Tremere_NA

is I14 live yet?

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I think it's pretty crappy that they're giving out a permanent in-game item that everyone isn't reasonably able to get.

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Read my lips: its a marketing hook.

Its a great way to bridge awareness of the game in non-gaming communities - plus it is a cool incentive to offer potential new subcribers that've never played the game before. I mean, hey - look how much you guys are going gaga all over it. If its making you druel, just think how well it'll work to snag new subscribers.


So yeah, I agree with the Marketing gimmick - however, I think its a bad idea to advertise this on the front page. Yeah it raises visibility of the event for a select few that are willing and/or able to go, but it alienates the larger population who have been wanting this costume option for their toons for years.

Hey ho, life goes on. Come back at Halloween and be pleasantly suprised at what you earn from trick-or-treating (at least that's my guess).

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Yeah hook those new subscribers good call! Meanwhile take someone who has been paying for over 4 years and tell them they have no recourse to obtain something they want. Marketing at its best!!

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I was gonna reply but Mr_Zek said exactly what I was going to.

Marketing failed miserably on this one.

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Can we get a clean list of all broken IO's ?

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hmm... is it time to reboot the thread and condense the list?

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i12 should be the next patch to Test.

I'd make an updated list so that those who make it into beta can follow up on the list. Add the list here. Then those who make it can beg for fixes & follow up on the list (yet again).


Ofcourse this should lead to yet another updated list post release of i12 to live which should be a new thread. ie) swap stickies.

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If Lighthouse, can not even tell us accurately the requirements to form task forces are, then why the heck should we trust them to fix this properly?

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Because Lighthouse = Dev

True Story

Lighthouse is so far removed from the development of this game its sickening. His job (which most of you clearly dont understand) is Forum Moderator. He has ZERO say in the game. He has ZERO say in the programming of the game. He has ZERO say in the decissions of the game.

Its not far removed to realize that he doesnt know everything about this game. Even if his cubicle is 10ft from Castle's.

I'm really shocked at how few of you understand that.

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OOO but you did

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Huh?

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Do you seriously not see how a farmer could start a TF set at a minimum of 8 members, and then run the mission ad nauseum as a farm? The "fillers" don't even need to be there. All the farmer needs is one other (an alt account) to stay in the TF.

How does that not benefit farmers?

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As I've stated numerous times in this thread...


Farmers spawn maps set for sizes of 6 to avoid bosses. This change would force them to fight bosses. Thats added danger plus it slows them down. This cuts into the influence / hour ratio & thus will be avoided.

Besides at lvl 50 your choices for TFs are Shard or STF. The Shard puts you against Nem, CoT & Rularu.... 3 villian groups that a farmer would want to stay far away from. Or you could try the STF which puts you against Arachnos, which isnt any better.

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And all were proving false.

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Oh I've read this thread...

And I countered every claim made by those in this thread that this change would benefit farmers.

No, this change will NOT.

But again I ask... please provide details stating how it will... so I can once again shoot it down.

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Hey Tremere? You've got Castle's job wrong too. He doesn't have anything to do with mission, sf, tf, trial design. Those fall under the jurisdiction of Posi and to a lesser extent Hero 1.

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I dont recall saying what Castles job was. Nice try though

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If Lighthouse can not even tell us accurately the requirements to form task forces are, then why the heck should we trust them to fix this properly?

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followed by:

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The information given to him or that he presented was clearly in error. That he passed that information to us as fact without checking those facts shows a breakdown.

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Contradiction much.

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LOL seeing as I jsut did this yesterday on my fire/kin and know of 5 others already liking that this is making farming easier and the pages of discussion on this in this thread?


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I'm well aware of pages in this thread where I show that farming will not be impacted, if thats what you are refering to.

But please... provide details.

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Also one would think by now that devs can tell when certain changes will make farming EASIER.

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Ignoring everything else you said, because this popped out at me..

Where are you getting this information?
Why do you feel this will make farming easier?

There is no basis for that claim. Zero. Zip. Notta.

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago.

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Huh?

We already know that TF changes are in the works. Thats a Red Name stated fact.

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Unless you provide me with a redname quote I call bs.

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It was in an Interview IIRC... currently searching for it, but it does exist.

