The_Rad

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My gadget cloaking device kinda sucks now. People I rescue no longer follow me while cloaked, I don't really have a major issue with that, that makes sense.

BUT, it seems like everyone can see me now! I will be flying along and everyone is shooting at me or otherwise attacking me. This wasn't happening before. Anyone else notice this with cloaking device

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I willing to bet you noticed this in a safeguard mission. Drawing upon some pool of wisdom beyond my understanding the devs have given all the mobs types in safeguard missions ludicriously high +perception.

I can only assume this was a further design step taken to ensure that safeguards mission were absolutly the most unfun and painful experince possible. Persumably to ensure that players avoid these missions like the plague. Possibly to create a quasi-time sink in constantly running police scanner missions since technically every 5 missions you have to run to your contact tell him no you don't want the safeguard mission before you continue on.

Just another one of the those additions that seem mainly intended to grind peoples gears. Not entire sure of the throught process on that one. Obviously my advice is to simple avoid safeguard missions as much as possible and you should be fine. At least until all malta get a +perception boost so the sappers can alpha strike at range. Since that would be extraordinarly unfun that "challenging AI enhancement" is most likely in developement. Somewhere along the line some one got their wires crossed and figured that fustration = challenge.

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If you don't want us to be able to get Hamidon Enhancements, why don't you just remove Hamidon altogether?

Better yet, why don't you create an anti-archvillain Task Force for us the way you made an anti-hero Strike Force for the villains, so we can give up this whole silly Hamidon Raiding thing. Hamidon Raids stopped being fun shortly after everyone figured out how to beat him. Now they're just work, which you keep making less and less fun in the hope of making it less and less easy.

There is nothing fun about Hamidon Raiding. Nothing. Making Hamidon attack while he's held is only going to make it even more irritating. Rather than continue to make it even more tedious, please replace it with something that could remotely be considered fun. Retire the jello blob and bring in the AVs.

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I whole heartedly agree with this sentiment. Hamidon is not fun its just long, tedious and nessicary. Why was it felt that making a painfully long and tedious encounter longer and more tedious was needed.

Inaddition whya re all the monsters in the Hive buffed up? How was that a good or useful thing to do? What positive effect exactly are the devs thinking will be acheived by sucha a change.

Again I want to stress that fustrating and challenging are two entirely sepaerte concepts. Only one of which is actually fun.

The entire Electric Melee set seems to me to have a fanatatic theme wise structure to it, however it falls somewhat short in impletementation.

First of let me really say I absolutely despise the color of this set. No No not despise loath. So for a set that really only has theme and coolness factor going for it the horrffic color choice cripples this set more than anything else. I mean the damage is ... I'll say functional. This is what makes the color so utter contemptable, it severly cripples the thematics or coolness of the set forcing this set to ride on its ability which it falls woefully short on.

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Seriously Red Lightining? [censored]? Not only does that not make sense, Not only does it look hideous dancing along your body, it also makes you look like a retarted Mu reject. If you care about character integerity then your pretty much limited Magic origins for these characters. This set more than anything else in the game makes me desperatly hungry for the (promised) ability to color my powers. It just stuns me that with the scores of lightening tossing villians out there that use normal lightening, in fact do any anywhere use goofy electricity, somehow the idea to make red lightening surfaced. So again I reiterate [censored]? Sad thing is I know they can not go back in change this so this entire set is going to have to suffer forever with this awesomely bad choice. Cryptic should seriously consider firing whoever came up with this since they clearly are far to trapped in Fantasy MMO Box to be working on a Superhero MMO.
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As for the set performance wise.
Meh. I think that is a good word for it. Not bad enough to not take but not really worthwhile taking. If you have a good (magic)theme or a good (magic) background story for a lightening villian it is certainly not bad enough to avoid. However the set is entire eclipsed by every other Brute set.

I think the biggest weak points in the set are its lack of follow ups and its way too high reliance on knockback on its central powers. It is going to be such a pain in the but playing with a level 32+ elec brute when they open every fight with lightening Rod and scatter all the MoBs.
I think the sets strenghts might be its endurance I found you could easily keep attacking and keep your end high, however you will need a secondary with stay power(NOT elec armor) to take advantage of that.

Suggestions to improve the set:[*] Strip knockback out of lightening Rod, make it either knockdown or Disorient or that electric dance thing. The knockback on this attack will be actually annoying to groups.[*] Unfetter Lightening Rod from the ground. Let it be used anywhere all rational claims to why lightening can not strike the sky flew right out the window when the set was colored red.[*] Keep Lightening Rods recharge time what it was during the level 40 test. Any longer and the power will become of dubious value. Maybe a little faster would be color though I doubt needed.[*] If chain Induction is destine to always drain exp when it kills baddies then rather than the chain harming foes it should just make them do the electric dance, a chain hold instead. Increase the single target damage to compensate perhaps giving the set the second punch it needs.[*] Give the set a left hook to go with the right one. It needs a one two combo worth talking about. Maybe up chain induction or jacobs ladder to fullfill this role.[*] Alter Thunderclap to lightening clap. Remove the knockback part (bleh to super strength rehash) and swap it out for end drain ala short circut. Maybe change the disorient to the electricity dance.



