Official Thread for Empowerment stations
By
Agent_117,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 13:22 in Developers' Corner
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I was considering the creation of something more powerful than inspirations. Apparently these buffs are worthless. If they had any worth at all in any situation, they would bring a price in the game economy. If you could get a buff that was reasonably made for 1 hour that allowed you to see through hide + invis or regen 50 percent more per second, higher level players would be shelling out the infamy/influence for odds and ends they don't currently have.
Anyways, why pay 50 infamy for a 60second inspiration when you can get a buff from a teammate for free?
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"more powerful than inspirations" is tricky. You can't completely out-class inspirations, as you say, it would create a huge market for salvage. However, the current effects are far too weak compared to inspirations - especially since most of them are only part of an inspiration's effect.
Perhaps they should do exactly what the inspirations do, the benefit being that they last 15 minutes instead of 30 seconds.
What we really need are more effects that can't be gained from Inspirations. Grant Invis is a great example of this. Resist End Drain isn't a bad idea, it's not exactly a Catch a Breath, but the cost is way too high compared to CaBs to be worth the slight difference in how it's used.
Consider if you could pick these up as temp powers: Aid Other. Aid Self. Stimulant. Hover. Web Grenade. Recall Friend. Teleport Foe. Group Teleport. Inertial Reduction. Black Hole. Rise of the Phoenix. Power Boost. Boost Range. Combat Jumping.
I'm listing things that are not damage powers, and are kind of situational, and are generally "fun" to play with.
However unlike prestige an infamy you can't reallly farm salvage. It's a random drop, you can run missions on Relentless/Invincible forever and get some nice salvage but not enough to really consider it "farming"...in my experience even common salvage is somewhat rare.
Never trading and running both solo and groups (groups mostly on relentless) my lvl 40 corruptor has about 75 pieces of salvage and all I ever used or traded was really common stuff that I have 10+ of...and that was just once. and I have maybe 20 components most of which are made with 2-3 common/uncommon salvage bits...
so over 40 levels of play I've gotten a total of maybe 120 salvage pieces of varying quality...and was never powerleveld...
What should have been done was something along the lines of; Instead of a 15 minutes 5% psionic resistance. It should ahve read. The first 5 hits from a psionic source is negated.
Haveing problem with a AV that is putting you to sleep?
Instead of 15 minutes of REsistance to sleep (which would where ff before you got to the problem) It shoudl be the first 5 times you are hit with a sleep it is negated.
This would eliminate the short duration. make them ueful and make it hard to stockpile. After all. those 5 sleeps could be from minions. Not nesicerraly AV's.
and have it just require 2 pieces of salvage for 1 of these "temp powers"
These stations sound kinda useless to me.
If I was in charge of them, I would set things up so that you could construct several different types, offering different benefits:
1) Inspir and Enhancement construction
2) 1st tier temp powers - same as Siren's Call agent
3) 2nd tier temp powers - better ones like invis and phase shift, with anti-invis and basically the temp powers you get from mishes (like rifles).
4) 3rd tier temp powers - Throw in a set of 3 2nd tier salvage to gain a 5 use pet summon temp power. Choose from any pet you have a Gladiator badge of (or better still, introduce SG Gladiator badges and use them as the basis)
Heck, I'd be happy if the station just built the 60 mins jetpacks. Even that would at least be fun, and sometimes useful.
The Widow's Dark Hand - leader of Faux Pas
Champion Server
Tee Hee!
Ok, so I kinda feel like an idiot, but I can't find the empowerment stations in the Edit Base tabs on the Test Server. So, um, where are they?
EDIT: Nm, found em. For some reason I didn't think to select/enter the workshop so the empowerment tabs would appear. Duh.
My idea was a rough example. It is my understanding that there are three tiers of enhancment.
tier one could maybe give you 1 or 2 resists.
Then go from there. so yeah 2 pieces of salavage that gives you resistance to 1 instance of an attack would seem fair. And It would seem to me to be more in line with what empowerment staions are supposed to symbolize.
That joker makes a new sleeping gas and is robbing banks by putting everyone to sleep. Batman mixes up some Bat wakeup pill before he goes to fight the joker.
The Joker tries to put Batman to sleep but Batman says something witty and clobbers the Joker.
These buffs need buffs, and I'm not talking empowerment station buffs...
