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The only time I ever smiled when getting 1-shot AS'd was while my Controller was traveling 80+ mph across Siren's Call headed back to the entrance. I hit the main road that intersects with the hospital drive after maneuvering the obstacle coarse (area where the road is broken) and POW. Now that was impressive! I still haven't figured that one out. Only thing I can think of is that he blocked the little gate and I bounced off him, instead of the wall as I thought I had and when I continued on, he already had it queued up. Since I never broke LOS, that would explain it.
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AS is almost exactly like Snipe on a Blaster (with the exception of a ~5 ft ranage). If you play a stalker enough, you start to get good at hitting moving targets. 
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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The only way for a Stalker to do what you described is to time the click juuuuuust right. Or click as fast as possible and hope for the best.
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the second thing you mentioned is actually alot easier then you describe. I do it on my stalker quite often against people with super speed (yes, my stalker is fast enough to run past someone with SS and stop to start clicking on AS till they run by. You can ask the many heroes in Protector's Sirens Call about that. Quickness, sprint, swift, 2-slotted SS will do that)
so long as they just work pushing out I7 fast i dont care if Devs get some backlash on the 1% deal.
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I don't think that's a realistic assumption, as blappers already prove
[/ QUOTE ] Except in my experience you're wrong. There are number of blasters in 'Burg that will gank anyone. But I can see them coming and my solo defenders can do any number of debuffs or statusing effects on them to either mitigate or completely incapacitate them. While Blappers/Blasters are extremely dangerous, there is an order of magnitude more enjoyment in being able to see them...BEFORE they attack and being able to attack them on sight. They can hunt, but they can't avoid being the hunted. Stalkers, as designed, get to have an asymmeterical benefit in that area.
PvP 1v1 is never a fair fight. Some fights are less unfair than others. But inviso+AS'ing is not fun. That's all there is to it. It's a question of whether players find the experience enjoyable, not whether stalkers see themselves as balanced. Brutes...bring 'em on. Dominators, Masterminds, Corrupters...I'll fight those guys all day long, win or lose. Stalkers...sorry, the tactics avaialble to stalkers ruin PvP imo. I'm not alone in this opinion. The devs have to decide who's interests are in the best interest of the game. The devs need to look at the big picture with regards to how stalkers affect not only the hero side, but the villiain side as well.
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The only way for a Stalker to do what you described is to time the click juuuuuust right. Or click as fast as possible and hope for the best.
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the second thing you mentioned is actually alot easier then you describe. I do it on my stalker quite often against people with super speed (yes, my stalker is fast enough to run past someone with SS and stop to start clicking on AS till they run by. You can ask the many heroes in Protector's Sirens Call about that. Quickness, sprint, swift, 2-slotted SS will do that)
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Well, obviously, that is what he did. I used a poor choice of words with queue it up. He guessed my route to pass by him, clicked AS as I sped by and I was hit some distance away, since I didn't break LOS. The thing is, you have to do more than just keep moving around. You have to never step within 5 feet of a Stalker that is ready to click the button. It should not matter if you even have Whirlwind going since most have knock protection. You just have to keep moving and break LOS (of an invisible foe) every 3 seconds 
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The only way for a Stalker to do what you described is to time the click juuuuuust right. Or click as fast as possible and hope for the best.
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the second thing you mentioned is actually alot easier then you describe. I do it on my stalker quite often against people with super speed (yes, my stalker is fast enough to run past someone with SS and stop to start clicking on AS till they run by. You can ask the many heroes in Protector's Sirens Call about that. Quickness, sprint, swift, 2-slotted SS will do that)
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Well, obviously, that is what he did. I used a poor choice of words with queue it up. He guessed my route to pass by him, clicked AS as I sped by and I was hit some distance away, since I didn't break LOS. The thing is, you have to do more than just keep moving around. You have to never step within 5 feet of a Stalker that is ready to click the button. It should not matter if you even have Whirlwind going since most have knock protection. You just have to keep moving and break LOS (of an invisible foe) every 3 seconds
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What you are saying is true, if the goal is to never ever get hit. That isnt the goal of the proposed change to AS. The proposed change isnt making it easier for you to escape the Strike, it's only making it easier to escape the instant defeat from the strike.
