Official Thread for Masterminds: Thugs
By
008Zulu,
Posted on: 2006-05-01 11:49 in Developers' Corner
[ QUOTE ]
Just my thought: Instead of tossing your thugs a clip of ammo, how about tossing them a can of spraypaint? I think it fits pretty well with the "gangster" feel of the set.
AnubisXy
[/ QUOTE ]
How about if the mm pulled a pistol out of the back of her belt and tossed that to them? Since.. they end up with a second pistol from the equip, it seems to make sense that she could give it to them.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how tossing them Spraypaint could possibly make them stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see how tossing them an ammo clip that doesn't fit in their gun could make them stronger either...
[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it was a cellphone... can you hear me now?
So how does Gang War pan out in a fight? Helpful or a waste of a power choice?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just my thought: Instead of tossing your thugs a clip of ammo, how about tossing them a can of spraypaint? I think it fits pretty well with the "gangster" feel of the set.
AnubisXy
[/ QUOTE ]
How about if the mm pulled a pistol out of the back of her belt and tossed that to them? Since.. they end up with a second pistol from the equip, it seems to make sense that she could give it to them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's a thought. Think Ninjas a sec. Their buff is a "symbol" on the ground with an awesome animation (I know it has a name but it escapes me ATM). How about for thugs, the MM ***** the guns and the punks follow suit (they already have both guns from the get go, but only fire one) or perhaps a bag that gives them an additional gun and clothes for the upgrade costume change
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
OK some animation and AI bugs:<ul type="square"> *Even on bodyguard, they do not attack if hit unless foe is within range.
* On Aggresive, they attack resourcefully and don't waddle about (GREAT 
) but on Def, they only attack IF the foe gets within range, and if the foe misses they just stand there (although they are already locked onto the target) given enough foe misses however they just "lose sight" of the foe.
* If you look at the pets from behind, the guns disappear just as they shoot if not before.
* The hench do not sustain the gun animation (think of you with your pistols, you maintain the pistol graphic in hand as you continue shooting until you switch powers) they reload the "taking out guns" animation each time they shoot.
* From a profile view, they hold guns upto the point of the recoil and the uns disappear (similar to the one on the list, but on proflie the gun graphic lasts a tangent longer)[/list]
Also, being a necro on my main, I am accustomed to my pets "calling out" their stance. I.E. I command to follow pass they say "Following...passive" or attack target, they say "attacking" Granted their insta-chat bubbles are appropriate and sometimes funny, I want to make sure they received the proper command. Can this be added? like them saying "Wolf Spider is about to be maggot food" or something that tells me that an attack command was issued.
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
[ QUOTE ]
So how does Gang War pan out in a fight? Helpful or a waste of a power choice?
[/ QUOTE ]
It is probably on the the funniest thing s you will ever see.
While I do not believe in PvE they would be a great choice, there is the fact that they are MORE pets, and thats always neat, but they are great in PvP.
I just got my thug to 40, and shes having some issues, but im looking past them.
However, in RV, if a hero jumps you, just unleash gang war and run like hells end, that is what I find the power good for.
Dang! How the heck did you make it to 40 in 3 days?? 
Regardless, anyway you could throw up some gangwar screens? Or let us know about the lvl 32 upgrade? 
40!! 
The people at Red Bull must make a killing around your hood. You could not have slept in 3 days. I7 has us all excited but man at this rate you'll hit 50 by sunday!
How on Recluse's metallic earth did you level so quickly?
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
[ QUOTE ]
I just got my thug to 40, and shes having some issues, but im looking past them.
However, in RV, if a hero jumps you, just unleash gang war and run like hells end, that is what I find the power good for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow your Thug is 40 already? I have some questions for you then.
How is the Bruiser?
Does he have ranged attacks, or only melee?
Does he prefer melee range fighting?
What defense toggles does he use?
Does he have status protection?
What attackes does he cycle?
What attacks does he cycle with both upgrades?
Does he have any AE kockback abilities (I hope not)?
How hard is it to keep his rage up?
What new attacks do enforcers/punks get with the second upgrade?