These things are absolutely awful the way they're implemented. Were I king of bases, this would be how they'd work:
1: Duration is 1/2 or 1/3 of what it is now.
2: The buffs are produced as unique inspirations.
3: You can only have 1 of each inspiration.
4: When Bob converts his salvage into a buff, it permanently enables the machine to give Bob buff inspirations. That is, each individual player buys access to the station's inspiration shop with salvage, where inspirations can be bought for a reasonable price.
Really though, we need to either cut the costs drastically, or make these into temporary powers that the player can trigger. Balance wise, compare these things (I refuse to call them "Buffs") to the Bloody Bay temporary power. I'll take a mission long elite boss over 15 minutes of two fifths of hasten any day, and the Shivan is easier to get too.
Have the devs said anything on this? I'd be interested in hearing their reasons for makeing the buffs so miniscule.
It seems like everything to do with bases is completely out of whack.
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These things are absolutely awful the way they're implemented. Were I king of bases, this would be how they'd work:
1: Duration is 1/2 or 1/3 of what it is now.
2: The buffs are produced as unique inspirations.
3: You can only have 1 of each inspiration.
4: When Bob converts his salvage into a buff, it permanently enables the machine to give Bob buff inspirations. That is, each individual player buys access to the station's inspiration shop with salvage, where inspirations can be bought for a reasonable price.
Really though, we need to either cut the costs drastically, or make these into temporary powers that the player can trigger. Balance wise, compare these things (I refuse to call them "Buffs") to the Bloody Bay temporary power. I'll take a mission long elite boss over 15 minutes of two fifths of hasten any day, and the Shivan is easier to get too.
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QFT. Someone mentioned earlier that if rezzing at your base made you reappear at your mission door (like it did in CoV Beta at one point) it *might* be worth it a little bit if you died fighting a tough boss. You could rez at your base, buff up, then go back to face that boss.
But now you have to factor in travel time to your mission, and really the buffs for the most part aren't as good as inspirations. (The inspiration bins are going to be great for this kind of "strategy" ... die in a mission, rez at base, grab whatever inspirations you need and then run back to your mish... don't have to worry about a duration on inspirations!)
A lot of people don't like strategies that rely on being defeated in the first place, though.
It's sad that empowerment stations were one of the things that were touted as being base improvements for small sg's, but I don't see them being useful to even the largest sg's.
Wow, these things suck. Wish I'd read this thread BEFORE I placed 'em, lol.
Actually, having them placed will just keep other SG members from blowing salvage by creating them as personal items.
I was so looking forward to these, but it seems inspirations trump them EVERY time.
And are cheaper.
And can be saved.
And are easier and quicker to get.
Seriously, why are they so weak (and expensive)? Some rationale explaining it would be nice.
...in CoH racing to 50 is like trying to race to the end of your vacation. -Arcanaville
Debt barely slows down levelling these days. It's just a little bar that measures how much Awesome you've generated recently. (If you're not getting debt, you're just not trying to generate Awesome hard enough.) -Kelenar
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What we really need are more effects that can't be gained from Inspirations. Grant Invis is a great example of this. Resist End Drain isn't a bad idea
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Indeed. Years ago, I burned out my loot phase for items and crafting with Diablo 2. I'm still not inclined. So at 47 my newest main has a metric ton of salvage that looks cool, but whose purpose and usage I don't much care about. Now that there are storage bins I'll probably head to the base sometime and drop it all in there for the sg leaders to do with as they will.
But it would be nice if these apparently-useless stations were for building charged temp-power buffs of the utility variety. F.ex, most of my characters are Super Speeders. When I need to get to an inaccessible badge like Ace or Top Dog, I used to have to beg for a friendly Recall. Now I can run to the PvP zone and buy a 30-minute temporary flight pack. That makes me happy. A week ago I needed to run the Mole Point mission in the Shard, so I grabbed a Teleport Pack that was enough to get around for the duration of the mission. Good stuff. Sidebar, why isn't there a station that sells these kinds of powers in the shard itself? Gravity geysers. Good grief. Anyway ...
I would love for these Empowerment buffs to be of that sort of utility, with maybe three or five charges per use. Some of the types that they have (resistances) aren't so bad. If a Psi resist weren't obscenely expensive, I'd gladly keep one around to use a charge when entering a fight with Babbage, CWK, Mother Mayhem, or so on. Three charges would be nice, one would be acceptable if the price was low, for a situational temp power that you can build in advance and use on demand. As it is, the prep time, activation, and short duration are almost as much obstacles as the gross prices.
