As a CoH controller who's been through my pet nerfs, hold nerfs, and ED, I just want to throw in my two cents (not familiar with what you could do or can do now, just IMO).
As long as you don't get to hold better than me, I don't really see a problem. But as my AT's complaint was that holding WAS our job and the devs didn't like that, if what you want is better than what we've got, you should all just stop complaining. We got told by the dev team 'tough cookies' and you'll probably get told the same too.
"Only two things are infinite: the Universe and Human stupidity . . . and I'm not so sure about the Universe."
- - - Albert Einstein
let me see
controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment
doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time
hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers
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let me see
controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment
doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time
hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers
[/ QUOTE ]The devs should make it be:
controllers get strong holds
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get low-medium dmg with containment
doms get moderate holds
doms get medium-high dmg
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let me see
controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment
doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time
hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers
[/ QUOTE ]The devs should make it be:
controllers get strong holds
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get low-medium dmg with containment
doms get moderate holds
doms get medium-high dmg
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Containment is an abomination that shouldn't exist. Critical Holds are all the inherent Controllers need. Not doing meaningful levels of damage is the logical result of not having a damage set. Each time I take a 400 damage blast to the face from a Controller on test, my opinion on this is reinforced.
doms should be better at control (or at LEAST equal), since we get no buffs/debuffs
our secondary is purely dmg, and the other 4 at's in CoV do damage far better than we do, i'd rather focus on control and actually be good at it
Ya know, it just occured to me that the hero AT's have distinct PvP only advantages that were insituted when the Arena was put in. All blaster attacks have an unresistable damage portion, scrapper crits are unresistable, defender debuffs are a percentage unresistable, and controllers have 3x damage containment as opposed to the 2x damage of PvE (and yes I agree that 3x is just damn excessive). A fast building Dom bar just does not balance out against those enormous pvp buffs.
A lot of people have talked about upping our damage so I'll try to make some alternate suggestions. I think a chance to critical hold bypassing protections would be fair since our current damage is subpar. Alternately a form of limited containment is also I think workable. Some others have suggested that Dom's pvp focus should be on toggle dropping. I'm not a fan of this one as it mandates being in melee, but maybe its workable.
actually being able to hold people despite them using breakfrees would be nice, even if we have to have domination running and stack 2 holds, i want it to be reasonably possible
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actually being able to hold people despite them using breakfrees would be nice, even if we have to have domination running and stack 2 holds, i want it to be reasonably possible
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I've had situations where people have used a break free against me but still been held. The problem arises when they use like 5 and become virtually immune.
If break frees had a 30 second effect, 30 second cool down, they would be much easier to overcome; they'd allow sufficient mez protection to GET AWAY from your mezzer, or maybe down some other useful inspirations that might help you, but not enough to allow you to fight them while being completely able to IGNORE their mezzes as a non-factor.
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let me see
controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment
doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time
hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers
[/ QUOTE ]The devs should make it be:
controllers get strong holds
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get low-medium dmg with containment
doms get moderate holds
doms get medium-high dmg
[/ QUOTE ]
Containment is an abomination that shouldn't exist. Critical Holds are all the inherent Controllers need. Not doing meaningful levels of damage is the logical result of not having a damage set. Each time I take a 400 damage blast to the face from a Controller on test, my opinion on this is reinforced.
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The reason the devs put containtment is the only ones who really played controllers where those that had them powerleveled. Since no one wanted to suffer through 32 levels of boring suckage.
Containment is/was needed.
on the other hand it might be set too high in pvp.
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let me see
controllers get better holds than doms
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get medium-high dmg with containment
doms get worse holds 90% of the time
doms get low-medium dmg 90% of the time
hmm im not feeling any pity for the poor controllers
[/ QUOTE ]The devs should make it be:
controllers get strong holds
controllers get buffs/debuffs
controllers get low-medium dmg with containment
doms get moderate holds
doms get medium-high dmg
[/ QUOTE ]
Containment is an abomination that shouldn't exist. Critical Holds are all the inherent Controllers need. Not doing meaningful levels of damage is the logical result of not having a damage set. Each time I take a 400 damage blast to the face from a Controller on test, my opinion on this is reinforced.
