[ QUOTE ]
Also whoever suggested 75% cut for containment in PvE, I disagree since it works just fine in PvE but in PvP the 3x damage is way overboard.
[/ QUOTE ]
A couple things about containment.
1. For the most part the only powers that really benefit are the epic blasts, from which they get one (two if theyre fire).
2. I think something that makes their damage seem so strong is their buffs/debuffs. Again, not everyone has those. If Im empath or ff, I cant increase my damage at all. I need every bit of damage containment can give me.
3. For the most part, pet damage is mediocre. Yes, imps do good damage if theyre all hitting the same target, but sometimes in PvP zones theyre more trouble then theyre worth. Ive been in warbrurg and have them pull npc's on me when Im trying to fight one person. Same thing with phantom army. Outside of those two, pets do not do good damage. And for those that dont know, pets do not benefit at all from containment.
4. You dont get containment unless you land a mez power first. If youre going up against a high-defense toon, this can be very hard. Especially if you dont have a defense debuff/to-hit buff. Most controllers dont. And of course controllers dont have aim either.
I remember when containment first came out it seemed so uber to my blaster. Then playing as a controller, its not nearly the "gimmie" I thought it was.
I would find it ironic that some dom's are calling for containment nerfs, seeing that its only a matter of time before people start calling for domination nerfs. "Its too strong...they can get it up too quick, or it lasts too long *snicker*...they tear through my mez protection..."
I hit level 44 on test with my Fire Fire Dominator. I have the Black Scorpion pool. The debuff in poisionous ray is nice, but my shield is defensive so you know how that goes. Fighting Scrappers that can hit you, but you have no way of hitting them shows imbalance. Blasters have Personal Force Field, and Controllers have access to mez protection.
Now Developers, don't get me wrong, I like the Domination change, but you guys really messed up in the name of balance in the Patron powers. I don't see why Dominators need more AOES, or end drains. What Dominators needed were abilities that increase their survivability. Is there some kind of disconnect with Dominators? We never hear from any reps in our section.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also whoever suggested 75% cut for containment in PvE, I disagree since it works just fine in PvE but in PvP the 3x damage is way overboard.
[/ QUOTE ]
A couple things about containment.
1. For the most part the only powers that really benefit are the epic blasts, from which they get one (two if theyre fire).
2. I think something that makes their damage seem so strong is their buffs/debuffs. Again, not everyone has those. If Im empath or ff, I cant increase my damage at all. I need every bit of damage containment can give me.
3. For the most part, pet damage is mediocre. Yes, imps do good damage if theyre all hitting the same target, but sometimes in PvP zones theyre more trouble then theyre worth. Ive been in warbrurg and have them pull npc's on me when Im trying to fight one person. Same thing with phantom army. Outside of those two, pets do not do good damage. And for those that dont know, pets do not benefit at all from containment.
4. You dont get containment unless you land a mez power first. If youre going up against a high-defense toon, this can be very hard. Especially if you dont have a defense debuff/to-hit buff. Most controllers dont. And of course controllers dont have aim either.
I remember when containment first came out it seemed so uber to my blaster. Then playing as a controller, its not nearly the "gimmie" I thought it was.
I would find it ironic that some dom's are calling for containment nerfs, seeing that its only a matter of time before people start calling for domination nerfs. "Its too strong...they can get it up too quick, or it lasts too long *snicker*...they tear through my mez protection..."
[/ QUOTE ]
Controllers need to be toned down a bit. If they can 3 shot Dominators and Corruptors, then the game is severely out of balance.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.
One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.
[/ QUOTE ]
Early on, maybe. With TO's, the duration boost is almost necessary for holding bosses. However, my L35 mind/psi regularly completes missions without ever using it.
Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?
[/ QUOTE ]
Same can be said about my lvl 40 Grav/ENG. i can hold nearly any boss with Power Boost > GD > GDF > GD for a long time. The problem comes in with
a.) non-*/Ice or *?ENR Dominators that don't have Power Boost.
[/ QUOTE ]
Er.... My /psi doesn't have power boost. 
[ QUOTE ]
b.) EB'ed heroes and AV's
[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, we are dependent upon domination when trying to fight EB's and AV's... but is that a realistic standard?
[ QUOTE ]
While it wouldn't help with part b, changing Power Boost/Aim to a modified Power Build-Up would be a generous help to us.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. [Well, actually, it would help with EB's and AV's too.]
[ QUOTE ]
(Am I sounding like a broken record on this topic yet?)
[/ QUOTE ]
Certainly no worse than some other posters here.
Myself included, more than likely. 
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
[ QUOTE ]
Controllers need to be toned down a bit. If they can 3 shot Dominators and Corruptors, then the game is severely out of balance.