Performance: 2.5 (medicore performance)
Aesthetics: -1 (Arcing lightening should look like lightening)
Cool Factor: 4 (Though not impletemented in the best way there are some really cool powers in this set)
Novelty: 3 (Alot of rehashing of not good to begin with powers drags this set down)
Utility: 2.5 (It has a fair bit of status which is good but alot of Knockback on the important powers which is VERY bad)
Total: 2.2(Not good but still worth taking a look at)

To get through clear mind I think it is 8 standard holds for a Dom or 5 if domination is running.

This is based on the assumption that clear mind is a magnitude 15 mezz resist, standard Dom holds are magnitude 2 and mag 3 with domination up.

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btw a mini-containment would also be nice, and allieviate many ppl's complaints of damage

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My understanding was that dominators already had mini-containment. Do they not have X2 base damage on held foes in pvp and pve?
I am pretty sure I have seen that in pve, I seem to recall when I use flares on a held foe I get one big number then the usual numbers, coversely though I have never noiced it with incinerate but I attributed that to maybe a hard to detect DoT doubling.


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Agreed. How was Dominator Toggle Dropping overpowered again?


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Toggle dropping is NOT the solution for dominators in PvP. It is not a matter of balance it is a matter of horrifficaly fustrating unfunness. Constantly getting your toggles drops as a Tank was/is just so unfun it is hard to maddening. You could literally enter pvp matchs and have to concentrate so totally on your power bar to make sure your powers were running that watching the actual fight was a secondary concern.
That's friggen ridiclous to put it mildly.

I certainly agree that Doms need boost in both pvp and pve however toggle dropping is NOT it. In fact I think toggle dropping should be entirely removed from the game, ED has in large part made it obsolete.

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Can you explain how exactly the Controller version of FF is superior, despite that the Defender version will be providing more than 40% more mitigation through DEF? Even if you DO include Controller Primaries in the discussion, which is a bit shady, that's going to be a hard case to make.


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In any given fight[*]Ice Slick will mitigate some damage say at least 25% of incoming damage, I would say more like 50%.[*] Artic Air will mitigate some say 10%, I would say more like 25%[*] Jack Frost will mitigate some, say 5-20%

This is not even including mezzing which obviously will give even more damage mitigation. Really if a controller used force fields at even half the strength of a defender in most cases the controller will be providing vastly superior damage mitigation to a team then a defender will.

On top of this there are alot of bad guy powers that trump defense powers. ALOT of bad guys powers and they are growing in number with every issue. Mudpots, vengence, psi damage, fateweavers, drones? In all these cases a controller will be infinitly more effective at damage mitiagation then a defender because the controller still has his primary set to work with, long after the force field set has been trivialized.

Once your reach 90% damage mitigation, a number both can easily reach, who really cares? Controller or defender the team will generally be taking no real damage, at least none worth mentioning. Which then mean that the other things the defender or controller offers the team becomes important.
A controller bring nearly equal damage, the ability to lockdown a runner, the ability to lockdown an AV, the ability to lockdown a baddy with an auto hit AoE. Superior use of several of the none direct damage mitigation abilities in force fields. Plus a host of other nice debuffs including -perception, -speed, confuse, fear etc. etc. etc.
A defender brings some damage( though they are not generally expected to), and if the team is lucky maybe some powerful end drain. Otherwise not much else.

So controllers have:[*] Generally equal general damage mitigation[*] Superior damage mitigation when some bad guy plays a force field trump card[*] Equal or superior damage[*] Generally superior use of non-direct damage mitigation powers[*] At the epic levels the controller really gets to outstrip the defender by adding mezz protection and vastly superior damage.


All the ATs and all our characters do not exist in some theortically void where you can ask how exactly does the controller or the defender version of force fields compare. There will never be a controller that does not have their primaries and there will never be a defender without their secondaries. For the sake of purpose any comparsions MUST include all the qualities of the compared ATs otherwise your engaging in nothing more then theortical Ivory tower philosophising. The view from the ground is different than the view from the clouds.
Woulda, shoulda, coulda....

Controllers wield force fields far better than a defender can, controllers can leverage their effect far better than a defender can, controller see a greater solo benefit to force fields then a defender can. So who cares which version is stronger? The controller version is BETTER. And thats all that really matters.

Digression(aka rant)
It is annoying me to no end that a very serious issue with defenders has been revealed and while we should be discussing how bad the issue really is and ways and means to to correct it, Scores of posts have been spent in some fruitless arguements about which sheilds are stronger, the difference between primaries and secondaries or soft and hard cotnrols.

