Official Thread for Masterminds: Thugs
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:49 in Developers' Corner
The Pistols gunshots from the MM himself sound vastly underpowered and are a bit grating on the nerves, any chance they'll get toned up?
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I think the upgrade power should be another goon walking up behind them, tapping them on the shoulder, belting them across the chin, and replacing them.
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Outstanding 
Yes, please...
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I think the upgrade power should be another goon walking up behind them, tapping them on the shoulder, belting them across the chin, and replacing them.
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Outstanding
Yes, please...
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I think that is the coolest suggestion so far.
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Can we get some photos of the various thugs availible with upgrades applied to them and an actual break down of powers for each type? I searched the fourm first of course but ended up with the phone book.
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Check the MM forum... I posted some pics of 5 of the thugs(only one missing is the bruiser).
Thugs get a single pistol before the first upgrade, 2 after. They get a straight single shot, a sideways "gangsta" style shot, and a dual pistol shot.
The Arsonist starts off with Molotov Cocktails, and get fire breath with the upgrade. He does quite a lot of damage, resists fire, and his attacks all leave a rapid, mid damage(ticks of 2 dmg), DoT.
Enforcers start off with a 2 handed machine gun, and switch to uzzies(sp?) after the upgrade. They do a left handed DoT shot, right handed DoT shot, and a right handed DoT cone(from the looks of it).
I'm only level 15, so some other MM will have to fill you in on the other attacks that you get from the lvl32 upgrade... As well as the attacks the Bruiser gets.
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I think the upgrade power should be another goon walking up behind them, tapping them on the shoulder, belting them across the chin, and replacing them.
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FIGJAM: Smarter than the rest of us.
So far, having too much fun with being a Mafia Maul and ordering Thugs around. I'm a bit concerned about how much enjoyment I get out of seeing and hearing the two pistols come out, load a round and then fire.
One small complaint. I notice the Equip Thugs animation is the same as the mercenary MM equip. I'd much preferred them tossing the thug a big wad of money and they shove it in their pockets, or something like that. Seems to fit the thug personna a bit more and how they are motivated by money. Just a suggestion 
Played to level 6 and I have two complaints.
1. The whistle that summons them is too high pitched. It's bit grating, and could cuse bats to fly into buildings.
2. Skulls can shoot properly. Hellions can shoot properly. The Punk henchmen, can shoot properly, at least so far. Why... WHY... does my mastermind tip the gun over on it's side to shoot left handed??? I realize it's an artwork change and thus will probably never make it into the game, but why was it done wrong to start with???
Aside from these I like the set.
My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.
Yes, it does look silly, but in many thug-genre movies, peopel turn the gun sideways. Why? I dunno... but it fits thematically...
My notes on thugs:
I have a level 17 Thug/Poison MM and have been playing with a friend at level 10 and he was level 15. By level 14 he was level 16 and I was adding more to group. Fighting +4 cons I could not truly defend myself (to much damage when they hit me) but my thugs worked just fine killing and taking aggro from them. I am now 17 and he is 18. But even when we were 5 levels apart and the cons were +7 my thugs could help take aggro and live to tell about it. Not as a main aggro grabber but they help pull cons off me and help in a couple rather nasty 3 group aggro spots. Due to the lack of AoE, Cone, single target and End cost to heal ratio of Poison I am going with dark on live that is what my friend is and I like the way dark works better. Here is what I have noticed in 17 levels
General:
The whistle has to go, its fine for like one pet but not for all. A snap of the fingers or call on the phone would be some good choices.
The magazine for the first upgrade needs to be changed to hand gun magazine or the tossing of a second gun is a great idea too.
As far as the pets changing looks every summoning, dont see that changing much but what I would like to see is the ability to choice from the basic 3 body types for pets, for all MM. Female/normal/huge, that way they could do all female gangs or big bruiser or what ever I think that would be great change. Probably would be a nightmare for devs and undoable but that would truly rock.
When I am in the jail cell in mayhem missions and I summon my pets to attack door to get out it breaks into about a 1/3 of the time thing. 1/3 they wont attack, 1/3 they pull a phase shift and go out of cell and attack door (have had them get stuck when they do it and cant attack door, have to resummon them and start over, and 1/3 they attack the door.
I find they do get stuck easy and run off when I tell them to stay and get in fights and bring me aggro and
haha ya the AI on them needs work out a little.
I have noticed that no matter the mode I am in or how I attack with my pets in what combo what ever, when facing Longbow they will most of the time forgo my pets and just attack me. While this is a great techneque, mms are to weak to be able to take the damage of a full group of longbow by themselves, (meaning without pets) and all you get is debt.
Personal guns:
Agreed the Empty Clips needs to be different. I like the idea of it being 10 shots in the cone with 10 ticks of less damage but same damage over all great idea.
The end use on Empty Clips seems to be a little high for the damage to me.