[/ QUOTE ]
1. Ive never three-shot anyone, including defenders, with my fire/storm troller. Lets see...hold, blast, then whats that third hit that kills you? I'd love to hear some examples.
2. By your reasoning, Blasters, Scrappers, Stalkers, EM Tanks (and im betting brutes too) all need to be toned down as well.
I mean Hold....shot 1 shot 2 shot 3...
Fire/storm may not be the best for damage, but I've been continually 3-shotted with my Dominator in Recluse's Victory. Always, always the same. Get Held, Enervating Field, Mental Blast. If they don't have a team mate, they may need to blast me more than once. Overall the encounter lasts roughly 10 seconds.
The problem isn't the quickness of the kill, it's the fact that it's a controller doing it. My encounters with Scrappers in RV have felt about right, I can hold them, or they can kill me. But they have to hit me more than 3 times! Tankers have always been Energy Melee, and they stun me, and I die, since I can't hold them no matter what I do, but then, they're supposed to be decent at damage and good at defense.
Controllers have low/minor damage for the most part, tacked onto controls and buffs/debuffs. In RV, all of this with 3x containment and the way too much base damage on the APP blasts leads them to be far deadlier than any other squishy.
And since Dominators are most-like Controllers, it's rather strange to see. Why is it that this other Archetype gets both longer hold durations, the ability to heal and buff themselves, as well as 3x damage? While I get an inherent I have to work to use, and very often die far sooner than it is ready, they just need to Char me and fire mental blast.
I can accept being 3-shotted by a scrapper, 2-shotted by a stalker, or an energy melee tanker even. They're melee, they do a lot of damage. But a controller? Um, no, that's a bit much, especially since we're supposedly damaging controllers and can't even do nearly as much damage as them.
I have 4 level 50 controllers. I know how they work. I really, really would not mind them completely losing containment at this point, having felt it from the other end, it's so horribly imbalanced. Although I'd settle for the APPs simply losing it. I'll really be amazed if this all goes live without any tweaks.
In the longer version of what I said, */psi would get a minor mire effect on top of what you have now. So I didn't leave you out.
And I don't expect to hold an AV, but with an EB I should be able to eventually break theough their mezz defense with Power Boost and Domination. I have been able to do it with normal EB's but with converted AV's I never have been able to.
Through either primaries, secondaries, or EPPs, every Hero AT (apart from Khelds, and I'm only sure about warshades) has access to a ranged hold. I had several fights in RV last night that went like this:
Me: Hit scrapper with hold, reduce his mez protection by a third
Him: Hits me with hold - held
Him: smacketasmacketa crit pow
Me: <dies>
Even with domination active, against a melee class, it can (and did) play out that way.
While the shields in the PPPs are a nod to increased survivability, with the prevalence of mez capabilities amongst heroes, they are almost useless in PvP. What good are my shields there if everybody and her brother can drop them with a mez? I still think that the PPP shields should have some mez protection.
What do people think of the idea that, in PvP, the mez strength during domination is increased so that a single application can break an unbuffed melee status protection?
I'm familiar with the mantra "PvP isn't balanced for 1-on-1" but I still think that my success should not have to be dependant on there being villains with two secondaries willing and able to buff me.
[ QUOTE ]
Through either primaries, secondaries, or EPPs, every Hero AT (apart from Khelds, and I'm only sure about warshades) has access to a ranged hold.
[/ QUOTE ]
Both do get a melee hold and Warsheds have a built-in TP Foe (which we can't prevent since other than they have to have a ToHit chance for it to hit us.)
The only benefit to us is that we can actuall farm the Held Badge from other player incredibly easily. 
[ QUOTE ]
I would find it ironic that some dom's are calling for containment nerfs, seeing that its only a matter of time before people start calling for domination nerfs. "Its too strong...they can get it up too quick, or it lasts too long *snicker*...they tear through my mez protection..."
[/ QUOTE ]
I think there's a decided difference between what Domination can do, and Controllers attacking me for 400-600 damage with individual shots. Most Blaster ranged attacks don't even hit me that hard, and they have 2 damage sets, as opposed to zero.
Many people have a problem with Containment because it takes Controllers, who sacrificed a damage set for 2 utility sets, and hands them back damage. In RV, if you get held by a Controller and don't use a break free VERY fast, you're dead, period. And I mean within seconds, far faster than I kill even with Domination up. If not for Containment, I could see it possibly being livable to play without Break Frees. With Containment, it's an absolute necessity.
[ QUOTE ]
What do people think of the idea that, in PvP, the mez strength during domination is increased so that a single application can break an unbuffed melee status protection?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that would be justifiably complained about, as it makes our holds about 4x more effective than they are by default. I'm all for improving Dominators, but I think that's just too much.