Please, this is not the thread for these disscussions. If you want to argue that controller/defender FF strength please do so to your hearts content in some other thread. In this thread could we try to work through the defender issues and possibly create a new and revised defender issue thread using the knowledge we have been given. Several empathy and psi attack peoples have raised valid points and possible solution but they to are getting drowned in all this dross. I believe, and have for some time, that defenders are overshadowed in nearly all ways by controllers now finally we have traction for that arguement, please lets not expend it on silliness.

PS:
Based off a rather vague statement of Statesman's the defense cap can be estimated to be at about 300% so neither defenders nor controllers could ever buff someone to this cap. I think people mean to say that defenders can floor MoB base accuracy. That quiet a bit different since their are alot of variables that go into determining that number. The I7 changes make the differences between minions, lts, bosses, and AVs effectively accuracy slotting rather than tohit buffs. That does not mean the MoBs still can't get tohit buffs or -def buffs.

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Note on testing:

I haven't checked this myself, but "people" say that the sets don't really acheive the final ratio of damage, etc. until level 20. I knowl, for HP, that the level 1's are all within 5 HP of each other, while at level 40-ish they've spread to whatever their final value is.

Level 15 may be a little early for testing.

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Actually I beleive "back in the day" it was said that the damage does not normalize across the board till level 30. Though most everyone reached correct ratio by level 20. So 20 should e fine but I would suggest for any real test you test at level 30 or above. Heck do it at level 50 to make sure you completely remove the variable.

Defender blasts are I am quite certain set to 66% of blaster blasts. Also blaster blasts are apprently NOT 100% effectivness but some postive percent based off some mysterious hidden number. Which we are not really privy to. Some people here have said here the corruptors are 100% blast strength. Given that they are 77% of blasters blast strength(a werid number) I consider the arguement that corruptors are in fact the baseline damage to have more than a little merit. Regardless there is no way to really know what the underlying base damage is, when the devs buffed tanks for example I think they said it was to 80% of blaster damage so that really answered nothing

For all we really know it could be:
Tanks X+5%
Scappers X+15%
Corruptors X-5%
Defenders X-15%
Blasters X+20%
C0ntrollers X-30%
With X being some magic base number. I point this out because with out really knowing the equation the math an get all wonky if your not careful.

I think we can all agree that Hard Control is an absolute sort of deal. You can not move at all, attack at all, hurt at all. Those are all hard forms of control. Soft control is fuzzier mostly because it is intentionally more vague hence the soft part.

I would argue that all debuffs, and to an extent many buffs, are in fact to one degree or another soft control. That said it is the METHOD in which the power is employed that determines if it is really a debuff or a control effect. Conrol efftect should, to me at least, control the flow of battle. So aside from hard controls anything that provides area denial(ground effects), inteferes with targeting(mass stealths, pets), force some one to attack a target of your choice(taunt), or not another target of your chioce(placate.)

This is NOT to say that the stalker placate power is really some major soft control effect because it does not effect the over all flow of battle. If someone had could put placate powers on other people at will then that would definatly be a form of soft control.

Allow me to further extend what I am trying to say to a more practical situation. Lingering Radiation is NOT a soft control power -speed be damned. It very little stratgic implications. The entire power is a straight up debuff. Conversely Mud pots, ice slick or tar patch, IS a soft control power. Both of those powers make one piece of real estate very very unfriendly, so much so that you can (sort of) control where the other guys will attack you from. Sure they could cross the patch but it is hard to do so thus most people will avoid it and thus you (soft)control their avenues of attack. Artic Air and in a way force bubble is the same sort of deal, it makes the area around the player very unfriendly and thus makes people choose to shie away giving you more control over the battlefield.
Lingering Radiation has no such effect it is a straight up, aww man I am screwed power, it inhibits the enemies ability to fight but in no way prevents them from choosing how to fight. Well at least no manner that 90% damage wouldn't have the same effect.

For the most part powers that inhibit strategy are soft controls. It does seem that the devs have made all the soft control powers more favorably to controllers, which is insane since many of the defender primary powers are in fact soft controls. Yes, yes some are debuffs as well but still they are acheiving damage mitigation via soft control.

I guess there is no point quibbling over what or what is not soft control because either way one side is is going to pay a much to heavy price to other. I suggest another method be found to resolve the issue something perhaps something less definative.

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i still want a devices primary for stalkers. that's my popular request.

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That would be awesome I so second this. Naturally a "traps" set rather than a devices set. Might not be great in pvp and possibly slow as heck in PvE but it would be hella fun to play.

So let me see if I get what is being said in Castle's post correctly.
When it is said that controllers use defender primary powers at 80% of a defenders effectiveness, what is ACTUALLY meant is that the controllers have 80% of the base debuff power, possible 80%? of the base damage/healing? and 150+% of any base control aspect? But other than that the powers are identical between both ATs.