The gangster like animation of the first power is pretty good. The sound is a little week but that is ok I think its a size thing. My friend has a huge body type and they look like toys in his hands while mine is female and they look like .50 cal Desert Eagles. For him the sound works, for mine it seems way underpowered.
The gangster like animation of the first power is pretty good. And fyi to those that think that the side shot is a less acc way of shooting they are wrong, actually when shooting single handed off hand (your non dom hand) most people find it much more accurate, and there for I think not only goes better with the Gangster look but is more believable.
First tier pet:
Guns disappear when firing after upgrade.
Yes the casings coming out of a revolver do kind of bug me, so I would go with automatic for them.
Second tier pet:
There is a bug in the animation on mine. The animations for the second gun are reversed so I get a flash out of the ejection port and the casings all go flying forward. Cool looking but kind of weird looking too.
The sound of the guns for this guy I really like sounds like silenced sub pistols and I think that would be a cool add silencers onto there guns for one of the upgrades or that.
Thats were I stand so far. Getting ready to get 3rd first tier pet and gang war. So far from my what I have seen from my friends the 3rd one rocks but the gang war is way underpowered in damage and the time they are summoned for how long it takes to recharge is a bit much. And they seem to be very stupid and dont attack that much if anything I would think it would be the oppisate in that you wouldnt have that much control on them they would just wade into anything they came across. Like a control on directing were they go but they attack anything in range. Hope this helps.
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
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ok,
does the gangsta-**sideways**-holding-pistol shooting position bother anyone? (yea I shoot RL 
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yech, 
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Well...i mean the set is labeled...Thugs.
Just saying...
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"homie sight" 4 da win sideways mounted site for your gun
I was expecting family type thugs myself not the backstreet boys... These guys aint even gang bangers there wanna be's..
PS: I luv the sidways shoot, nothing i like more then loading my ab10's with there 32 shots each and unloading em like that into whatever im using as a target. We call that shooting from the hip where im from. lol
I love how everyone is complaining that no serious shooter would ever hold their gun sideways. Guess what, no serious shooter would ever use two guns at the same time either! bah. It seems odd to point that out as illogical but accept the fire breathing, energy spewing, physic robots of doom that abound in CoX.
So far, at my lowly level. Loving the set. Half-tempted to run on live with just all three attacks and gang war, and forgo any pets. Sure, I havent gotten to gang war yet, but might as well grab it if I went that way.
Loving the shooting sideways animation. Who cares how effective it may or may not be in RL. I can tell you this tho...it's fun. And like the gansta said in Mind of Mensia (sp?) it makes me look cool.
Whistle...really needs to go. Not only is it annoying, it's sad. I like the suggested ideas of finger snapping/picking up a cell phone.
And I really love the idea of the upgrades just walking in, decking the old and taking their place. Sure, it doesn't work for my concept, but it would seem to work well for alot of others.
As for the gun sounds...a little more power would be nice.
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I am totally loving this AT and I'm not even a gun-totting fan at all beyond action movies. True, the sounds could get a little umf! but they are not bad. They're just a little on the weak side.
I like the looks of the upgrades from t-shirt to tank top/ tattoo combo. The enforcer jacket is cool too. Kind of freaked me out since it was the same jacket and jacket color that I had outfitted my MM with. Kind of gave me the idea that perhaps if you create a female Thug MM then you might offer female Pets. I know other setslike Merc's, Zombies, and Ninja's don't have that but it would fit this particular AT a little better than the others. An all chick gang... I kind of like that idea.
I particularly like that the Enforcer has the Leadership pool. I was a little disappointed that it did not affect my character, but that is fair.
I noticed that many people have claimed that their Punks could take Aggo from +4 mobs and survive. My experience is a little different. I skipped a lot of the missions in Port Oakes and skipped on ahead to Cap Au Diable because I have done all the missions in Port Oakes like a zillion times already. Instead, I did a lot of street hunting with this AT. It was fun and brought a little more RPing for me to this AT. I don't usually get into that. Anyway, I think I levelled just as quickly street hunting as I would have had I done the P.O missions. Anything +4 whomped me, my punks and my Enforcer.
The thugs seems a little slower following me than the other MM pets. Ninja's and Merc's always seem to move faster. Zombies were the slowest in my opinion. But these guys would be in the Zig in a heartbeat the speed they run now.
I have read a lot of "this is stupid" and other such comments, and I can agree to some extent with some of the criticisms. But the one I disagree with the most is the whistle. I like it. A simple snap of the fingers is too simple. The cell phone idea is a little too much like the Merc's walkie-talkie's. As it is now I don't really care for the 1st half of the upgrading by tossing out a clip. That is all Merc. I'd like to see something more like maybe an altered Hasten affect which changes them maybe following a snap of the fingers. I like the manhole thing, but I really, really liked the previously suggestion of upgrading by having someone bigger and tougher come up and knock out the first Enforcer. Don't get me wrong. I like the manhole ( Ya so rarely get to use that word... manhole ) animation. It's a tad on the slow side. Maybe the exiting animation from a sub or sewer mission animation - having them jump out of instead of into the manhole - would make it a little quicker.