Can you post some screenshots of your Bruiser?
also, some stats on gang wars would be nice 
IE: approx damage per pet, recharge, duration, what you can slot it with...infact, approx damage per pet would be usefull for punks/enforcers/bruisers too
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just my thought: Instead of tossing your thugs a clip of ammo, how about tossing them a can of spraypaint? I think it fits pretty well with the "gangster" feel of the set.
AnubisXy
[/ QUOTE ]
How about if the mm pulled a pistol out of the back of her belt and tossed that to them? Since.. they end up with a second pistol from the equip, it seems to make sense that she could give it to them.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like that idea a lot better than a tattoo artist, or a can of spraypaint. How the heck would paint make you stronger? Mace maybe, not paint.
If not a gun, then what about you just shake your fist at them and they stand more erect. Put the fear of...well, you into them. Sort of a 'shape up or ship out' kind of thing.
[ QUOTE ]
If not a gun, then what about you just shake your fist at them and they stand more erect. Put the fear of...well, you into them. Sort of a 'shape up or ship out' kind of thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA! erect. 
Second gun throwing idea is nice /sign
50Soulsunder: DM/Regen Scrapper
50Limitshift: EM/WP Brute
Victoria Nox: Dark/Dark Dominator
And about 5 others that change constantly...
I would just like a small backpack toss. Of course then people will complain about "where does the back pack go?"
I havent dug though all of this forum yet but I wanted to sound out on a issue im having.
I just got Gang War, and Im a little bit disappointed with it.
1) They are dumber then rocks. They wont attack unless they are attacked. Even if I send them on a MOB, the mob will come after me and ignore them.
2) If you spawn them on grey mobs, same effect. They will just stand around.
3) The 90-120 second duration seems a little short for a 10 min recharge timer.
I can kinda understand that this is more of a mass confusion power to confuse people in PVP, but to be honest, if they wont attack anything unless they are attacked 1st, it just makes them worthless.
Well come to think of it, a paitspray can is great if their upgrade power would cause them use it as a flamethrower (spraycan + lighter *drools over the posibilities*) or blinding device (spray their face and they're incapacitated for a few seconds with -acc) will also make the TA set worth while with Oil Slick arrow
Kenja's Logitec G15 Masters Guide
Kenja's Concise Commands and Emotes Guide (I10)
Kenja's Links Guide for Badge Collectors
Visit SalsaVille!
Doubt its a bug but my gang war never seems to attack the target i summon them from which is normaly boss's. I have to run off with them and bring them back most the time.. kinda sux but they do look cool... lol
that definetely sounds like a bug
they should act like dominator pets (aggressive/follow), and if you target an enemy then summon them, they should start on aggressive/attack my target, then switch to agg/follow after that target is dead
[ QUOTE ]
Yes anything to make the thugs look more like...well....thugs. Sorry but I don't see how I am going to strike fear in the hearts of heroes and respect in the eyes of Lord Recluse when I show up with my guns that quack, a secondary that was chosen at whim, and N'Sync as my minions.
[/ QUOTE ]
This has to be the single best quote ever.
Now, onto some Thug MM reports:
- Tier 1 thugs, dumber than bricks, and I don't mean the CoH zone.
- Tier 1 thugs don't seem to have a "stand still" animation, as they constantly run around everywhere like they have a flaming arrow stuck in their rear.
- Tier 1 thugs seem to have pathing and obstacle collision issues. They constantly get stuck on any obstacle and infinitely repeat the same movements to unsuccessfully get around the obstacle. Issuing them new commands works 1/2 the time to unlock them from this.
- Tier 1 thugs are either out of shape or have sharp objects in their shoes, as they run laughably slow. I figured since they were thugs they'd be used to having to run fast to make the getaway, but this doesn't seem to be the case. If I Sprint, I can run laps around them getting to a mission door.
- Tier 1 thug "calling" animation/sound of whistling is, um, interesting. However, it feels more like I'm trying to call in my pet chihuahua or schnauzer. Still pets, yes, but just not the same. Can I 'phone-a-thug?'
- Pistol whip for brawl is stylish. Kudos.
- Pistols, your first ranged power, IMHO sounds nice. Kudos.
