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Posts
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Thank you guys so, so much for going to the effort of answering these questions for us.
I am kicking myself so hard for not getting my questions put into the googledoc in time, though.A few of them were answered in other questions, but I really wanted to know the others...if y'all decide to do this again, it would be deeply appreciated. And if not, then thank you again for clarifying the lore, and giving us an inside look at how things are done. Getting that peek behind the scenes was really interesting.
And holy crap, I would have loved to play in that Champions game! -
- Were there ever any plans to add more big-deal past events to the game, like Brass Monday? I'm thinking in the style of the Ouroboros task forces like Trading Places. I would've loved to play through Brass Monday.
- How were Sister Psyche and Statesman (and possibly Maiden Justice) going to be memorialized in-game and in the universe?
- Were Sister Psyche and Manticore present at Statesman's funeral?
- Was there ever a plan to have those who died during SSA1 "come back" as ghosts, hallucinations, clones, or anything like that, to, say, torment their still-living loved ones or something?
- Did you have plans for any other characters to switch sides, aside from the ones that everyone's been asking about in this thread?
- Was Boomtown ever going to be rebuilt? Same with Galaxy City, would we have ever seen it fixed up and reopened? (Relatedly, how much does FEMA hate Paragon City?
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Thank you guys for doing this. I look forward to the loregasm.Everyone else has asked the other questions I wanted to know.
- Were there ever any plans to add more big-deal past events to the game, like Brass Monday? I'm thinking in the style of the Ouroboros task forces like Trading Places. I would've loved to play through Brass Monday.
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Quote:GIL! I was just reading some of the old Paragon Times articles on the wiki a couple weeks ago, too. I hope you've been well. I missed ya.It's been a while... Gilgamesh here... remember me? And Jackson Turner? Sad times now but remember those glory days? It was fun and I cherish the community that grew all around us. Take care (all of you guys) and be well.
And haha wow I didn't realize (or had forgotten) that BellaStrega was Kali. -
Quote:Sort of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of...s#City_of_HeroSuper Heroes are western icons. That seems like more of a cultural conflict to me- For whatever reason, Asian culture is very popular amongst the gaming-inclined folks in the west. They just didn't seem to reciprocate the feeling when it came to heroes.
Also: Are there even eastern translations of COH? I know we had French and German servers, but I don't remember hearing anything about Chinese/Korean/etc. COH servers. AFAIK, COH never even made an effort to appeal to that market.
And even if it did, and it was before my time, I'm 99% certain that it was before Freedom launched.. Which means that NCSoft was fully aware of the marketing base before they green lighted Freedom.
It actually had an offline character creator, which would be so awesome to have again.
Edit; so beaten. -
I remember Matches talking out of every car, truck, and box in this game.
I remember Knives of Artemis caltrops icons stretching a mile across the screen, and I remember the screenshots of Eyedevil walking into them and dying instantly.
I remember Celtic, and his adorably creepy obsession with Manticore. (I even started an MA arc about that, but never actually finished it.)
I remember dancing around Ms. Liberty when my friends hit 50. Every character of mine went back to her to train that last level.
I remember City of Blasters and the smoke grenade nerf.
I remember getting hover and immediately flying up the tallest building I could find. Very slowly. And then immediately shutting off hover and diving off the roof.
I remember the first time I saw somebody's leftover Malta ambush when I was like 15 in Steel Canyon, and suicide diving them just to see what would happen.
I remember the Rularuu invasion, and staring in awe at these floating eyeballs and storm elementals on my little lowbie blaster (Thess, in fact).
I remember the music. So much awesome music. Atlas Park as you approached Ms. Liberty/zoned in from the tutorial, Blyde Square, I'm totally forgetting others but damn I loved the music in this game.
I remember my buddy making Two Tons of Fun the fire/ss tanker, so we all made Tons characters too. Half Ton of Fun, Uncle Tons, Fan of Tons, Son of Tons (mine, and the only male character I've ever made).
I remember old Hami raids and being on the taunt team with my empath, and yelling at Hank over Vent when he'd alt-tab out and target off Hami.
I remember heal farms with DC.
I remember Voodoo helping me get Thess to 50, finally, long after my other friends had quit and I figured she'd never get there. It's also thanks to him that I have my one and (currently) only villain 50. And my obsession with controllers.
