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and Mass Confusion has accuracy of 55.
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Incorrect. Mass Confusion has an accuracy of 80%, so sayth the game files.
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When CoV was still in beta, there were some early discussions on the beta boards about the uselessness of hold in PvP due to break-frees.
Same issues still exists today, however someone then suggested something then that has stuck with me. What if holds had a secondary effect, like most attacks, that was put into effect upon a successful hit with your hold, was unresistable (not subject to break-frees), and lasted the length of the hold (so if the hold went into effect it would go un-noticed, therefore only being of use if a break-free was used or the hold used on a hold resistant target). This way a hold power could still have an effect on combat, even when its primary purpose was being defeated by something like a break-free.
Any thoughts? Most likely would require some game re-engineering and would probably end up acting similar to a debuff (and therefore be opposed by defenders/corruptors), so I am not sure how viable an idea, but I thought I would bring it up.
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I like this idea, I find it unfair that if they break our hold we become next to defenceless. A slow component, or acc debuff, or -jump, fly would be really fun AND useful.
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When CoV was still in beta, there were some early discussions on the beta boards about the uselessness of hold in PvP due to break-frees.
Same issues still exists today, however someone then suggested something then that has stuck with me. What if holds had a secondary effect, like most attacks, that was put into effect upon a successful hit with your hold, was unresistable (not subject to break-frees), and lasted the length of the hold (so if the hold went into effect it would go un-noticed, therefore only being of use if a break-free was used or the hold used on a hold resistant target). This way a hold power could still have an effect on combat, even when its primary purpose was being defeated by something like a break-free.
Any thoughts? Most likely would require some game re-engineering and would probably end up acting similar to a debuff (and therefore be opposed by defenders/corruptors), so I am not sure how viable an idea, but I thought I would bring it up.
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Some holds already have this though. Grav has slows (and I think -Fly). Ice has slows and -recharge. Plant has -def (I think). Fire just has more damage (DoT). Mind has...errr...nothing, unless we're counting psionic damage.
Here is my final post on this subject.
I think Doms are fixed in PVP in I7. I think that the changes to Domination and melee damage have nudged us firmly in between gimp and overpowered. And I think that we are equitable with Controllers now in PVP. In some ways each AT is better than the other.
The only outstanding request I have for Doms is ability to command pets. Yes, I know this is a MM trait. Pet AI is sad and they are nothing but a distraction in PVP, though; I respeced out of Jack Frost already and don't regret it. Let's abandon the philosophy of "only Masterminds can give commands" and give everyone with pets a decent amount of control, like can be found in most other MMOs. MMs have so many other things going for them now, like Bodyguard, I really doubt they'll be offended if I can tell my little Jack Frost to attack a specific Scrapper in battle.
GJ fixing Doms, devs. 
Based on your comments, I take it you don't play doms in PvP....
There is still a very real issue with health levels and mez protection (especially when compared to Controllers).
No, I agree that a nudge in the right direction has occured, but to say we are good now is definitely an overstatement.
Glad its your final post on the subject.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
Doesnt mind have -recharge? I thought Ice only had Slow.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Based on your comments, I take it you don't play doms in PvP....
There is still a very real issue with health levels and mez protection (especially when compared to Controllers).
No, I agree that a nudge in the right direction has occured, but to say we are good now is definitely an overstatement.
Glad its your final post on the subject.
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I've seen Dr. A. a lot in RV, and he does well, but I agree with you, I think we're still too dependant on what sort of buffs we can get to make a meaningful contribution. The increase in melee damage means nothing if we are still 2 or 3 shotted by a scrapper, or stunned by a tank.
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Doesnt mind have -recharge? I thought Ice only had Slow.
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/Psi has -recharge, as far as I can tell mind/ has no secondary effect....maybe +agro 
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
My evaluation of the AT is based on team PVP, as it should be. Not duels, and not lone wolf style play in the zones. I have been pulling hard for Dom buffs since beta and yes, I'm satisfied.
If Controller APPs are overpowered or villain PPPs are underpowered (and I believe both statements are true) they will be addressed. The core viability problems that Dominators had in I6 have already been fixed.
