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I like the suggestion of early pets, but that makes Controllers a little too much "chibi masterminds" for my tastes.
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Wouldn't it just mean they became "chibi masterminds" at level 12 (or whatever) instead of 32? I don't see the difference in the end result, only in the ability to solo your way up there at a reasonable rate.
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I like the suggestion of early pets, but that makes Controllers a little too much "chibi masterminds" for my tastes.
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Wouldn't it just mean they became "chibi masterminds" at level 12 (or whatever) instead of 32? I don't see the difference in the end result, only in the ability to solo your way up there at a reasonable rate.
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Couldn't it just be that Dominators get the pets earlier and not controllers? After all, they do have containment (3x in PvP), critical holds and buff . I think it would make sense since Villains supposedly are the High Damage AT's while heroes are the High Defense AT's.
Why would controllers need them earlier with everything they already have?
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Couldn't it just be that Dominators get the pets earlier and not controllers? After all, they do have containment (3x in PvP), critical holds and buff .
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I thought the proposal was that as part of pets being moved to earlier on, they'd lose Containment and just keep "Critical Holds" as their inherent. I think it'd be totally reasonable for non-Containment Controllers to get their pets earlier, personally.
oops, missed that part 
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Well, I don't think controllers would go for that since most still think containment was a trade off for the GLOBAL hold reductions. I think it could make dominators more survivable than they are now. What do we do in Sirens/Bloody with our toggle dropping power that only has a 5% chance to drop a toggle? If they moved Dominator pets up so they are available @ 24 and left controllers as is I would be happier than I am now.
It doesn't need it, you cant land a hold on a blaster running it.
Unless the blaster is running BFs then yes you can really.
Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:
1. The timer reduction makes Domination available more often only if the dom is constantly attacking.
2. It is not good tactical play to spam holds for Domination building on large teams because, with a few exceptions (such as Mesmerize) the recharge timer on holds is so long that you need to use them when needed, not whenever they come up. So, most of the attack-spamming that will be used to build Domination with the new timer must come from the secondary attack powers.
3. A Dominator who concentrates on constantly spamming attacks on a large team in order to build Domination is not going to also be able to give maximum concentration to surveying the entire field of battle and positioning and calculating to use the control powers to best effect -- instead, he or she is going to be in melee (in order to be able to spam the secondary attacks) trying to stay alive. Some very skilled players may be able to use the control powers just as effectively as if they were not spamming attacks, but most of us won't.
4. The attack powers that Dominators will be spamming will not be of much help to a large team, since the attack powers that doms have that build Domination best are the fast-recharging, low damage ones like Brawl and Psi Dart, and because domination-building attack powers in general don't do that much damage compared to what other ATs can do.
5. So, the reduction in the recharge timer is of most use to people who solo and play on small teams, where it is possible to spam attacks and still be effective at control, simply because control in those situations is easier to do without as many mobs.
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So, most of the attack-spamming that will be used to build Domination with the new timer must come from the secondary attack powers.
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It's only the secondary attack powers that award the extra 8 points on the Domination bar, and that only when they hit. The primaries are still only 2 points.
Yup, and remember that bonus domination build-up is only for PvP - and I think that change is pretty obviously the primary reason the timer was reduced too. The timer change really doesn't benefit PvE that much, but then I'm in the camp that thinks Dom's weren't that bad in PvE anyway.
The domination build-up change is a significant improvement in PvP though - although I still think an increase in HP to Blaster levels would be good - I'm still far too easily taken out by high damage AT's that I can't mez or slow fast enough.
In PvP I it might be helpful if Doms should get a 5% Psi/Hold resistance (which would make sense we would be more resistant to these effects - it's our role!). And a 5% effectiveness increase of primary powers.
Most people agree that solo and on small teams, Dominators rock. The problem becomes evident when players discuss their experiences on large teams.
Personally, I don't do large PUG's very much anymore in CoV with anything except my Corrupter. (Haven't really gotten into brutes and MM's yet, and people resist when I try to take point with my Dom or Stalker.) In my SG though, I will run in large teams without hesitation.
I agree with the PvP assessment. I was 2-shotted by a Controller yesterday. Kinda sad that a Low Damage AT can wipe me out. 
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Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:
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Have you *tried* it yet?
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:
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Have you *tried* it yet?
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I think what fifteen is saying is that the reduction is nice and even a welcomed change, but a efw more tweeks would be nice.
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Here's my attempt to state in somewhat of a syllogism form why I think the PvE change for Dominators doesn't help much for large teams:
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Have you *tried* it yet?
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I think what fifteen is saying is that the reduction is nice and even a welcomed change, but a efw more tweeks would be nice.
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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.
One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.
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What do we do in Sirens/Bloody with our toggle dropping power that only has a 5% chance to drop a toggle? If they moved Dominator pets up so they are available @ 24 and left controllers as is I would be happier than I am now.
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Can't say that would help me much as a Mind Dominator, personally. That may just be my cross to bear, though.
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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.
One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.