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Might be one thing if he had a valid point or even evidence and documentation to support his ideals.

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This comes from the individual who stated that this change impacted the markets so badly that a Miracle was sold for 100mil.


Thanks for the laugh

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If Lighthouse, can not even tell us accurately the requirements to form task forces are, then why the heck should we trust them to fix this properly?

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Because Lighthouse = Dev

True Story

Lighthouse is so far removed from the development of this game its sickening. His job (which most of you clearly dont understand) is Forum Moderator. He has ZERO say in the game. He has ZERO say in the programming of the game. He has ZERO say in the decissions of the game.

Its not far removed to realize that he doesnt know everything about this game. Even if his cubicle is 10ft from Castle's.

I'm really shocked at how few of you understand that.

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I'm not going to assume that at all. Since those requests for tf changes were requested a long time ago.

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Huh?

We already know that TF changes are in the works. Thats a Red Name stated fact.

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you don't know it's being worked on, you know nothing. period.

until a red name posts, all you're doing is making speculation saying things like this.

stop.

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You mean like the completely baseles speculation that this change will crush the economy & impact the markets so severly that this change has to be reverted?

You mean like that?

Thanks for the laugh

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Lighthouse opened the door to all this by saying:
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We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.

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Which shows that NCNC understands that this change affects rewards, length, and team size requirements.

The point is why don't you?

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*sigh* My point is, as I've been saying all along, is that its probably already being worked on Internally (and probably even apart of I12)

Just because its not immediate, which is what you want, makes it wrong?!? No, just no. If its in the pipes, then its perfectly acceptable.


Now, with that said.... if by I12 we havent heard of alterations being made to TFs... then trust me, I'll be the first one leading the crusade to have them altered Immediately.

But as it stands this minute.... we have to assume that they are well aware & are already taking steps to address these issues. Thus anything we do, say, etc in this regard are purely suggestions.

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The rewards of a TF, the length of various TFs, and the team size requirements of those TFs should all be addressed elsewhere.

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Absolutely not!

They are tied so closely to this change that to put this change in place without fixing these issues means that this fix is broken.

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You mean like sending I11 live with Purples Set Bonuses not working when exemping & not being fixed for 3 months later.... you mean like sending I11 live with the End Mod Sets not working & not being fixed for 3 months later...

etc

etc

etc

etc

etc


This is the nature of the industry. Expect it

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All this change does is ensure that you comply with what the NPC states, has stated for years, and will continue to state.

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In real terms, what this change does is introduce a cartload more obligatory work in the hope that you will keep a team of a certain size in order to tackle it.

Increased obligatory work for a mere CHANCE of adequate compensation = very very bad.

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QFT. If all the Pool C recipes were created equal, I could see disagreeing with this statement. But seeing as how no one in their right mind can dare say they are, this statement is spot on Lady.

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Noone is questioning the discrepencies in Pool C, nor is anyone disagreeing that several of the TFs need to be reworked. And most assuredly, noone is arguing against that the number requirements of certain TFs need to be altered.


But those issues are removed from the topic at hand & as I already stated, should be addressed in the Suggestions Forums.

This change is designed to address the exploiting of 'Soft Loading'... Period.

The rewards of a TF, the length of various TFs, and the team size requirements of those TFs should all be addressed elsewhere.

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Because this change has no impact on the teaming aspect of Task Forces.

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The teaming aspect is the whole POINT of the change - see below.

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But the fact remains, what you are talking about is another issue entirely removed from this change & should be addressed in its own thread... in the Suggestion Forum.

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The issue is at the very CORE of this change. As the Devs themselves spelled out in post one:

' We want to continue to offer good rewards based on a group accomplishment through such missions and maintaining that requirement is the reason for this change.'

Get it? They want to maintain the requirement for a group. People were doing large swathes of the TFs without groups. They don't want them to do that any more.

They apparently think that a randomly chosen Pool C recipe is a 'good reward' for obliging a whole group to go through the whole TF start to finish.

My contention is that it's NOT a 'good reward', and their logic is thus radically flawed. They've provided the change, and their reasons for it; I'm pointing out the flaw in their reasoning. So, your assertion that this belongs on the Suggestions Forum is incorrect.

