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I was not going to delete a level 50 where I spent all of my time and money to get him to 50 for a badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
And thats the crux of the problem.... you had a choice... you made yours. Others did choose to delete (or simply create a new toon). The point is, you made your choice TO NOT earn Isolator back then, so WHY should you be rewarded now?
That folks is the problem in a nutshell... and exactly why I hope Positron is paying attention and decides to NEVER give a way to earn isolator...
Beefcake, you and others made your choice... dont punish those of us who made the other choice.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reading comprehension is a serious problem for you isnt it.
I said if I would have know that isolator was not going to be available outside of outbreak at the time badges were introduced then I may have chose to reroll, but no one knew as no GM or Dev would release any information on badges back then and hell they still don't today.
I repeated myself to you again, how many more times before you comprehend what I am saying?
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
You are abosultely correct... my bad for not realizing you dont understand the concept of " tutorial " 
[ QUOTE ]
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No one in this thread is asking for anything more then a chance to earn the badge which they never had the right to earn when the badge was introduced to all of us.
[/ QUOTE ]
You had that chance ( and heck you STILL DO) just create a new toon... you could have done it then, you can do it now.
SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
LMAO!!! In any context, what collector is going to through away all their collectables, including the rares they know they may not get back for one item?
Honestly, this has been covered.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing stopped you for anyone else from restarting their toons MONTHS ago.... thats the bottom line... you didnt have to throw away ANYTHING, simple earn isolator around I2... by creating a new toon then... those that didnt, want the easy way out... simple as that.
[/ QUOTE ]
My badge collector was level 30odd-somthing when badges came out. I would most certainly would have thrown all the datamined badges away. However neither that (at the time) or the levels are a factor in my decision. I choose not to do this so that I could continue to team with by friends who were all around the same level. They were not collectors where I was. They were not going to restart. And for me to do it and continue to team with them would not have happened the moment they got a mission in CF for an example. You can call it the easy way out or whatever.
It most certainly is a factor in my decision now. I will not delete my character that has rare badges.
I'm happy for you that you have Isolator because you decided to restart. But, not everyone's situation is the same.
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Edit: as far as the collector point of view... Ive already stated I support a new badge being added that simply says " I predate badges " (well not that exactly but HOPEFULLY you get the point... hedging my bets though)
[/ QUOTE ]
Great! I'm all for it. Makes no impact on this desicion though.
--Rad
/whereami:
I fixed my sig, is that better? I didn't realize it was so offensive having a badge count in your sig. So whoever has x number of 50's should not have them there. So whoever has x out x hami raids should not have them there. I think I posted like once in this thread. So if you think you accomplished something don't put it in your sig, most will think that you think of yourself as being uber? (I don't think I've ever typed or said that word before).
[ QUOTE ]
REALLY? So youre saying that my pre-i2 character will get Isolator as soon as I create an alt?
[/ QUOTE ]
no im saying roll another toon and youll have the badge. no mention of which toon youll have it on.
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Right now you are just adding to postcounts.
[/ QUOTE ]
well duh why else would i keep posting?
(You is used in a general sense in this post, not directly towards the person I am replying to)
I would only post a couple questions to those who didn't get the badge in Outbreak (myself included):
1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?
I sure didn't. It never occurred to me that it may earn anything ever.
2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?
I sure didn't. My main, my badgehunter, was created after i2, but I didn't know there was a badge there. So, did you go find out what all the content was prior to starting up the character you consider your badgehunter? Cuz if you didn't look it up prior to starting or kill 100 Contaminated for the hell of it, you wouldn't have gotten Isolator anyways.
If you did do one of these, then you can try to argue with Devs that have given no indication of changing their ways. If you didn't, tisk, tisk, those are someone else's coattails!
Only you know for sure if you did these. These aren't questions I expect anyone to honestly answer in this thread. Just something you may want to think about.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?
[/ QUOTE ]
Absolutely, I had a huge arguement with support when they said they were not going to be datamining the kills before the badges were implimented, the only thing that was datamined was mission badges and TF badges.