Someone who keeps moving may not avoid the strike, but (after the strike lands) will have 1% hitpoints and be out of melee range of the Stalker. It opens up a window for that moving squishy to pop a green before the Stalker can close back into melee range to deliver the killing blow. In the case of Spines, correct me if I am wrong, but doesnt the heal of a health insp happen immediately whereas the damage from a ranged spines attack doesnt land until the animation ends? So, even in the case of a ranged follow up attack, the target still should have a very short moment to react and attempt to heal.
Buffy, you seem to be asking that the Developers change Assasin Strike in such a way that a Stalker can never ever use it on a moving target, or a target that moves within the 4 second animation.
I dont believe that this is reasonable.
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Um.. don't know about multiple posting or what not, but thanks, I had missed the death knell from States.
Gee, why be a stalker when you can 2-shot just as well and probably a lot safer, with almost as much stealth with a /DA brute?
Thanks States.
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A Stalker can drop someone faster than they can react. Can a Brute do that?
Remember, unless your opponent has exactly 100% hp you can still one-shot them. How often do we all take a few points of falling damage...
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Um.. don't know about multiple posting or what not, but thanks, I had missed the death knell from States.
Gee, why be a stalker when you can 2-shot just as well and probably a lot safer, with almost as much stealth with a /DA brute?
Thanks States.
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A Stalker can drop someone faster than they can react. Can a Brute do that?
Remember, unless your opponent has exactly 100% hp you can still one-shot them. How often do we all take a few points of falling damage...
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Nope, a brute can't... but a Blaster CAN. And they can kill you even if you manage to start running away.
"Through Avarice evil smiles; through insanity it sings"
Forum Troll Rule #1: Anyone who disagrees with my point of view is either a fanboy or an idiot.
I'm a proud carebear.
*coughBroadswordcough*
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Buffy, you seem to be asking that the Developers change Assasin Strike in such a way that a Stalker can never ever use it on a moving target, or a target that moves within the 4 second animation.
I dont believe that this is reasonable.
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Actually, I haven't asked for one thing from anyone except the Stalkers who like to kill you without risk to themselves. I would like them to consider not doing that. Some of the good ones say they don't. The others say they don't have anything else they can do. I don't believe them.
If you look at all my posts, they have been fact finding about the Stalkers AT (I do complain about the no-risk deaths ). If the people who played them didn't abuse their power, nobody would complain. Well, some would anyway
I haven't asked the devs to do anything. I did send the one bug in when I got more damage in one-shot than I had hit points. That seemed like a design implementation bug to me, considering it wasn't an archevillian or Hamidon himself. I think my level 50 Scrapper was only one-shot once, and that was from the Psy Clockwork King's alpha-strike (no protection against psionic damage). I got revenge using Phase-Shift for the alpha. Hamidon himself couldn't one-shot me
Oh, I remember a Blaster one time saying he got one-shot by a burning building explosing... something like 150 thousand plus points of damage...
Edit: this is what I have learned so far:
Stalkers get the defense and status-effect protection of a Scrapper (resistance cap of 75% was the same for all but Tankers and Kheldians on the hero side, unless they changed that), 90% of the damage of a Blaster, and Controller and Defender's hit points. They got a reduced Build Up (80% instead of 100%), no Aim, Placate (Placated foe can't target you for a short time), Hide (-500 feet perception) and AS (moderate damage + unresistable critical when hidden which appears to be about base X 7 damage).
I also learned it takes Tactics + 2 of the lower accuracy inspirations to see a Stalker with Hide + Stealth (unless you have something like Targeting Drone or Focused Senses).
