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Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless.
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It'll keep you from being AS'd, not from being hit.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
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I'm curious what your Ice Blasters secondary set is? Also, I think perhaps your constant breaking of LoS is a little over the top. With my Stalker, I find that an erratic moving opponent is usually enough to prevent me lining up an AS.
If you'll let me know what you secondary set is, I'll offer up the things that you could be doing differently that would make my life much more difficult.
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Chilling Embrace is from the Ice secondary, so its an Ice/Ice blaster under discussion.
I thought Chilling Embrace was an auto-hit, so am a little surprised that the auto spd and recharge doesn't interrupt the AS. Seems like everything up to and including a sneeze into a wet hanky interrupts mine.
If that doesnt work I guess Frozen Aura would work since its a Sleep but you need to be lvl 38 to take FA and.... it does have an accuracy check 
. If that's counted as an AoE check, then FA wont work very well against a Hidden Stalker.
Drop a lot of Ice Patches when / if you are not moving.
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Yup you're right, I missed that... Thanks.
I dont believe that -spd or -recharge will interrupt AS or disrupt Hide, but I could be mistaken on that.
Dropping Ice Patches probably wont do you much good either, since Acrobatics is so common.
The Whirlwind is pretty effective against some of the Stalker builds, but isnt fool proof, and I believe EA users can walk through it no problem.
If it were me, playing an Ice Blaster with the intent of hunting Stalkers, I would slot up at least 1 fast recharging attack with extra ACC to use to prevent Stalkers from getting back into hide. I would be trying to get AIM and BU into the build sooner. Tactics would be nice, but running WW all the time you're gonna be pushing your Endurance envelope pretty hard.
In your case, I would prob just skip Stealth. Any Stalker using Ninjitsu will see you. The power pool and slot are better used elsewhere, IMO.
AIM and BU though are really the kickers, two great powers which will both help you blow past defenses and will seriously increase your burst damage, which is what Ice Blast is really good at.
Actually, my Stalker stalker was in jest. I have no desire to hunt one AT, one person, one anything. I just want to spend some time in Siren's Call and have fun without being so stressed about that one AT hunting me 
I came back from WOW because I was getting bored over there. I never stopped paying here, because I love here. But, I have done the PVE thing and I haven't quite desired playing a Villian (not my personallity type) for the the new content over there, though I own a copy of COV.
I am playing Dungeons and Dragons Online right now with 3 friends, but we don't play everynight or the whole time, so I am trying to have fun in Siren's Call. I know, I know, gank fest zone, don't even try. But, I want to try.
Edit: it is actually the only PVP zone I know how to find, at the moment. I haven't found the others, yet
Basic Scrapper Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Basic Tanker Info in Issue 7 (draft)
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Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless. I respecced out of it with my Blaster. I figure I won't be PVE anymore, been there, done that. I read Chilling Embrace is awesome, but it does no damage,
[/ QUOTE ]
While it takes damage to knock a stalker out of hide, a lot of things that don't damage will interrupt AS. For example, I tested kinetic's repel in the arena (just a melee-range PbAOE knockback aura) against an SR stalker running elude and popping purples to the defense cap and he was completely unable to get an AS off if I was standing still. The one time he got it off was when he hit it just as I was backing away from him.
I'm not sure about ice patch (haven't tested it), but I know I can't AS on quicksand, earthquake, caltrops and bunch of other location AoEs. It's worth testing. If repel interrupts, I would think that ice patch would as well.
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If what you say is correct, then it seems like I should be able to have CE and Whirlwind going and read the newspaper, free from AS (but not stuns). But, I doubt that. I can test the theory.
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Whirlwind will keep you from getting AS'ed - I've tried many times to get whirlwinding blasters (including ones that have been immoblized) and failed. I haven't tested against it in the arena in a controlled setting, so it may be possible with very precise timing and a lot of luck to AS a moving target with whirlwind, but I've never done it or seen it done.
