[ QUOTE ]
Also, what about villains that didn't earn 'Jail Bird?' Will there be a spot in RV for them to go to get that?
[/ QUOTE ]
Villians have always had a chance to earn Jail Bird, while heroes have not always had a chance at Isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that villains can get isolator too, if thats the case, then heroes should get jail bird too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now we begin to see the continued shortsightedness of the Devs' handling of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, ye of little faith.
Isolator is marked as "Hero Only". Villains can kill the contaminated for 100 years, and never get the badge.
Only Heroes can get the badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about when side switching is put in? >_>
here is how it will play:
*Full team of 8 badgehunters camps the tram
*Lone villain snipes the spawn and leaps away giggling madly
*Full team of enraged badgehunters kick the villain up and down the zone, killing him as many times as possible
* Other heroes hear the Tale of Woe and join the hunt
*Other villains hear the Tale of Woe and quite sensibly attack the pillboxes while the heroes are distracted
*Villains take Recluses' Victory. Paragon City ceases to exist.
It's not griefing! It's a Masterful Plan For World Domination! 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps, but its quite telling that Positron chose to respond to my rather serious accusations over Isolators overall shortcomings by addressing the most minor, trivial aspect of it. The fact that, gods forbid, a few villains might get Isolator in RV was more important to the Devs thinking on this implementation than all the other ramifications merely adds to my misgivings about this. Opening Pandoras Box comes to mind...
[/ QUOTE ]
It always astonishes me that devs still post here knowing the likleyhood that whatever they say (or don't say) will get analyzed, dissected, torn apart and put back together again.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have voted with my time and effort in this game.
I have played CoH/CoV for literally thousands of hours.
I have enjoyed the vast majority of my experience with a generally outstanding product.
But it always appalls me that any of us players should accept being treated in an insulting, sadistic manner by the Devs for any reason and then roll over to say thank you sir may I have another... The Devs are big boys and girls so I think they can take it. It would be a disservice to them and the player community in general not to react appropriately and provide constructive criticism when clearly called for.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
I think words like insulting and sadistic are a bit overmuch, if this is gonna remain a levelheaded discussion.
The only thing that really bothers me about this method for getting Isolator, is that it flies in the face of one of the main design principles of the game. It's now gonna be a camped spawn from here until the nth of never, and that's something I hoped never to see in this game. Even if it is 'just for a badge'
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
[ QUOTE ]
I think words like insulting and sadistic are a bit overmuch, if this is gonna remain a levelheaded discussion.
The only thing that really bothers me about this method for getting Isolator, is that it flies in the face of one of the main design principles of the game. It's now gonna be a camped spawn from here until the nth of never, and that's something I hoped never to see in this game. Even if it is 'just for a badge'
[/ QUOTE ]
Ya know, when Issue 5 came out and it was known how difficult it would be to get Believer, there was much the same concern. Granted, there are no Villains in Croatoa to camp but for a while, competition was high among Heroes to nab that one shot spawn.
I think this will go the same way. It may take a few months for it to calm down but eventually, there will come a day when that loan spawn is just wandering around with no one to kill it.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
yeah, but you can't ignore the things they did to Sally to eliminate those concerns. changing the timer to an hour or so, and lowering the badge requirement to 2. That cleared up the competition and camping pretty quickly, because everyone who wanted it was able to be throughput quickly. The same hero that manages to snag 2 contaminated in RV while he's working his 5hr badge (if he's lucky) will still be there in 2-3 weeks trying to get the badge.
When it goes to live, I'm going to try to promote hero cooperation when it comes to this thing. At the very least, every effort should be made to get full teams of 8 in on each kill. If it means tp foe and Hold in a secluded spot until the team is ready, so be it.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, but you can't ignore the things they did to Sally to eliminate those concerns. changing the timer to an hour or so, and lowering the badge requirement to 2. That cleared up the competition and camping pretty quickly, because everyone who wanted it was able to be throughput quickly. The same hero that manages to snag 2 contaminated in RV while he's working his 5hr badge (if he's lucky) will still be there in 2-3 weeks trying to get the badge.