And finally I learned about the Line of Site (LOS). You have 4 seconds from the point you hear Build Up (if you hear it) to break LOS. And, you can get AS'd if passing within 5 feet of a Stalker, no matter what speed if you don't break LOS.
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Buffy, you seem to be asking that the Developers change Assasin Strike in such a way that a Stalker can never ever use it on a moving target, or a target that moves within the 4 second animation.
I dont believe that this is reasonable.
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Actually, I haven't asked for one thing from anyone except the Stalkers who like to kill you without risk to themselves. I would like them to consider not doing that. Some of the good ones say they don't. The others say they don't have anything else they can do. I don't believe them.
If you look at all my posts, they have been fact finding about the Stalkers AT (I do complain about the no-risk deaths ). If the people who played them didn't abuse their power, nobody would complain. Well, some would anyway
I haven't asked the devs to do anything. I did send the one bug in when I got more damage in one-shot than I had hit points. That seemed like a design implementation bug to me, considering it wasn't an archevillian or Hamidon himself. I think my level 50 Scrapper was only one-shot once, and that was from the Psy Clockwork King's alpha-strike (no protection against psionic damage). I got revenge using Phase-Shift for the alpha. Hamidon himself couldn't one-shot me
Oh, I remember a Blaster one time saying he got one-shot by a burning building explosing... something like 150 thousand plus points of damage...
Edit: this is what I have learned so far:
Stalkers get the defense and status-effect protection of a Scrapper (resistance cap of 75% was the same for all but Tankers and Kheldians on the hero side, unless they changed that), 90% of the damage of a Blaster, and Controller and Defender's hit points. They got a reduced Build Up (80% instead of 100%), no Aim, Placate (Placated foe can't target you for a short time), Hide (-500 feet perception) and AS (moderate damage + unresistable critical when hidden which appears to be about base X 7 damage).
I also learned it takes Tactics + 2 of the lower accuracy inspirations to see a Stalker with Hide + Stealth (unless you have something like Targeting Drone or Focused Senses).
And finally I learned about the Line of Site (LOS). You have 4 seconds from the point you hear Build Up (if you hear it) to break LOS. And, you can get AS'd if passing within 5 feet of a Stalker, no matter what speed if you don't break LOS.
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some day you will realize that stalkers are assassins, and what good is an assassin that has to hit their target more then once, have you watched the movie The Matador about the old timer assassin that was getting soft and missed his target and his boss wanted him wacked, well Lord Recluse is my boss and im not getting on his bad side!
Marine snipers are trained to kill their targets in one shot from far away then disappear.(back in the day a sniper with one target would be given one canteen of water, 5 .50 cal bullets, a little bit of food, a 20 mile crawl and 3-7 days alone(sometimes with a spotter) in the middle of the jungle, if he missed his first shot he was usually screwed)
Marine Corps motto, one of many: one shot one KILL!! the devs made us, were perfecting it, and people are complaining, its ok to change it a bit but dont hurt us without helping us at the same time.
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Marine snipers are trained to kill their targets in one shot from far away then disappear.(back in the day a sniper with one target would be given one canteen of water, 5 .50 cal bullets, a little bit of food, a 20 mile crawl and 3-7 days alone(sometimes with a spotter) in the middle of the jungle, if he missed his first shot he was usually screwed)
Marine Corps motto, one of many: one shot one KILL!!
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Not to defend the anti-Stalkers, but... do you think it's any fun for the target? =P
nope its not ment to be fun, only the strong survive, i believe in the food chain, and survival of the fittest and in this game if you dont plan your build around fighting the lion you will become the zebra.
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nope its not ment to be fun, only the strong survive, i believe in the food chain, and survival of the fittest and in this game if you dont plan your build around fighting the lion you will become the zebra.
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As Albel Nox would say "Only the strong survive. That's the law of the jungle." And he's right. That's the law of the jungle, not a game.
well when the devs put lions into the game, those that dont transform into lions cannot compete in the concrete jungle of our pvp zones. the way i see it were the new lions for this game and only other lions = specific pvp builds and AT's can be lions, the rest are lucky to be part of the herd and feed upon last. i know a lot of AT's that can kill me the same that i can kill them AS or not, and i know others that will never kill me because im a lion.