- Tier 1 thugs alternate between ranged and melee attacks when in melee range. Kudos.
All in all, extremely nice!
Main Character: Ice/Storm/Ice Controller (Justice, 1340 badges)
I'm noticing in other threads that the SFX for Fulcrum Shift, visual FX for Force Fields, and at least one costume option appear to have come down the pipe corrupt. I'm hoping that's the real reason the pistol sound effects are so weak. The gunshot just doesn't sound right for any sort of pistol, much less those big giant ones.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
All right. My impressions.
1. I heartily disagree, re the "no nappy hairstyles" on the tier one thugs. And moderately disagree on the "make them look the same from one summon to the next." My thuglord uses up her low level gang members like candy. If they survive, they might get somewhere. I solved the naming issue by giving them nicknames like "Snake" and "Face," and decided said thuglord treats those like positions. "Hey Manny -- you're Face on this one."
2. Poison works perfectly for my thuglord. She's focusing on guns and pools (Leadership, added into the Leadership buffs, makes me a happy player). It makes sense she's carrying around some scored meth to juice her guys with when they seem almost out of it. I haven't used the other powers in the secondary, but like I said -- focusing on pistols, thugs and Leadership in my conception. Makes for a perfect natural Thug Mastermind, in my opinion.
3. There's major AI issues to be resolved, as others have said. The thugs don't follow well. They get stuck, often. Some other pets have travel powers. They don't. That's bad.
4. I'm perfectly happy with the ranged preference on thugs. These aren't trained soldiers or even full on gang members like the Skulls. Why should they "brawl with the best of them." Giving them powerful handguns makes them able to stand toe to toe with even superheroes -- but that's essentially all that lets them do it. Besides, it's pretty good range on these pistols. I've found that if I target one of the enemy mobs, do a "attack my target," follow my men to the limit of their range, click on one thug to 'support' him, and then help them gun down the mobs as they come at us, we're able to wipe out frightening numbers of minions before they can reach us. That's very thuggish, to me.
5. I agree in regards to the upgrade animation. Lose the clip. Let our MMs toss them their second gun. I'm okay with the beam-in tattooed/tank top, though.
6. I also agree that the thugs should be shooting automatics, not revolvers. Semiautos rule the streets.
7. I disagree, however, with the 'dropping the gangsta-side shooting' animations. If you want to play a Mastermind with a deep level of respect and even understanding for proper firearms handling (and yes, proper aim), there's the Mercenaries door right over there. This is street -- and more to the point, this is comic book/John Woo street. Style over substance makes the most sense, and as [censored] as the sideways shot is in real life, it's seen as pure style over substance in popular culture.
8. Would it kill you to throw in some randomized women as well as men? I mean, is there some guild rule among thugs that they all have to be guys?
9. Empty Clips has moved completely out of my attack sequence until I get stamina and sufficiently End Reduce it down. I understand there needs to be a tradeoff. I say reduce the damage per shot or move it higher in the power tier -- right now, it's essentially a worthless power. I do significantly better damage over time by sticking to the first two pistol powers and not running out of End.
10. Emphatically agree that pistol goodness needs to move over to Blasters and Corruptors at the least. I'm less sanguine about Pistol Scrappers, because I've spent too much time keeping my enemies far out of melee range with them.
Thank you, and enjoy the shrimp platter.
[ QUOTE ]
or be like charles bronson
[/ QUOTE ]
What they gave Thug MM's rope too?
[url="http://www.creyindustries.com/viewhero.php?id=4718"]Lady Shadow[/url]
Shots that miss a thug because of the Enforcer(s) Maneuvers aura aren't getting the "Avoided" or "Evaded" or whatever text it's supposed to be over their heads.
[ QUOTE ]
All right. My impressions.
1. I heartily disagree, re the "no nappy hairstyles" on the tier one thugs. And moderately disagree on the "make them look the same from one summon to the next." My thuglord uses up her low level gang members like candy. If they survive, they might get somewhere. I solved the naming issue by giving them nicknames like "Snake" and "Face," and decided said thuglord treats those like positions. "Hey Manny -- you're Face on this one."