When it goes to live, I'm going to try to promote hero cooperation when it comes to this thing. At the very least, every effort should be made to get full teams of 8 in on each kill. If it means tp foe and Hold in a secluded spot until the team is ready, so be it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Those are good points and I wholeheartedly agree on the Hero Co-op that will be needed to get this badge for those of us who want/need it. My SG is already planning some teams that will be focused in RV for this very idea.
Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
[ QUOTE ]
And I still disagree with this belief by various people in the Pro-Isolator crowd that everything has been one big screwjob, slap in the face, or whatever for us Pre-I2 players.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not everything, just Isolator. I'll put it to you in a set of related questions...
Up until RV Isolator was introduced, what possible logical reason would the Devs have to place any one single badge in the game that a subset of its in-game player population could never earn?
What possible game mechanic purpose was served that doesn't appear for all intents and purposes to be completely arbitrary and easily avoidable?
Was Isolator limited by location the way it was in Outbreak by accident or by design?
The fact that the Devs have finally done something now to address Isolator is a tacit admission by them that there was -something- wrong with it. Why did it take well over a year to get the 'solution' we got - not a sophisticated, fair to all, reasonable redesign but a near pathetic afterthought band aid hack that a 3rd grader probably could have come up with in 5 minutes?
In summary Pro-Isolators only have themselves to blame for pissing Positron off enough to get RV Isolator instead of something more reasonable. Sadly I'm worldly enough to realize the RV Isolator opportunity is going to be 'as good as it gets'. After the stupidity of the original way Isolator worked I suppose it was a pipe dream to think that the fix for it was going to be any less idiotic.
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[ QUOTE ]
I think words like insulting and sadistic are a bit overmuch, if this is gonna remain a levelheaded discussion.
The only thing that really bothers me about this method for getting Isolator, is that it flies in the face of one of the main design principles of the game. It's now gonna be a camped spawn from here until the nth of never, and that's something I hoped never to see in this game. Even if it is 'just for a badge'
[/ QUOTE ]
This could very well be the slippery slope that this game is heading for, and it saddens me to think that cries for Isolator might have started it.
As far as my use of 'overmuch' terminology, if this otherwise wonderful game descends into the mire of those things that bother you like spawn camping, then my choice of words will be the least of anyone's concern. If it takes colorful language to warn people to be careful what they wish for then so be it...
Loth 50 Fire/Rad Controller [1392 Badges] [300 non-AE Souvenirs]
Ryver 50 Ele� Blaster [1392 Badges]
Silandra 50 Peacebringer [1138 Badges] [No Redside Badges]
--{=====> Virtue ♀
[color=red]C[color=blue]o[color=green]l[color=pink]o[color=lightblue]r[color=lightgreen]f[color=orange]u[color=grey]l[color=white] l[color=blue]a[color=red]n[color=green]g[color=orange]u[color=purple]a[color=darkgreen]g[color=black]e[color=yellow] i[color=red]s[color=lightblue] p[color=lightgreen]r[color=purple]e[color=pink]t[color=orange]t[color=green]y.
[ QUOTE ]
Not everything, just Isolator. I'll put it to you in a set of related questions...
Up until RV Isolator was introduced, what possible logical reason would the Devs have to place any one single badge in the game that a subset of its in-game player population could never earn?
[/ QUOTE ]
Except you CAN earn it. Just not with characters that have already bypassed the requirements needed to get it. Just like creating a hero now cannot get the first year anniversery badge.
[ QUOTE ]
What possible game mechanic purpose was served that doesn't appear for all intents and purposes to be completely arbitrary and easily avoidable?
Was Isolator limited by location the way it was in Outbreak by accident or by design?
[/ QUOTE ]
Isolator is an "easter egg" type of badge. It was never intended as anything more then a fun little reward for those crazy enough to actually screw around in the tutorial. If anything, Cryptics only fault was being Naive enough to think it's playerbase could act like rational adults instead of rabid overreacting badge [censored].
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that the Devs have finally done something now to address Isolator is a tacit admission by them that there was -something- wrong with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it isn't. It just means they got tired of people [censored], moaning, and blowing things way out of proportion.
