[ QUOTE ]
Storage will likely require a room (as pictures indicate). Same with tempt powers (as pictures indicate).
[/ QUOTE ]
Those screen shots were taken to show off the new items, trying to use them as proof that these items will require new rooms is a major strech.
[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, you might note that they used specific language that indicated temp powers would ONLY be for in base PVP encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering that these items were stated as being geared to small SG's, small enough to not to be able to afford the power and control needed to run crafting rooms, let alone a raid capable base...
Assuming that they are geared to PvP is silly at best.
Edit: Re-reading the artical... There was nothing in there at all that said the temp powers would be used only for base PvP encounters.
[ QUOTE ]
Any chance I7 has a reduction of the bi-weekly "tax" that you nail us with? That would help tremendously.
[/ QUOTE ]pay it every 4 weeks, not when the announcement comes up and you get your extension. 
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that they are geared to PvP is silly at best.
Edit: Re-reading the artical... There was nothing in there at all that said the temp powers would be used only for base PvP encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]Read again...
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair? Now you can prepare for a fight with Empowerment Stations."
[ QUOTE ]
Read again...
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair?"
[/ QUOTE ]
This is why they never tell us anything.
Look, you have to be IN your base to USE the crafting tables that are located IN your base.
It doesn't necessarily mean that's where the battle is going to take place.
For the "small SG buffs" to be PvP only would go beyond bad design and enter the realm of sublime anti-logic.
@Mindshadow
[ QUOTE ]
Read again...
[/ QUOTE ]
I did, and nothing in there states the buffs are for PvP. "Prep for battle in your deadly lair" says nothing about PvP.
Again, these are designed for small SG's which by their very nature can not afford a raid capable base.
[ QUOTE ]
For the "small SG buffs" to be PvP only would go beyond bad design and enter the realm of sublime anti-logic.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly! 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that they are geared to PvP is silly at best.
Edit: Re-reading the artical... There was nothing in there at all that said the temp powers would be used only for base PvP encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]Read again...
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair? Now you can prepare for a fight with Empowerment Stations."
[/ QUOTE ]
Have you ever heard the term "Flavor Text?"
One of my Villians desolves enemies [ie: NPC Mobs] in vomit and ripes them apart with "Dark Magic" ... sounds rather "deadly" to me. 
Edit for a clarification.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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[ QUOTE ]
Read again...
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair? Now you can prepare for a fight with Empowerment Stations."
[/ QUOTE ]
Prepare for battle in your deadly lair.
Get dressed for an interview in your bedroom.
Rehearse for a play in your sitting room.
Read about wild animals in your bed.
Get the idea?
[ QUOTE ]
Look, you have to be IN your base to USE the crafting tables that are located IN your base.
It doesn't necessarily mean that's where the battle is going to take place.
For the "small SG buffs" to be PvP only would go beyond bad design and enter the realm of sublime anti-logic.
[/ QUOTE ]If you are right, they worded it HORRIBLY. A simple red name coming on saying this will not be PVP only would take all of 10 seconds. But right now the way I read it is just as correct as the way you hope they meant it.
[ QUOTE ]
Get dressed for an interview in your bedroom.
Rehearse for a play in your sitting room.
Read about wild animals in your bed.
Get the idea?
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh. I have to say, at least two of those three sound much more interesting if you read them the way GoodHumorMan does.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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This is why they never tell us anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
More to the point I think, this is why jumping to conclusions based on flavor text, and screen shots is a very bad idea. Especially when the conclusion reached runs completely contrary to the stated goal of the new system.
There's a number of ways the new systems could be set up that might need improving... Say having to have new rooms to put empowerment stations in, and having different rooms for the storage vaults... Both of those would be IMO a bad idea.
Having the buffs from the empowerment stations be timed, with the timer starting as soon as the station is used would also be bad. Because then, the buff is only really useful if you can rush from your base to the mission...
However we have no real idea yet how true any of that is. We don't know for example if the empowerment stations and storage vaults will require their own rooms. We don't know how the buffs will work.
Until then this hits test, we have at best speculation based off flavor text and a few screen shots.