They are like candy, get them for a dime a dozen from a bone daddy called Cletus.....
4. I'm perfectly happy with the ranged preference on thugs. These aren't trained soldiers or even full on gang members like the Skulls. Why should they "brawl with the best of them." Giving them powerful handguns makes them able to stand toe to toe with even superheroes -- but that's essentially all that lets them do it. Besides, it's pretty good range on these pistols. I've found that if I target one of the enemy mobs, do a "attack my target," follow my men to the limit of their range, click on one thug to 'support' him, and then help them gun down the mobs as they come at us, we're able to wipe out frightening numbers of minions before they can reach us. That's very thuggish, to me.
This is true, and if slotted properly you could snipe pretty effictively with em...
5. I agree in regards to the upgrade animation. Lose the clip. Let our MMs toss them their second gun. I'm okay with the beam-in tattooed/tank top, though.
Amen!
6. I also agree that the thugs should be shooting automatics, not revolvers. Semiautos rule the streets.
Amen again, when was the llast time you saw an angry mob trying to reload a 6 shooter? Im sorry but these guys are NOT Dirty Harry
8. Would it kill you to throw in some randomized women as well as men? I mean, is there some guild rule among thugs that they all have to be guys?
This could be interesting....bunch of angry little j-Lo gangster mammas running around smack talking heroes....could be interesting
9. Empty Clips has moved completely out of my attack sequence until I get stamina and sufficiently End Reduce it down. I understand there needs to be a tradeoff. I say reduce the damage per shot or move it higher in the power tier -- right now, it's essentially a worthless power. I do significantly better damage over time by sticking to the first two pistol powers and not running out of End.
I agree here, i think there needs to be some sort of adjustment here, either lower the end cost or drastically up the damage. It does not make alot of sense that the dual wield power does more damage than empty clips, and the end cost is a real defeater when in a pitched battle..
10. Emphatically agree that pistol goodness needs to move over to Blasters and Corruptors at the least. I'm less sanguine about Pistol Scrappers, because I've spent too much time keeping my enemies far out of melee range with them.
Could not agree more here, I have been hoping for a pistol blaster/corruptor since coh began all those sleepless nights and blurry eyed days ago. Also the fact is that there is real room for some crazy cool powers there if you could go slightly Equilibrium with the whole set.....mmmmm Gun Kata....
Thank you, and enjoy the shrimp platter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yay! Shrimp.......mmmmmmfffff
[ QUOTE ]
8. Would it kill you to throw in some randomized women as well as men? I mean, is there some guild rule among thugs that they all have to be guys?
[/ QUOTE ]
Feh. I think they should do this with everyone, or spread around some options of choosing male/female characters. Can you imagine a wraithly, beautiful, furious female Liche? Or a tough, tom-boy Commando? Or a hot girl-ninja?
I'd just like to see some ladies among MM pets REGARDLESS.
[ QUOTE ]
3. When I think empty clips....i want to empty the clips. A 3 shot burst from each gun hardly qualifies. Let's really empty the clips, if that means having less damage per shot and a higher shot count so be it. Im not expecting full auto a la AR blasters but lets count the shells here
[/ QUOTE ]
Since cone attacks have a ten target cap, I'd say ten would be a good convenient number of bullets to fire.
[ QUOTE ]
The lack of a secondary powerset that really corresponds to the Thug MM. None of the existing ones really suits the Thug powerset, which, let's face it, lends itself to a natural origin.
[/ QUOTE ]
Some secondary powers come close. Force fields are very near-future technology-- at least, force fields that guard against "explode-on-impact" types of weapons, like missiles and rocket propelled grenades. Web grenades, caltrops, and corrosive chemicals and poisons are modern or ancient technology. Some of Dark Miasma could be roleplayed as charismatic manipulation.
The nice thing about the City of Heroes setting is that naturals can have fantasy gadgets and relics without really surrendering their "I'm not super"-ness. If most of your powers are natural, and just a couple come from fantasy tech or magic, that's still natural as far as this world's concerned. Naturals in an unnatural world can't be expected to be exactly the same as anyone in our world.