I'll tell you all what. Even with corrupters on my team in pvp (sheilds heals etc) I consistently get two shotted by all manner of heros (blasters, defenders, tanks, scrappers, peace bringers etc etc). It is definitely not fun. I don't plan on PVP'ing with my dominator.
I'm stil trying to figure out the PVP balance.
It's been said repeatedly that "being held is unfun"
And yet, being slowed to a point where you can't run and can't swing is different somehow? Or being stunned, and then getting killed onthe follow up is.. fun?
Being 2-3 shotted through the shields a Corruptor can give you isn't much fun either....
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
Severl things to post:
1: PVP does not equal PVE. PVE mobs dont get Bfs. Only question in PVE is are holds/primary as good as corruptor secondary (buff/debuff), in consideration with the relative damaeg each class does.
2: PVP - extreme damage attacks with stuns are overpowered. Melees with nrg attacks should have to chose low damage/stun OR extreme damage, not get both. Jousting is still happening. Can we please go back to -acc and lose suppression? Tanks SS by with Energy transfer, you almost die and are stunned, then they SS by with Total focus and its over. Spines scrappers are much too strong with their ranged attacks. TP foe needs a longer animation time AFTER the tp comes off (so they cant gank as you first show up near them) - I know this is possible, look at fire sword circle and greater fire sword. BFs should be weaker, maybe be resistance (reduce hold time) and not Mag increase. This would let holds at least drop toggles on squishies, making doms single target hold worth something. In addition, why do the dom ranged AOE soft holds (flashfire, flash freeze, etc) require a target to be on the ground? This is another limitation on something that has poor acc, low duration, and limited effect. They should at least work on flying/jumping mobs. Last, with health and the reduced duration times on sleep attacks (flash freeze anyway) the duration with 2 slots is so short the animation doesnt show at all. I understand it not being 2 minutes, but shouldnt it last at least 5 seconds? The slotted duration in PVP of flashfreeze if they have health is on the order of 0.3 seconds or so.
3: PVE - I was told the same thing (must have these ATs) about the respec mission. Had to have 2 corruptors, 2 brutes, and 2-3 masterminds. Was total crap. My teams with that composition failed, one very heavy on doms won easily. In specific, fire imps plus a domination and FE boosted attacks will eat through an AV quickly. I suspect you could win most of those fights before the triangles showed up, or immediately after they go down.
However, the perception is there, and will get worse with the PPP. Ice/dark corruptors will have 4 holds, compared to 2 for doms. Which AT is the control based one? To add it up, more holds, better damage, better health, better defense, more team buffing (healing and mob debuffs). My dom can solo fine and the changes will help, but the team impact needs to be evaluated. My suggestion is to buff artic air, hot feet, smoke and other PBAOE or AOE type soft controls to make them have more impact on helping a team. Smoke adds ~3% defense now. How worthless is that? Darkest night is how much, plus damage reduction? Im not saying doms should get as good debuffs as corruptors, but they should be evident.
Well said Anglican,
I don't want to see any AT get a nerf but your statement about ice/dark...."Ice/dark corruptors will have 4 holds, compared to 2 for doms." Is definitely a major problem/issue with the Dom AT. We honestly don't bring anything to a team that any other villian AT can and will do better/more consistantly than us. I love my Dom, I really do but unless there is a significant change to the AT, she will set at lvl 40 
. I tried out several different builds/AT's during the RV event and my Dominator was hands down the weakest of all of them on both sides. The domination change did help but it was nowhere near what the AT needs to compete and actually make a contribution to their team.
The dev's should change the "domination" graphic so that it put's a big bullseye above our heads... wait, it already does 
. It's like..kill the crazy squishy with the glowing aura, that's an easy win 
.
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Last, with health and the reduced duration times on sleep attacks (flash freeze anyway) the duration with 2 slots is so short the animation doesnt show at all. I understand it not being 2 minutes, but shouldnt it last at least 5 seconds? The slotted duration in PVP of flashfreeze if they have health is on the order of 0.3 seconds or so.
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I've been having the same problems with Mind's sleep powers in PvP. I PMed Castle about it, he says he'll look into it, and that it didn't sound right.
