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Heh, I'm sure they do. The point is, they die more often than Stalkers, or are you going to tell me that isn't true, too?
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The kill ratio of stalkers is more aligned with blasters while death ratio is similar to scrappers. unless +perception is heavy then most stalkers go down as fast as MMs. =)
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I wouldn't say as fast as MMs. MMs have less HP, no mez protection, and very little defense for themselves.
To my blaster (ice/fire), an MM is two shots with Aim and Buildup. A stalker is 4.
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Explain why a stalker takes twice as many shots to kill when they have very similar hp to a MM... Please don't say defense is an issue when you just hit aim and bu for a +150% (well over 200% if slotted with THBs) to hit buff (although depending on the MM's spec they may have significantly better defense than a stalker. And what does status protection have to do with anything when you're trying to blast someone to death in as few shots as possible?
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Well for one, they don't have similar HP to an MM. They actually have THE SAME AMOUNT OF HP AS A CONTROLLER, DEFENDER, CORRUPTOR, AND DOMINATOR. Why do people keep thinking they have less HP than everyone else???!!! They don't!
Besides that, some of the sets (I know at least regen and ninjitsu have one, not sure about energy aura) have a Dull Pain equivalent that gives them much more HP, near un-buffed scrapper levels.
The only time I two-shot a stalker with my blaster was when he made the mistake of not killing me after AS brought me down to about 5% health. Defiance tore him to shreds.
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Besides that, some of the sets (I know at least regen and ninjitsu have one, not sure about energy aura) have a Dull Pain equivalent that gives them much more HP, near un-buffed scrapper levels.
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Dull Pain is only available to Regen and I'm not even going to talk about how gimp that set is as a stalker secondary.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
Ninjitsu also has a version of it, I'm very sure. It's got some crazy name, but it's there.
Nope, they have a self heal that is similar to Reconstruction.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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Heh, I'm sure they do. The point is, they die more often than Stalkers, or are you going to tell me that isn't true, too?
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The kill ratio of stalkers is more aligned with blasters while death ratio is similar to scrappers. unless +perception is heavy then most stalkers go down as fast as MMs. =)
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I wouldn't say as fast as MMs. MMs have less HP, no mez protection, and very little defense for themselves.
To my blaster (ice/fire), an MM is two shots with Aim and Buildup. A stalker is 4.
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Explain why a stalker takes twice as many shots to kill when they have very similar hp to a MM... Please don't say defense is an issue when you just hit aim and bu for a +150% (well over 200% if slotted with THBs) to hit buff (although depending on the MM's spec they may have significantly better defense than a stalker. And what does status protection have to do with anything when you're trying to blast someone to death in as few shots as possible?
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Well for one, they don't have similar HP to an MM. They actually have THE SAME AMOUNT OF HP AS A CONTROLLER, DEFENDER, CORRUPTOR, AND DOMINATOR. Why do people keep thinking they have less HP than everyone else???!!! They don't!
Besides that, some of the sets (I know at least regen and ninjitsu have one, not sure about energy aura) have a Dull Pain equivalent that gives them much more HP, near un-buffed scrapper levels.
The only time I two-shot a stalker with my blaster was when he made the mistake of not killing me after AS brought me down to about 5% health. Defiance tore him to shreds.
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I said similar...as in not exactly the same but close. And actually, my dear evolutionary throwback, corruptors have more hp than all the others you mentioned, but less than blasters. the point of my post was to say that stalkers don't have double the hp of a MM...they are actually within about 10% of eachother. Why are you trying to say it takes twice as many hits to kill a stalker? That's just crap.
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[Dull Pain is only available to Regen and I'm not even going to talk about how gimp that set is as a stalker secondary.
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I'll wager that regen doesn't seem so gimp to folks once I7 comes out and half the heroes are running around with focused senses that blow through defensive secondaries.
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A player villain stopped by to observe this marvel of a tiny little Controller unscathed in the middle of certain death for many ATs. I hit them with BoI to warn them to keep away, then went back to slowly taking out the boss, while everything flopped around me.
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Man, I hate when people do that to me. If I'm just watching and someone attacks me? That's an invitation to kill. Sometimes, I'll even turn off Hide, so that they see me. They take that as: OMG A STALKKUR I MUS KILL IT. Nevermind the fact that they may already have their hands full.
