Thanks Devs, the latest buff is a step in the right direction at least. But I'm fire/energy.
I was on test trying to get a mayhem mission. I set it on villainous and the newspaper missions where mind-numbingly boring but not the Mayhem Mission thanks to a surprise appearance by elite boss Valkyrie and her giant sword. 
Imo we should get 80% damage for melee since corruptors get 80 for their secondary and controlloers get 80-88 and we take a big risk to melee. Blappers can get in and out thanks to their high damage melee attacks while it takes doms much longer to kill. exposing them to more risk.
Tankers get a .8 melee modifier, I think that's a pretty good precedent. They don't have any ranged attacks, but they do have buckets of HP, amazing defenses, and they're amazing at control.
That control, of course, is making enemies attack the least attractive target on the scene. Taunt's got a fast recharge and always hits, and Punchvoke's a great addition. It's pretty effective when you get rolling.
Wow, Lucas, I think you really just hit on something.
Tanker Damage
Blaster HP
Give Dom's those and keep Domination the way it is now on Test, and I think we'll finally be standing on almost even ground with the other squishie at's out there. And yes, I do mean Tanker level damage for both melee AND our ranged attacks. I think it's justified given that our control times are short and we have absolutely no defenses, relying as so many have put it, on an "active defense". This will put us above our squishie cousins the Defender and Controller, but not threaten the real damage dealer AT's except for those 90 seconds when Domination is popped. And for those 90 seconds it's popped, well damn we should be able to two or three shot a held squishie so I see no problem.
But the Tanker range modifier is 50% while for Dominators it is 65%... You want to nerf our ranged damage by 23%?!
If it was me, I would boost our ranged modifier to 70% (thus still giving melee an edge) and give us blaster level hp - I believe that would put us where we ought to be.
Brev, I know nothing about range modifiers. I just know Tankers do considerably more damage than we do, but not as much as blasters, scrappers and coors. We need to be doing that Tanker level of damage and have blaster hp, that's all I meant.
The only other thing I would add to Tanker damage and Blaster hp is is Mezz defense.
With the amount of mezz attacks from critters in the upper content in CoH, I assume the same will be true about CoV. The armors in the PPP won't matter if we get stunned/held on a mission. Also, if we get mezzed, we can't apply our active defenses. I wont even get into our troubles in PvP-land.
Tankers can't toss off Domination every four minutes and nearly double their damage like we can. Asking for 80% is probably too much.
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I'd much rather see Dominators (and Defenders for that matter) buffed than Controllers nerfed. There's no logical reason why any class who doesn't even have somuch as a [censored] attack set should be approaching the damage of a class which does. It's blows away the whole notion of even HAVING sets dedicated to damage if you don't need one to deal signifigant amounts of damage.
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We've had this argument before. I've seen numbers like 300-400 tossed around for Controllers by posters. They approach, by your own calculations, unbuffed Corrupters. Defenders complain about Controllers (They offer better damage, nearly as good buffs, and Control). We complain about Controllers (They offer better damage, as good control, and buffs). Corruptors haven't, but what do you bet when people change sides... (They offer nearly as good damage, just as good buffs, and Control), and you never really did say what you thought about it, except to say you felt Controller damage was exaggerated.
Because our melee now matches unbuffed Corruptor ranged damage. If Controllers aren't reaching that point, then we do more damage than them in general, and far more when we hit Domination.
IF they're doing more damage than us at this point, they're overpowered. To have us consistently hitting 300-400 damage is PROBABLY too much. It's certainly too much for Controllers.
So I see it as FAR more likely that, in this balancing game, Controllers will get nerfed. If we get buffed to the point where we exceed their damage by enough to compensate for the fact that they can also buff, we'll be better in damage then Corruptors with Holds to boot, and then Corruptors will need buffing to remain the premiere damage dealers, at which point they overpower Stalkers and Brutes so we have to buff them and...
Well, you get the idea. Nerf Controllers in abstentia, because everyone gets buffed but them.
So, again, which is it? Are controllers too powerful, or is their damage levels exaggerated? You continue to compare them to Dominators, continue to say that Controllers shouldn't be nerfed, and then shut your trap as soon as someone brings up Defenders or Corruptors as though they don't matter in this little game, but they do. They're just as affected as Controllers as we are.
You can't have it both ways. They either do too much damage (which includes in comparison to us), or they don't.