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The reason the devs put containtment is the only ones who really played controllers where those that had them powerleveled. Since no one wanted to suffer through 32 levels of boring suckage.
Containment is/was needed.
on the other hand it might be set too high in pvp.
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Containment was never needed, the devs simply did not want to put a controllers damage at a level that was accessable to the masses. In other words, the developers didn't realize that they needed to make the pets available much sooner than level 32 for controllers. Controllers ALWAYS had the right amount of damage, at level 32. 1-32 was the problem and the developers didn't understand how to solve the problem.
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The reason the devs put containtment is the only ones who really played controllers where those that had them powerleveled.
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If by "powerlevelled" you mean "levelled with a team," yes, I agree. And I feel that was totall fine. Why? Because the archetype was outright advertised as a team-focused archetype. Of course it wouldn't have appealed much to soloers.
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Since no one wanted to suffer through 32 levels of boring suckage.
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It's only "boring suckage" if you solo, which was never meant to be a Controller's strong suit. They give up a damage set in return for 2 very useful utility sets. If you go ahead and hand them back damage, things get askew. Concern's solution would have been a much more reasonable one than Containment, and would actually solve a couple complaints about Dominators too: pets coming sooner in the set is just plain reasonable.
I think these two changes would fix Dominators:
1) The Domination bar does not decrease unless you are defeated, leave the game, activate Domination, or 10 minutes pass without you attacking a target.
2) While the Domination bar is ready (and you are sparkling), you receive a buff of +5% to base Defense and all Damage Resistance, and a +1 to Magnitude versus all Mezzes. This bonus is lost when Domination is activated.
If you don't think squishies should get even these weak defenses, you could substitute a To-Hit and Recharge buff instead.
In the meantime, I think the buff to Domination we received for PvP is an awesome and beautiful thing.
On the subject of Toggle Drops, I can't see the point of any power having a toggle drop % below 20%. Even bonus chances for a second toggle should be at least 10%.
Every power that has a 'low' % chance to drop a toggle (currently below 20%) should have a 20% chance. Everything that has a 'good' chance (21-50%) has a 30% chance. Everything that has an 'excellent' chance to drop toggles (51% +) gets a 40% chance. Powers that have a 'chance per second' of dropping a toggle should have a 5% chance.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
I posted a topic a while ago when I came back to play CoH/CoV about how Controllers/Dominators should get pets between lvl8 - 18. If the pets scaled damage as u lvled it wouldn't have been a big issue. Most other MMOs give players their pets in the first few lvls. The replies I got didn't show support for this suggestion, in part due to Containment and its buff. Players suggested it would make Controllers overpowered, and I can agree with that.
Now because I liked Containment so much I had nothing to say, and I let the topic die. Containment is a problem, I can see that now. However rather than a flat out nerf more of a tweak is needed. I know a few controllers that don't use their pets, and they would be gimped if Containment gets nerfed. What happens if pets die in the first few secs after u summon them? It is at this point that Containment comes into play.
The Containment problem needs a topic of its own.
As for Dominators I'm still testing the changes. I 'll have my comments up at a later point. However at this time I can agree with most players on the Dominator issues posted here.
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I think these two changes would fix Dominators:
1) The Domination bar does not decrease unless you are defeated, leave the game, activate Domination, or 10 minutes pass without you attacking a target.
2) While the Domination bar is ready (and you are sparkling), you receive a buff of +5% to base Defense and all Damage Resistance, and a +1 to Magnitude versus all Mezzes. This bonus is lost when Domination is activated.