To some extent I feel Dominators right now actually perform better SOLO against many archetypes than they do against team. The reason for this: Clear Mind (and similar buffs). The better the opposing team, the closer your mez capabilies come to true uselessness, because while there's counterbuffs for most buffs (e.g. +damage and +resistance, +accuracy and +defense), there are very, very few ways for us to counter +mez resistance, which is a pretty commonly availible buff. Yes, we can stack past it, but it's all ready the case that I need to use more holds on a Scrapper to hold him than he needs to use hits to kill me outright; adding to that number without being able to anywhere nearly as effectively subtract from it really hurts. It's not impossible to overcome, but I can't say I feel it's balanced and reasonable.
In one on one in I7, Dominators seem to do pretty well to me. In a good team vs unorganized team environment Dominators do great (and always have; but anyone always has done great in good team vs unorganized team). In a good team vs good team environment, Dominators seem to become less effective than I feel they should be, because our mezzes become less and less effectual with break frees being backed up by Clear Minds, Clarities, Sonic Dispersions, and so forth. There needs to be more ways to counter +mez resistance before I feel Dominators are balanced in a good team vs good team environment, because our secondaries just don't do enough damage for us to truly carry our weight when our primaries aren't fully functional.
As another team pvp'er I'm afraid I disagree strongly with the Doc's opinion of where Dom's stand in I7.
I do agree that the changes so far are a step in the right direction. However, there is a big difference between us being marginally effective on a well built PvP team (which I think we are now), and being actually desirable to people putting a PvP team together. And I strongly disagree with anyone that says we are now on the same level as Controllers, I don't even think we're on the same level as Defenders yet in regards to PvP.
After considerable testing with 40+ PvP I've found that Dom's can be very effective when travelling with significant numbers of other Dominators. Put three or more of us together and we will drop the Tanker and Scrapper defenses. But really, if you don't have Dom's in numbers you may as wel not have any at all and just pick up another Corr. A single corruptor's debuffs far outweigh the control offered by a single dominator to any pvp team, as only in numbers do Dominators provide any significant ability to stack holds and override mez protection. In addition, these group tactics only work until your opponents realize whats going on and start two shotting the Dom's at the start of any engagement.
Targetting the mezzer first is a valid and smart tactic, so that is not what I have a problem with. My problems is that four out of the five hero AT's can two shot us with utter impunity, and that charging through an entire team of villains just to take out the Dom poses almost no risk. I have seen Blasters charge straight through, taking fire from brutes and corrs alike, only to drop the Dom like a paperweight and dash out before he was even at half health. I've even seen controllers do it.
What does a Dominator really bring to a PvP team if you don't have them in numbers? A corruptor brings better damage, buffs/debuffs, and they have a significant amount of control themselves. Most Brutes and Stalkers also have mezzing abilities of some kind, especially post 40. So really, all we offer is Domination. Even with the increased build up and reduced recharge time, I just don't consider 90 seconds of Domination a worthy contribution to my team, an AT has to be more than that.
To put it another way, Dominators each offer one single target hold and one aoe hold (with the exception of Mind that also has TK), along with a number of soft controls and usually a pet (except Mind again). These controls are supposed to be our schtick, this is what we do. Well post 40 just about every AT has single target holds and most have soft controls as well, some aoe's. So really, what makes Dom's distinct? What do they offer that others don't? I know you're not going to say our aoe holds cause that's just silly given their short durations and insane recharge times..... Damage from our secondary? I don't think so. So really, what do we offer?
Well, anything can be a threat if you have enough of them. Throw enough Scrappers or Blasters or anything at a problem and you'll take it down. That's not a quality of Dominators, that's just the cold hard reality of numbers.
Yes, but he make many valid points that have been brought up time and again...what is a Dom supposed to be, to do? Control...well that is a vastly weakened control that post 40 almost all toons have the ability to do to some degree . Damage...but it is still so weak that Doms are outdamaged by virtually every AT in the game not just other villains, and Doms have a damage set!
Is Domination a balance...not with break frees and the abundant mez protection available in the game. Doesn't matter how much more powerful a Dom's holds are if a single break free will still negate them.
50 Influence Inspiration > a Primary Power Set+ the AT's Inherient ability (Something is wrong there)
Throw in low HP, a low damage secondary which pushes you toward melee, and no mez protection of your own and it starts to get down right ugly.
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
I think doms could use an HP boost since they are supposed to go in melee so often, but other than that I agree with Doc that they are sitting pretty nicely right now in PvP thanks to the domination change.