I ran Outbreak with my friends doing each of my missions and then each of their missions, not to mention the fun we had killing loads of them in the zone itself, then the missions kills, so I know we killed as a group way more then 100 of them.
[ QUOTE ]
2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, but badges did not exist when I went through Outbreak with my friends, so in all honesty, there was really no reason to kill 100 of them, unless it was for fun.
So at the time I was in Outbreak there was no badge info to read up on.
By the time badges were implimented, my main hero which is my tank was already level 50 and had every badge that was datamined when badges went live.
Again, if I would have known that the isolator badge was not going to be awarded outside of Outbreak when I chose to not to delete my hero, I may have thought seriously about it rather then telling people to kiss my [censored]!.
But at that time, I had no choice of knowing what to do, a few people deleted and rerolled too without knowing this badge would ever be given out outside of outbreak. So they got lucky in the long run.
Is it my fault, no I do not think it is my blame I do not have this badge, I feel it is poor judgement of the dev team and should have datamined this badge for the many who did not delete and reroll there hero.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
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We are not saying that. You can get the badge, just create another toon. Voila.
[/ QUOTE ]
And of course you know this is not what is meant.
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In all honesty, no-where have I stated that I don't think that the people who don't have Isolator shouldn't get any other badges as well, as was implied by Zubenelgenubi.
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But, you want it on your current one, well then you are taking missions and CoH/CoV development away from me. The time that it takes Cryptic to come up with a mission that allows you to get Isolator is time that they are not spending on End-game development, new powersets, Epic ATs, zone updates or any other number of things I would rather see.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wow. Why are your wants more important then other paying customers?
[/ QUOTE ]
I never said my wants and desires are more important. Mine are just as important and have an equal amount of validity in the eyes of the devs as yours. I am just stating mine. Mine just happen to not match with yours.
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Getting them to put in manhours developping a mission for isolator, or datamining so that they can figure out who should get it and on what heroes is, in my opinion, a colossal waste of time.
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I'm sorry you feel it is a colossal waste of time. I respectually disagree.
--Rad
[/ QUOTE ]
I can live with that.
[i]Edit - Changed first paragraph.
1) No I didn't kill 100 Contaminated. The badge was not in existance. There was not reason to do so. Though had it been, you bet I would have. And I could not forseen the future to know it would matter. Not like it would have. This was not a badge that was datamined.
2) No but, had several friends that were playing at the time who had played the game since beta or shortly after launch. I'm sure they would have told me on my first day as we were meeting up in Outbreak.
This also excludes those that have been playing longer from creating badge hunting teams (thus imparting the knowledge in the here and now). Just as was done when badges were released and still done to this day.
Even if I had not had it on my first character, that was not my badge collector (he was my third). And he would have had it on him had it existed at the time.
--Rad
EditL Fixing of typos.
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
I would only post a couple questions to those who didn't get the badge in Outbreak (myself included):
1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?
[/ QUOTE ]
When CoH first launched I got home from work (had an early shift that day), ran quickly to Hastings (2 blocks from my old apartment) and bought the game. I then plugged in all the account information crap and began my first character creation. (my main..never deleted..first of mine to 50) Now my coworker didn't get off until 4 hours after me. He wanted us to start playing at the same time so we could keep the same pace. So what does this all mean? I spent more than an hour in the tutorial goofing off and freezing things and blowing crap around with gale. Did I kill 100 contaminated? No..I probably killed a crapload more than that! And yeah..bitterness arises from the non-datamining.
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2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?
[/ QUOTE ]
Again..my coworker and I spent our free time reading about this game, playing with the character planners in great anticipation of this game. We'd created backstories and everything. (Yes, it was a slow dull boring job and I'm glad I'm done with college)
Isolator is the only badge my main never got the chance to earn. I could have deleted yes..I could have deleted the 600+ hours of memories and accomplishments I'd already gained with him. But I didn't. Is it my fault for not wanting to throw that away and make a new main? One who wasn't already equipped to work on dmg/healing/holding/etc with his primary/secondary powers (yes, I'm one of the lucky few that doesn't have to dip into pool powers to grab badges).? Yeah, I suppose it is my fault for not deleting.