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*sigh* You missed My point.

The NPCS have & will continue to state: "You need X Number of People on your team to form the Task Force"

Anything greater than "X" value... Good for you & you may begin the TF

Anything less than "X" value... Sorry, but the NPC will NOT allow you to form the TaskForce


All this change does is ensure that you comply with what the NPC states, has stated for years, and will continue to state.


*EDIT* What you are saying is that what hte NPC states as the value for "X" should be altered... to which I already said that in many cases I agree with you.

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You don't get it. I'm not talking about this change in the passage you quoted. I'm talking about ways to encourage people to team in general.

I don't think anyone disputes, for example, that 'you need 3 people to click the glowies simultaneously' was a really bad idea and didn't encourage teaming like it was meant to.

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Quite the opposite... I get exactly what you are saying.... and what you are saying should be a thread in the SUGGESTIONS FORUM. Because this change has no impact on the teaming aspect of Task Forces. The NPCs who state "you need X to form a task force" are the same NPCs who stated that before & after this patch.


Heck check the thread... I've said several times that I'd be surprised if the Devs weren’t already addressing some of the TF inconsistencies & nuances internally. I'd be surprised in fact if I12 doesn’t address numerous TF problems (such as the absurdity of the Shard TFs).

But the fact remains, what you are talking about is another issue entirely removed from this change & should be addressed in its own thread... in the Suggestion Forum.

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Time to address the original post, I think.

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Such missions have always been intended to be group activities, hence the reason for the minimum group size requirement to start them.

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There are many ways to incentivise group activity. The above is a negative way. 'You cannot do this unless you have a group of at least size X.' A positive way would be 'If you have a group of at least size X, the rewards are better' or 'This challenge is so hard that you ought to bring a group of at least size X to deal with it.'


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First you state that the following is the result of this change & its negative:

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You cannot do this unless you have a group of at least size X.

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Um Huh?

Thats not at all what this change says or does!!! Nowhere does it state that if you start a TF that requires 8 members to start that if someone should quit and you are left with 7 members, that the resulting challenge is uncompletable. It simply does not state that nor is it implied. Will the TF be more challenging, absolutely. But has the TF become uncompleteable. Nope, it sure hasnt. Now granted if the numbers of the team drop to 4 on a TF designed for 8, then yes it may become too much of a challenge. However, as Lighthouse tried to point out, this is why its a TEAM ACTIVITY. You shouldnt approach a TF which requires 8 members (as noted by the NPC who gives the TF) lightly. Attempting to complete that TF with a PUG of ppl you dont know is already asking for trouble. Luckily, the # of TFs which require an 8 man team to start is rather small and I suspect that it is already being addressed internally.



Secondly, you state that they should have worded it in a positive manor such as

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'If you have a group of at least size X, the rewards are better

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This is simply NOT true. The TF completion bonuses are not greater if a smaller team completes the task. Now if you are talking about larger spawns = more infl.... um isnt that what ppl Padding mishs was already doing?!? This changes nothing.


Then you state this option:

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This challenge is so hard that you ought to bring a group of at least size X to deal with it.'

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Change that 'OUGHT TO' to 'MUST' & you have essentially what the NPCS already tell you when you agree to form a TF. I repeat, this changes nothing.

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Inflation isn't that fast. Most don't even know about this yet.


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Thank you

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There is going to be insane inflation though as people solo the first missions of TFs.

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Huh? What good does soloing the first missions of a TF do?

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the price jacking is JUST starting.

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The Miracle you stated that sold for 100mil sold on 2/5 .... well before the Patch even went live.

Where are you getting your information from?

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OO really? Did you make a note of how many are currently for sale?

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And the lack of them for sale is something "new"? As in just recently? Just since the last patch?

Um No. The lack of items for sale on the BM is a whole nother problem... completely independent of this change. You are mistakenly combining the two.

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IF they really want to fix farming, they'll make it so you can't reset missions.

I'm not saying that would be popular, mind you...

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and probably result in a loss of a significant number of accounts. Which will look real bad to ncsoft and the current devs future.

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Wow, with so much animosity & angst towards the Devs & their decisions... why do you still pay to play?

Perhaps because you are over exaggerating the severity of this & other changes?!?