Other ATs have holds, but they are not gonna hold a Stone tank in 2-3 holds, or an RV Heavy for that matter. 
While the abundance of mezz attacks in PvP is troublesome. The lack of mezz protection, at least with my Dom, is most evident in the 40+ PvE game. When nearly every mob (even soloing) has at least one critter that can stun/sleep/hold (and to a lesser extent immobilize), our active defense system is woefully inadequate to satisfactorily complete missions. Can we? Sure if we dedicate two-thirds of our INS tray to BFs and go incredibly slow. This could easily be rectified by adding mezz protection to the PPP armors. We got a boost to melee damage yet going into melee range is too hazardous in my opinion to be worth it.
I played a Fire/Fire Dom up to 35 in the CoV Beta and my first character, though not my first to 40, on live was my Ice/En Dom. I stopped leveling him until they got the problems with Dom's and PvP fixed. Cors are going to form the basis of any good PvP team simply because they have the best buffs and heals on the villain side. I wish this were more spread around, but the devs probably fear making MM buffs too strong and turning them into tank mages. I think any team that doesn't want a Dom as they stand on test is making a rather large mistake. You don't need a team of Dom's, though it probably could work if you brought 2 /Thermals and a /Sonic Cor, but thats really overkill. It takes 3 holds to get past most Scrapper/Stalker mez protection. If you have 2 Dom's on a team alternating triggering their Domination you get that in one wave of st holds. Add in an Ice Cor to lower mez protection and things get really interesting.
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Targetting the mezzer first is a valid and smart tactic, so that is not what I have a problem with. My problems is that four out of the five hero AT's can two shot us with utter impunity, and that charging through an entire team of villains just to take out the Dom poses almost no risk.
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Mez protection is best gained from a team buff IMO so that one is easy. Dom's get pretty significant resistance based shields in most of the PPP's (all but BS 
) which makes my Dom the _only_ AT that I will probably not get BS as a patron on. In addition, the resistances stack with the shields from a /Thermal and/or /Sonic very nicely.
All of the complaints you've made about Doms can be applied to Blasters and to most Cor's. Most can't give them selves mez protection. Doms, like most of the AT's, need the support of a team.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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All of the complaints you've made about Doms can be applied to Blasters and to most Cor's. Most can't give them selves mez protection. Doms, like most of the AT's, need the support of a team.
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True, but Blasters and Corrupters bring heavy damage and heavy buffage to a team.
What exactly do we bring?
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All of the complaints you've made about Doms can be applied to Blasters and to most Cor's. Most can't give them selves mez protection. Doms, like most of the AT's, need the support of a team.
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True, but Blasters and Corrupters bring heavy damage and heavy buffage to a team.
What exactly do we bring?
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And better HPs or self healing....
Dominators don't need mitigation from their secondaries. Even if they did, there's ice (slows), psi (-recharge), and fire and elec (death).
-Talen_Lee commenting on Energy Assault's Utility
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To some extent I feel Dominators right now actually perform better SOLO against many archetypes than they do against team. The reason for this: Clear Mind (and similar buffs). The better the opposing team, the closer your mez capabilies come to true uselessness, because while there's counterbuffs for most buffs (e.g. +damage and +resistance, +accuracy and +defense), there are very, very few ways for us to counter +mez resistance, which is a pretty commonly availible buff. Yes, we can stack past it, but it's all ready the case that I need to use more holds on a Scrapper to hold him than he needs to use hits to kill me outright; adding to that number without being able to anywhere nearly as effectively subtract from it really hurts. It's not impossible to overcome, but I can't say I feel it's balanced and reasonable.
In one on one in I7, Dominators seem to do pretty well to me. In a good team vs unorganized team environment Dominators do great (and always have; but anyone always has done great in good team vs unorganized team). In a good team vs good team environment, Dominators seem to become less effective than I feel they should be, because our mezzes become less and less effectual with break frees being backed up by Clear Minds, Clarities, Sonic Dispersions, and so forth. There needs to be more ways to counter +mez resistance before I feel Dominators are balanced in a good team vs good team environment, because our secondaries just don't do enough damage for us to truly carry our weight when our primaries aren't fully functional.