This would explain why I found the corruptor versions so bizzarly weaker then the defender versions despite the fact that 80% usage for controllers does not seem that far off from 75% usage for corruptors. The corruptors are also getting effected by their ATs lower base control effect on the defender powers.

Sooooo It looks something like this than?
(using a defender as baseline)
AT ...............Debuff........... Control............ Damage
Defender:.....100%...............70%................. 66%
Controller:.....80%..............100%..................50%(+s pecial)
Corruptor:.....75%..................?.....................77 %
Master Mind:...?....................?.....................50%

Since I think it would be hard to argue that control or damage are superior to debuffs, so defenders get out right hosed. Even compared to the reasonably built (IMO) corruptors.

Controllers are in actual fact functionally more powerful than a defender with any defender power that relies on control more than debuffs or healing to defend a team. So not only are certain defender powers just strangely better for controllers but in fact entire defender powersets are vastly superior(force fields, storm, sonic? trick arrow?, and theortically dark) despite the "80%" reduction in effectiveness. I am guessing alot of the strange numbers and discrepences that crop up on occasion with controller secondaries are because the Devs have been hand "tweaking" them to bring them "more in line" porobably meaning that the 80% difference is little more than a paper tiger.

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All these reasons are why they are worth more XP than normal.

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Thats grand and all and should have been put into effect along time ago with many of the other villan groups, and perhaps in some cases reduce the exp.

HOWEVER

By far the most important part of this is that longbow are out right NOT fun to play against. It not even like they are a challenge there virtually nothing a team can do but zerg longbow missions. You run in die...rez...die..rez...die...rez...etc.

I play with a great group that has been playing for many months pretty much all over a year now and we may not be uber goobers but we are extremely competant, that said unless I can bring the full force of my corruptor to bear on a longbow spawn odds are the brutes are dead and there is nothing that can be done to stop that. Where is the fun in that? That is not a challenge that is called learned futlity, when nothing you do matters then you may as well just give up and either not fight them or toss yourself mondlessly zerg style against them. Not fun either way.

Archnos is not much better. The night widows are just a highlariously stupid mob. They are more or less immune to mezz, have a solid +defense AND most importantly toss smoke greandes. Let me 'splain what these do.... Do you have +perception on one of your powers? If yes fight as normal If no then you have two options stand there and do nothing or die. Boy is that some fun running into a group of archnos with a team and then have all the baddies guys *poof* so you get to stand there and do absolutely nothing, that was a friggen brilliiant desgin decision, even better when they attack you, you STILL can not see them. The part of this that is really baffles me is that tactics is pretty much the ONLY solution for most ATs soooooo now everyone has to get tactics to survive the 40+ game. But because everyone HAS to have tactics now when they go into PvP the group of them has infinite accuracy and infinite perception which complete neagtes many other characters, making what is already a horrible situation in pvp far worse.


I should mention that the longbow do NOT have a super high magnitude mezz attack. What they do have is a toggle drop attack, like in pvp. I think it is the nullifiers, the bosses and maybe the occasional grenade from the spec ops. The attack lists no horrendus special effect usually I think it is just some def debuff that gets listed but in addition to that debuff anyone hit with that attack has ALL their toggles shut off. So a brute jumps in gets hit looses all their toggles and then since the toggle drop was merely one attack in the total volume of incoming attacks the brute gets a hit alot with no defense up whatsoever. The only solution I have currently seen to deal with this is leading in with lots and lots of AoE mezz.

It is worth while noting that the average longbow spawn on a good size team will include about 4ish toggle droppers, 2 or 3 total AoE END sappers, 3-4 of those crazy flamethrower guys and a boss or two that has a series of special powers. Of particular is the one with KO blow that will literally one shot almost anyone, perhaps even more amusing is that its attacks recharge so fast that it can chain two or three extremely powerful attack out on anyone. All that and longbow is an incredibly mind blowingly common and BLAND group.

While I am on this topic I would also like to mention the level 30+ tsoo ancestor spirits as overpowered. I have only encountered these a hand ful of times however they attack with KO blow, haymaker, and XXXXX attack in quick succession which is an attack chain that does holy hell damage. A common, nearly ubiqitous Lt can hit with sufficent force to drop a brute into the red or outright massacre anyone else. Perhaps if they were somewhat rare it would be ok but they come in swarms and four of them on a group of eight probably means that there will be several deaths. Which again is not a challenge but a binary situtation. You fight <x> you die no matter what no either do not fight <x> or realize that the fight is futile and zerg it.

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Dont play the set myself but from what I can tell they are in more demand now than ever, in some casses teams usually dont do to well without them. So where is it exactley they need attention? maybe Storm? or Archery?

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We've got issues abound. Chances are you really wouldn't notice them unless you played a defender. Yeah, the entire TA set is an issue.