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It seems that good Stalkers get around any power, including Hurricane. I was standing between two Hurricanes one time and one of the Hurricanes suddenly stopped. I looked over at the Defender who was staggering around stunned. The Stalker didn't use AS, he used another power that stuns and is not interruptable. Needless to say, that Defender died before the other Defender or myself could do anything. Now that is a talented Stalker
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It definitely takes luck and skill to do what that undoubtably EM/* stalker did. My stormy isn't high enough to get into Siren's yet, but I've been hit that way once by an EM stalker in BB. Popped a BF and ran for a few seconds until I get get hurricane back. He tried many, many times before that one successful attempt got through.
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Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless. I respecced out of it with my Blaster.
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Agreed, Ice Patch is great for PvE, not very useful in PvP.
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I read Chilling Embrace is awesome, but it does no damage, so I assumed it wouldn't do a thing against Stalkers AS.
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I really dont think Blaster CE will interrupt AS, but the -spd and -recharge on the power are nice. Unfortunately though, in PvP anyone close enough to be affected by CE is probably going to kill you in only one trip through his attack chain, so the -recharge wont come into play much.
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If what you say is correct, then it seems like I should be able to have CE and Whirlwind going and read the newspaper, free from AS (but not stuns). But, I doubt that. I can test the theory.
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Well, Stalkers with EA are going to walk through your WW I believe, so it isnt foolproof. WW is not foolproof against non EA Stalkers either, although its a whole lot trickier to AS a Whirlwinder without EA. I can usually AS a WWer if I can get an AS activated as they pass by me. It all relies on the WWer blowing by me between WW pulses. Super Speeding might actually make it easier for aome Stalkers to hit you through WW.
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It seems that good Stalkers get around any power, including Hurricane.
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It really comes down to power sets for this... I have never ever been able to even hit someone running Hurricane with my NB/Nin Stalker. If I had EA I would only have to deal with the ACC debuff and not the repel/knockback component of Hurricane, I believe.
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I was standing between two Hurricanes one time and one of the Hurricanes suddenly stopped. I looked over at the Defender who was staggering around stunned. The Stalker didn't use AS, he used another power that stuns and is not interruptable. Needless to say, that Defender died before the other Defender or myself could do anything. Now that is a talented Stalker
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Well, thats Energy Melee... Probably an EM/EA Stalker, popped some yellows and hit him with Bone Smasher or one of his other attacks. Personally, I think EM is probably going to get "Looked at" in the near future, but I could be wrong since other ATs version of EM have survived this long...
I want more.
I have always been happy that the devs of this game have been so close to thier players and respond to our questions.
But I feel the broadness and vageness of this post we are owed a more in depth response.
Will this effect NPCs meaning will it no longer be posable to drop anything in one shot? Or will this effect players only? Will it stop NPCs from one shoting players? The one second damage thing will that be total damage or damge from one person? What if I AS the same time a corruptor snipes our attacks hit at the same time thus causeing a player to go from 100% of HP to 0 in a second.
I personaly do not see how this is going to change my PvP style I can not one shot anything in WB aside from MMs. I always need atlest one extra attack for the kill.
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thow all the "but everyone can see stalkers" and "it's easy to avoid AS's.. just keep moving" [censored] all you want, my main villain IS a stalker, I know how it is
keeping moving doesn't do jack [censored] for an AS.. all the stalker has to do is not move and have it que'd when the hero comes close enough
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Dude, you are either lying, or don't play PvP, or are just plain wrong. Two falsehoods in one post, stated with such bravado..
You can't queue the power. Stop telling me how easy it is when you don't even know how it works.
Moving saves lives. If you don't believe this, you are either a novice player, or have never actually tried to strike a moving target.
It's stuff like this that keeps disinformation alive, and convices the already-uninformed to accept outright MYTHs about how Stalker powers work. You aren't helping anyone by proving your ignorance.
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Being in the majority doesn't make you right. It just means your signal-noise ratio is higher.
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Best 2 sentances of the year.... Copied into the sig
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You're doing the typical thing I see in the stalker forums. You argue inconsistent points and march out endless armies of strawmen. Someone refutes A and you switch to B. Someone refutes B and you argue C. Someone refutes C and you argue A again...even tho it was already shot down. It's pointless.
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Understanding how debate works doesn't necessarily make you right, just like knowing the names of your power-tray buttons doesn't necessarily mean you know what to do with them in combat.
