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Assassin strike at level 50 vs a target with no resists at all, at the damage cap:
Base: 250.24
Critical: 1501.47
Total: 1751.71 hp in one hit.
Level 50 Stalker has 1017.1 hp.
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thanks for the news, wow were gonna be one shotted by scrappers then, seems all these nerfs and no love in the health department. guess we'll all have to go kamikaze after level 50 cause those hp's are gonna make us dead real quick.
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Actually, this is good news to stalkers - he's saying that a Stalker can still do more damage in one hit than a Scrapper has HP. Of course that's assuming zero resists (regen), and w/ the one shot changes going in, it means that you can *only* reduce a regen scrapper to 1% health in one hit.
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I find it amusing that SR isn't even considered. =P
But back on topic, I think this just encourages stalkers even more to follow specific builds and learn how to use them the best they can and, you know, come up with a strategy or something.
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"What?! What "Hmmm?" Those are not "Hmmm" odds!" - Zeke, CAD
"Not only will a loss seal your fate, but also the fate of the one you are protecting as well." � Himura Kenshin, Rurouni Kenshin
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if you can AS me with my DP on and get me to 1% I'll buy you a beer. Since DP gets my regen to 2333 with Portal Jockey and FPR badges
[/ QUOTE ]How about they just watch your health bar for DP to drop and then kill you?
Nevertheless, I am curious how Caltrops will not be used as a work around. Trops don't break Hide. Drop trops..wait for the first tick of damage...BAM! You've just circumvented the change by doing 1 HP of damage with power that prevents your target from getting away while you set up AS.
hmmm 1% HP only means 1 HP against som1 with 100 HP total, guess it wouldnt work =/
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I find it amusing that SR isn't even considered. =P
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<;.;> I don't <runs away crying> <T.T> <--- SR scrapper
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hmmm 1% HP only means 1 HP against som1 with 100 HP total, guess it wouldnt work =/
[/ QUOTE ] lol...umm no. The changes only protect you from being one-shotted if you have 100% of your hit points..not if you have 99.999999% of your hit points. One tick of caltrop damage means you can be insta-killed.
You've misunderstood the implications of what I wrote.
ohhh ic, sry then lol, either way this 1 shotting thingie will help stalkers more than others XD
lets not forget we have squishy HP as well lol ^^
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if you can AS me with my DP on and get me to 1% I'll buy you a beer. Since DP gets my regen to 2333 with Portal Jockey and FPR badges
[/ QUOTE ]How about they just watch your health bar for DP to drop and then kill you?
Nevertheless, I am curious how Caltrops will not be used as a work around. Trops don't break Hide. Drop trops..wait for the first tick of damage...BAM! You've just circumvented the change by doing 1 HP of damage with power that prevents your target from getting away while you set up AS.
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I'm curious about this - I have read that Ninjitsu caltrops do not have a -fly/-jump component, and the break hide if they do damage. My stalker isn't high enough to try them out yet. Anyone who has tested able to confirm/deny this?
No caltrops have a -fly, last I checked.
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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I'm curious about this - I have read that Ninjitsu caltrops do not have a -fly/-jump component, and the break hide if they do damage. My stalker isn't high enough to try them out yet. Anyone who has tested able to confirm/deny this?
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Caltrops do not break hide, either to throw them, or when they do damage. They DO make mobs attack you, after the mob has been damaged by them, even if you are hidden, but they do not actually break your hide status. (This is because mobs don't need to "see" you after they're mad at you, and will chase you even if you are completely invis.)
I can't believe I read the entire thread. 
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I'm curious about this - I have read that Ninjitsu caltrops do not have a -fly/-jump component, and the break hide if they do damage. My stalker isn't high enough to try them out yet. Anyone who has tested able to confirm/deny this?
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I'm actually glad you asked this. I was teaming with another stalker in SC the other night. He dropped caltrops, and I TP'd. I can say with certainty that there is no -jump to a stalker's caltrops. It was difficult to tell, but I don't think there was -fly either. I say it was difficult because where we were porting to made it unclear whether or not they were using fly or SJ.
Anyway, I'll just have to come up with a different strategy.
On a separate note: I stopped playing my Stalker for a while in an effort to get my Scrapper to 50. A month or so later I resumed playing my Stalker, and found PvP is a lot more challenging. The heroes are much better at defending against Stalkers. Their reflexes are also much quicker once I initiate my attack, be it TP or AS. I have limited time to finish off my victim before the other shoe falls. I really don't see what all the fuss is about. 
People are adapting to stalkers as most of us knew they would. The 100% to 1% rule won't really bother me. I imagine the devs are using this 1% rule to placate the 1% of heroes that complain about stalkers (pun intended).
If you'll notice, it's pretty much the same people complaining over and over again. Give them their 1%. Once their debt piles up due to NPCs finishing them off, they'll just whine about that. When stalkers start grouping together, they'll whine about that. There is just no pleasing some people. These are the same people that get the newest, coolest game, and then can't wait for someone to post the cheatcodes online so they can finish it asap. 
Guess what? Stalkers aren't going anywhere, and they aren't going to be nerfed to the extent that will appease the whiners. Stalkers are an integral part of PvP because the devs want them in there. They aren't going to remove an entire AT from the game, and they aren't going to nerf them to where their concept is ruined. And if that means that a few of you will give up your $15 a month, then so be it. CoX is an awesome game that broke the mold of the fantasy genre (UO, EQ, WOW). Did you pay your monthly fee before PvP?. Of course you did. 
I think any threat to quit the game because you can't adapt enough to enjoy PvP is a completely empty threat.