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The uselessness of every defender secondary in PVP is an issue.

Cheers!

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Some people just don't realize that defenders are not happy that more and more people are saying "We need a healer."

Just because "Healers" are wanted in teams does not mean that defenders don't have issues. Hobo, please do not remind me about how pitifull my damage is in PvP.

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It's not just pvp, ED evicerated my damaeg in PvE as well. I did the first FBZ taskforce just recently, inf act we started it a week before ED came in and finished a week after ED was live, and I was flat out stunned how badly my damage was hit. I REALLY did not think it would have had such a large impact on me or defenders in general but now litterally I offer no damage worth mentioning to my team in PvP OR PvE. Which is even more infuriating when a controller can put out such a steady stream of relatively good damage.

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Holy crap, a redname post in the defender forums!

This is...wow! I mean, wow! I can now honestly say that I've seen everything.

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Hey Hey!
I think one other developer posted once in here ...a long time ago. Statesman ya?

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Tankers manage aggro better than any other Archetype. They also have the highest combination of hit points and defenses in the game. Their role is to take the brunt of a spawn's aggro just long enough in order for the rest of the team to be able to eliminate the mobs.


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I disagree with this. A good controller is far better at managing aggro then a tank and have more tools to do so. Granted it is a harder play style since you are often "playing on the edge of a knife" but it is true nonetheless. This really becomes apprent in the later game where defender powers, good damage, control, pets and finally the ability to withstand a great deal of damage(armors&mezz protection) combine into one package.

Tanks like defenders have a use on a team it just so happens however that their usefulness is 1/5th that of a good controllers(1/100,000th in pvp). I have never had an easier run through the TV trial then on a team with an ill/empathy controller. Industructible pets are by far the best tanks in the game. Honestly when compared to controllers I see no real value to the defender AT other than as a play style choice. When controllers stack up against tanks I see only a marginal benefit, mostly for the unskilled. CoV proves that a control powers, defender powers and skillful aggro management can equal a tank.

From a PvP prespective I think tanks maybe perfect currently >>>> IF <<< Toggle drops are removed and mezz amounts reduced. They are no longer needed.

From a PvE I think currently Tanks have holes that are too large in their defenses. For example what role does an Invul tank serve on a team when you face alot of elemental or energy damage? They mostly function like scrappers, two sides of the same coiin. Scrappers can handle less but deal with it fast while a tank can slightly handle more but deals with it slower. This makes many tank types dangerously unreliable. Especially invulnerability and ice at least fire and stone tanks give a team time to react!! It is often better to evenly divide the aggro amongst a skilled team, that way the incoming volume of damage is predictable and can be managed, where as when a tank takes the brunt and drops where is the all the damage going now? Most often it is to the blaster or the defender which get wiped out and this leads to a cascade situation.

The very best use I have seen of tanks recently is to absorb the main attack from an AV or particulally dangerous boss. That attack would often outpace the damage mitigation on any other (buffed up) AT. Thats not to say you HAVE to have a tank but that it really just makes things alot easier.

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Weave doesn't stack with any Ice Tanker +DEF abilities. It would only protect vs. Toxic and Psionic damage.

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This is incorrect. Weave will stack with ice against all attacks expect AoE attacks. Weave, like all teh pool power +def powers functions like SR. This additionally means that weave provides defense against both psi and toxic as long as the attack is not an AoE, such as psi tornado.

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Just got out of a meeting with Geko...

I completely concur that the Wet Ice Def buff is so slender that it's pointless to slot Def Enhancements...but people already have done so.

Here's what we'll do: Wet Ice will no longer accept Def Enhancements. We'll increase the base def somewhat. Def Enhancements that are currently slotted will continue to have an effect, but players won't be able to slot new Def Enhancements into it.

We're also adding resistance to Toxic in Permafrost to bring it into line with Invulnerability's Resist Elements.

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Ok I have to honestly say that these ice tanker changes look totally looney. Having played an SR scrapper and invulnerability scrapper there is absolutly NO DOUBT in my mind that +RES > +DEF. From my fire tank and my personal herding attempts I have learned that even the base 5%+def added by combat jump is a very significant boost when mass herding, so definately there is a synergy of some kind between +def and +res that is far superior to the some of its parts.