Its this simple. With containment and their Epic Blasts in PvP they do too much damage. I say let them keep their PvE value but they need to be toned down in PvP. Ive seen them out blast a blaster from range. (Fire Epic)
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Its this simple. With containment and their Epic Blasts in PvP they do too much damage. I say let them keep their PvE value but they need to be toned down in PvP. Ive seen them out blast a blaster from range. (Fire Epic)
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First, as I understand it, Controllers get to pick between Fireball OR Mez protection from their EPPs (I could be wrong)
So they're either "overpowered" with damage or "overpowered" with Mez protection.
To be fair, we don't have our PPPs yet to compare. We also get fireballs (they just don't double in damage when hitting held targets which is, honestly, a big deal). We get nice armor and another cool pet. Maybe... it'll make the difference?
I'm kinda skeptical (especially after realizing how PPPs work and the fact that our AoE attack is built assuming we don't already have AoE attacks, which we do), but we'll see.
Or they are a bubbler and take Fire Epic and Get mez protection.
They do triple damage in PvP. Thats right Triple.
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Or they are a bubbler and take Fire Epic and Get mez protection.
They do triple damage in PvP. Thats right Triple.
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That certainly explains why I'm seeing the huge numbers I do on the forums.
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They do triple damage in PvP. Thats right Triple.
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Only against other players, not against mobs such as turrets.
Seems to me the same sort of mechanic (and the same justification!) could be used to give us triple damage in PvP when we have Domination up. I could live with that...
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We get nice armor and another cool pet.
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
Maybe the problem I have is how I see my role on a team. I compare myself in role to a Tanker. I am to control the agro then dish out enough damage to eliminate anything that has escaped. A Tanker does this by Taunt, Passive defenses/damage mitigation and high hit point. Obviously they need mez protection to do their job (Holds drop all toggles and prevent Taunting.) I do it by eliminating the incoming damage then mopping up what's left. Now I will admit that a held opponent is the best opponent. The issues that I have is that we have only pool power defenses/damage mitigation (taken care of in the PPP) but have low hit points, weak damage (which the devs have partially corrected) and no mez protection. We get held, we're done for (very evident in PvP.)
While getting Tanker damage on my ranged attacks isn't likely, I don't see a problem with getting 75% on ranged and 80% on melee. I face the same risks that Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers do without several of their benefits.
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They do triple damage in PvP. Thats right Triple.
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Only against other players, not against mobs such as turrets.
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I can't say how much damage a Controller is doing to turrets really bothers me. With a heavy behind you, taking a pillboxes turrets out is so fast that I can't imagine most classes even bothering to waste their endurance helping it.
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Seems to me the same sort of mechanic (and the same justification!) could be used to give us triple damage in PvP when we have Domination up. I could live with that...
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Although I'm keen on Dominators being improved, I have to say I all ready kill people pretty damn fast when Domination is up. I hate to say it, but I really think this is an example of Containment in PvP being "too good" rather than Domination being "not good enough." A non-damage focused class shouldn't be hitting for 400-600 damage - ever.
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets. 
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets.
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true, but you can have a mob turn on itself, having several "pets" at a time. 
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We get nice armor and another cool pet.
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
Maybe the problem I have is how I see my role on a team. I compare myself in role to a Tanker. I am to control the agro then dish out enough damage to eliminate anything that has escaped. A Tanker does this by Taunt, Passive defenses/damage mitigation and high hit point. Obviously they need mez protection to do their job (Holds drop all toggles and prevent Taunting.) I do it by eliminating the incoming damage then mopping up what's left. Now I will admit that a held opponent is the best opponent. The issues that I have is that we have only pool power defenses/damage mitigation (taken care of in the PPP) but have low hit points, weak damage (which the devs have partially corrected) and no mez protection. We get held, we're done for (very evident in PvP.)
While getting Tanker damage on my ranged attacks isn't likely, I don't see a problem with getting 75% on ranged and 80% on melee. I face the same risks that Tankers, Scrappers, Brutes and Stalkers do without several of their benefits.
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Well, my PPP post is admitadly skeptical.
And you have me in a bind. I also think we need more HP (blaster-level, as how they fight and how we fight is similar), and I would much rather have my pets out all the time than dragging them out once in a while, even if that meant having our pets reduced.
(though it strikes me that they keep the pets on a limited timer to avoid the "Massive Swarm of pets" that people already hate about from Masterminds. Imagine a full team of villains with all their pets out all the time? I't s a freaking army...)