Refute this:
The devs have given heroes all the tools they need to defend themselves against Stalkers and defeat them, including inspirations, AT powers, pool powers, temp powers and team combinations.
True or False?
I know that all the necessary tools are there because I've seen good hero teams use them with GREAT success. So.. why can't you?
If you are too lazy or incompetent to use the provided tools, then what you are complaining about is inconvenience and your completely subjective 'fun factor', not balance.
I bet Castle and the dev team cry everytime they read a 'nerf stalkers' post. I believe the dev team went to some length to insure that there were ways to thwart this (guaranteed to be) controversial AT, and I see Stalkers as a testament to how powerful the devs view the hero ATs.
But I guess they have over-estimated the ability of many players. And here we are.
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Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless. I respecced out of it with my Blaster. I figure I won't be PVE anymore, been there, done that. I read Chilling Embrace is awesome, but it does no damage,
[/ QUOTE ]
While it takes damage to knock a stalker out of hide, a lot of things that don't damage will interrupt AS. For example, I tested kinetic's repel in the arena (just a melee-range PbAOE knockback aura) against an SR stalker running elude and popping purples to the defense cap and he was completely unable to get an AS off if I was standing still. The one time he got it off was when he hit it just as I was backing away from him.
I'm not sure about ice patch (haven't tested it), but I know I can't AS on quicksand, earthquake, caltrops and bunch of other location AoEs. It's worth testing. If repel interrupts, I would think that ice patch would as well.
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If what you say is correct, then it seems like I should be able to have CE and Whirlwind going and read the newspaper, free from AS (but not stuns). But, I doubt that. I can test the theory.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whirlwind will keep you from getting AS'ed - I've tried many times to get whirlwinding blasters (including ones that have been immoblized) and failed. I haven't tested against it in the arena in a controlled setting, so it may be possible with very precise timing and a lot of luck to AS a moving target with whirlwind, but I've never done it or seen it done.
[ QUOTE ]
It seems that good Stalkers get around any power, including Hurricane. I was standing between two Hurricanes one time and one of the Hurricanes suddenly stopped. I looked over at the Defender who was staggering around stunned. The Stalker didn't use AS, he used another power that stuns and is not interruptable. Needless to say, that Defender died before the other Defender or myself could do anything. Now that is a talented Stalker
[/ QUOTE ]
It definitely takes luck and skill to do what that undoubtably EM/* stalker did. My stormy isn't high enough to get into Siren's yet, but I've been hit that way once by an EM stalker in BB. Popped a BF and ran for a few seconds until I get get hurricane back. He tried many, many times before that one successful attempt got through.
[/ QUOTE ]
I can AS a person standing still with Whirlwind on, about 90% of the time.
I can AS (if it lands ) a Stone Tank/Brute with Mudpots on, about 80% of the time.
I can't AS through Repel, Chilling Embrace, Hurricane, Force Bubble, certain Dark Miasma powers or any of the Radiation toggle debuffs.
I am not Energy Melee.
Some powers such as Repel and Chilling Embrace can be AS'd, but not while the target is standing still. I must queue up the attack while in melee range, and then they have to move away and my AS will not get interrupted. It actually happens a lot, I will see somebody with Repel on, speed ahead to cut them off, queue up the AS when they get close, and then as they move by, BOOM.
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Refute this:
The devs have given heroes all the tools they need to defend themselves against Stalkers and defeat them, including inspirations, AT powers, pool powers, temp powers and team combinations.
True or False?
I know that all the necessary tools are there because I've seen good hero teams use them with GREAT success. So.. why can't you?
If you are too lazy or incompetent to use the provided tools, then what you are complaining about is inconvenience and your completely subjective 'fun factor', not balance.
I bet Castle and the dev team cry everytime they read a 'nerf stalkers' post. I believe the dev team went to some length to insure that there were ways to thwart this (guaranteed to be) controversial AT, and I see Stalkers as a testament to how powerful the devs view the hero ATs.
But I guess they have over-estimated the ability of many players. And here we are.