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This is an excellent point. It's why I feel Controllers are still considerably better than Dominators are. (Well, that and Containment.) If there's someone on hero side passing out Clear Mind or Increase Density or whatever, we become pretty much useless. The only time I'm usually willing to risk closing into melee where I can do most of my damage, considering how frequently I get two- and three-shotted, is against a mezzed target. If I can't mez anything, not only can my primary not do anything, but my secondary becomes less useful too.
But reverse the situation, with a Corruptor passing out Thaw or Clarity, and it's not nearly so rough on the Controllers. With a buffing/healing secondary they can still provide a valuable contribution to their team even if they can't get their holds to take effect.
Is there an easy way to fix this? Not that I can see.
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All of the complaints you've made about Doms can be applied to Blasters and to most Cor's. Most can't give them selves mez protection. Doms, like most of the AT's, need the support of a team.
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True, but Blasters and Corrupters bring heavy damage and heavy buffage to a team.
What exactly do we bring?
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And better HPs or self healing....
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I'm not sure I understand this argument at all. Blasters and Corruptors can only team in the arena so while it would be interesting to try that out, I don't think its a wide spread occurance.
If the question is why would a team of Cors invite Doms to their team, then that one is pretty easy. Dom's reduce the time it takes to down a target. In many ways a Dom is more effective debuffer than anything in the game. Their ability to penetrate mez protection when they have Domination up is incredible. In addition, there are some scary combos, Domination used in conjunction with Power Boost will let you do some amazing things. In short, almost anything a PvP team of 8 Cor's can do can be done more efficiently with 6 Cors and 2 Doms now. Does this mean that Dom's will replace Cors or out number them, I doubt it very much. Until the day comes that buffs have less of an impact you will have continued reliance on Cors for team PvP since MM's (the only other "buff" AT on the villain side) is subpar as a buffer.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
Two points:
He wasn't saying Blasters and Corruptors teaming up. He was saying that while those points can be applied to those two ATs, Blasters bring supreme damage and higher HP, while Corruptors seperately bring very impressive damage and the ability to self heal or self buff.
Second point: What other AT is only useful 45% of the time? If the only thing we bring to a team is the use of Domination, then we are indeed only useful 45% of the time in optimal conditions.
Think about that. What if a Tanker could only hold agro 45% of the time, or a Blaster only had amazing damage 45% of the time? Or a Defender, his buffs would only be up 45% of the time?
There'd be a [censored] riot.
Yet it seems perfectly acceptable to make Dominators a sub-par AT, with reduced Control and inferior damage. Defenders have this same problem with their ranged damage: why does a Tanker have a melee modifier of .8 as his secondary powerset, but Defenders and Dominators have .65?
It makes no sense. They at least have a number of debuffs to draw on that are up a Hell of a lot more frequently than Domination, but it's still ludicrous.
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Think about that. What if a Tanker could only hold agro 45% of the time
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I think a Tanker would be pretty lucky to hold aggro 45% of the time in PvP.
You know, I kind of doubt that. I'd think that, between Taunt and Gauntlet, it may be somewhere in the 65% range.
But if we want to talk greatly diminished capacity in PvP from PvE, okay, let's. I'm sure a Dominator will 'beat' a Tank in that field any day.
First off, I'd love to see Dom damage modifier brought up a little, I'm all about buffs.
However I think you are looking at it from the point of view of a single Dominator on a team. Add a second Dominator and the ability to cripple enemy players (and kill them due to higher damage from both assault sets) goes up exponentially. I've run with LotD in RV, and in addition to their Doms (Doc A and Creeper), I brought a team of four additional Doms (Paris, Jumproot, Fleur Du Mal and myself) in for some assistance.
Nothing touchd us. Seriously. Tanks were getting held by just one cycle of ST holds from each of us, even without domination up. Speaking of Domination, I know it was up on at least two of us at any given time - that many doms throwing fast-cycling mag 4-6 (whatever it is) holds will cripple anything - mez protection, BFs, CM be damned. With the support of the excellent Corruptors, it really was a sight to behold.
I think a secondary effect of -fly, -jump and -recharge/slow would make a big difference. It would be like a partial hold. I think it fits well with the concept of fighting through a hold, myself.
Alternately, if it reduced damage/accuracy of the opponent's attacks (ie. if hold broke due to BF it became a debuff) that would also work.
IMO, a BF broken hold having a slow/-fly/-jump/-recharge effect would fit thematically and be effective. The level of each effect could be adjusted to make it reasonable.