You know what else is great...I never did half the task forces when I was first leveling up either. They were still bugged and wouldn't allow people to complete them. But guess what, I got a chance to get them. That's all I'm asking for.
San
p.s. -- I also want Eochai to raid PI again because that was some damn good fun.
lvl 50 Ice/Storm
facebook.com/sanbient
gplus.to/sanbient
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Stop posting the "Ad Hominem" stuff.
This is not a formal debate.
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Just because its not a formal debate doesnt mean that anything goes. If a poster has something of substance to say, let him say it. If he just wants to be rude, then he should expect that someone will call him out on it.
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Furthermore, if you are aware of what Logical Fallacies are, surely you are aware that just screaming "Logical Fallacy" does not invalidate the whole argument, it just gives you a place to start in with a rebuttal.
[/ QUOTE ]
screaming? Huh. Did I type in all caps? No? Was I shouting at my screen as I typed? (How would you know if I were, anyway?)
This is what I was responding to:
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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?
Again, if a poster has something of substance to say, let him say it. If he just wants to be rude, then he should expect that someone will call him out on it.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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You had that chance ( and heck you STILL DO) just create a new toon... you could have done it then, you can do it now.
SIMPLE AS THAT!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
You know, there isnt anything listed on my favorite logical fallacies web site that covers SHOUTING AS A MEANS OF TRYING TO FORCE AN END TO A DISCUSSION. Perhaps there should be.
Whatever.
Tremere, Im still waiting to hear how creating a new toon will magically allow my main character, my badge collector, my pre-i2 toon, to obtain Isolator. Pray enlighten us. Then all of us uber whiners can go away and do it, and this thread can die.
*taps foot expectantly*
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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We are not saying that. You can get the badge, just create another toon. Voila.
[/ QUOTE ]
And of course you know this is not what is meant.
[/ QUOTE ]
In all honesty, no-where have I stated that I don't think that the people who don't have Isolator shouldn't get any other badges as well, as was implied by Zubenelgenubi.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait
WHAT? What am I implying now?
Usually I dont like to imply anything, I just flat out state my positions. In this case
should I be defending myself or not? Honestly, I cant decipher your sentence. 
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really said in a particularly friendly manner, but it isn't entirely irrelevant.
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I would only post a couple questions to those who didn't get the badge in Outbreak (myself included):
1) Did you kill 100 Contaminated while you were there?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did. This was during the three day head start, and I thought there might be something hidden in outbreak. So I wasted quite a bit of time there,.
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2) Did you read up on all the content that was available in the game prior to going through Outbreak?
[/ QUOTE ]
I did not. I prefer being suprised, and you can't be suprised if you already know about everything in advance.
[ QUOTE ]
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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really said in a particularly friendly manner, but it isn't entirely irrelevant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I agree that it's relevant. It shows off the rhetorical and reasoning skills of Tremere and clues everybody in on what sort of quality postings we can expect from him in the future. Looking back on the last few pages, he did not disappoint.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
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This WHOLE thread is nothing but a bunch of whiners who have thier precious badge count posted in their Signature as some sort of "oh look how uber I am".
[/ QUOTE ]
So you think that this is reasonable? You think it adds to the discussion? You think this is a valid argument?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not really said in a particularly friendly manner, but it isn't entirely irrelevant.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, I agree that it's relevant. It shows off the rhetorical and reasoning skills of Tremere and clues everybody in on what sort of quality postings we can expect from him in the future. Looking back on the last few pages, he did not disappoint.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.
The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.
[ QUOTE ]
Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.
The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uhh, I know it's fun to think that everyone agrees with you(I do it too), but I have to say Tremere has to this point made many more convincing points than you have, IMO.
The best argument I've seen for doing this is that it doesn't really matter. I still haven't seen any compelling evidence that it matters enough that it should be implemented despite the fact that it doesn't really matter. I mean, it seems like that argument already precludes it from being worth any dev effort. I'd like to think they're spending their time doing something that does matter enough to do it.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a game, of course, it does not matter. I am however playing this game and I am a badge collector. I would love to have the badge on the same character that I have all my badges on. And that is what it comes down to.