I remember Victory over Triumph, also thanks to Voo, which was responsible for my favorite, most fun character to play (besides Thessalia, of course, just out of sheer nostalgia): Alecto Nox, my ill/kin troller. Transferring her to Victory was the best thing I ever did for her. I'm just sad that I waited so long to transfer my mastermind, only did it last week finally.
I remember meeting people and making friends who would change my life. Because this has been so much more than just a game. It and the people in it got me through some vey dark times in my life, and I will be forever grateful. The characters I made in it have come to mean so much to me, and I will carry them with me forever. I don't know why I'm surprised that I got so very attached to them, but I did. I guess this being my first MMO had something to do with that. It just won't be the same without the ability to log in and go flying through the city on them...but it is what it is. And I have three months to enjoy every last bit of it.
Long live Paragon City. -
Aww, Cuppa! <3 She was awesome, and greatly missed. Tell her hi from an old player, though she probably doesn't remember me.
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Thanks, Zwill. You were an awesome community manager. <3
Everybody at Paragon Studios pretty much rocked, actually. Best of luck to all of them. -
I am crushed.
I thought this game would always be around. All the **** I'll never do, all the plot lines that will never get wrapped up...no more itrials with Madame Pistacio...(where are you, lady, I need a hug!!) Guess it's time to see if I can finish at least some of the stuff I wanted to do before Nov 30, like doing all the Praetoria stuff and getting a scrapper to 50 and actually leveling my widow and every other ******* thing that I was excited about. It's not very likely, though.
Gonna miss you, Victory. -
I like the new look and redesign (mostly)! As long as they don't get retconned into a monoethnic gang (which from the earlier screenshots appears isn't the case) and don't all talk like freaking Boris and Natasha, it's cool. Yes even the hair.
Quote:As someone else pointed out in response to Nalrok only seeing the white Skulls, this seems to be the random number generator at work rather than anything else.Also, after running around and checking them out, I'd say that the occurrence of females showing up in spawns seems a little too frequent. I encountered several female only spawns and usually at least one female in every spawn on the streets. I like the addition, but it just feels out of place to have them so equally represented.
Just my opinions.
I am not against this revamp at all. And I don't think they've swung and missed in the slightest. I don't care for the club hair and I don't care for the club jeans, but the previous changes seem more important to me. -
Quote:I guess I don't see the point of these little games of "well if I remove THIS word, is it still racist? How about if I remove THIS word?" The fact is these stories exist with those words in them, that is the reality of them. More to the point that's how he intended them to be read. So playing games about if he hadn't described them as foreigners, or if he hadn't described that black man as an actual ape, etc, don't seem very constructive to me. Yes, indeed, if he had written these stories differently then they might have been very different stories. But the fact is he didn't and they are what they are.I'm asking whether a story can be divorced from its authors intentions. Unlike _Red Hook_, _The Street_ does not explicitly describe the interlopers as immigrants or foreign aside from describing them as "swart". If you removed those references, it could just as easily be the "white trash" of Innsmouth as be the "slant-eyed" men of Red Hook.
If the evil men of the story were just "men", would the story still be racist or is there simply no way to see the story outside of the context of HPL and his beliefs?
Merit is a different thing and I will give you that. However, I think "The Horror at Red Hook" and "The Street" are not particularly good stories of Lovecraft's, and they're not what I like about his writing. Now, again, that's just my opinion; maybe others love them, I don't know. But I will not, nor have I, said that you should hate these stories, or find no merit in them; I am not going to dictate how others should respond to something. -
Quote:There are mountains of evidence of how Lovecraft actually felt about this stuff, because he was a very prolific letter writer, for one. And it's not like he tried to hide his views on race; it's very explicit.Lastly: This may have been raised in discussion already, but let me throw it out there. HPL may have been writing fiction and therefore taking on a tone as an author he did not carry in real life. I write vampire fiction. It can be gruesome. That does not mean I have a dungeon in my basement, blood in my refigerator, or stalk people. It is fiction. We recentlky ran a short campaign where the GM asked for us to play monstrous demons. After 5 gaming sessions the body count was about a hundred. That is not who any of us are in real life (3 copy editors and a bookkeeping mgr) It was FICTION.
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Also, if anyone likes old-style radio dramas, check out the Atlanta Radio Theatre Company's performance of The Shadow Over Innsmouth- it's absolutely great, and I was lucky enough to be there when it was performed live at DragonCon 2004, with Harlan Ellison reading one of the parts.