Thanks for no pause after summoning the pets before you can upgrade them. The Necro summoning animations have such a long pause.
I love the enforcer arrival.
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I love how everyone is complaining that no serious shooter would ever hold their gun sideways. Guess what, no serious shooter would ever use two guns at the same time either! bah. It seems odd to point that out as illogical but accept the fire breathing, energy spewing, physic robots of doom that abound in CoX.
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Thank you.
Bugged this in game. Haven't read through this whole thing, so not sure if it's been mentioned.
Thug pets' names aren't hiding based off of the setting to hide pet names. I tried toggling this setting with no effect. (This was on a stalker, not that that should matter much.)
This could be related to the screwiness of that settings area (several of the individual settings change other settings as you click them). Or, it may be a separate issue. Either way, I prefer not seeing them and hope this gets fixed.
Really enjoying this MM class and reading through the suggestions. I just started one recently so I haven't seen what the other minions look like or their entrances. But I do like some of the suggestions for the the thugs themselves.
I wonder how hard it would be to make a location, say one in Sharkhead, here a group of boss contacts could be found that would allow you to take on the particular look you want for your thugs. For instance, the bosses could each have a different look and whichever one you chose would make your thugs dress in that theme. There could be a biker thug theme, street punk, gothic, mob/syndicate, etc. Maybe even allow you to choose whether you want male or female thugs in your "gang". Could even make it a small mission requirement, like the tailor, to gain access to this feature at a particular level. In the early stages everyone would have the same thug types until you gain a better "rep" or skill deserving of the ability to choose what your thugs should dress like. Would really add some flavor to the class. Not to mention the RP aspect, whether you like RP or not, that would open up for each thug MM type.
As far as the animations, like the turned pistol, firing both pistols at the same time, and the whistling summon, not my first choices but I can certainly live with it. Again they could alter some of those animations when completing the afore-mentioned mission. While I would expect a street thug to shoot that way, I would not of a Family type thug, imho.
On a side note, for those of us who have seen Casino, Good Fellas, Donnie Brasco, and a host of other gang movies, it is safe to say they don't speak the Queen's english when conversing. An M rated server where profanity by npc's is expected and the norm for criminals would be great. Doubt we will ever see it but one can dream.
I've got to point out that the sideways "Gangsta" shooting is actually real...
This style of shooting was invented in China, I believe, and is called "Bandit Shooting." It's used to (Inaccurately) clear entire rooms. Of course, I may be spewing BS, but that's the facts I've got.
Your refering to MGS3 of course and Eva's automatic Mauser I think. I think that only applies to automatics to get a sort of fan like spray in a room, thats less applicable for regular pistols.
That said, its still a game and still fits the CoX world and lets drop the topic!
Nope, not from MGS3. I forgot where I learned that, but yeah, let's drop it. Game's a game.
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Nope, not from MGS3. I forgot where I learned that, but yeah, let's drop it. Game's a game.
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For off hand shooting it makes sense because it gets most people's dominant eye (right) closer to the irons without scooting your head over your left arm.
Try it out, get your pistol, toy if you've not got any, and hold it off hand straight up like normal. Now, sight on something. Tough huh? Then drop it sideways ala gangsta. It's easier to put in line. Now if you were to try the unadvisable and use two pistols it would make some sense to drop the off hand (usually left) 90 degrees while keeping your primary hand upright. (Kind of like fending off a vampire with a makeshift cross...) This makes it much easier to get both pistols on target.
Thing is of course, you still aren't going to hit a [censored] thing with the off hand pistol anyway... but we're talking about pistols here. You're not going to hit much no matter what, so why split hairs?
It's thematic, semi-plausible and it looks sweet. Folks should let it go.
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First tier pet:
Guns disappear when firing after upgrade.
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This has to be a bug that only a few people have. I haven't noticed my Thugs doing this.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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First tier pet:
Guns disappear when firing after upgrade.
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This has to be a bug that only a few people have. I haven't noticed my Thugs doing this.
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Actually no. I played with other MM's and asked them to watch for it. It appears to happen while solo and not when teamd. look at your punks from all angles as they are fighting to see this occur.
My update for this weekend so far is that they gun animations tends to dissapear if one of two things happen. (1) The target dies mid shot (2) they lose agro of the target mid shot. My MM also had the guns disappear mid shot because the target died before the gun went off.
(While Defensive) The thugs also lose agro easily. If the foe starts to miss you or them they just stop and stand there until someone gets hit.
The MM pet description says that they "will not run out of melee range to use range attacks". Well they forgot to read the memo, cause they've been doing that all weekend.
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Can we get some photos of the various thugs availible with upgrades applied to them and an actual break down of powers for each type? I searched the fourm first of course but ended up with the phone book.