Since I cannot go back in time (in real life) to delete the character and start over, and I cannot obtain numerous badges on a new character (including a re-roll). I would like a way to get it.
Arguments have been made against because of development resources (time, manpower, etc) from other desired features. There would be some certainly, but not to the extent that has been claimed. They have different teams for different aspects of the game. Those that work on mission development are probably not the same folks that do power creation. I say probably because I do not know the structure of the organization. But, there is a difference between writing a story and coding a power with certain effects.
Development of this could be minimal. There is already a mission in the high level game that has essentially the same baddies with the group affiliation of Infected. All that would need to be done is two text changes; one to the group's affiliation and the other a change to the badge. But, Positron's post certainly rules that out as a possibility. That is a choice out of my hands.
Tremere has argued that because you can get it now on another character (including rerolling) an option should not be available for existing characters. This is sidestepping it. We all know it can be done on new a character, which was not the request.
His argument about deleting at the time is valid. Regardless of that argument's validity, it still does not make the request to have a way to get it through other means any less valid. This is something in the past that cannot be changed. And of course this will lead into the arguments about it being the same as those that missed an event badge. I have already addressed my thoughts on this and why I do not agree it is the same. I was an active player with an active character. In all of the special events, that would allow me to get the badges. The choice to get the badge would depend then on be taking the actions needed to get the badge, whether that is hunting, clicking on presents, or doing a mission for a contact.
--Rad
/whereami:
[ QUOTE ]
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We are not saying that. You can get the badge, just create another toon. Voila.
[/ QUOTE ]
And of course you know this is not what is meant.
[/ QUOTE ]
In all honesty, no-where have I stated that I don't think that the people who don't have Isolator shouldn't get any other badges as well, as was implied by Zubenelgenubi.
[/ QUOTE ]
Wait
WHAT? What am I implying now?
Usually I dont like to imply anything, I just flat out state my positions. In this case
should I be defending myself or not? Honestly, I cant decipher your sentence.
[/ QUOTE ]
In your post (#4996818 - 03/12/06 01:53 AM) you stated:
[ QUOTE ]
Get Isolator on your toons or don't. Paint your house blue or don't. It doesn't affect me. I have not, nor will I EVER say that your particular characters should NEVER be allowed to have this badge, that badge, or some other badge.
You, LiquidX, and a couple of others, however, don't seem to want to extend that same courtesy to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
I read that last phrase as you saying that LiquidX, myself and some others want to keep you from getting Isolator plus any number of other badges.
Let's see, Positron said that if they added the ability to get the badge after leaving Outbreak it would be extremely hard to get. Many players challenged Positron that he could never develop something so hard that it would discourage them from doing it.
Of course what if the challenge is not game related. What could be harder than getting everyone to agree on one stance in the forums about the badge?
[ QUOTE ]
Let's see, Positron said that if they added the ability to get the badge after leaving Outbreak it would be extremely hard to get. Many players challenged Positron that he could never develop something so hard that it would discourage them from doing it.
Of course what if the challenge is not game related. What could be harder than getting everyone to agree on one stance in the forums about the badge?
[/ QUOTE ]
They could hook the Isolator badge into another Valentines Day style promotion.
[ QUOTE ]
I read that last phrase as you saying that LiquidX, myself and some others want to keep you from getting Isolator plus any number of other badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, in the case of LiquidX, this is probably true.
This whole argument about whether you actually killed 100 Contaminated seems irrelevant, since the devs didn't (and as a practical matter, can't) datamine for any kill badges when they were first implemented. There were no doubt a few people who DID kill 100 of them while in Outbreak, and even then they're not going to get their badge.
People who deserve the badge didn't get it, and it's impossible to determine who those deserving people even are. I'm not at all suggesting Isolator just be handed out to every I1 character, mind you. A pain in the butt second chance sounds plenty appropriate, as it's only the dedicated badge collectors who would spend all that time fighting 100 Contaminated in the first place.