E;
Oh, I know, and neither am I. I'm enjoying the discussion, I can talk about HPL for days, and I don't get much of a chance to anymore. I might come across pretty blunt in text, but I'm not angry or upset, just debating! -
That story is literally about how the neighborhood is going to hell (literally!) because of "foreigners", which in this context is just a racist dog whistle. So I guess in that sense it serves the ends of the story, but the whole thing is pretty gratuitous, so yeah.
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Or "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family", the name and specific details of which I was actually wracking my brain to remember before Slick got me googling HPL's racism. So thanks for that, at least
Anyway, I highly recommend Joshi's annotated volumes of Lovecraft, if anyone's interested in getting into him. They're incredibly informative and well-researched. I love the cosmic horror of Lovecraft; it really boils down to the deep terror of insignificance. This universe is so vast and incomprehensible, and really does not give a **** about tiny little creatures on a tiny blue planet. He was deeply preoccupied with this notion.
I also love his Dream Cycle stories; they're more fantastical. "The Cats of Ulthar", "The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath", "The Doom that Came to Sarnath"... -
Quote:That last line is screamingly hilarious. Anyway, honestly, do some research here. Again, S.T. Joshi is a preeminent scholar of all things Lovecraft, you can't go wrong with his stuff. Five seconds with google also got me this page, scroll down to the section entitled "The subterranean peril: Lovecraft's racism". http://www.contrasoma.com/writing/lovecraft.html/ And actually, the whole article is great. Here, I'll pull out two particularly interesting quotes:This is why I ask "what are the racist elements?" because what I keep hearing is an analysis of HPL and not an analysis of the story other than "Well, they're obvious."
Humor me. I disagree that they're obvious, or at least I disagree that they are gratuitous.
Quote:There is an unfortunately large amount of Lovecraft's fiction that predominantly focus on simplistic racism. By simplistic I mean that the racism espoused does not make use of metaphor or communicate anything other than the inferiority of nonwhite races, and plays up the paranoias of foreign invasion via immigration or ‘Yellow Peril.' These stories, in addition to being poorly written, have not aged well and often blur together in the mind of the reader simply because of their indistinct and repetitive racist proselytizing.
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Lovecraft's tales of familial degeneration are often discussed in relation to the racist tropes they touch upon; "Facts Concerning The Late Arthur Jermyn And His Family" alludes to early eugenic theories regarding the similarities between ‘lesser' races and simians -
Quote:AhahahaWell, then if we're making racist allusions then they at least need to be accurate ones.
Is Lovecraft openly racist in his stories? Maybe I've just forgotten it. It's been quite a while since I've read him. I'm less concerned with his personal feelings about it because he's long dead and his time is long dead. I don't judge his stories any better or worse for his xenophobia. It was a different age and, as I said, even so-called "enlightened" people of the time would still come off as incredibly condescending and racist towards black people by today's standards.
I'm just going to quote S.T. Joshi here (Joshi is a brilliant Lovecraft scholar and the author of annotated volumes of HPL's works and a biography of his life, and that barely scratches the surface of his research). Pay particular attention to the first line
Quote:There is no denying the reality of Lovecraft's racism, nor can it merely be passed off as "typical of his time," for it appears that Lovecraft expressed his views more pronouncedly (although usually not for publication) than many others of his era. It is also foolish to deny that racism enters into his fiction at key points (although I might suggest that there is a considerable element of humour and parody in that passage you cite in "Herbert West"). I find Lovecraft's racism disappointing not merely because he expressed it so frequently in fiction and letters, but because this was one area where he refused to modify his thinking in light of new evidence. In every other aspect of his thought--metaphysics, politics, economics, aesthetics--he was constantly amending his views as new information came to him; but with his racism, he stuck pretty much to the prejudices he had absorbed in the reactionary New England of the 1890s.
This is the passage he's talking about, just for reference
Quote:Originally Posted by Herbert West - ReanimatorThe match had been between Kid OBriena lubberly and now quaking youth with a most un-Hibernian hooked noseand Buck Robinson, The Harlem Smoke. The negro had been knocked out, and a moments examination shewed us that he would permanently remain so. He was a loathsome, gorilla-like thing, with abnormally long arms which I could not help calling fore legs, and a face that conjured up thoughts of unspeakable Congo secrets and tom-tom poundings under an eerie moon. The body must have looked even worse in lifebut the world holds many ugly things. -
Quote:That's them! I was trying to hang onto the ones I had but accidentally used them, or whatever. I think they went away before base storage was a thing (or possibly even bases, period).The original mez protect inspirations are still in the game, and had to be used before being mezzed:
Discipline
Strength of Will (still available in Siren's Call)
Iron Will
They were later swapped out for some new versions that could be used while mezzed:
Resolve
Determination
Sheer Willpower
Those three still exist, but they got an aesthetic makeover and became the Break Free, Emerge and Escape that we have today.