[ QUOTE ]
Why did it take well over a year to get the 'solution' we got - not a sophisticated, fair to all, reasonable redesign but a near pathetic afterthought band aid hack that a 3rd grader probably could have come up with in 5 minutes?
In summary Pro-Isolators only have themselves to blame for pissing Positron off enough to get RV Isolator instead of something more reasonable. Sadly I'm worldly enough to realize the RV Isolator opportunity is going to be 'as good as it gets'. After the stupidity of the original way Isolator worked I suppose it was a pipe dream to think that the fix for it was going to be any less idiotic.
[/ QUOTE ]
The way Isolator worked is fine. Hell, if anything was wrong, it was the ability for people to gain badges from the completion of missions that were not their own (And hopefully something that will be fixed in the future, but I'll save this for another discussion).
But if anything, this solution was intended to appease not only those who wanted Isolator, but those of us who didn't want it messed with, all while making a challenge that wouldn't make its continued existance in the Tutorial pointless. And while I don't like that they did it, it's a decent compromise.
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that the Devs have finally done something now to address Isolator is a tacit admission by them that there was -something- wrong with it. Why did it take well over a year to get the 'solution' we got - not a sophisticated, fair to all, reasonable redesign but a near pathetic afterthought band aid hack that a 3rd grader probably could have come up with in 5 minutes?
In summary Pro-Isolators only have themselves to blame for pissing Positron off enough to get RV Isolator instead of something more reasonable. Sadly I'm worldly enough to realize the RV Isolator opportunity is going to be 'as good as it gets'. After the stupidity of the original way Isolator worked I suppose it was a pipe dream to think that the fix for it was going to be any less idiotic. IMO
[/ QUOTE ]
Corrected that for you. Please dont assume to hold your opinion as the one held by all Pro-Isolators. You know the old saw about assuming...
Perhaps the devs started paying attention when the isolator threads became a discussion instead of the usual - "Iwannitgimme', 'no you're a doodyhead' debacle.
I understand.. I think we all understand *you* dont like this compromise. Get it or dont get it. Whatever floats your boat. But I think if your arguements are going to continue on this downward spiral of name calling, it's time to agree to disagree.
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
Look, as long as any of the stalkers arent gonna be a bunch of @#$%##'s about this, im sure everyone that wants the badge can get it in no time.
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
[ QUOTE ]
Look, as long as any of the stalkers arent gonna be a bunch of @#$%##'s about this, im sure everyone that wants the badge can get it in no time.
[/ QUOTE ]
What does stalkers have to do with Isolator?
if you are talking about them going in undetected to kill off the single spawn, hell any villain can do that.
Remember this is a level 50 pvp zone, where almost everyone have ++perception and can see stalkers.
But would be nice is if the spawn timer were reduced some because as it stands now, you will be lucky to get 1-2 kills a day. And to kill 100 of them is a long way away from getting this badge. So you are looking at 2 months or more depending if you get exactly 2 kills a day.
But whatever it takes I'm sure I will get it and so will many others. Because I plan on spending a lot of time in RV when this goes live 
So much to do, so this badge should go pretty quick or at least seem that way considering I will be doing other things rather then just camping a spot for hours on end.
But yes, there will be many heroes arguing over the kill, petitions sent in say "I was here waiting and someone else killed him" blah blah blah .
And since the contaminated is as it is, I will kill it as soon as I see it. I will not be advertising it in broadcast if thats what you mean...lol
I'm always on a team anyway so i will kill it as soon as I see it.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look, as long as any of the stalkers arent gonna be a bunch of @#$%##'s about this, im sure everyone that wants the badge can get it in no time.
[/ QUOTE ]
What does stalkers have to do with Isolator?
if you are talking about them going in undetected to kill off the single spawn, hell any villain can do that.
Remember this is a level 50 pvp zone, where almost everyone have ++perception and can see stalkers.
But would be nice is if the spawn timer were reduced some because as it stands now, you will be lucky to get 1-2 kills a day. And to kill 100 of them is a long way away from getting this badge. So you are looking at 2 months or more depending if you get exactly 2 kills a day.
But whatever it takes I'm sure I will get it and so will many others. Because I plan on spending a lot of time in RV when this goes live
So much to do, so this badge should go pretty quick or at least seem that way considering I will be doing other things rather then just camping a spot for hours on end.
