[ QUOTE ]
::sigh::
Go buy CoV for $30 at a store. "UPGRADE" your account and you get a free month.
Net cost: $15
That's $15 for four extra slots per server, a whole game's worth of new content, access to all of the SG Base features, and (probably in Issue 7) hero-access to the tons of new CoV costume options.
Seems like a pretty good deal to me...but that's just me. Obviously some don't agree.
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I'm one of them. Having played the CoV beta and received extensive further information from people who played it, I've discovered that I have pretty much no desire whatsoever to play on the CoV side. I'm also not hurting for slots (it's going to take me easily another couple years to finish up the characters I have now). Likewise, since all of my characters already have a look designed, new costume options are pretty irrelevant to me.
So that's $15 for being able to meet with my supergroup.
That comes off pretty much as "Heh, heh, nice supergroup you've got there. Be a real shame if somethin' were ta break you up. Like some of you not bein' able to get together anymore. But if you hand me just fifteen dollars, I can protect you from that fate."
Thanks, but I get a little stubborn around extortion attempts. If the devs were to change their minds (about this and a couple other things), I'd be more likely, not less, to buy CoV, just as a measure of general support. I've been here since the CoH beta, after all.
In any case, since neither you nor I get to make that decision, none of this answers the question of whether or not hero players will be able to get into hero bases. I'd like to hear back from someone official on whether that's planned for the next release or two.
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These items are geared towards small SG's that will quite likely never be able to pay for the first plot upgrade period.
So the idea that they'll require special rooms, that require a plot upgrade is quite far fetched. Until something like that is even so much as hinted at (which it hasn't been yet.) there's no reason to assume such a thing.
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Actually, in beta, there was a specific class of room (iirc, with the same footprint progression as most other functionality rooms) called Storage that was removed prior to release.
Secondly, all of the existing rooms have a "x number of functional items" restriction in them. This seems unlikely to be altered.
Those two facts indicate that the likelihood that storage items at least, if not necessarily empowerment stations, will require their own rooms, and potentially force plot upgrades for small SGs.
@Mindshadow
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I didn't see anything about an influence bank. 
Did I miss it? Will I still need to have another player character to transfer funds to my lowbies?
EDIT: Beyond that.... VERY NICE STUFF, Devs
[/ QUOTE ]
You won't. The devs don't want you twinking your lowbies out with influence like that.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't see anything about an influence bank.
Did I miss it? Will I still need to have another player character to transfer funds to my lowbies?
EDIT: Beyond that.... VERY NICE STUFF, Devs
[/ QUOTE ]
You won't. The devs don't want you twinking your lowbies out with influence like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah! They want us twinking our alts by buying their SOs for them and putting them in a box in your base. 
Which is pretty much the same thing 
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
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Villains
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What is this feeling I'm having... It couldn't be... Anticipation for an issue release.. Yes I think it is.. Wow. I looking forward to everything you guys are bringing out. If I7 is gonna be as much fun as I think it is and you keep it up and we doom sayers might have to change our tone.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world
The kind that makes things happen
The kind that watch things happen
And then there are those of us who keep asking "WTH just happened!"
[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, all of the existing rooms have a "x number of functional items" restriction in them.
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X number of items suited to that room. These are new items however and as such can be set up not to count against these limits.
[ QUOTE ]
Those two facts indicate...
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What was done in beta was geared towards mid to large sized SG's. These items are geared towards smaller SG's, so how things worked in beta doesn't reall mean much.
Mid sized SG's on the lower end, ones that have filled up a 8x8 plot may have trouble fitting everything new into their base, without changing things. But considering what you can fit into a 8x8 plot, there should be no need to upgrade.
You may need to change your base layout some, but there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
[ QUOTE ]
Which is pretty much the same thing
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Not really. I could dump 5 million inf into the base vault, and take it out with an alt. But to put a full set of SO's in the enh storage vault would require serveral trips, sence you can only cary 10 at a time.
That's certainly a valid viewpoint, Resonance, and you're welcome to it.
However, given the way expansion packs work in pretty much every other MMO, and given what we -- as CoH customers -- have already gotten without paying one red cent, I don't think the $15 is unreasonable by any reckoning.
Even if you look at that $15 as just a means to meet with your Supergroup in the base, that's not without precedent. In other games, if you don't buy an expansion, you might not, for instance, have access to entire zones, equipment, even buildings. How is what you describe -- being cut off from joining your SG-mates in the base -- really any different from being cut off from joining your SG-mates who are all off in another zone which is inaccessible to you?
I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the decision to restrict bases to CoV owners. I'm not, really. But considering all of the work they've already done on the original game, and considering that they ARE a for-profit business, it shouldn't shock anyone that they're looking for incentives for people to buy their new product.
The CoV side leaves me a bit cold, too, to be honest. It's actually a bit ironic when you think about it; bases require so much participation on the part of SG members that -- particularly if you play in a small group -- splitting your time between the villain and hero side is a really hard pill to swallow. So in a sense, by making bases such an integral part of CoV, by requiring CoV to get bases, the devs are also deterring people from wanting to play on the villain side. 