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I can't say this would meaningfully change my experience as a Dominator at all. As much as people seem to like to "think small" to make their suggestions seem reasonable, people suggesting things like "5% damage increases," or "5% defense bonuses," are failing to realize that if there actually IS an issue, miniscule changes aren't going to make up for it. +5% defense wouldn't even be noticable, certainly not worth NOT using Domination for, and I can't say I have a problem with Domination Decay at all. And if there isn't a problem, we don't need these things in the first place.
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I think these two changes would fix Dominators:
1) The Domination bar does not decrease unless you are defeated, leave the game, activate Domination, or 10 minutes pass without you attacking a target.
2) While the Domination bar is ready (and you are sparkling), you receive a buff of +5% to base Defense and all Damage Resistance, and a +1 to Magnitude versus all Mezzes. This bonus is lost when Domination is activated.
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I can't say this would meaningfully change my experience as a Dominator at all. As much as people seem to like to "think small" to make their suggestions seem reasonable, people suggesting things like "5% damage increases," or "5% defense bonuses," are failing to realize that if there actually IS an issue, miniscule changes aren't going to make up for it. +5% defense wouldn't even be noticable, certainly not worth NOT using Domination for, and I can't say I have a problem with Domination Decay at all. And if there isn't a problem, we don't need these things in the first place.
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10% damage and blaster hp would help alot, and would not overbalance the class.
It also wouldnt hurt things if containment was cut to 75% in pve and 150% in pvp and duration on aoe holds was increased by 25-50%
I am curious if a Dev can explain to me how I am supposed to beat a Controller running Force of Nature? He out holds me, out damages me and is completley immune to my holds and attacks. There is nothing in our Patron Powers that even comes close to this.
Controllers don't have Force of Nature, its in the Blaster EPP.
Sorry, meant IndomitableWill. Blasters with Force of Nature bring pretty much the same issues though. Thank Goodness I get.......nothing in my Patron Powers that compares.
Maybe you mean Indomitable Will. If so, you can try to mez them, but the power is not perma. You and a Dominator friend can try to hold said Controller or just wait for the power to wear off.
im guessing it lasts 2-3 minutes, like most other godmode powers? if so, most people just camp in their base while those powers recharge, since pvp fights last so short
Base recharge for IW is 360secs and it lasts 90secs. With 3 recharge enhancers it takes 185secs to recharge. With 3 recharge enhancers+Hasten+ 1 Siphon Speed it recharges in 126secs. With this setup u can get it up every 36secs. If u add 2 more Siphon Speeds its even less.
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Sorry, meant IndomitableWill. Blasters with Force of Nature bring pretty much the same issues though. Thank Goodness I get.......nothing in my Patron Powers that compares.
[/ QUOTE ]Does FoN have mez protection IWill has? And IW can have a downtime window of less than a minute with accelerated metabolism + hasten, not perma but close.
Also whoever suggested 75% cut for containment in PvE, I disagree since it works just fine in PvE but in PvP the 3x damage is way overboard.
Force of Nature has a base recharge of 1000secs and lasts 120secs. At the end of those 120secs all your end is drained and u can't rec end for about 10secs. It has 35% base resist to all types of damage except Psi, and gives the user resist to Immob/Hold/Sleep/Dis status effects. It also gives the user an end rec buff for its dur time.
With 3 recharge enhancers in FoN it recharges in 513secs. Add Hasten and its up every 377secs. Meaning it has a down time of 257secs.
Acually FON lasts longer then that and it doesn't give mez protection.
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Doms in RV are the only AT the feels like a different fight in i7. Everything else is pretty predictable, but doms seem changed. They are just as squishy as before, but their holds seem to break through more often. I think it's because of the toggle drop changes. Doms get the highest chance to drop toggles now, plus, if the mez protection toggle drops, then boom, you are held and ALL the toggles drop. No other AT can do this and it happens fairly often if you have two or more doms attacking you.
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Don't be decieved. While we still have the highest toggle droppping capabilities, they are a fraction of what we used to do. The increased chance to hold is the Domination change.
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They need help.
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Thanks again for your support. Hopefully more non-Doms can give us their impressions of us.