Official Thread for Empowerment stations
By
Agent_117,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 13:22 in Developers' Corner
Ok, this is rediculous...
My SG is composed of five fairly dedicated and active players, and We've built our base to the basics (control, teleport, power, and workshop) and are slowly working toward a med room. Every purchase we make needs a good hard look to see if it's the right thing for the base at that time.
I (as co-founder) was really looking forward to this as a place to lose all the arcane (we're tech) salvage that we've been hauling around since day one of sg creation, but there is no way we're going to purchase this thing because the cost severely outweighs the benefits.
I would ask the dev's how this is really supposed to help small sg's?
I agree with the poster that mentioned that this is only really a way to take care of a perceived "glut" in the salvage market, versus a way to actually help the smaller sg's out there.
Could we please see a resolution to this?
(please?)
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I would ask the dev's how this is really supposed to help small sg's?
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I think the difference is in defining "small".
This is a fine feature for a small SG that doesn't want to use salvage to get raid-ready.
This is fine for a large SG that is completely raid-ready and doesn't need to buy anything else.
The problem is that this is not good for *growing* SGs. Small SGs that want to become big are going to be distracted by the nice shiney object and... oh... powerup... shiney..........
I am a little confused.
First off I am a little underwhelmed by what I saw of the Empowerment stations. The costs might need to be retooled, or the buffs can be altered slightly...but this is Test after all...The Devs need to know if there are issues with how things work
But what I don't understand is all the complaining that is happening. Too many people complaining this won't help a small SG...Why does it have to? Individual flats will be coming out at some point in the future...why does a SG base have to be geared to a small casual group?
None...I repeat...NONE of this stuff existed before...How people can complain so much is amazing.
Please note...this message is not for anyone that has offered a solution to the complain they have...this is directed at everyone complaining they were lied to. I ask one question of the complainers...Why would the Dev s want to have tons and tons of 5 person SGs with Bases? Each one takes up server space does it not? Does the base exist if no one is in it? Do the Empowerment stations, as they are...Hurt the game in any way? Is the game worse off having these than not having them at all? It is an aditional option that is now availlable.
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Too many people complaining this won't help a small SG...Why does it have to?
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Because that was the explicit stated purpose of Empowerment Stations.
They were supposed to be the feature that made bases useful for SGs of around 10 members or so (based on the prestige costs).
I can only hope that Positron gave the salvage numbers to someone else to work on, and when he sees what was done with them, he'll slam open the doors like the wizard in the Sorcerer's Apprentice in Fantasia and be really furious with Mickey Mouse who did the salvage coding and then he will set everything right and Empowerment Stations will be good.
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But what I don't understand is all the complaining that is happening. Too many people complaining this won't help a small SG...Why does it have to? Individual flats will be coming out at some point in the future...why does a SG base have to be geared to a small casual group?
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They have to help small SGs because that's what they were designed for. The devs have been saying for months that Empowerment Stations were specifically developed to give small SGs something to do with their salvage.
The "complaining" is all based on the feeling that small SGs can't really benefit from these stations with the current buff prices.
Each buff takes at least 9 components. Each component takes at least 3 salvage. So, at a minimum, a player needs 27 pieces of salvage to get one of the cheapest buffs.
Let's be generous and give salvage a 1:20 drop rate (5%), and assume a player will only get the exact salvage they need for a buff. 540 mobs later you can create a buff that makes you wake up sooner after being mezzed by Sleep effects for 15 minutes.
Now, to be fair, I haven't tested the exact percentages of damage resistance provided by some of the better buffs, but unless they're upwards of 50%, they're not worth it.
This just seems to be "more" of the Base Cost Mentality.
Things that are neat should be expensive and require work. Except they forgot that this is a game and we aren't here to work.
Thumbs-down... again.
Hooray for maxed out SGs demanding people run in SG mode or be kicked. Hooray for yet more obnoxiously overly expensive fluff that they are afraid that large super-groups might abuse.
Come on, Cryptic! Get your heads out of the sand and actually listen to your majority of customers that would like to use one of the largest features of City of Villains!
Still here, even after all this time!
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But what I don't understand is all the complaining that is happening. Too many people complaining this won't help a small SG...Why does it have to? Individual flats will be coming out at some point in the future...why does a SG base have to be geared to a small casual group?
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They have to help small SGs because that's what they were designed for. The devs have been saying for months that Empowerment Stations were specifically developed to give small SGs something to do with their salvage.
The "complaining" is all based on the feeling that small SGs can't really benefit from these stations with the current buff prices.
Now, to be fair, I haven't tested the exact percentages of damage resistance provided by some of the better buffs, but unless they're upwards of 50%, they're not worth it.