[ QUOTE ]
Heh. I have to say, at least two of those three sound much more interesting if you read them the way GoodHumorMan does.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your bedroom?"
@Mindshadow
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But right now the way I read it is just as correct as the way you hope they meant it.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it is not. The way you read it runs completely contrary to the stated goals of these new items. Goals stated in this very thread by a red name.
To read it the way you want to, requires disregarding everything that has been said up to this point by red names, and the assumption that the Dev's are so stupid they don't know that Small SG and PvP Base Raids are incompatable ideas.
[ QUOTE ]
Prepare for battle in your deadly lair.
Get dressed for an interview in your bedroom.
Rehearse for a play in your sitting room.
Read about wild animals in your bed.
Get the idea?
[/ QUOTE ]Sure but it is a preposition at the end of a sentence which can lead to confusion like this. They should have said "Have you ever wished you could throw together in your deadly lair some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle?" That does not limt the word "buffs" to "in your deadly lair" like the current version does.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assuming that they are geared to PvP is silly at best.
Edit: Re-reading the artical... There was nothing in there at all that said the temp powers would be used only for base PvP encounters.
[/ QUOTE ]Read again...
"Have you ever wished you could throw together some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle in your deadly lair? Now you can prepare for a fight with Empowerment Stations."
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, when I read that initially I got concerned as well. I hope that they are not intended solely for base raids.
I honestly don't understand where all the PvP love from the devs comes from. The arenas were basically a flop. The PvP zones are cooler, but still really only appeal to a certain segment of the gaming population. Instant base raids are fun, but also limited to a certain segment of the population (those with CoV and belonging to groups wealthy enough for a raid-capable base). If the full-on IoP base raids are as many have speculated (i.e. destroyed stuff is lost and must be replaced) with relatively minor boosts granted by the IoP, it is unlikely that system will ever be widely used.
Bases should really be 80% geared to improving the game experience for the players. The teleporters are cool, but two beacons per is very restrictive. The reclaimation chambers are cool, but healing to 25% is very unappealing. Expensive plots, rooms, and items are all de-motivators once a player realizes how long it will take to get even marginal functionality from their bases.
I really like what I'm seeing coming for bases in I7. I just hope that there aren't a lot of limitations attached to these items. I never understood why we needed a separate workroom in which to craft. Why not just plunk down a work table anywhere in the base? My biggest hopes for bases in I7 are these (whether there is basis to hope for these or not):
1.) Plots: reduce the cost of the 8x12 plot by 50% or more.
2.) The new banners and tables look awesome. More stuff like this please!
3.) Thinner walls (dividers) so we can separate rooms into smaller sections without eating up all of the space with 1x1 block walls.
4.) Fix the crash boxes around placable items so that they actually match the edges of the items. This is especially true for everything in the "desks" menu and the base entry portal. The box around the portal is extremely oversized. Many of the desks are so screwy that you can't put them together. You could make some really cool tables if this were fixed.
5.) Empowerment stations not limited to room type. Empowerments are useful in PvE.
6.) Storage items not limited to room type.
7.) An overall reduction in prices for everything and/or elimination of rent and/or upgrade in prestige earning rate.
Sorry to ramble . I have this glimmer of hope that a dev will read this and take it to heart.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Prepare for battle in your deadly lair.
Get dressed for an interview in your bedroom.
Rehearse for a play in your sitting room.
Read about wild animals in your bed.
Get the idea?
[/ QUOTE ]Sure but it is a preposition at the end of a sentence which can lead to confusion like this. They should have said "Have you ever wished you could throw together in your deadly lair some powerful instant buffs to prep for battle?" That does not limt the word "buffs" to "in your deadly lair" like the current version does.
[/ QUOTE ]
/em Looks at GoodHumorMan's Loc:
Must be something in the water.
Edit because I'm dumb. 
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
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[ QUOTE ]
I never understood why we needed a separate workroom in which to craft. Why not just plunk down a work table anywhere in the base?
[/ QUOTE ]
I can't find it, so I can't quote it... It's possible I am missremembering anyway...
But I swear I saw States or Recluse so this might of been in beta... Say that stuff they had in mind for small SG's would be placeable anywhere.