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Frankly I think that the domination boost should be lowered by 50% and have the standard attacks boosted in damage to compensate. The domination bonus of increased duration, mag and endurance refill is enough without making it the sole way for a dominator to deal damage. Give it a minor damage boost rather than a major one and tip the scales for the more attacks.
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This idea has a lot of merit.
Also, my dominators are still massive endurance hogs. I can play on a team and let the brutes and corruptors and masterminds do all the work, and just play control for mitigatory purposes... but that's not going to build my domination at all. If I have any hope of building domination, I'm panting and wheezing the entire mission without stamina -- and the devs keep trying to maintain that the game can be played without it...
I don't know but the more I think about these Patron powers, the imbalances in the Dominator sets that are not being looked at because they are not exploits. I simply get more and more frustrated. I dont plan on selecting a patron till issue 8 or so. Maybe they will either add more patrons or revise the powers. the only difference I see between them all is do I want to take a power with resistance to energy or -energy.... hmmmm.
I will admit though all this test is only for bugs not for design. I can get pissed and quit but that wont make them undo the design at this point. The arguement that patron powers are not what we want or can use is already sailed.
Sad really, I had such big hopes for the Patrons too. Here I am deciding on a Power Pool that I could take from lvl 6 to fill in the 44-49 powers since I cant see using another attack that will only serve to get me killed.
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I don't know but the more I think about these Patron powers, the imbalances in the Dominator sets that are not being looked at because they are not exploits. I simply get more and more frustrated. I dont plan on selecting a patron till issue 8 or so. Maybe they will either add more patrons or revise the powers. the only difference I see between them all is do I want to take a power with resistance to energy or -energy.... hmmmm.
I will admit though all this test is only for bugs not for design. I can get pissed and quit but that wont make them undo the design at this point. The arguement that patron powers are not what we want or can use is already sailed.
Sad really, I had such big hopes for the Patrons too. Here I am deciding on a Power Pool that I could take from lvl 6 to fill in the 44-49 powers since I cant see using another attack that will only serve to get me killed.
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I mostly agree. I do want the armor, and Mako has the water spout thing, but all in all the recharges are too long to care much for these powers (not to mention the power selection).
All in all, for PVP, I see the 40-50 region letting me have aid self, acrobatics, stamina and the presence pool for fear type controls.
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As to Domination? I don't want it changed (other than the nice recharge boost it's getting, which I'm happy about). I don't want Containment-for-Villains (Domination does more than just boost damage, after all), and I don't want it lowered in effectiveness just so it's available all the time (triggering it in key situations has been extremely useful to me and I'd like to keep it that way).
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I agree that I do not want domination changed to a permanent thing like containment, however there is one change I would like to see: Make it where you continue to "earn" points in it as you kill things, however those points never go away until you activate domination; i.e. when you are not killing it does not slowly de-charge to zero, but instead stays at whatever you earned.
I feel that this ability would make it much better while at the same time not completely breaking it.
"So you want to be a hero kid? Well whoop-dee-do"
-Philoctetes
Repeat Offenders
my favorite idea for making domination usable more often would be that we could activate it at any % of the bar being full, but its buff is (obviously) less the less full the bar is
because i'd probably hit it at about 25% every other spawn (or so), instead of saving it up for the final boss of a mission
I just wanted to post something I noticed while testing. Now that the damage modifiers have been changed for dominators with I7, the Ice assualt set needs it powers descriptions updated. Greater Ice Sword (which is listed as HIGH damage) does the same damage as Bitter Ice Blast (which is listed as Superior). The damage is not exactly the same but in most cases within 2 points unless fighting something with strong lethal (GIS) or smashing (BIB) resist. I tested this against several numbers of Freaks, Wailers, Tsoo, and Family. Most of us who look at the patch notes will be able to know that melee for dominators is higher than ranged, but for a player new to the dominator AT this could be very misleading.
I am sure there are other powers like this among the other powersets too.
Lvl 50 Illusion/Kinetics - Sweet Chololate
Lvl 48 Peacebringer - Lil Sweet
Lvl 41 Storm/Dark - Sista Nightfall
Lvl 40 Mind/Kinetics - Mentalpause
Lvl 50 Mind/Psi - BrainFart
Lvl 42 Ice/Ice - LaTundra
yeah all those damage descriptions are wrong for most powers. for instance the PPP snipes for stalkers use the same "extreme" that it does for blasters, yet they do 45% of the damage
I am not sure how they can fix that though, becuase the damage is not just based on the power, but on the AT modifier for ranged or melee. I guess it would require someone manually changing the tex for each and every power, which if it is going to take them off of some progress on i7, then I would be against. Besides, what does Superior mean anyways in regards to damage?