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Just so I am clear...because the idea that was put forward by Positron, got changed on the implimentation level (likely so that it would work in the first place) everyone feels that it isn't worth it to them on a personal level?
I'm sorry...but this game is not SWG, it's not EQ, it's not WoW...if people want to play those games, they should play those games.
I do a lot of work to help the SG I am in grow and prosper, and I personally don't like the idea that people want the game made easier to solo. If you want access to the better functions of a base...Join a larger SG.
I do not comprehend why everyone seems to think that this game should be designed around their own personal situation, as opposed to how the Devs can maximize and improve the game in the way that THEY envision it.
I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
Positron
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Nice! Thanks, Positron!
Hooray!
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I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
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**Hugs Posi**
Your my second favorite!
Member: Mutant Force Five, Chaos Legion & Team Awesome
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I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
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Awesome, Positron. Any word on whether or not Kheldians can use these buffs while in Nova and Dwarf form?
That's kind of a deal breaker for me.
Thank you so very much... 
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I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
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YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
Makes perfect sense 
I just noticed that there's no use for Special salvage! The stuff you get from AV's, SFs, and PVP-zone missions. Already there wasn't much use for that - everyone in my SG has 20 Alien Tech is seems. It would be REALLY nice if we could burn that stuff for buffs at a rate of 1 buff per Salvage piece. After all, a 60- or 90-minute timed mission should be easily worth a 15 minute buff as a reward, right?
In fact... if people could burn that little-used Special Salvage for buffs, it may be easier to ask them to pass their crafted components back up to the architects for building base items. Or even trade them to the architects.
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I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
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That makes a lot more sense to the costs that were being shown. So inferring from what you've said, it sounds as though they will now cost around 2-10ish of the refined (or Tier 2 as you're calling it) salvage? Better, I'll have to see what it's like in practice before I make any more judgements on it. Thanks for letting us know what was up.
Okay, after testing the Empowerment station even more... here's my second set of thoughts.
1. I didn't even touch the buffs. Not even after we had transfered our characters with the most salvage over as many as seven times. Instead, I wrote down the types and numbers of combos needed to make things with the forges and used the empowerment station to make the combos. I would say a reason to do this is so that we can hold off on the whole functional base bit and save money, but with the other storage bins needing Control this is not the case. What the Empowerment station did give was convenience, as I could flip tabs between Basic - Expert level combos and see what I could make all in one place.
2. I used the tech Empowerment station to enable storage. After we'd copied enough characters with salvage over to be able to use some arcane to make things, we had such an excess of tech salvage it wouldn't fit in 2 bins. So we bought the tech station to combine as much as possible... but this leads to one of my new complaints/suggestions.
The Empowerment stations would be much more useful to small supergroups that are trying to reach a point where they can use actual full bases if they got rid of salvage we cannot already combine. Even just randomly combining tech salvage, we overflowed a storage bin with types of salvage that were unusable. Our magic storage overflowed with things we couldn't use (yet?) while we scrounged for common items like Amulets and Potions. We ended up with more than 50 each of Spells of Power and Alien Tech, for instance. What can our SG do with things like this when we only want/need Basic combinations and a few odd Advanced? Nothing that I could find, and so they take up a good third of our storage bins for no reason at all.
My suggestions:
a) just have it take the more useless items (by small SG standards rather than how common it is) instead of things that will combine for basic and advanced uses. This will make the need for storage less prohibitive and let us work toward the goal of an active base rather than give up that dream altogether.
b) let us make combinations from our choice of items, even if we can only use them with the empowerment station itself. Different SGs might find different items useful depending on what they want to build beyond the empowerment station. This would ensure usefulness for everyone.
c) let us feed it raw salvage. It could work like vending machines, where we fed it our spare "change" and it told us what we could have... and if we didn't have enough for what we wanted then we could have our change returned. Or we could leave it with our change and an SGmate could later cash in, without the need for bogging down storage that is likely full of useful items.
d) lower the requirements for the buffs (though we would still likely not use them). I heard you did lower them some, but as an SG working toward a base, using that particular salvage for buffs is counterproductive to our growth.
e) have the stations give us other things.
- My SG would love if the station would give us tokens we could trade to the Tree of Life or the Contemplation Charts for Insps instead of Influence. Hopefully for a few Inspirations per salvage, but yeah. Of course, that's for when we can get those things, but we're working toward it.
- Maybe create things that would lower the Control costs for some items - with caveats, obviously - or vouchers for rent. As a small SG that's having trouble deciding whether to go for influence or prestige we've been rather short on both and spending prestige to create things that require influence hurts, as does the constant drain on our prestige for just an entryway... and now the smallest upgrade possible.