These Ice tank changes however seem absurd can someone take me through the ice set maybe I am missing something that makes the devs think this set is so fanastic. Here is what I got:
[*]Chilling Embrace: If this can attain the slow cap then this would sort of mitigate incoming damage by 50% in the long haul. This would do nothing to blunt the first set of attacks. Furthermore there is something very screwy with the way slow powers interact with villians. So I guess the question is how good is chilling embrace really?
[*]Energy absorption: Ok I have eclipse on my warshade which I am guessing was copied from this power. Assuming that EA and eclipse are identical, which means EA, boosts (Def, end, acc, and dmg)? this does not seem too bad for that power since it is a click and not a toggle. There is of one caveat which is that using it for defense is very very difficult and this power should NOT be a corner stone of the characters defense. So how good is energy absorption really did it orginally provide crazy defense boosts? Not really interested in numbers because they don't really reflect the game I am more interested in here ancedotal evidence and opinions.
[*] Wet Ice: Ok so assuming this power become 3% unenhanceable. Is that level of defense useful or meaningful in the ice set. Understanding that I4 combat jump was a noticible boost to my fire tanks survivability I am not willingto off the cuff discount seemingly trivial defensive boosts. HOWEVER it seems to me that trival def boost are really benefical when their is some other form of damage mitigation going on, especially resistance and alot less valuable to a set that relies wholy on defense or lack thereof. So what does a say 3% boost push ice's overall defense numbers to? Will it matter or is this power now only for status protection, which would make it by FAR the crappiest power in tanker sets for that benefit. If this is the case then I really think Wet ice should follow Practiced Brawler and be a click.


Two final points:

The thing that really stuns me with the devs silly choices is that they make it so that the defensive values are based off fighting even con minions. However fighting even +1 con minions rip the defense vaues apart. SR is my prime example you can get to about 47.5% def verse all attacks with 30 slots. Which caps minions but still leaves the scrapper vulnerable to LTs and bosses and since they have no other form of mitigation they take the full brunt of the damage from a boss which has what a 1/5 chance of hitting them, this means that before the tenth attack lands the scrapper is crippled or dead, not counting any Lts or lucky minion hits.
Now three addition factors work to futher cripple defense sets which in the above case are already a touch dicey. [*] The game is ripe with -def debuffs. Virtually every attack in the game has this componenant and since defense sets fail in an exponetial and often suddenly catestrophic fashion when these debuffs start landing defense sets are even worse off. Bascially I beleive all "weapon attacks" reduce defense, like swords, shurkien, rifles, claws arrows etc.[*] There are many +acc attacks in the game. This often seems to get glossed over but I am fairly sure that the viallans get the same inherant accuracy buffs that heros do. This means that certain energy attacks, all martial arts, rifles, and possible all weapons(everything that has to be drawn yes?). Also certain foes actually buff their own accuracy, including Nemesis, Devouring earth and CoT.[*]The final and most important weakness in all defense sets is level differances. Clearly and player is suppose to team up when playing CoH and they almost always means they will be facing villans 1-6 levels higher. Since the villians accuracy gets buffed the further up in levels they go this makes things very very dicey for defense sets on a team. Several times I have gotten smashed senseless by the combination of increased volume of attacks from higher level foes. Getting hit by one in attack in 5 is catestropic if you rely only on defense.

Second point:
In Statesmans rebuttel to Circeus numbers he said:
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A quick scan down at the damage comparison shows that Invulnerability is superior only in Smashing, Lethal Damage and Fire damage; Ice bests Invulnerability in the other categories.

Unless an Invulnerability Tanker fires off Invincibility when 12 or more mobs are within range, according to Circeus' chart, Ice Armor will be superior to Invulnerability against Cold, Psionic, Toxic, Energy and Negative.


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It seriously need to be pointed out that the most common attack types by at least twice at ALL levels is smash/lethal. In fact often attacks S/L is coupled with other rarer attack types making it even MORE common. So saying that ice has superior protection verse Cold(super rare), Psionic(rare), toxic(rare), Energy(common) and Negative(uncommon) is silly when Invulnerabilty is superior in Smash(Ultra common), lethal( very common), and fire(common).

It also is worth mentioning that smash/lethal is almost always the most damaging forms of attacks. The only attack that I have seen with comparitive damage is the psionic mind spear attack.

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JESUS!!!!

.5 % defense?? I thought it was a bug.. dear god... why do they bother to say that power offers defense?

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Actually if the power can be slotted up to a total of +3% defense then it would be probably be better to either remove the ability to slot the power for +def and set it at 3% or just remove the +def component completely.

3% +def is virtually nothing, you need to take like what 20 attacks for that to make even a little difference. Players who DO NOT read the forums will end up wasting slots in that power thinking they will see some meaningful return on their investment. Which will not be the case.

Thats is definatly not cool as it punishes players who do not come to the forums or number crunch the game.

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Look. It's simple.

Force Fields - go on the user or a target. Protect that target from everything that can't exceed the defense.

RI and Darkest Night - go on an enemy. Protect everyone from that enemy so long as the debuff is sufficent to ruin his base toHit.

The idea that these two powers are in imbalance is ludicrous. They do two totally different things. DN/RI protect the team from one foe and those foes who happen to be near them. FF bubbles protect one person from any foe no matter where that foe is in relation to anyone else.