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QFT
sheesh, lets just have the DEV change all of us into brutes when we enter PVP and problem solve !
seriously , if an assassin class cant hide, and cant deal a fatal blow on u, then what good isit? I agree getting 1 shotted is irritating, but Stalker arent the only one doing that. plus AS is an interruptable skill, mean u have a chance to knock it away.
the 1% rule seems to even the odds, so if u run away from a stalker when he is doing AS, he cant kill u, n he cant do a follow up hit to kill u either since u ran away.
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sheesh, lets just have the DEV change all of us into brutes when we enter PVP and problem solve !
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That would be AWESOME. For a short while.
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seriously , if an assassin class cant hide, and cant deal a fatal blow on u, then what good isit?
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They'd still able to achieve Burst damage and aggro management (yes, even in PVP). Just not as well as a Blaster, if they don't have AS.
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I agree getting 1 shotted is irritating, but Stalker arent the only one doing that. plus AS is an interruptable skill, mean u have a chance to knock it away.
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People like to argue that they can't see a Stalker before the AS (which is untrue, entirely, with most PVPers on certain servers).
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the 1% rule seems to even the odds, so if u run away from a stalker when he is doing AS, he cant kill u, n he cant do a follow up hit to kill u either since u ran away.
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Unless they idiotically stand there, refuse to team, or don't take up powers to see Stalkers.
I hate being one-shotted by an enemy that I can't see and I'm glad for this change.
That said, I've finally discovered a way to fight stalkers now. It took a lot of trial and error, but it works. I have to bring a tray full of insights and pop three whenever I know there's one near me. It rather sucks having to leave the zone to restock my tray, but 'them's the breaks,' I suppose. At least now I actually get to fight them, even though I still lose most of the time.
This has made PvP that much more fun for me. It's annoying that I can't really pick up any inspirations other than insights, but hey, if that's what works, I won't complain.
I still think Stalkers are incredibly frustrating and ultimately unfun in 1v1 combat. There's just nothing that can stand up to them solo apart from storm defenders/controllers. Last night, though, I teamed up with an Empath in SC. Stacked Clear Minds felt like cheating. Previously, a single stalker could come, pick off the squishy members of the team at whim, and run away. With the Empath, they thought they could and ended up getting slaughtered. It felt vindicating to 'gank the gankers.'
Stalkers are probably balanced with this change, at least as far as team play goes. If they'd add an inspiration vendor in SC (is there one?), it'd be enough to make me 100% happy with them.
The Ballad of Iron Percy
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Some powers such as Repel and Chilling Embrace can be AS'd, but not while the target is standing still. I must queue up the attack while in melee range, and then they have to move away and my AS will not get interrupted. It actually happens a lot, I will see somebody with Repel on, speed ahead to cut them off, queue up the AS when they get close, and then as they move by, BOOM.
[/ QUOTE ]
I presume by "queue up" you mean you're hitting the key constantly to try to initiate the attack just as the target goes by, not that you're queuing the attack before the target gets near and then letting it go off on auto as soon as the target gets in range.
It's best to be clear, otherwise we feed myths about how easy it is to AS moving targets.
I haven't tested whirlwind in a controlled setting, I just remember getting rather quickly interrupted during the few opportunities I've have to hit a stationary WW'er in the zones. Is is that the interrupt portion isn't auto-hit, do you think, or that the range is less than AS? If it's the first, it may just be harder for me as a */regen to do.
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Stalkers are probably balanced with this change, at least as far as team play goes. If they'd add an inspiration vendor in SC (is there one?), it'd be enough to make me 100% happy with them.
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I'm sure controllers and dominators would absolutely love the idea of a never ending supply of break-frees. I bet high damage ATs (like scrappers, blasters and stalkers) wouldn't abuse stocking up on a boatload of purple and red every pass through the zone at all.
I'm glad you found a way to fight stalkers and that you're having fun. I hope it opens the door to the idea that they're not invincible ganking machines and that you can begin to fight them with fewer (or even no) inspirations.
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Some powers such as Repel and Chilling Embrace can be AS'd, but not while the target is standing still. I must queue up the attack while in melee range, and then they have to move away and my AS will not get interrupted. It actually happens a lot, I will see somebody with Repel on, speed ahead to cut them off, queue up the AS when they get close, and then as they move by, BOOM.