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(though it strikes me that they keep the pets on a limited timer to avoid the "Massive Swarm of pets" that people already hate about from Masterminds. Imagine a full team of villains with all their pets out all the time? I't s a freaking army...)
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Worse..
Imagine RV with every single villain having at least 1 pet.
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets.
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true, but you can have a mob turn on itself, having several "pets" at a time.
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Ya. Those would be the pets you don't get any xp benefit from and who are uncontrollable. Wow. You can have my share.
Just a thought on the damage buff. Castle has said in other posts when they make changes they usually make small ones (like the taunt change in pvp) see how they work then move them up or down accordingly. That leads me to beleive that the damage buff started as a very small change and the devs are seeing how it affects dominator play style. If they find that its not enough (which I personally don't think it but thats just my opinion) the other powers might get a damage increase as well (if not more of an increase to melee). I guess we will see how it shakes out. More or less I think devs don't want to over do it and raise expectations too high only to bring them crashing down. my two cents.
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The unrechargeable 4/15 pet is very debateable on coolness. Being a Grav, the last thing I really need is a 27% of the time pet.
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Being mind/psi, all my pets are 27% of the time pets.
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true, but you can have a mob turn on itself, having several "pets" at a time.
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Ya. Those would be the pets you don't get any xp benefit from and who are uncontrollable. Wow. You can have my share.
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xp benefit is not 100% accurate in the post above, you technically get more pets for a shorter period of time, and although there is an xp decrease for confused attacked mobs your xp/sec (or minute) increases as you are incurring less potential debt and increasing the rate of which mobs are defeated.
On the other point, the other dom/controller pets are not really controllable either save that they follow us around.
But in order to get any xp, you have to first hit the dang thing at least once. If THEY are not dead when the whammie wears off they'll come after your hide. I just don't like people calling them pets, that's all. They aren't pets. You don't summon them at will. You have to hit to affect them.
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btw a mini-containment would also be nice, and allieviate many ppl's complaints of damage
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My understanding was that dominators already had mini-containment. Do they not have X2 base damage on held foes in pvp and pve?
I am pretty sure I have seen that in pve, I seem to recall when I use flares on a held foe I get one big number then the usual numbers, coversely though I have never noiced it with incinerate but I attributed that to maybe a hard to detect DoT doubling.
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Agreed. How was Dominator Toggle Dropping overpowered again?
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Toggle dropping is NOT the solution for dominators in PvP. It is not a matter of balance it is a matter of horrifficaly fustrating unfunness. Constantly getting your toggles drops as a Tank was/is just so unfun it is hard to maddening. You could literally enter pvp matchs and have to concentrate so totally on your power bar to make sure your powers were running that watching the actual fight was a secondary concern.
That's friggen ridiclous to put it mildly.
I certainly agree that Doms need boost in both pvp and pve however toggle dropping is NOT it. In fact I think toggle dropping should be entirely removed from the game, ED has in large part made it obsolete.
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Just a thought on the damage buff. Castle has said in other posts when they make changes they usually make small ones (like the taunt change in pvp) see how they work then move them up or down accordingly. That leads me to beleive that the damage buff started as a very small change and the devs are seeing how it affects dominator play style. If they find that its not enough (which I personally don't think it but thats just my opinion) the other powers might get a damage increase as well (if not more of an increase to melee). I guess we will see how it shakes out. More or less I think devs don't want to over do it and raise expectations too high only to bring them crashing down. my two cents.
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Well, if it's this is the case, and they plan to start stacking up little buff on little buff on little buff until we're at an acceptable level, it'd be nice if they told us.
Edit: Also, if our Melee Modifier was raised to .8 and our Ranged Modifier to .75, we probably still wouldn't be able to do as much damage as Corruptors or Tankers in general. These two classes generally have more Melee/Ranged attacks to draw on, many with higher damage scales than we can claim with ours.
I don't think any of us are going to be popping out Nova-level damage, or chaining a Total Focus into an Energy Transfer. Plus, the actual dedicated damage dealer among those two has Scourge to boost his damage with.
/fire did not benefit greatly from this buff to the dom. we get it to 1 power, a DoT power, and it adds slightly less than 1point of damage per tick for like 9-10 ticks (from info posted in this very thread). that's like 8.somthin points of damage.
now, /fire is not hurtin from this much, cuz we already bring the pain (as has been pointed out). i'm not sad to see sets like /nrg and /ice get some love (3melee attacks each iirc), as they should be closer (in actual damage, not just on paper) to what /fire does...but man, /psi got the shaft