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Yeah, it probably wasn't smart to do, but I wanted them to know I did see them and that if they do attack, they could be vulnerable to being held as I flee. I was in for a long fight with these npcs.
A Corrupter did manage to come by and debuff me. The only way I knew it had happened was that I was suddenly dead 
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Suddenly, a Stalker trying to AS me appeared behind me. He/she is slowed slightly by Ice Slick and starts back peddling. I hit him/her with Shiver and he/she is slowed to a crawl. Now, there is not anyway I can kill this Stalker with my BoI. I hit him/her once with it anyway and now he/she is probably floored -slow. He/she backs right into a group of hero NPCs who killed him/her. Now, that was crazy.
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Silly Stalkers and their idiocy. ^_^
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I think I have mentioned several times in this thread that the melee Villains on the Justice server are not the brightest bunch. Who doesn't know to stay out of the GGG (green glow of goodness)?
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Heh, I'm sure they do. The point is, they die more often than Stalkers, or are you going to tell me that isn't true, too?
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The kill ratio of stalkers is more aligned with blasters while death ratio is similar to scrappers. unless +perception is heavy then most stalkers go down as fast as MMs. =)
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I wouldn't say as fast as MMs. MMs have less HP, no mez protection, and very little defense for themselves.
To my blaster (ice/fire), an MM is two shots with Aim and Buildup. A stalker is 4.
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Explain why a stalker takes twice as many shots to kill when they have very similar hp to a MM... Please don't say defense is an issue when you just hit aim and bu for a +150% (well over 200% if slotted with THBs) to hit buff (although depending on the MM's spec they may have significantly better defense than a stalker. And what does status protection have to do with anything when you're trying to blast someone to death in as few shots as possible?
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Well for one, they don't have similar HP to an MM. They actually have THE SAME AMOUNT OF HP AS A CONTROLLER, DEFENDER, CORRUPTOR, AND DOMINATOR. Why do people keep thinking they have less HP than everyone else???!!! They don't!
Besides that, some of the sets (I know at least regen and ninjitsu have one, not sure about energy aura) have a Dull Pain equivalent that gives them much more HP, near un-buffed scrapper levels.
The only time I two-shot a stalker with my blaster was when he made the mistake of not killing me after AS brought me down to about 5% health. Defiance tore him to shreds.
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I said similar...as in not exactly the same but close. And actually, my dear evolutionary throwback, corruptors have more hp than all the others you mentioned, but less than blasters. the point of my post was to say that stalkers don't have double the hp of a MM...they are actually within about 10% of eachother. Why are you trying to say it takes twice as many hits to kill a stalker? That's just crap.
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You're assuming all my powers do the same damage.
With Aim and Buildup, Bitter Ice Blast + Ice Blast will kill an MM.
Adding Ice Bolt onto that usually isn't enough to defeat a stalker unless I've got some defiance. I usually have to resort to using Frost Breath to finish them off.
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Ninjitsu also has a version of it, I'm very sure. It's got some crazy name, but it's there.
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Ninjitsu only has a self-heal. EA's final defensive power has a Dull Pain-like function to it, I'm fairly sure.
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Ninjitsu also has a version of it, I'm very sure. It's got some crazy name, but it's there.
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Ninjitsu only has a self-heal. EA's final defensive power has a Dull Pain-like function to it, I'm fairly sure.
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Well that makes me hate Ninjitsu stalkers a bit less, although I'll never be able to forgive them for the fear protection.
A Stalker has the same hit points as my Controller. The only way I have the same defense of that Stalker is if he lets me put Radiation Infection on him. Even then, when he does hit me, it is going to hurt far worse than when my Block of Ice or Brawl hits him. They are my only offense
I could put Enervating Field on him, too. That would just lower his damage a bit. Still, I have no chance, even if I get containment every now and then. The biggest number I have seen from Containment on my BoI against an NPC was 60+60 damage (with 3 SO Damage Enhancers). I can do that every 6 seconds, I think. Mostly, it is 60 pts damage against a foe with zero defense, zero resistance and status-effect protection.