[/ QUOTE ]
I presume by "queue up" you mean you're hitting the key constantly to try to initiate the attack just as the target goes by, not that you're queuing the attack before the target gets near and then letting it go off on auto as soon as the target gets in range.
It's best to be clear, otherwise we feed myths about how easy it is to AS moving targets.
I haven't tested whirlwind in a controlled setting, I just remember getting rather quickly interrupted during the few opportunities I've have to hit a stationary WW'er in the zones. Is is that the interrupt portion isn't auto-hit, do you think, or that the range is less than AS? If it's the first, it may just be harder for me as a */regen to do.
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They pulse. If you click AS between pulses, and they move out of range before the next pulse, you are not interrupted.
Basic Scrapper Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Basic Tanker Info in Issue 7 (draft)
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Stalkers are probably balanced with this change, at least as far as team play goes. If they'd add an inspiration vendor in SC (is there one?), it'd be enough to make me 100% happy with them.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure controllers and dominators would absolutely love the idea of a never ending supply of break-frees. I bet high damage ATs (like scrappers, blasters and stalkers) wouldn't abuse stocking up on a boatload of purple and red every pass through the zone at all.
I'm glad you found a way to fight stalkers and that you're having fun. I hope it opens the door to the idea that they're not invincible ganking machines and that you can begin to fight them with fewer (or even no) inspirations.
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Thing is, I can't fight them without inspirations, since I can't see them at all. With inspirations, I'm impressed if a Stalker manages to gank me, since it means that I never actually saw it coming. The Stalker actually has to use real skill in order to avoid detection.
I guess I can see how a vendor in the zone could be easily abused. I'll have to be satisfied with running to Steel to restock.
The Ballad of Iron Percy
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some day you will realize that stalkers are assassins, and what good is an assassin that has to hit their target more then once, have you watched the movie The Matador about the old timer assassin that was getting soft and missed his target and his boss wanted him wacked, well Lord Recluse is my boss and im not getting on his bad side!
Marine snipers are trained to kill their targets in one shot from far away then disappear.(back in the day a sniper with one target would be given one canteen of water, 5 .50 cal bullets, a little bit of food, a 20 mile crawl and 3-7 days alone(sometimes with a spotter) in the middle of the jungle, if he missed his first shot he was usually screwed)
Marine Corps motto, one of many: one shot one KILL!! the devs made us, were perfecting it, and people are complaining, its ok to change it a bit but dont hurt us without helping us at the same time.
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when both the assasin and the target are paying to play a computer game, these 'real world' examples do not work and are completely irrelevant
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I still think Stalkers are incredibly frustrating and ultimately unfun in 1v1 combat. There's just nothing that can stand up to them solo
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*/SR Scrappers, */Regen Scrappers, Broadsword/* Scrappers, */Energy Blasters, */Devices Blasters, Ice/* Blasters, Fire/* Blasters, Invulnerability/* Tankers, Ice/* Tankers, and Stone/* Tankers, MOSTLY. There ARE others that can stand up to'em, 1-on-1. They can all stand up to a Stalker, solo. It just takes a lot of sacrifice, as far as personal choices go, just as it does a Stalker.
[ QUOTE ]
Um.. don't know about multiple posting or what not, but thanks, I had missed the death knell from States.
Gee, why be a stalker when you can 2-shot just as well and probably a lot safer, with almost as much stealth with a /DA brute?
Thanks States.
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While this thread has made it clear that many Stalkers do *not* share this view, the fact remains that many do. The remark is too telling to ignore; made part of my sig for the time being.
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Um.. don't know about multiple posting or what not, but thanks, I had missed the death knell from States.
Gee, why be a stalker when you can 2-shot just as well and probably a lot safer, with almost as much stealth with a /DA brute?
Thanks States.
[/ QUOTE ]
While this thread has made it clear that many Stalkers do *not* share this view, the fact remains that many do. The remark is too telling to ignore; made part of my sig for the time being.
[/ QUOTE ]
lol who thinks that way other then him?
If you looked through the thread and the boards, it doesnt seem to be a fact that many others do.