Also, there was a time when Resolves/Determinations/Sheer Willpowers were dropping along with Break Frees. I have more screenshots from around that time with the UI on, and you can see the insp trays changing, and occasionally there'd be BFs and Resolves in them together. And then shortly after that, no more Resolves in the screenshots. -
Anyone remember Resolves? (Check the insp tray.) And whatever the second tier insp was called...I think Determination. I wish I had held on to one of those just for nostalgia's sake. I even used to have some Disciplines, but I'm pretty sure they're gone now too. You can also see the old zone doors on the map; I can't remember when those changed.
(Click images to embiggen)
Good times.
These are both from 2005. -
Quote:I have that image as my current loading screenTHAT I want. Want want want want want.
In fact, I will go on record right now threatening to never make another video again for COH if I don't get that as my loading screen.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_RespiteYou can use NeoSplasher, instructions here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=287602
I thought there was a program you could download from the NeoSplasher website, which is what I did awhile back when I changed mine, but now I'm not seeing it on a quick glance...not sure why.
And I like this much, much better than the current one, but possibly not enough to change back. Smiley Marauder is pretty hilariously adorable though.
Edit: Oh, you have to upload an image to get to the page with the download link, that's kinda silly. This is the link for the program (Windows only, and clicking on it will attempt to download the exe, so be warned): http://webapps.sgspaces.net/cohstuff/click.php?id=5 -
Quote:Which is why they shouldn't have retconned States and Psyche.
Do it right (x)or don't do it at all.
Kill them off in Incarnate content. There's Incarnate Shinies there to distract anyone from caring about any inconsistencies and non-incarnates can blissfully ignore them.Quote:Agreed. I didn't even agree with the story 'reason' to killing Psyche off, mostly because it was handled so bloody badly and involved massive catching of the idiot ball.
But the total retcon from level 1 was just...ugh. It was crap, frankly. Not the writing teams finest hour... -
Quote:Small thing, but Lamashtu is actually a historical demon/goddess in Mesopotamian mythology. And I actually haven't encountered her yet so I looked her up on Paragonwiki, and they even made her an animal-headed hybrid thing, haha. Hequat's name MIGHT have been taken from Heqat/Heqet/Heket, but the similarities pretty much end there.This may be selfish to say, but that's fine by me. I never wanted "incarnation." Far as I'm concerned, they should have scrapped the whole angle when Jack left and let us gain power in some other, non-unimaginative way. Because honestly, I can think of few less imaginative ways to gain power than for it to literally be granted to me by an established god. At least be creative and go with fictional gods like Tielekku, Hequat or Lamashtu or, hell, even Lughebu. But honestly, the LAST thing I want is to be the avatar of Jehovah, not only because that brings real religion into the game, but also because I prefer to use original ideas wherever possible.
Overall, there are a bunch of deities created whole cloth for the game, but they do draw on some inspirations too. (And sometimes, you run headfirst into their own versions. I have a character, Alecto Nox, who is actually supposed to be Alecto...which is fun given CoH's Furies and how they continue to be fleshed out. I do a lot of selective ignoring.) -
Yeah, I wish he were still around. Always liked his Canon Fodder thread.
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Quote:Shane Hensley (Captain Mako) also wrote Deadlands, and Sean Dornan-Fish (Manticore) worked on it too, I think. And either of them could be who Sam is thinking of. They were pretty influential in early CoH/V.It did- Jack Emmert.
As little respect as I have for him as a game dev, he was a very talented author of pen & paper RPG supplements including one of my all time favorites, Children o' the Atom for one of my all time favorite fantasy worlds, Deadlands: Hell on Earth.
I think that experience served him well "worldbuilding" the CoH backstory, although it gave him some backwards notions of what's fun. There are a lot of things that work terrifically well in a pen and paper setting that are DEATH in an MMO, and I don't think he's figured out what they are to this day.