Arc #41077 - The Men of State
Arc #48845 - Operation: Dirty Snowball
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I read that last phrase as you saying that LiquidX, myself and some others want to keep you from getting Isolator plus any number of other badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, in the case of LiquidX, this is probably true.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to speak for LiquidX, but from my reading of his posts, his main problem is the fact that the badge starts off with "You started your Career..." and if you get it after that it doesn't work. IIRC, he would have no problem with another badge for killing X contaminated, but only having the isolator badge available if you killed them in the tutorial.
[ QUOTE ]
People who deserve the badge didn't get it, and it's impossible to determine who those deserving people even are. I'm not at all suggesting Isolator just be handed out to every I1 character, mind you. A pain in the butt second chance sounds plenty appropriate, as it's only the dedicated badge collectors who would spend all that time fighting 100 Contaminated in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I mentioned before, this is a method that, IMO, would take a lot of effort and time from the devs. Making a misssion like that would not be the trivial task that some people might think.
[ QUOTE ]
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I read that last phrase as you saying that LiquidX, myself and some others want to keep you from getting Isolator plus any number of other badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, in the case of LiquidX, this is probably true.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't mean to speak for LiquidX, but from my reading of his posts, his main problem is the fact that the badge starts off with "You started your Career..." and if you get it after that it doesn't work. IIRC, he would have no problem with another badge for killing X contaminated, but only having the isolator badge available if you killed them in the tutorial.
[/ QUOTE ]
That pretty much hit the nail on the head right there. As mentioned here and in the last Isolator thread, what I would be willing to compromise with (And, just so no one else gets snotty about it and accusing me of having some kind of Peter Molyneux god complex over it, when I say I'm willing to compromise about it I mean I wouldn't complain if they did it) was Puretones suggestion of allowing you to earn it later with altered text IF you didn't get it in Outbreak.
So, in essence, there would be "two" badges, but named Isolator and with different texts. THIS, I feel, would be a fine compromise between the desires of the two "groups".
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
People who deserve the badge didn't get it, and it's impossible to determine who those deserving people even are. I'm not at all suggesting Isolator just be handed out to every I1 character, mind you. A pain in the butt second chance sounds plenty appropriate, as it's only the dedicated badge collectors who would spend all that time fighting 100 Contaminated in the first place.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I mentioned before, this is a method that, IMO, would take a lot of effort and time from the devs. Making a misssion like that would not be the trivial task that some people might think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, lets look at the different solutions possible and the downsides:
1) Datamine for those who actually defeated 100 contaminated before Issue 2.
Downside: Requires lots of work for very little payoff, as very few of us actually bothered to smack around that many contaminated.
2) Retroactively grant Isolator to anyone who was here before Issue 2.
Downside: To quote a term thrown around in this discussion, this would be very unfair to those who actually DID the work before the badge was put into outbreak, those who were actually willing to delete their high level characters to get the badge when Issue 2 was released, and to those who have actually done the work to earn it now.
3) Create a new mission that would allow people to earn the badge, or simply toss a bunch of contaminated into a zone.
Disadvantages: This would require resources better used elsewhere for little payoff, and/or would completly nullify the badge and its description.
And despite what a certain Irkin alligned poster (X's Note: This isn't meant to be a [censored] comment. This is just because I can't remember how to spell his name, but DO remember his avatar that shows he has good tastes.) thinks, this is how allowing other people to get Isolator *does* affect me, and other players too. Just about any solution done by the Dev's require some form of Resources (Like manpower) which could be used (In my opinion, anyways) for more important things. Such as getting Wings in, getting the "newspaper" tech into CoH, creating new costume options, and so on.
[ QUOTE ]
I was not going to delete a level 50 where I spent all of my time and money to get him to 50 for a badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
And thats the crux of the problem.... you had a choice... you made yours. Others did choose to delete (or simply create a new toon). The point is, you made your choice TO NOT earn Isolator back then, so WHY should you be rewarded now?
That folks is the problem in a nutshell... and exactly why I hope Positron is paying attention and decides to NEVER give a way to earn isolator...
Beefcake, you and others made your choice... dont punish those of us who made the other choice.