I'm more of... a person. I can't compete, hand-to-hand, with a lion... but I will find a way to take down that lion. I've yet to change any of my character concept builds to PVP-specific builds and I do just fine. It's all a matter of knowing your opponent.
ahh a meta-gamer, you are the people im trying to stop in this game, the spys, cheaters, and well the game itself is helping you, note the bottom of my sig, remove all powers info from pvp zones its cheap, hence without that info you wont know any of your opponents and the lions will feast upon you.
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ahh a meta-gamer, you are the people im trying to stop in this game, the spys, cheaters, and well the game itself is helping you, note the bottom of my sig, remove all powers info from pvp zones its cheap, hence without that info you wont know any of your opponents and the lions will feast upon you.
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Uhhh... what? Someone explain what a "meta-gamer" is, first. Forgive me for not knowing what the hell this means.
As for the other point: Once again, you open your mouth without thinking. If people were to remove Info from PVP Zones, then it wouldn't change anything. I observe my targets. All powers have a visual effect and while I don't know ALL THE POWERS IN THE GAME, I know what a good deal of them do. So, what does the info thing have to do with anything?
Yes, I'm a spy. I gather info on characters quite often. No, I'm not a cheater. I don't have anything that any other player can't have. Yes, I'm cheap. I Disorient, Knockback, and Immobilize enemies so that they can't fight back.
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well when the devs put lions into the game, those that dont transform into lions cannot compete in the concrete jungle of our pvp zones. the way i see it were the new lions for this game and only other lions = specific pvp builds and AT's can be lions, the rest are lucky to be part of the herd and feed upon last. i know a lot of AT's that can kill me the same that i can kill them AS or not, and i know others that will never kill me because im a lion.
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Winner of the Unintentionally Amusing Post of the Week Award.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Marine snipers are trained to kill their targets in one shot from far away then disappear.(
[/ QUOTE ] Sure, I'll buy that for a dollar. Now ask yourself how many people would pay $15 a month to be in a war where Marine snipers where allowed to fight?
None.
What happens in real life...and what happens in a game where Cryptic needs people to enjoy it to stay in business, are two separate matters.
Stalkers, they way they are currently, are a self-defeating addition to PvP. Stalkers may be fun to play...but they are fun to play because there are victims. If no one wants to PvP because of Stalkers...then there is no point in having stalkers in PvP.
The issue in this game is more complicated. Cryptic can ignore the problems caused by stalkers in PvP because the game is primarily PvE revenue. They can wave their hand and say PvP isn't balanced for 1v1...never mind that Stalkers have the advantage 1v1 in like 95% of the situations...
But ask yourself..if your objective is to produce a game that people love playing...could PvP be more enjoyable to a LOT more people if they reworked the Stalker situation?
If PvP was a LOT more enjoyable to a lot more people, do you think CoX would make more money?
I understand that "fixing" the stalker situation is not simple.
actually their was a prob with participation in pvp before stalkers so its not the fact that stalkers are around thats causing a drop in pvp activity
its the fact that you run into alot of trash talkers and ego buffed personalities and since pvp is a side portion of this game if someone doesnt want to put up with that kind of behavior they dont have to
in my defense no squishy can ever say to me that i was cheap since my stalker is just running around with just hide in sc so if they dont even want to take even the smallest forms of defensive manuevers well thats just their prob at that point
in another note my scrapper will miss being oneshotted also wouldnt it be cool if the new avilon were a bounty hunter type AT
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Actually, I haven't asked for one thing from anyone except the Stalkers who like to kill you without risk to themselves.
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Right here is the crux... The first line of your response to my post...
You think that Stalkers put themselves at no risk when they try to AS you...