Edit: now give me my Jack Frost 
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A Stalker has the same hit points as my Controller. The only way I have the same defense or greater than that Stalker is if he lets me put Radiation Infection on him. Even then, when he does hit me, it is going to hurt far worse than when my Block of Ice or Brawl hits him. They are my only offense
I could put Enervating Field on him, too. That would just lower his damage a bit. Still, I have no chance, even if I get containment every now and then. The biggest number I have seen from Containment on my BoI against an NPC was 60+60 damage (with 3 SO Damage Enhancers). I can do that every 6 seconds, I think. Mostly, it is 60 pts damage against a foe with zero defense, zero resistance and status-effect protection.
Edit: now give me my Jack Frost
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Your jack frost is ready and waiting for you in Warburg and the new PvP area once I-7 hits. When I said the same defense as a stalker depending on spec, I was referring to the opportunity you have to spec in FF or others that give +def or tohit debuffs to your enemy.
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I am hoping Issue 7 brings a free respec. I want to enable my toons for PVP. It is kind of crazy to have to respec out of my favorite powers in PVE just so I can prevent one attack from one AT. Since I have pretty much quit playing PVE, I don't mind so much.
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It would be rather nice if the devs somehow engineered the game so that you could have a PvE build, and a PvP build that you could swap to in a PvP zone as easily, as a costume swap..especially considering how very different many AT's need to be between the two.
-Sandolphan
"When heroes fail, the Angels will save you."
MASTERMIND NUMERIC KEYPAD PET CONTROLS
HAMIDON NUKE RAID GUIDE
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It just made no sense to me that I could take that much damage in 1-shot from an opponent I never saw.
[/ QUOTE ] IMO, this is the fundamental issue. It really isn't taking that much damage...it really isn't the inability to see an opponent, it's the combination of those two things that players don't find "fun."
The question then turns on what length the devs expect players to go to, to see stalkers. Creating a situation where one side is forced to team and the other is not...is a position I do not agree with, nor is it consistent with any other philosophy or design promulgated by the game. In addition, forcing one side to team creates cascade problems. As someone pointed out, forcing every hero to stack perception, and most likely Tactics, means that +DEF based powers become less effective on average. It means that having just Stealth as a non-stalker becomes worthless on average.
There is no other AT..and I mean the entire AT, every set in the entire AT, which forces the other side into dramatic build changes like stalkers do. There is nothing unique about blasters that forces the villians to choose powers or builds simply to survive in PvP like all heroes do. Controllers are not the only ones with holds. Every AT has a status effect power that you need a break-free to counter. Every AT does not have the ability to stack Hide + Stealth without aide. Every AT does not have a single attack that is 7/8's unresisted damage that also knocks off two toggles.
I'm sure stalkers have more defeates in PvP than dominators...but that's not disproving anything. The point that Buffy makes...and that I emphatically agree with is that stacked Inviso+Massive Damage = Not Fun...unless you are the one doing it.
It might be fun once...or twice...but this a good 70%-90% of what PvP has boiled down to...avoiding stalkers. PvP could be so much more and so much richer. I can't see how letting stalker completely dominate PvP makes any financial sense.
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Honestly, I find people are grossly exxagerating what sort of effect Stalkers are having in PvP relative to other ATs. Before Stalkers were popping up abruptly in PvP and killing my Controller within a few seconds thereafter, Scrappers and 'Blappers' were...with impunity. The fact that Stalkers were more difficult to actually see was, while disconcerting, largely inconsequential to how often they got me versus other ATs. In fact, if anything, they were consistently easier to avoid because they were both easier to kill as well as easier to avoid due to their greater dependence on a single, interruptable, melee range attack.
I'm not saying no change in PvP is warranted. I gravitate towards difficult targets in PvP, so the changes are largely inconsequential to me since my targets were, at best, two shots and more likely three+ shots unless I had some reds to spare. I can sympathise with being concerned about Stalker kills, but I really can't sympathise with the bickering over how incredibly game breaking Stalkers are and how they have this unprecedented level of ganking dominance in PvP, and this is speaking from both sides of the equation.
I'm really glad this isn't affecting NPCs, though, as the so-called 'one shot' is pretty integral to me being able to handle multiple villains when I solo in a quasi-efficient manner (quasi because it's still more in bursts than sustained kill rate, but it at least works satisfactorily currently).
All the people suggesting that PvP will be fair now that you'll have 1% of hitpoints instead of being dead outright are smoking something real good. And I want some.