Anyway, long ramble. The point is, it's pretty cheap to buy CoV, all things considered. If you object on principle, that is of course your prerogative. I would imagine you haven't played other MMOs to any great extent, though. Everything is relative, after all.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Noooo, surely not....wait...yes...perhaps it's...yes...me too, I seem to be feeling a tingle or two
[ QUOTE ]
What was done in beta was geared towards mid to large sized SG's. These items are geared towards smaller SG's, so how things worked in beta doesn't reall mean much.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm going to have to invoke "show me the money" on this one. We only have information on how things work now, and information from beta, to compare with a general statement of intent.
Requiring multiple new room types and a plot upgrade is a legitimate, if as yet potential, concern.
Given that the entire gist of this discussion is "yes, you SAY they're geared towards small SGs, but will small SGs ACTUALLY BE ABLE to afford them", it's quite reasonable to point that concern out.
[ QUOTE ]
Mid sized SG's on the lower end, ones that have filled up a 8x8 plot may have trouble fitting everything new into their base, without changing things. But considering what you can fit into a 8x8 plot, there should be no need to upgrade.
You may need to change your base layout some, but there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
[/ QUOTE ]
It depends a great deal on the specific implementation. If you've designed conservatively, you'll probably be okay. But "shouldn't" and "won't" are miles apart.
@Mindshadow
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I would love it if there were an option to create a floor [acessed by elevator] in which each SG member had their own room.
[/ QUOTE ]
I opened up a 9x9 recr room and used raised/lowered floor/ceilings, and steps, blue hanging files to create a little apartment complex... sure it's not totally enclosed, but it's enough to pretend. I've been told it's pretty impressive.... 9 separate "personal quarters" 4 of them for 2 or 3 people each, a kitchen, and a living room.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
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Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would love it if there were an option to create a floor [acessed by elevator] in which each SG member had their own room.
[/ QUOTE ]
I opened up a 9x9 recr room and used raised/lowered floor/ceilings, and steps, blue hanging files to create a little apartment complex... sure it's not totally enclosed, but it's enough to pretend. I've been told it's pretty impressive.... 9 separate "personal quarters" 4 of them for 2 or 3 people each, a kitchen, and a living room.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done this for a few members of my small team. I am hoping to upgrade to the 8x12 plot (which is ridiculously priced) and add another teleporter room and a permanent workroom that will have more "apartments" in them. Does it add anything practical to the game? No. It does give everyone a chance to design a bit and it adds to game realism (IMHO).
Now all I need is another 2.2 million prestige or so....
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
That comes off pretty much as "Heh, heh, nice supergroup you've got there. Be a real shame if somethin' were ta break you up. Like some of you not bein' able to get together anymore. But if you hand me just fifteen dollars, I can protect you from that fate."
.
Thanks, but I get a little stubborn around extortion attempts...
[/ QUOTE ]
Extortion? To say that's a huge stretch would be an understatement. You haven't in any way been "prevented" from being "able to get together anymore". In fact, you have the same amount of content that you paid for and subscribed to almost two years ago, plus about ten new zones and a number of new features that you didn't pay any extra for.
If with the release of Issue 6/CoV you suddenly couldn't participate in Super Group chat, or for example, enter PI unless you bought CoV, then you might have a point. That would, in fact, be a bait and switch tactic and possibly could even be pushed over into the "extortion" category. But the fact remains that you still have access to everything that existed prior to Issue 6, plus the three new zones that came with Issue 6.
They released a new product. It included some new featues for CoH. If you want those new features then you have to pay for them. Future issues will include more feature you don't have to pay extra for, and future expansions will contain more featues that you DO have to pay extra for. That's the way it works. They aren't "extorting" money from you. They made a product. If you don't want what that product contains, then keep on playing the product you paid for. You have no right to anything else, and neither do they owe you anything else. And they aren't doing some underhanded thing by not "giving" you whichever of the new features you happen to be interested in, without you having to pay extra for them.
[ QUOTE ]
it's quite reasonable to point that concern out.
[/ QUOTE ]
I won't say it's not a reasonable concern. This should be IMO setup so it requires very little other then ploping the new items into any room, that you got space in.
But at the same time, there's been nothing hinted at so far that says these items will require their own rooms... Doing so would be IMO contrary to the stated goal, of giving something to help small SG's.
However if that did hold true... I'd jump right in with the "This needs to be changed" crowd.
Based on the screenshots, the empowerment stations and vaults don't look to have a huge footprint. The smaller ones, with the 2 "arms" on them, look like you could fit 2 or even 4 on a single tile.
The larger 4 armed device, which I'm assuming is 'expert' level station would fit on a single tile.
So unless there's serveral versions they don't show, you should be able to fit at least both stations in a single 2x2 room with some space left over. Perhaps enough for a vault.