Charged unenhanceable temp powers that duplicate various pool power effects, unusual resistances, and highly situational abilities would be very nice. The strongest ones could be one-shot. The lesser ones could be three or five uses each. These Stations seem like a good idea, badly implemented, but at least there's potential. As is, I don't expect anyone to use them.
Please try MA arc ID 351455, "Shard Stories: Scavenger's Hunt." Originally created for the Dr. Aeon contest, it explores the wild potential of one of the City's most concept-rich but content-poor settings: the Shadow Shard.
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Just so I am clear...because the idea that was put forward by Positron, got changed on the implimentation level (likely so that it would work in the first place) everyone feels that it isn't worth it to them on a personal level?
I'm sorry...but this game is not SWG, it's not EQ, it's not WoW...if people want to play those games, they should play those games.
I do a lot of work to help the SG I am in grow and prosper, and I personally don't like the idea that people want the game made easier to solo. If you want access to the better functions of a base...Join a larger SG.
I do not comprehend why everyone seems to think that this game should be designed around their own personal situation, as opposed to how the Devs can maximize and improve the game in the way that THEY envision it.
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I realize this is after the fact...by a bit...but I had to address this. This game is supposed to have been created to give us the feel of being comic book superheroes or cartoon superheroes. Until Justice League Unlimited or with the possible exception of the Legion of Superheroes. What super hero organizations have over 20 active members at one time? Go ahead. Give me a list. That is why it should be made so that groups of 10 or so Supers can get together and form a team and make a difference and what about the host of supers in the comics who have a base of their own and are solo? Batcave anyone? Fortress of Solitude? Okay so this is a computer game. But to be like the Genre it is supposed to emulate and to cater to the players who are the ones looking for that Genre they need to develop according to those lines. Solo play is very Genre like. So is some team play for mega baddies like the TF's and GM's...but it is not normative to the Genre. I would say that if the Fantasy style games are geared to solo they are the ones going against Genre convention not this one.
That is my Rant.
Carbide Titan
Any buff that has a short duration from the time you make it is very un-fun. This means you cannot plan ahead for a big raid. You cannot spend time between raids "gearing up" or "crafting" for it.
Honestly, these empowerment stations are a gigantic let down. The powers themselves are not even cool.
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OMG look at the cost for the invisibility buff! That's more than the cost for five (5!) basic telepads! For a 15 minute invis buff???
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The cost for these buffs, which only last 15 mins, need to come WAY down so characters in small supergroups can get them more than once or twice every 10 character levels.
Looks like the enpowerment station was designed by the same guy who designed base rent and base item costs. When is he going to be fired?
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An the subcommitte that came up with the Enhancement diversication name.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
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These station don't help anyone. I have yet to see one positve post about these items here except that now they dont use power or control.
What would make these empowerment stations worth using is if they made inspires. Have different levels of salvage make different tiers of inspires which you can then store in your new inspire storage!
Or enhancement makers. TO,DO and SO based on the level you are and the type of salvage.
Or temp power makers. At least the stuff sold at the arena or pvp zones.
Or costume piece makers! Get enough nemesis salvage and unlock a nem helmet.
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/totally cool
I would Costume hunt for salavage like i badge hunt now. Would be totally fun and a matter of accomplishment.
Pinnacle
Arch light L50 INV/SS
Psiberia L50 Kin/Psi
Screaming Mentallica L50 Sonic/MM
Infinity
Arc Voltinator L50 SS/Elec
Mind Fire Kinesis L50 Fire/Kin
Flaming Screamer L50 Fire/Sonic
Does anyone know if the Empowerment Stations (and the Worktables, for that matter) are supposed to be hooked into the Salvage Storage racks? It would be much nicer to be able to see everything I can make with all my base storage than have to keep running back and forth between the stoarge racks and the other stations, checking recipes and gathering ingredients...
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
English does not borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, hits them over the head, and rifles through their pockets for loose grammar.