Never mind the fact that Clear Minds fly around the PvP zones like crazy these days....
Never mind the fact that Tactics is a very popular power of heroes in the PvP zones...
Never mind that any Hero can buy IR Goggles in Sirens call when the Heroes have control, which is still most of the time on most servers...
Never mind that there are a number of Auto-Hit auras that WILL foil stalkers attacks from hide 100% of the time....
Never mind that with the coming change, all you have to do is to keep moving to absolutely INSURE that you will have at least an opportunity to pop a green after an AS...
You know Buffy... I'll leave it at that, others can continue it if they like...
You claim that you havent asked for a nerf to Stalkers... My question to you is what exactly has been your goal in the fairly recent and numerous (and often ill-informed) posts that you have been making, if not to ask for a Stalker nerf?
You had a lot of credibility on these boards, due to your reputation as a hard core number cruncher, but all I have seen from you on this issue is emotion based nerf herding....
Too often do we see the words, "It isnt fun" or whatever opinionated expression is the favorite of the day...
Go back to running honest numbers Buffy... Do that with impartiality and you might actually convince some of us... But right now, your posts read a lot like nerf herding whining... Sorry. 
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but all I have seen from you on this issue is emotion based nerf herding....
Too often do we see the words, "It isnt fun" or whatever opinionated expression is the favorite of the day...
[/ QUOTE ] That's exactly what this issue is about. Stalkers refuse to accept that as valid...but it's entirely valid. Not only from a general game playing perspective but from the devs own explicitly espoused game design philosophy. The devs spent months on the Skills System and then trashed it because States said it wasn't "fun." No math, no analysis, simple emotion. Fighting stalkers is by and large not fun for the vast majority of people. You need to accept that. Getting blind-sided by an entire AT that can repeatedly AS you from invisibility, is not fun. No math is needed to prove that.
You can point to a lot of specific things that might help against that situation, but a solo Defender/Controller will never see a solo stalker with Hide + Stealth active without constantly using Insights, or hoping IR gogles will last long enough in Warburg to justify the effort to get them..assuming the heroes are even winning in Siren's. Stealth can be had a level 6.
More importantly, it's irrelevant whether stalkers can be killed. It is irrelevant whether you or anyone else thinks they are "balanced." If Statesman can trash the entire skill system because it isn't "fun," then I'd like to see an explaination of how getting AS'd by invisible targets with auto-hitting placate is fun for anyone but the stalkers.
The problem is that on paper...it's not so bad. In practice the system is broken. Stalkers flood PvP because they have an overwhelming advantage. You know it...and I know it. If the people that play stalkers are so "skilled at PvP" then let's see them do the same thing with Dominators. Yeah...I didn't think so.
Regardless....the question of whether people enjoy fighting stalkers is the important question at this point. We already know people enjoy playing them.
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but a solo Defender/Controller will never see a solo stalker with Hide + Stealth active
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No, this is the problem! We have been told over and over and over that PvP is NOT balanced for 1vs1 play, and yet this is what it ALWAYS comes down to... What a Stalker can do SOLO vs what [Insert Squishy Here] can do SOLO...
The game IS NOT balanced for solo play, and IT WILL be broken when you look at it from a 1vs1 perspective!
Sure a solo Stalker will completely own a solo Defender... Look at what happens in teams though... Got news for you, heroes working AS A TEAM completely destroy Stalkers, unless the Stalkers also have A TEAM, then things get a bit muddier... Muddy is exactly what we call balance!
For christs sake! Why cant everyone get off this "X AT can do this Solo and Y AT cant" kick! It isnt the point!
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he already had it queued up.
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Sorry Buffy, you're wrong.
You cant do this with an AS, it works like a snipe, If the range check or endurance check fails the attack interrupts. The only way for a Stalker to do what you described is to time the click juuuuuust right. Or click as fast as possible and hope for the best.
Buffy, with due respect, I'd like to also suggest that you might be better off if you would roll up a Stalker and experience from the other side.