[ QUOTE ]
4.) Fix the crash boxes around placable items so that they actually match the edges of the items. This is especially true for everything in the "desks" menu and the base entry portal. The box around the portal is extremely oversized. Many of the desks are so screwy that you can't put them together. You could make some really cool tables if this were fixed.
[/ QUOTE ]
The "box" around the Entry Portal has to include the "Port In" area as well and alow for a relativly empty area so porting in doesn't get you hung up of terrain.
If you put a portal near a wall or corner you end up getting stuck in the portal as it is.
NCIS: Best gorram show in the 'verse.
-------------------------
Yeah, I remember when States said that the new stuff would be accessible for small SGs early-on. I assume that the empowerment stations are these, since the require no power or control. I asked him in PM if they would require a workroom or something some time ago, but got no response. I believe that they will be usable anywhere, which is cool and makes sense for the overall "help the little guy" theme. I'm more concerned about the storage stuff.
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, when I read that initially I got concerned as well. I hope that they are not intended solely for base raids.
[/ QUOTE ]
They aren't.
Quite apart from the sentence structure, consider this.
A small SG cannot go on base raids.
These additions are for small SGs.
Furthermore, there is no such thing as a buff or a temp power that only works in PvP.
Oh, and if you need further convincing, try reading all the way to the end...
'With the release of Issue 7 you can strategize in the great hall around your new table - your Supergroup banner flying high - grab the best Inspirations, update to the latest Enhancements, buff up at your Empowerment Station, and head off to battle confident that you shall be victorious no matter what plans your vile enemies might have in store.'
Head off to battle. This isn't PvP. Relax.
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you look at that $15 as just a means to meet with your Supergroup in the base, that's not without precedent.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe. I'd find it easier to swallow perhaps if it was part of a hero expansion, rather than being an entire game I really don't want to play. That aside, though...
[ QUOTE ]
In other games, if you don't buy an expansion, you might not, for instance, have access to entire zones, equipment, even buildings. How is what you describe -- being cut off from joining your SG-mates in the base -- really any different from being cut off from joining your SG-mates who are all off in another zone which is inaccessible to you?
[/ QUOTE ]
Generally, the lower level content remains available, and as long as you're playing at those levels, you can play with anyone else willing to play those levels with you, or the additional zones aren't at all critical.
For instance, back when I was playing Planetside, none of my gaming club's official nights used the cave areas after the expansion was announced, because not everyone available had the expansion. We could still play together, and really there was nothing essential down there.
This is more or less the same as having CoV come out, minus the base issue. You treat it more or less as a separate game, and your SG will end up enforcing its activity requirements on the hero side no matter what the activity is on the villain side, and either you still have enough members left to be self-sustaining or you don't. I don't really have a problem with that. I don't even have a problem with the extra villain-like costume options being made a separate purchase. None of that really drives a wedge into SGs.
What I do have a problem with is deliberately encouraging SGs to build and use meeting grounds that a chunk of the membership can't get into -- for no in-game reason whatsoever! If you're a RP SG, this gets doubly bad, because the bases turn either into OOC constructs, and become useless (how the heck do you explain the base security system randomly rejecting entrance to SG members -- in one case, a SG leader, even -- without any rhyme or reason), or split out all the hero players. The current advertisement is a continuation of such. The current system basically says that either you have a Hero SG consisting entirely of people who play villains, or you split up the area specifically designed for groups to get together into the villain players and the hero players, if they aren't willing to shell out money for a game they're never going to play.
It really is extortion. This isn't being aimed at people who want to explore new content together; it's being aimed at the people playing the same game together as they always have. Except that now a wedge is being driven in. Deliberately. Seriously, name a RP CoH SG that isn't using the new bases at this point. I play on Virtue, but I don't think there's one on any server. Pay $30 or we split your SG, with no other additional content to explore for your existing characters added. I don't know any other game that has done that, actually. Every single one of them added new high-end content at the same time, so there was some added value in there without actually abandoning everything you had done up until that point.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I'm thrilled with the decision to restrict bases to CoV owners. I'm not, really. But considering all of the work they've already done on the original game, and considering that they ARE a for-profit business, it shouldn't shock anyone that they're looking for incentives for people to buy their new product.