But yes, there will be many heroes arguing over the kill, petitions sent in say "I was here waiting and someone else killed him" blah blah blah .
And since the contaminated is as it is, I will kill it as soon as I see it. I will not be advertising it in broadcast if thats what you mean...lol
I'm always on a team anyway so i will kill it as soon as I see it.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol, what I mean is when your about to kill a contaminated and a stalker as's you then kill's it, I remember when warburg came out before stalkers were higher enough to enter warburg, it was great, gotta love choas
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
Yeah, I see what ya mean. Unfortunately Stalkers can no longer one shot you unless you have already taken damage.
And considering Im a tank, it would take 3 stalkers to AS me at once to stop me from killing that contaminated
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
lucky
My Lego Models http://www.flickr.com/photos/30369639@N07/ lemur lad: God you can't be that stupid... I'm on at the same time as you for once, and not 20 minutes into it you give me something worth petitioning?Lady-Dee: Hey my fat keeps me warm in the winter and shady in the summer.
[ QUOTE ]
But would be nice is if the spawn timer were reduced some because as it stands now, you will be lucky to get 1-2 kills a day. And to kill 100 of them is a long way away from getting this badge. So you are looking at 2 months or more depending if you get exactly 2 kills a day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see NO problem with the spawn rate as it currently stands. It took me 2+ months to redo all the levels when I rerolled. So, this is perfect compensation. When are you all going to realize this? The way its designed right this minute is to factor in all the pain & suffering that those of us who choose reroll had to go through. Period. End of discussion. I (being one of the adamant anti-isolator crowd) and very pleased with this implementation. Deal.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But would be nice is if the spawn timer were reduced some because as it stands now, you will be lucky to get 1-2 kills a day. And to kill 100 of them is a long way away from getting this badge. So you are looking at 2 months or more depending if you get exactly 2 kills a day.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see NO problem with the spawn rate as it currently stands. It took me 2+ months to redo all the levels when I rerolled. So, this is perfect compensation. When are you all going to realize this? The way its designed right this minute is to factor in all the pain & suffering that those of us who choose reroll had to go through. Period. End of discussion. I (being one of the adamant anti-isolator crowd) and very pleased with this implementation. Deal.
[/ QUOTE ]
No reason to puff up your chest, I clearly stated that Im happy with the way things are now. Read my other posts and you will see that.
I simply made a comment that "it would be nice" I never said BS make it easier, this is total bullcrap, Im unhappy.
So try not to get to defesive without knowing what my views are on this subject.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
Beef_Cake,
My comment wasn't directed at you perse. You just happen to be the most recent to post such a comment. My post is more or less addressed to everyone who feels this implementation is too much.
Well when you quoted me, it showed me you were talking directly back to me, so sorry if I took a bite off of your toes on that post
Its all good.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
Does it still spawn at level 1?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that villains can get isolator too, if thats the case, then heroes should get jail bird too.
[/ QUOTE ]
Now we begin to see the continued shortsightedness of the Devs' handling of Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, ye of little faith.
Isolator is marked as "Hero Only". Villains can kill the contaminated for 100 years, and never get the badge.
Only Heroes can get the badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
One thing I am curious on is the hero's can now get the badge from the training zone at later times.
Will villains have a chance to get the training zone exploration jail badge at a later time? I missed it on my first 40 which is my badge toon and I really dont want to have to start a new one just to get it.
I understand the hero side is a bit different since that badge did not exist for quite a while when the game came out so there was no way to get it at all but would be really nice if we had a chance to get the villain training badge again if we missed it.
[ QUOTE ]
However, I feel like those of us who have been loyal to the game, having created our main badge hunters well before I-2, are being punished. Why should this badge be so outrageously difficult to get.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because it needed to be at least as painful to get as it was to reroll upon Issue 2. You had the chance to get Isolator and all special event badges back then, but you chose not to. Now people continually forget about those who did, in fact, get Isolator in spite of playing prior to Issue 2.
Whether it is at that level of diffulty or even harder is up for debate. In terms of time it'll probably be roughly equivalent.