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Early on, maybe. With TO's, the duration boost is almost necessary for holding bosses. However, my L35 mind/psi regularly completes missions without ever using it.
Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.
One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.
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Early on, maybe. With TO's, the duration boost is almost necessary for holding bosses. However, my L35 mind/psi regularly completes missions without ever using it.
Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?
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On the other hand, few Heroes are "dependent" on their inherents, which tend to be more "pure bonus" than "vital balancing feature." That may be the source of some of the issue.
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So, most of the attack-spamming that will be used to build Domination with the new timer must come from the secondary attack powers.
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It's only the secondary attack powers that award the extra 8 points on the Domination bar, and that only when they hit. The primaries are still only 2 points.
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My post, as stated, is about PvE. It addresses the reduction in the dom timer from 300 seconds to 200 seconds.
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Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?
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That's part of the point I tried to make about 20 pages ago. All CoV AT's are heavily dependant on their inherants for their primary function.
The problem is, Dominators are the only CoV AT dependant on their inherant for their Primary And Secondary functions. Everyone else has a secondary function completely independant of their inherants - except Dominators.
Balance our primaries with our inherant, but our secondaries should be balanced by themselves.
That's why I'm completely in favor of reducing the damage boost of domination, and giving us a permanent damage boost in our secondaries. Maybe Corrupter-Stalker level damage with a DO's worth of damage boost from Domination. The main point of Domination should be for the extra controls.
I also think a few more Hp's would help out as well.
We are the only AT that has to go through such a process to build up to use our inherent. A Stalker may be very dependent on Assassin Strike, but the Stalker has that power available every few seconds whether attacking or not. A Brute gets the benefit of building Fury while it is being built.
The PPPs are unfair to Mind/Psi Doms!
We don't get pets at 32 and now if we choose to go for a PPP pet power, the power does not accept recharge DOs. It's a Pet-astrophe! 
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Have you *tried* it yet?
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I have. It's next to useless.
No amount of help to boost the rate at which we build Domination will make up for our sheer naked vulnerability while we are trying to build it. We are defenceless in PvP, and also in PvE.
PvE example: I was trying to solo Black Scorpion earlier today. (Eventually succeeded, after a LOT of work.) All the mobs in the mission were dead, and there was only the Elite Boss left. I had nothing that I could build Domination with except the one target that I needed Domination to defeat! And, of course, while I was trying to build it, I was getting slammed about.
The only other AT to have comparable defencelessness to us is the blaster, and blasters have their huge damage to compensate. They've also got that Defiance thing that so many of them hate so much, but which at least lets them do more damage when they get hurt. What have we got to compare? Nothing. If blasters are a glass cannon, then we're tissue paper handcuffs; and at least you can fire a glass cannon.
If the Devs are determined to make us totally dependent on teams for survival, then they should maybe give us a new team-based inherent. Give us a bonus to our control powers for every teammate we have.
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Its not bad but it doesnt fix the underlying problems.
One of the main ones being we are too dependant on domination.
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Early on, maybe. With TO's, the duration boost is almost necessary for holding bosses. However, my L35 mind/psi regularly completes missions without ever using it.
Regardless, isn't that rather like saying brutes are entirely too dependent on fury, or stalkers too dependent on assassination?
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Same can be said about my lvl 40 Grav/ENG. i can hold nearly any boss with Power Boost > GD > GDF > GD for a long time. The problem comes in with
a.) non-*/Ice or *?ENR Dominators that don't have Power Boost.
b.) EB'ed heroes and AV's
While it wouldn't help with part b, changing Power Boost/Aim to a modified Power Build-Up would be a generous help to us.
(Am I sounding like a broken record on this topic yet?)
CuppaJoAdministrator
Community Coordinator
Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 2138
Loc: The Thin Blue Line
Re: Starting Temp power... ? [Re: Aracade]
#5476106 - 05/08/06 11:12 AM
Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote
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The starting temp power... does it still disappear at 10 or can you actualy keep it now?
Yes - once a little bug is fixed you will be able to keep your origin power past 10 - permanently!
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another free quick Domination building power 
Posty from CuppaJo here.
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doms should be better at control (or at LEAST equal), since we get no buffs/debuffs
our secondary is purely dmg, and the other 4 at's in CoV do damage far better than we do, i'd rather focus on control and actually be good at it
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Control should be equal, as we both have it as Primaries. They get longer durations, but we get Domination (even longer durations and buffed Mag) and some sets get Powerboost, so this looks even to me (but it might not be)
We should be the better damage dealers, though between containment and self-buffing, some argue Controllers are better, or at least match us. THAT bothers me a bit. The damage dealing holders should be more damaging than the buffing holders.
But if you raise us up to be more damaging than Controllers, do we overpower the othersets? If you "fix it" by nerfing Containment instead, do Controllers UTTERLY SUCK at Solo play/
*shrugs*
I wish I knew the answer.
I like the suggestion of early pets, but that makes Controllers a little too much "chibi masterminds" for my tastes.