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AH HA! Winner! I've managed to construct a tier 2 station with one group and a tier 3(only able to be built on the tier 2 station) station with another. Duration does not increase, but scale of the buff seems to increase. So, you have possibly 20 minutes of cracting, to get a 15 minute power that rushing you might make it through most of a solo mission on heroic/villainous with.
Now, if these temp powers became on demand, so we could save them for use when there were most needed, the rest of the system would be more acceptable. However, why go up to teir 3? Well, I can't actually confirm the effectiveness increase of the buffs, this stuff takes too much salvage to build to just test for the sake of testing, when the bases still have telepads and such that need to be built from that salvage. So, if the higher tier stations yielded more charges, or actually increased the duration(as indicated in their description before you build them) per charge, then a tier 3 would certainly be worth the 60k prestige and salvage use.
Now it has been stated that a single buff, from multiple stations, will stack. Unfortunately, you'd have a LOT of prep work to do, then have to buff yourself at each station, then run out and have your buff partially gone, before you ever got to a mission or outdoor area that you got the buff for. Nobody will ever use on of these in a Hamidon raid, unless they wait in the base, communicating with somebody at the "Staging rock" to know exactly when to create the buff and come use it until their first face plant, that some nice defender, controller, or medicine pool user picks them up from.
So, make them on demand temp powers, not activated at the time of building, but placed like other temp powers, that can be activated(and some deactivated to save charge time) when they are needed, as opposed to use ruching to try and milk every precious second of those medium(at best) strength buffs.
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Wow, these things suck. Wish I'd read this thread BEFORE I placed 'em, lol.
Actually, having them placed will just keep other SG members from blowing salvage by creating them as personal items.
I was so looking forward to these, but it seems inspirations trump them EVERY time.
And are cheaper.
And can be saved.
And are easier and quicker to get.
Seriously, why are they so weak (and expensive)? Some rationale explaining it would be nice.
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Most I've heard is from Positron saying that mutliple stations can stack.....so you can have several instances of a lousy power!
Why we dont just make these GOOD, unstackable buffs is beyond me.....
Don't mistake coincidence for fate.
Tyrant Kaiser Necro/Pois ~ 50
Moriyama Emp/Dark ~ 50
Divine Leliel Claws/Invuln ~ 50
Divine Zeruel Dark Melee/SR20DET ~ 50
Lil Mori Fire/Kin ~ 39
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XBox Live Gamertag: Loki 240SX
Where are the empowerment stations located in the base edit menu?
Global Chat: @Prime Knight
Liberty
{Heroes}
Panthera Knight - Claws/SR/BM scrapper 50!!
Prime Knight - Mind/Kin/Psi controller 50!!
Pshun Keru - Triform peacebringer 50!!
Pius Knight - BS/DA scrapper +20
{Villains}
Kaiser Presul - Rob/FF mastermind +30
on the "sucky waste of time/salvage" tab
You need to create or be in in a "workshop" room... then it's just a tab called arcane / tech empoerment or something...
To the dev's :::: Logically If I'm using PHYSICAL COMPNENTS to "build" my temporary power... then logically i shouls get a PHYSICAL COMPONENT back that I can ACTIVATE at my descretion for my "buff" ....
hence... make it a clicky buff instead of a near useless 10 minute time (5 minutes being for travel time)
also make the buffs more effective and not stackable... to much salvage otherwise.
I am seriously underwhelmed by these empowerment stations. Took a while to gather enough of the right types of salvage in the bins, but yesterday I managed to make a tier 2 magic and a tier 3 tech station. I made a nice little list of what was offered at what cost, and told the SG to forget about it. We're a medium sized SG, with some 15-20 people logging in daily. In 8 months, we managed to grab only enough rare salvage to make 8 of the rare components. Wasting them on a 15 minute buff? No way. Not going to happen.
As I see it, there are maybe 2 or 3 buffs that are worth spending salvage on, and then only for things like the Recluse TF. The rest? Pff, keep em.
Linna
Matt Miller: The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the �equivalent� powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character.
I was considering the creation of something more powerful than inspirations. Apparently these buffs are worthless. If they had any worth at all in any situation, they would bring a price in the game economy. If you could get a buff that was reasonably made for 1 hour that allowed you to see through hide + invis or regen 50 percent more per second, higher level players would be shelling out the infamy/influence for odds and ends they don't currently have.
Anyways, why pay 50 infamy for a 60second inspiration when you can get a buff from a teammate for free?