As for calling him a stalker that has that opinion,
You dont even know if he has a stalker.
Quote him by using his name, not by an AT you think he plays. Since he most likely has multiple ATs he plays. Looking at this recent posts seems like he is more of a Troller.
I'm sure he does play many AT's, however, he has said that he plays a stalker in other posts. Not an assumption on my part.
Edit: and honestly, I have to admit: mostly I'm quoting it because I think it's hilarious.
Sooo..for giggles, and in the name of science, I have been practicing *Not* one shotting people. I have not used any damage inspirations (Never really did anyway in PvP) and/or no build up (depending on how many hit points they had left to take them down to the proper range).
So in my experiment, I have been hitting people (in hotspots) to the point of leaving them with what I think, (though I dont have exact numbers) will be the percentage of health left after the ont shot changes are made.
I have then been stepping back, to allow them to make use of this second chance they have. Heal, run, chew some inspirations, call for help, write a eulogy- anything.
What I've seen is-
A whole lota people standing there dieing to NPC's.
Why? Because it takes ONE hit- from ONE NPC in a location where there are normally 10-30 (Hot spots I am talking about) just waiting to attack them.
A few have managed a green, and did not immediatly fall dead, instead- they managed to run- but moments later were normally overcome by enemy fire power, either NPC or PC.
A few chose to heal with some sort of self heal, and got away.
However- not one single person stayed to engage with me.
In fact- not one single person came BACK to fight.
But I did get a TON of "OMG U GREIFER" tells, and the majority of them, wished I had just killed killed them off.
So- while I could have done so- easily, I chose to let them have this "Chance" to fight back that they wanted-and learned that is translation for- they want the chance to run away (Which I understand- I'm a big meanie).
Maybe in time this will change, people will learn how to better react to only having a sliver of health remaining- and stick around to fight, or at least, get themselves out of harms way.
I won't go out of my way to double shot people when the new system is implimented. Just for a little while, until the problems from it become very clear. I'll let them have their second chances, and let what may come, come.
I don't use AS, so it really doesn't affect my play style, it always takes two shots for me to kill someone, unless I'm taking on more than one PvP'r in a group.
But as a stalker, I am just about tired of being everyones reason for big tears and tantrums. If you beleive everything you hear, we are afterall, only 2 steps away from having been the cause of at least one of the world wars, and quite possibly the reason for cancer, plagues, and puppies who won't potty train.
-Seppy
[ QUOTE ]
. If that's counted as an AoE check, then FA wont work very well against a Hidden Stalker.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious what your Ice Blasters secondary set is? Also, I think perhaps your constant breaking of LoS is a little over the top. With my Stalker, I find that an erratic moving opponent is usually enough to prevent me lining up an AS.
If you'll let me know what you secondary set is, I'll offer up the things that you could be doing differently that would make my life much more difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
Chilling Embrace is from the Ice secondary, so its an Ice/Ice blaster under discussion.
I thought Chilling Embrace was an auto-hit, so am a little surprised that the auto spd and recharge doesn't interrupt the AS. Seems like everything up to and including a sneeze into a wet hanky interrupts mine.
If that doesnt work I guess Frozen Aura would work since its a Sleep but you need to be lvl 38 to take FA and.... it does have an accuracy check
Drop a lot of Ice Patches when / if you are not moving.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless. I respecced out of it with my Blaster. I figure I won't be PVE anymore, been there, done that. I read Chilling Embrace is awesome, but it does no damage, so I assumed it wouldn't do a thing against Stalkers AS. I haven't stopped long enough in PVP to test the theory. If what you say is correct, then it seems like I should be able to have CE and Whirlwind going and read the newspaper, free from AS (but not stuns). But, I doubt that. I can test the theory.
It seems that good Stalkers get around any power, including Hurricane. I was standing between two Hurricanes one time and one of the Hurricanes suddenly stopped. I looked over at the Defender who was staggering around stunned. The Stalker didn't use AS, he used another power that stuns and is not interruptable. Needless to say, that Defender died before the other Defender or myself could do anything. Now that is a talented Stalker
Basic Scrapper Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Basic Tanker Info in Issue 7 (draft)