Now I'll admit the above is all speculation on my part. However it has been said that these items won't require any power or control. So for that side of things at least, you won't need to upgrade those systems.
If you go with the 2x2 room grid, you can fit 9 rooms on a 8x8 map. A teleport room, infirmary, 2 crafting rooms, entery way, power and controll rooms, take up 7 of that 9... Leaving you 2 2x2 rooms for the new stuff, if they require special rooms.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Costs for a 10-slot inspiration bin? 1million!
Cost for a 10-slot enhancement container? 500K!
I'm just afraid to even ponder how much these things will cost.....Everything even remotely nice is priced so that small groups can't get them. I'll wait till it hits test to see if my SG has a chance at ever owning one.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you all realize, the prices Lektrik wrote are completely made up.
Everything in this issue will be "reasonably priced". It doesn't make sense for us to set out to help small supergroups and then charge large supergroup Prestige for the items.
[/ QUOTE ]
is this the same "reasonable prioces " like the 3 million it takes to change an outfit?
PFFT!
[ QUOTE ]
This should be IMO setup so it requires very little other then ploping the new items into any room, that you got space in.
[/ QUOTE ]
If they don't require power or control, then hopefully the empowerment stations at least could be dropped in the workrooms, or ideally right in the entry room so you waste as little as possible of what will almost certainly be a restrictively timed buff.
I suspect that the storage items requiring their own room is close to certain, though.
@Mindshadow
[ QUOTE ]
is this the same "reasonable prioces " like the 3 million it takes to change an outfit?
PFFT!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's Influence, dear.
And if you can't afford it, you shouldn't be seen in it.
[ QUOTE ]
so you waste as little as possible of what will almost certainly be a restrictively timed buff.
[/ QUOTE ]
That remains to be seen. The talk I've heard about this stuff before has been along the lines of temp powers, not limited timed buffs.
Holy [censored].
That's AWESOME.
[ QUOTE ]
That remains to be seen. The talk I've heard about this stuff before has been along the lines of temp powers, not limited timed buffs.
[/ QUOTE ]
The two statements aren't necessarily exclusive. We can look at the other two sources of temporary powers for insight. Siren's Call, for example, has some nice self buffs, but they're timed from when you acquire them.
Another possibility of course would be the buff temps that you could buy in Pocket D during the latest Event (which, if you think about it, would have been an ideal time to datamine something along the lines of what the empowerment stations provide).
If the empowerment stations provide temp buffs or other effects that have a set number of charges or set "in use" duration, that's cool. If they're timed from the point at which you build them, that's a lot more annoying.
@Mindshadow
Any chance I7 has a reduction of the bi-weekly "tax" that you nail us with? That would help tremendously.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
[ QUOTE ]
If they're timed from the point at which you build them, that's a lot more annoying.
[/ QUOTE ]
Unless the timer was along the lines of hours... I'd say they'd be annoying to the point of being semi to mostly useless.
[ QUOTE ]
Mid sized SG's on the lower end, ones that have filled up a 8x8 plot may have trouble fitting everything new into their base, without changing things. But considering what you can fit into a 8x8 plot, there should be no need to upgrade.
You may need to change your base layout some, but there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
[/ QUOTE ]I disagree. We require 4 teleporters to access 7 zones, 1 room each for medical equipment, power, control, and, if you stay in theme, 3 workbenches. Unless you subscribe to the mini/maxer's belief that simly buy the workbench you need then sell it again you need 2x2x2 or 3x4 (same for telepads). Our SG fits in the lower end of the mid size SGs and we do NOT want to buy/sell/buy/sell/buy/sell to make best use of our space (not very JLA like is it?). It is highly LIKELY that these new items will require new rooms. If that is the case, they should lower the cost of the 8x12 plot to something reasonable. Storage will likely require a room (as pictures indicate). Same with tempt powers (as pictures indicate). There is NO reason to assume it would be otherwise as every other item fits into its own room.
As an aside, you might note that they used specific language that indicated temp powers would ONLY be for in base PVP encounters. Once again, something for a very small subset of players that we then wouldn't need. Storage yes, temp powers for in base PVP encounters...never.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't see anything about an influence bank.
Did I miss it? Will I still need to have another player character to transfer funds to my lowbies?
EDIT: Beyond that.... VERY NICE STUFF, Devs
[/ QUOTE ]
You won't. The devs don't want you twinking your lowbies out with influence like that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then they should remove INF trading from the game. Either get rid of it or quit wasting my time about it.
Be well, people of CoH.
[ QUOTE ]
Nope, we are have a fully functional PvE base with two 3x4 rooms (workshop and tp). In a perfect world, they'd let me add these new toys to the HUGE room I already have.
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Oh. Well, that'll teach you to stray from the power build. The "2x2 maze" left a slot free specifically for future room options.
Since the first plot upgrade is stupidly expensive, you've kind of designed yourself into a corner.
@Mindshadow