for about a year. And, yes, my only 50 is a fire / fire tanker. I know *precisely* how over the top burn was...
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How far "over the top" were the changes to "fix" this power? I feel the changes to the power itself were a bit much - considering mob AI was conveniently and simultaneously recoded to further "nerf" Burn's effectiveness. Add ED and then watch the power's effectiveness slip below Bob Dole virility.
Next up, Nerf-Herders, and the devs that love them ...
The problem with their vision of balance is the practice has nothing to do with the words used.
1: Balance against other sets? Hardly there are sets in every AT that are better then others and some that flat out suck to not being played barring masochists and Concept chrs.
2: Balance against ATs? Again comparing apples to oranges. Do you skin an orange because it is harder then an apple to put it in line with an apple? Do you pour sugar on an apple to balance it's sweetness of oranges. Apples are NOT Oranges.
3: Balance meaning Give and Take. Using Tankers as an example. For every 1 give there is 10 takes. I can rant here about losign defense, aggro control, having an inherent that doesn't work and about 15 more things that say screw tanking.
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It shouldn't be hard to say, "We've put in an auto disengage, which means MOBs will randomly change targets every few seconds. Please stop playing tankers already."
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But we got an icon that looks pretty and does nothing but remind us that the Devs don't give a damn about a tanker unless they are playing on a team and hiding behind one while getting powerleveled by whatever broken power they are playing ATM.
If the word Nerf is not a good term then try introducing the word buff every once in a while. The patch notes are nearly always 10 to 1 nerfs and the 1 is likely a power that was broken to begin with getting raised from useless to melely pathetic.
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well i cant see what else you would call "nerfing" burn
posi might not remember it but its one of those powers that we "use" to use
since hes not nerfing things..maybe he can tell us when he plans on fixing the power he messed up then?
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I would call Burn's change many things:
Power alteration
Reduced in effectiveness
Strength modification
Debuff to the power
etc.
Just because I don't use the word "nerf" does not mean things will never be adjusted in a downward direction.
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The problem is that "nerf" is the term the players uses for any reduction in the effectivnes of a power, whether you approve of its use or not. I myself am a plain language guy... if you dance around something by saying "power alteration" it just annoys the crap outa me, and alot of people I'd imagine. Its like you not being direct or completely honest with me. Ambiguous terms are not required. Call a spade a spade.
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Horror stories about Devs being torn limb from limb by their playerbase notwithstanding...
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Are there really horror stories of this?
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PM a couple rednames. Make a note of which ones don't accept pm's anymore.