- Or, really, since you're looking at the small SGs as non-SGs, you could give us tokens for things that have nothing to do with bases... things like costume voucher tokens, anything that will help a casual player (especially one trading in some of their Infl gain for Prestige) while encouraging them to make some use of the SGs and bases.
f) let us feed it Salvage to convert to Prestige. Best would be if, again, it were the more useless salvage (by small SG standards rather than how common it is). This would decrease our overwhelming need for storage of items we can't use and better enable us to get to a position where we could make those small items we covet - like teleporters and medical items AND afford their upkeep.
g) let the Empowerment stations be placed in any room! Someone else mentioned it, but it bears repeating. Our smaller SGs are working with right around 400k prestige. We can't build a workroom for these things just like we can't get energy and control for the Insp and Enh storage bins. We can have salvage storage... yay, except that's not worth the cost of a one room base.
I'm sure I'll get plenty more ideas as I play, but so far this is what I have. Any of those things would make us a lot happier SG 
<-- chick, not dude
@perfectkismet | Arc ID: 191776 When Worlds Collide
47 50s: 6Bl . 3Br . 7Con . 3 Corr . 4Def . 1Dom . 2HET . 1MM . 1PB . 6Sc . 2St . 8Ta . 4VET
Heh Whoops! ...so the question wasn't "what was Positron smoking"
... I should have asked "what were the Coders smoking"
I hope Dominator "fixes" are just suffering from a similar snafu and we'll get the REAL changes in the next test patch too 
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I've gone and lowered the costs of all the Empowerment buffs. There was a bug where the data was seeing Tier 2 Salvage (created by the Tier 1 salvage you collect) as Tier 1 quantities, i.e. the player would have a lot more of it.
The new Empowerment costs should be much more in line with what you guys were thinking. Sorry.
This will get up to the training room in the next major patch.
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I have to say that I like the new Lead Designer!
I remember previous patches where everything was set in stone once it was up on the test server. Time on test was just, apparently, for fixing bugs. Player feedback did not result in any tweaks or changes to any of the major or even minor features or nerfs.
But here, already, Positron has responded to player concerns and promised significant changes here and over in the storage thread.
Outstanding. Thank you!
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
Has anyone noticed the "invention" tab on the lower tech station? made one of em and it gave me a lvl 10 hammi dam/acc.
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Has anyone noticed the "invention" tab on the lower tech station? made one of em and it gave me a lvl 10 hammi dam/acc.
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yeah, I'm not sure what it's actually supposed to do, but I doubt a 10 HO was the actual design. Maybe we need a user manual for this thing.
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Has anyone noticed the "invention" tab on the lower tech station? made one of em and it gave me a lvl 10 hammi dam/acc.
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yeah, I'm not sure what it's actually supposed to do, but I doubt a 10 HO was the actual design. Maybe we need a user manual for this thing.
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My guess is there is probably a way to make it higher in level. I have been trying to figure it out, but nothing yet. 
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yeah, I'm not sure what it's actually supposed to do, but I doubt a 10 HO was the actual design. Maybe we need a user manual for this thing.
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I don't think this is part of the final design. Looks like a chance for the Devs to test Enhancement crafting with an eye to the upcoming Invention system. This was probably the most obvious place to do it.
I hope that's what it is. Kinda wish a dev would let us know if the level 10 thing is intentional and going to be bumped to 50 when it hits live. If there is some way to "unlock" it to make a higher level enhancement, then I don't want to be told. Would rather figure it out.
But if it's "just level 10 for now", I don't want to keep wasting salvage on test. tired of copying over toons to there.
15 minutes is too low. Particularly for very small SGs that are using this as the only item in their base - they don't have teleporters to help move around.
So what if they were usable for one mission? Well, that may not be codable. You also would be able to go street sweeping or PvPing and be buffed indefinitely.
So I've come up with this idea...
Have these last for a fixed amount of XP gain.
Have it track the XP you would be earning while exemplared (or at 50), if you get the buff and then stop your XP gain. Have PvP Reputation gains count against this limit, too, so you can't go to a PvP zone and be buffed indefinitely.
How much XP? About as much as you get from 1 mission. (because of scaling that's like a whole bubble at low levels, and half or 1/3 a bubble at higher levels.) That should be about 15 minutes - but 15 minutes of USEFULNESS. Travel time wouldn't count. Slower fighters like Controllers or Stalkers could move at their own pace. It's still not a toggle or click power, though, which the Devs have said they don't want from this.
Disclaimer - I have no idea if that's really codable.