[/ QUOTE ]
Incentives? How about having a decent product that people want to play? There are decent business decisions and indecent business decisions. This is really one of the latter. They may have a right to do it; that doesn't make it a right thing to do. Treating the long-standing players of one of your games as second-class citizens for not buying a different game as well... I can't think of any place where that's likely to inspire loyalty. It would be like Blizzard only allowing players who own Diablo II to have places for guilds to meet.
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, long ramble. The point is, it's pretty cheap to buy CoV, all things considered. If you object on principle, that is of course your prerogative. I would imagine you haven't played other MMOs to any great extent, though. Everything is relative, after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
I played Planetside for about two years, and Everquest for about the same. The former required too much coordination, and so I left when my club basically fell apart for reasons unrelated to the Core expansion, and the latter turned incredibly tedious for me before expansions became an issue. Regardless, I'd note that "hey, other game companies do things that suck, too" isn't exactly a compelling argument. There's a reason I'm not playing those games. I imagine most CoX players are also not simultaneously playing those games, as the sheer time investment is somewhat staggering. Making your game more like a game that your players didn't want to play strikes me as a rather questionable decision. It's much more about the principle than it is about the money, with me. Like I said, I get stubborn around extortion. If they allowed heroes to get into bases, and unnerfed them slightly, I'd probably buy a collector's edition CoV just on principle to show support. It wouldn't be the first time I bought a game I never intended to play to support a company doing things I liked. I remember buying four copies of Neverwinter Nights, with both expansions, for instance, just so I'd have extra sets I could give out to friends I wanted to play. I still have one extra left. I don't regret it. Bioware is a good company, for the most part. I pre-ordered two copies of CoH, one of which quickly went to a friend. I buy when companies earn good will. I stop buying when they lose it.
None of this answers my question, though. We're now just arguing justifications and philosophies, and truly, I'm surprised that anyone cares. All I really want to know is whether or not hero players are going to be allowed into bases anytime soon. They could make this decision for reasons completely unrelated to the reason I care about it. I'm really only interested in the outcome.
If Posi showed up to write one of his typical one-liners, "No, we're never going to let heroes have bases unless they're also villains," that's all I'd want to know. Then I'd know not to bother looking at any base improvements they put out, and would drop the topic.
I'm sure this suggestion is obvious enough it's been made before, but I haven't seen it so I'll make it now.
It seems to me that the basic dichotomy is not just small vs large SG, it's also PvP vs non-PvP. Small SGs are pretty much by definition not interested in PvP, but even moderetely-large ones might not be.
It would be great if you'd offer some lower-cost base plots that don't allow placing PvP-related rooms. Also decrease the cost of the "decorative" room type. These two changes would allow a small SG interested in a nice-looking base that matches their role-playing can get one, without unbalancing things for groups whose main pride is in "showing" their base to invaders...
[ QUOTE ]
With the release of Issue 7 you can strategize in the great hall around your new table...
[/ QUOTE ]
Can we sit at this table? :-)
BB
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[ QUOTE ]
I'd say they'd be annoying to the point of being semi to mostly useless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yes, that's the other potential concern.
[/ QUOTE ]
Empowerment station buffs are currently set at 15 minute durations (far longer than any other non-toggle buff in the game). They are bestowed on you as soon as you craft them, and last 15 minutes from there. The idea is to have enough time to get you past that sticky part of a mission that was giving you trouble.
15 minutes is the time we are going to the Training Room with. If it turns out that that's not enough time for you to Empowerment Buff, get to the mission, and get you through the tough fight, then it will be increased.
Positron
Follow me on Twitter
A nice alternative would be:
15 (or whatever) minutes from when you activate it
Also, I want a Rularuu Watcher, that I can ride around like a big 'ole flying beachball.
Chief Hamster of the Fist of Justice / Shadows of Victory
Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
Rock, rock on Hamster.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say they'd be annoying to the point of being semi to mostly useless.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yes, that's the other potential concern.
@Mindshadow