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That very good way to see things from a myopic non-defender viewpoint. However keep in mind the force field defender actually has to, you know.... actually play their character at some point rather then run behind a real hero and cheer them on to victory. In which case Force field defenders are considerable "less" than a Rad defender. Which is not to say Rad defenders are fanastic mind you, its more of a poor person in america is better off then a poor person in africa sorta situation. The lesser of two evils.

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Every powerset does not need to be as good as every other powerset at every possible task in order to be "balanced". Learning and accepting this will do wonders for your blood pressure.

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An interesting statement that does not really make sense. Someone has to play the other "weaker" powerset. Which then begs the question why would someone bother when they could play the better poweret.

Again and again I point out it is not perfect balance that must be achived but rather perfect domination that must be avoided. If two defender sets are vastly better than the rest then their is an issue. The exact same issue that occurs when two AT are better than the rest.

I get the feeling that the Devs think Rad or dark defenders are where everyone in the game should be. I once felt this way as well, however much like the genie's bottle you can't get the game back to that level with out horrifically breaking it.

All this stuff is fluff that masks the real issue 5. The issue 5 I want to know about. Which is the, one would assume massive, "rebalancing" that in the works. Because if Invulnerabilty is too powerful and defenders are just right.... That is possibly a very deep dark nerfage hole we are looking at.

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Why atleast they get new powers. There is nothing for Scrappers or tanker. I love the way they have been left out in the cold.
Later,

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Us Scrappers got a lot of updates in I4. Look at all the nerfs we got. I guess we should be falsey pleased with all of them. All hail Devs. We bring sacrifices to you as poor peasant worshippers. NOOOOOT!

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The most balanced AT in te game right now is the Defender. Since Controller and Blasters share there powers already the

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Man, I love reading this. Defenders are balanced. [censored]. If defenders are balanced then so is Michael Jackson.

Let me ask, what is balanced about them?
That 3 of the primaries (Rad, Dark and Kin) can be built to solo AVs while 2 (Emp, FF) have no chance in hell?
That individual powers (RI, Darkest Night) are as effective if not better than entire primaries (FF)?
That (apparently) many defenders do not feel needed in higher levels (presumably due to Controllers being just as good/better)?

So how are they balanced?

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I think the balanced part of defenders is suppose to be the extra 9000 hours it takes for a defender to accomplise even the simplest missions and the wonderful impression of statues and/or corpses they do in the arena. Once all the other AT reach that level of perfection I am sure CoH will be perfect (ly uninteresting).

Also I think people are just looking at this wrong, it's not defender primaries that get getting shared with controllers, but instead controller secondaries and blaster primaries that are getting shared with their sidekicks the defenders. Defender's should graciously except the gifts of the real heros in the game, cause then maybe someday they will grow up and be real heros to.

Seriously ever notice how much better a blaster or controller is when they have a pet defender to cheer them on from the background. I just really hope that at some point defenders become Willows and not Xanders.

Its sounds to me like rather than States be the avatar of a greek god, the greek gods themselves were super..er.. peoples.

This is a moderatly common theme when a superheroverse trys to flesh out its history. Bascially to retrofit super beings into exsistance they take key figures from the past and point out that maybe they were metahumans that people mistook for gods.

In this case the Incarnate Epic AT would involve unlocking some ability, in some fashion in a manner that has always exsisted. So in 10,000 -5000 BC some dude named Thoth uncovered the method and made it quasi-public knowledge and BAM!!! Instant pantheon of Gods, and then somehow some greek dude got their hands on the knowledge and BAM!! Pantheon x2.

If so than Legba(?) the Admanstor, Heerat, Emerrth and a whole host of other CoH characters could be ancient and particular famous/powerful incarantes.

Statesman and Recluse could be a knew cycle of people uncovering this ancient knoweldge long lost knowldge and when players get to become Incarnates their characters somehow get access to this info/item.... Maybe it even some sort of ancient magic crystals that people might be interste in fighting over

Of course rather that just declaring states a god our modern would is to savvy and agonstic for that and see him for what he really is a really powerful gifted human. On the surface not a whole lot different then alot of recently cropping up people that have via magic, training or science this super abilites.

As for States "Zeus" ability if could just be an Homage to Zeus, perhaps he unlocked incarnate via some artifact left behind by Zeus.

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Just another negative addition to gameplay....

Now, I cant...

1. Create a team in Perez park and have two different groups hunting on opposite sides for fun fast xp in the early levels.


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Why would you even bother with this? If you are going to be in two sperate groups on two seperate sides of PP then you ARE in effect two seperate teams. Seriously why not just hunt in the same group or near each other.

This is an extremely minor hit to gameplay well worth the price of admission.

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2. I wont be able to get the experience from the battle I died in when buffing because the battle ussualy takes longer than a minute and so does most rez powers.

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So in some magtastic fashion after you buff the teamates and then die in a street mission the entire battle wanders off 300ft away from your body? Oh yes that happens all the time... or wait how about nearly never. Again well wroth the price of admission.