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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I am not sure how they can fix that though, becuase the damage is not just based on the power, but on the AT modifier for ranged or melee. I guess it would require someone manually changing the tex for each and every power, which if it is going to take them off of some progress on i7, then I would be against. Besides, what does Superior mean anyways in regards to damage?
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For a dom about 40 points of damage? Hehehehhe, sorry, couldnt resist it. 
Superior is between High and Extreme.
I've been testing Poisonous Ray the past 3 days after getting it 4 slotted (1acc/3def debuff), and here is what I have found:
1. The Debuff lasts between 26 and 30secs. This is after asking many people to count the debuff down in PVP. I myself counted 26secs. This is for both PVE and PVP.
2.The resist debuff adds around 16% to damage, and here is the test:
Test Subject: Bone Spider Commando
Color: White
Level: 41
Type: Minion
Player: Gialli
Level: 41
AT: Dominator
Power Sets: Ice/Psi
Power Used: Subdue
Before PR:
Subdue Damage on Screen: 104
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 103.59
After PR
Subdue Damage on Screen: 123
Subdue Damage in Combat Chat: 123.01
I'm guessing the debuff would be about the same in PVP. I also tested this power on a lvl45 Crey Power Tank Boss at lvl42. The resist debuff on him was 11%, which is due to the fact that he is +3 lvls higher than I and also a Boss.
3. The Def Debuff is much harder to test, so I can't really say how much the power debuffs def. However I did test it in pvp with a few Heroes, and here is the info:
I tested on a Ill/FF Controller with PFF 3 slotted with +2 Def buff enhancers. I hit ther with PR and ask her to turn on just PFF. I missed 10 out of 10 times with both Subdue and Chilblain 2 slotted with +2 acc enhancers. Take note that Chilblain has a base acc of 20%.
On a SR Scrapper with all def powers 3 slotted for def I found 2 acc enhancers in my attacks powers would hit him 9 times out of 10. I didn't even need to use PR for the def debuff. I tested PR and missed 9 times out of 10 with Elude up. Elude being 70.20% Def to all damage types. SR also has a resist to Def Debuff scaled to 50% resist at lvl50. Making PR useless on anyone with Elude up.
Thoughts:
The resist debuff in PVE is useless on anything less than a EB or Hero/AV. On a Hero/AV/EB the resist debuff would be much less due to the fact that past lvl41 most players fight +3 mobs. Still its not totally useless, as added damage is always nice. Just don't waste this power on a white con minion. PR can be used as a team damage buff as the -resist helps everyone.
In PVP as a Ice/Psi Dominator the -resist isn't needed, as psi damage is the least resisted in the PVP game. It would be much more useful to anyone with Smashing/Lethal damage in their assault set. For those toons it could be very nice when stacked twice.
The Def Debuff in PVE really isn't needed unless u plan to fight +5 mobs. The mobs that have high def are few and far between. Only Drones which come in large mobs have high def, and since PR is an ST attack it won't help u much. The Nem's also have a high def as they turn on Vengeance which is a huge buff to def, but since Vengeance is an AoE buff PRs ST doesn't help much.
In PVP the Def Debuff is useless as 2 acc enhancers will get past most def toggles 90% of the time. The only Dominator set that would get the most out of PR is Thorny Assault as they can stack -def debuff and have Aim to help take out FFers with PFF. Still they only have 10secs to do so, and I don't think PR can be stacked in that amount of time. Thorny Assault can also use the -resist debuff as most of their attacks do lethal damage.
Overall I think PR is lacking, and would have liked a -dam/-acc debuff much better for both PVE/PVP.
Anyone else test PR out, and what are your thoughts?
I am changing my vote a little.
Since I7 was gracious enough to stay on Training Room for ages, I've had plenty of time to test the Dom changes. Whereas I previously proclaimed Doms "fixed", I now say they still need better damage.