Containment also is antithetical to how the devs supposedly balance pvp... it seems like an addition meant to make controllers more powerful in 1v1 (and controllers are VERY powerful in 1v1), since in teams it isn't quite as valuable. Supposedly PVP is balanced for teams. A controller's buffs and mezzes should be sufficient. Controllers are full support toons; at no point is 'damage' part of what they do, and while damage is necessary in PvE, it's not in team pvp.
Also... the excuse for containment is the difficulty for controllers to solo pre-pets. Which doesn't explain:
1) Why containment remains when a controller is teamed (or rather, while they're on large teams).
2) Why they keep it after they get pets.
3) Why epic blasts get containment bonus.
4) Why it was even included (and boosted!) in pvp.
I'm not necessarily saying that the above points should be addressed regarding containment, but if its supposed purpose is to help them solo pre-pets, then the above are out of place.
I'm sorry but yeah containment in PvP is just too rough. It was made when Defense was very high and so was Mez protection.
Controller holds target uses Epic Blasts and kills them fast. Dominator Holds Target (Uses Attacks in their SECONDARY) and takes a good deal of time to kill them if they can kill them in time.
There is no reason whatsoever Contollers should out damage Defenders and Dominators in PvP. None they are a Controlling Debuffing Buff set not a Blaster set. Ive seen certain Troller builds that could kill stuff quicker than a blaster from range. Totally uncalled for.
Containment is fairly potent, but it's completely negated with a single inspiration. Wether we like it or not, when control powers are involved, PvP is balanced around the presence of buckets of Break Frees.
Dominators really do need higher base damage, though.
@Mindshadow
[ QUOTE ]
Containment is fairly potent, but it's completely negated with a single inspiration. Wether we like it or not, when control powers are involved, PvP is balanced around the presence of buckets of Break Frees.
Dominators really do need higher base damage, though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Zone warfare insps arent as prevelent as they are in say the arena. A single Breakfree makes a Dom more useless than a troller. Either way a single breakfree doesn't deter the good trollers.
Damage Boost
[ QUOTE ]
Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%
[/ QUOTE ]
Phantom Rose: Ill / Kin / Psi
Soleau: Ice / Icy / Ice / Core: Ice / Fire / Pyre / Wind / Eclipse / Flare / Corona
---------------
Solo Space
That's up from a melee modifier of 70% if you hadn't worked it out 
[ QUOTE ]
That's up from a melee modifier of 70% if you hadn't worked it out
[/ QUOTE ]
Six point seven per cent?
Six point seven per cent?
I shall not rant
Rant is the mind killer
Rant is the hissy fit
that brings total forum humiliation
I shall go to Test and test this instead
At least, as soon as the training room is back up.
[ QUOTE ]
CITY OF VILLAINS
Powers
* Increased Dominator Melee damage modifier to 0.75 -- this increases their melee damage by 6.7%
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh baby. This is good news. Now all they need to do is buff ranged to 70% and all damage complaints should cease. I'm celebrating right now. This is a step in the right direction!
[ QUOTE ]
A single Breakfree makes a Dom more useless than a troller. Either way a single breakfree doesn't deter the good trollers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right - Controllers have their secondary to fall back on, whereas for the Dominator, trying to use their secondary against an opponent under the influence of BFs is almost a liability. It's like self-pwning.
Maybe Dominators just need a 3x PvP damage boost when the target is under the effect of a Break Free. We can call this new inherent "How Dare You?!"
@Mindshadow
[ QUOTE ]
Oh baby. This is good news. Now all they need to do is buff ranged to 70% and all damage complaints should cease. I'm celebrating right now. This is a step in the right direction!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not.
While this might be of some marginal use in PvE (will have to test to see if I notice a difference) it does nothing to ameliorate PvP survivability issues.
Since I only usually post when I am ranting, I will try this (and if it doesn't lead to instant gratification I promise to return to angry bitter ramblings):
Thank you, devs, for the base damage increase. You apparently heard the player base. Please increase ranged damage accordingly as well as it is necessary to make the change more than cosmetic. If it shows to not be enough of a change to achieve balance with the other AT's, I have every confidence you will increase damage further.
(waits in darkness, plotting next rant....but hopeful)
PinguCJL
@Duskhammer
@Fondu
Not entirely true. Containment works off immobs, and those recharge very very fast. Dom immobs are rather worthless.
Has anyone tried the new armors yet in PVP? Seems like the domination change plus the armors would really help. One without the other may not be that great, but seems like all the complaints deal with survival, more than effect, in PVP.
Wouldnt help in SC or BB or Warburg, but seems like it would help a lot in RV, and thats where people are talking about FON and IW.