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Which basically means that - as states has refused to address one of the major topics - split teaming WHEN STREET HUNTING - since it's allowed in missions - is against the rules.


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Well since you are in two seperate teams then either act as seperate teams or jsut quicky complete the kill task, since everyone gets credit and then do somethign else. Heaven forfend this bloody curse of thrice damned logic that has been brought down upon us!!!
But oh yes this change clearly indicates it is against the rules any fool can see the logic in that statement. Oh no wait... thats suppose to be anoyone would have to eb a fool to see the logic in that statement I get those mixed up sometimes.

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Ya know, I often get together with SG mates in PI or the RCS & we just split up & hunt the zone for xp. This tactic completely eliminates that opportunity, & from that perspective it's pretty annoying. I don't suppose anything I have to say will get any attention, but I thought I'd share that anyway.


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I can empathize with this actually. I fully understand that this si stomping on this time of play style unfortunatly this is a sacrifice thats just needs to be made for the long term benefit of the game. Sucks that you get dinged by it.

To the person that was pointing out that you can slot moonbeam to 400ft.
Assuming that you were trying to shoot a foe 400ft away and every shot missed and then a meteor fell from the sky and smote the villain for you, then yes, in that situation you would not get exp.

Jebuz save us.
I can not believe some of these questions.

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They are availible in level 45s, and connection or not can be gotten. On the new system anyone on a team that does damage, gets one. If you have friends or SG mates that go to raids, simply ask to come with them, Explain your situation, i know for my end if a SG member or in game friend had the same problem i would have no issue letting them team, and i guess leech a hamiO for there time. But basicly you dont have to be in the thick of it. Infact depending on your build a defender or something could operate outside of the mass, teleporting fallen team mates, and rezing etc. But just being on the team will get you a HamiO

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Ok I just want to explain the reality of this situation. I am not try to be adversarial here just giving the facts on a small scale and extrapolating to a larger one. Here is my expereince with the Hamidon.

After I became aware of the seriouness HOs I would inform every member of my SG, every friend on my friendslist and even ran down the level 40+ list by individual AT and invited every person I knew on.

The NEARLY universal response I recieved was either "been there done that" or "Yeah I get around to that sometime." About three out of I would say 50ish were interested.

So I then politely asked most of these people if they were interested in PvP and if so did they realise how important HOs were to PvP.

Nearly every person was interested in PvP, as in I literally know only one lvl 40+ player who does not have at least a passing interest in PvP.
They were for the most part at least vaguely aware of HOs.
None of them were interested.

So I politely and carefully as possible, talked up the raid, PvP and pushed the "power of HOs " Trying to make it as clear as I could that I thought HOs would be very important and to really play uber tier PvP you would need some.

Yup that sucks, not interested was the answer I got.
For the most part they were pretty clear, no raiding for no reason. They are will to wait and see how much PvP hindges on raiding and though it was left unsaid I got the impression that if HOs were vital they they would look elsewhere for fun.
Not including the people I met at the raids I think I have 2 friends that are willing to raid.

I am concerned for the health of PvP so to several of these people I offered to let them team with me and I would fight the hamidon and they could afk, fight monsters or whatever so they would get the enhancements. Now I hate leeching, ALOT, however this is a greater good sorta situation so I was willing to offer. The biggest problem with making the offer is phrase it the least insulting fashion possible. How does one say to another player hey come into this zone I'll do the all work so you can play in PvP and not sound condeceding?

Everyone of them was very nearly insulted by the suggestion.

So the moral of this story is that no matter how easy or important something is most players will not parcitpate in it if the do not like it, and ALOT of people do not like the Hamidon.

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Oh, you mean like in SWG? I thought you said they were unsuccessful in PvP.

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Ok seriously, if you actual think that SWG had anything at all resembling a healthy PvP system or experience then the differance in our opinions are simply too vast to conquer.

If you were refering to base raids in SWG then I say that even what is clearly a good idea can be mangled by a horribly executed PvP system. I was in fact refering to third party accounts of Raids systems in other MMORPGs such as Lineage, or possibly DAoC.

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What I'm trying to say is that MMO's have about 20% (by your numbers) PvP and FPS games have about 75% PvP because of game design. When a game is designed for co-op play, no matter the game type, that's what is most used. When a game is designed for PvP... guess what... that's what you get.

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To quible with you :
Battlefield:blah blahs, Starfleet command and many other are dedicated to the team effort.
Also FPS get about 2million+ players where as SWG PvP would have had 66,000 at it's height. That's an awfully large difference paying to play would be more likley factor.

Regardless FPS is simply more successful why? and what can be drafted into serving MMOs. Base raid style play is just one supremely succesful idea that FPS may have to offer. So I say stop looking to old MMRPGs and look to other MMOs.