Playing Corrupters has made me realize how bad Dom damage is. I have a 40 Corr on live, and tried many different Corrs in the RV event. There is a reason Corrupters are so massively popular and Doms are considered a poor choice (especially in PVP). The Corr's base damage is much better than the Dom. He gets access to attacks sooner. Now logically that makes sense since the Corr's attacks are in his primary set, right? Here is the crux: a Corrupter's secondary buff/debuff/heal set is more effective in PVE and PVP than a Dominator's primary control set. The italics are for emphasis because this statement is irrefragable in my opinion.
In the very best circumstances, a Corr's secondary set is AS useful as a Dom's primary. E.g., Rad toggles = Ice Slick for damage mitigation. In most circumstances, though, the Corr's abilities are better than Dom controls. Heals, defensive buffs, offensive buffs, rezes, perception buffs, phase powers... the list goes on. Yet for the superior utility of their non-attack set, Corrs have higher base damage than Doms.
Two factors push the imbalance over the edge. One, resistance debuffs. Most Corrs can increase their own damage and that of their team by debuffing Res. Two, Scourge gives Corrs added damage.
"But what about teh Imps!?!" Ahh, Imps, how I hate thee. These PVE gods make the whole AT look stronger than it really is, damage wise. I know from experience that Jack, Venus, and the Sing do not output great damage. And yet, I cannot help but feel that Dom damage is balanced against Fire Imps. In other words, the Devs won't give us decent damage because then Joe Fire Dom would kill mobs too easily in PVE. Pets don't do a whole lot in PVP, but our Assault sets are kept weak because of them. And that, my friends, is tragic. If they would give Doms and Controllers simple pet commands, it would be a different story, but they stubbornly believe that would hurt MMs somehow.
My final word on Dom damage: I challenge anyone to play a 40 /Ice Dom and a 40 Ice/ Corr. Do some missions. Go to Siren's Call or Warburg. Can you justify Doms doing such poor damage compared to Corrs? Is the Corr's secondary really less useful than the Dom's primary? The answer IMO is a resounding NO.
Dominator damage still needs a buff. And if that's not doable, then Dominators need something else, like an HP increase or Controller-duration mezzes.
((* I always feel the need to give this disclaimer when I ask for Dom damage to be increased... I think Defender damage should be increased, too. ))
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I am changing my vote a little.
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Glad your back with us. We were getting worried.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
damage is a dom's secondary, i think it's in a decent spot now, but could see a bit of a buff
but i'd like control to be considerably stronger, since its our damn primary
I fail to see why the devs think that
Solid Control + solid Buff/Debuff + high specialized damage < Mediocre Control + low damage
I don't get the hate for Dom grouping that I'm seeing in this thread. I have a 39 Ice/Energy Dom that is highly valued in groups. Any 8 man group should have 2 Doms if they are available so multiple bosses can be locked down in each fight.
My current attack string for 8 man groups is -
Block of Ice (on a boss)
Ice Slick
Powerup
Shiver
Block of Ice (on the same boss)
Then I just pound on that boss until he's taken out and move on to a LT or something. I usually save Glacier for if things get hairy. Though I did find out that two Kin corruptors make it possible for me to use Glacier in almost every fight. So what team wouldn't want a Dom that can slow the crud out of all the mobs with Shiver and Slick and completely take one boss out of every fight?
a brute could kill that boss faster
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a brute could kill that boss faster
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Yeah he probably could genius. So is DPS the only factor in combat now? If it is then there's no need for most ATs in this game. Why debuff if you can DPS instead right? Why bother with CC if you can DPS? Why bother with healing if you can DPS?
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So, I don't know if any of you have been reading the thread aboutt he Recluse SF contest, but below is a post that just went up in that thread. I'm pasting it in here becuase I think it's a pretty solid example of exactly what the majority of the Dom community has been worried about happening:
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It just shows how ignorant a lot of people are about dominators' abilities. My dom eats AVs for lunch... with domination up. That's the key. Get dom up.
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Yeah right -- you can have domination up all day long and you won't touch an AV with triangles.
When you succeed on the Recluse TF with your dom let me know -- I'm not holding my breath.
It's also worth noting that no Stalkers or MMs are on this ideal team for recluse either. I think that's tolerable, however, because Stalkers and MMs at least solo extremely well. Doms are actually better solo than teamed, but they aren't very good solo because they don't do very well against EBs with triangles.