OK, look at it like this:
My Corruptor has about 730 hp at 32 (somewhere in that range +/- 10 hp). The will leave me, from full, assuming that the AS would have otherwise killed me, with 7.3 hp (+/- 1 hp).
Is there a single stalker attack that does less than 7.3 hp? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Naw, I thought not.
So, instead of one shotting all the people that could previously have been one-shotted we've now forced stalkers to follow up with brawl. Yeah, that'll make it pretty fair alright.
Look people, PvP isn't about fair, it's about winning. Stalkers win for the most part because they determine when they strike. There are very few ATs who can stack enough perception to see through Hide and Stealth (and let's face it, only the lowest level stalkers or those playing concept toons don' t have both). Thus you'll still be able to set up the hit when you like and hit from an angle that will make retaliation before that follow up brawl to be just as unlikely as retaliation from an actual corpse.
Nothing changes except that now you have to hit with a second attack. Unless you are hitting someone in the middle of their team you will still get just as many kills. And even from within the middle of the team they still have to hit you before you run and catch once you do.
Could someone please tell me how having 1% of your total hp left over really changes the substance of the assassin strike (or snipe, or headsplitter, or any other power that can do enough damage to one shot someone in PvP)? This isn't a rhetorical question: if someone has a good scenario (a likely scenario) wherein having to follow up immediate a second later with brawl would be bad I'd like to hear it.
*sigh*
What happens if you are constantly moving and suddenly find yourself with a mere 7 hit points? If you were really moving, there IS NO follow up attack... The only possible way for a follow up attack is if you stop in one place (for whatever reason) and STAY in the SAME spot through the Assasin Strike Animation... MOVE at ANY time during the Assasin Strike animation and the follow up WILL NOT hit you....
Gee, that was so hard to understand...
So, with the new system, will you be immune to Stalkers? Duh... NO! And you SHOULDNT be! Will you get one shot by any AT? NO!
Will you get 2 Shot if you arent moving around? OH YEAH! And guess what, you'll be getting two shot by Blasters and Scrappers and EM Tankers blah blah blah...
Time to click the noggin on, especially if you have any desire at all to play in Warburg or beyond...
I only read the few pages of the original thread but as a stalker I thought what State's said was rather funny, and easy to work around, just team with a dominator and have them immobilize or hold an enemy, that drops them below 100% hp and keeps them still, then stalker walks up and uses AS. Not considered a 1 shot, but safer for the stalker as it takes a moment or two for the victim to trigger a breakfree insp.
Sorry if anyone else brought that up, just didnt feel like digging through all the posts on the subject.
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There's your built-in advantages/disadvantages. Is there something I'm not seeing? Stalkers have mez protection due to the risk that comes with being in melee range. Blasters do not, because they do not have to be near the target to pose a threat. The only time a decent Blaster is in any real danger is against another ranged opponent, unless they stop moving and leave themselves open to a melee attack.
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Exactly. So you acknowledge that the Blapper playstyle incurs great risk, without status protection? Finally. 
From what I've seen, a Blaster, by himself, isn't going to be killing much of anybody with ranged attacks alone in PvP. If you're an Ice blaster, and you can mez a squishy from range, then yeah. Otherwise, I don't see it. Their ranged attacks just aren't that good generally speaking.
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Well a ice blaster can kill a squishy in 3 ranged shots after using buildup and aim. Seems pretty good to me.
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A player villain stopped by to observe this marvel of a tiny little Controller unscathed in the middle of certain death for many ATs. I hit them with BoI to warn them to keep away, then went back to slowly taking out the boss, while everything flopped around me.
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Man, I hate when people do that to me. If I'm just watching and someone attacks me? That's an invitation to kill. Sometimes, I'll even turn off Hide, so that they see me. They take that as: OMG A STALKKUR I MUS KILL IT. Nevermind the fact that they may already have their hands full.
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Suddenly, a Stalker trying to AS me appeared behind me. He/she is slowed slightly by Ice Slick and starts back peddling. I hit him/her with Shiver and he/she is slowed to a crawl. Now, there is not anyway I can kill this Stalker with my BoI. I hit him/her once with it anyway and now he/she is probably floored -slow. He/she backs right into a group of hero NPCs who killed him/her. Now, that was crazy.
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Silly Stalkers and their idiocy. ^_^