***I want to mention that I do understand the OP's opinion. I can sympathize even though I disagree that it's a big enough problem to merit a tweak. Doesn't much matter at this point. Apparently the change will be made. As I said, the 1% rule won't bother me. I can adapt.
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I think YOU'RE missing the point in that assasin strike is so powerful your other attacks are moot for the poor schmoe licking asphalt.
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Really? I rarely meet people in PVP who sit still long enough to be ASed, to begin with. I rarely meet people in PVP who can't see me. I rarely meet people in PVP who don't have some sort of anti-AS defenses. If someone falls into all three catagories, then they reserve no right to complain. I not only choose to use everything I have, but I'm almost FORCED to. Unless I can get the person to stay still and NOT attack me, I can't AS them.
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Knowing you've been AS'd and knowing where it came from are not exactly the same thing and again unimportant when you're deciding to go to your SG base or to the hospital for recovery. I've spun the camera around on many occasion trying to spot my assailant and seen nothing or maybe a wisp of an invisible nothing (of course, I suck, but that's another post entirely... ha!).
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Tip: Zoom Out in a PVP zone. You won't have to "spin the camera around.
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I will agree though that a defianced up, hopped up on build up and red pills, blaster who's sniping you while stealthed that fades into the shadows while your still trying to get the license plate of the... well, that stinks too - and stinks equally for the victim - but hey, no danger no excitement right?
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They don't even need reds. Just bump it up to two shots.
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He dropped caltrops, and I TP'd. I can say with certainty that there is no -jump to a stalker's caltrops. It was difficult to tell, but I don't think there was -fly either
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There's no -Fly in a Blaster caltrops, either. I don't know why there would be, since Caltrops aren't floor anchors or anything. ANYHOW! You can easily hover/fly over those at full speed.
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He dropped caltrops, and I TP'd. I can say with certainty that there is no -jump to a stalker's caltrops. It was difficult to tell, but I don't think there was -fly either
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There's no -Fly in a Blaster caltrops, either. I don't know why there would be, since Caltrops aren't floor anchors or anything. ANYHOW! You can easily hover/fly over those at full speed.
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To elaborate, the hero I ported wasn't flying or hovering when I ported him/her. They were on the ground. If they flew away, they had to have activated it after the port. In retrospect, I think it most likely they just jumped off, but I'm not entirely sure they weren't able to fly off. I might test this in the arena when I get a chance.
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If they flew away, they had to have activated it after the port.
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They could easily do so. I get ported into them, all the time, and the best solution is to activate Hover and glide off.
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Assassin strike at level 50 vs a target with no resists at all, at the damage cap:
Base: 250.24
Critical: 1501.47
Total: 1751.71 hp in one hit.
Level 50 Stalker has 1017.1 hp.
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Whoops; +400% damage cap, not 400% damage cap. Still insufficient to one-shot any tank, though, even at the 500% total damage cap. In fact, insufficient to one-shot any regen or invuln scrapper running dull pain also.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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hmmm 1% HP only means 1 HP against som1 with 100 HP total, guess it wouldnt work =/
[/ QUOTE ] lol...umm no. The changes only protect you from being one-shotted if you have 100% of your hit points..not if you have 99.999999% of your hit points. One tick of caltrop damage means you can be insta-killed.
You've misunderstood the implications of what I wrote.
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Technically, you'll have to wait for an interval of time (probably one server tick) before performing the AS; although they haven't said how long that is, I'm assuming that the activation time of AS alone is enough to bypass it, but you never know. Also, they haven't addressed my question about what happens if in a single server tick of time, you have 99.9% health, and you get healed to 100% and hit for 100% within the same server tick: if they go by banking rules, you'll take the damage first and die, if they want to be generous, they might let you heal first and live - in which case the damage level of caltrops might not be enough to truly drop you below 100% under all conditions.
Although, if you have the ability to one-shot with AS (because you have a ton of insps), I don't see why you would ever bother with caltrops instead of just two-shotting the target with a quick followup attack (what stalker attack does less than one percent damage? Unslotted brawl is going to do 18 points of damage at level 50, verses the 14 points of damage that encompass 1% of scrapper health at level 50. About the only thing you can't finish off is a tank, and you can't really one-shot them in the first place).
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
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(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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Really? I rarely meet people in PVP who sit still long enough to be ASed, to begin with. I rarely meet people in PVP who can't see me. I rarely meet people in PVP who don't have some sort of anti-AS defenses. If someone falls into all three catagories, then they reserve no right to complain. I not only choose to use everything I have, but I'm almost FORCED to. Unless I can get the person to stay still and NOT attack me, I can't AS them.
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I can't even talk to my team without having to use Phase Shift to stop and type because of AS. If you have Hide + Stealth nobody outside of double stacked Tactics on teammates will see you, unless popping many yellow pills continuously. My Controllers do not have anti-AS powers. PFF is the closest, yet I have been AS'd inside it. Radiation Infection helps. Both root me and have activation times. I have been AS'd when activating them, and AS'd when I turn them off, yet, I am trying to move around continously (stressfully and sometimes painfully, I might add).
No risk, no challenge tactics are cheap. But, that is my opinion. I had a teammate that set down a stack of trip mines and caltrops, teleported a villian into it and killed him. I told him that was cheap and quit the team. The villian had no chance. I understand that he was just using the tools the devs gave him, and I told him not to take it personally. It is just a cheap tactic. When I see I have someone perma-held, I let them go. It is just my personallity.
Things that need to go away: perma-holds, 1 and 2-shot from melee and range, tp foe into trip mines, invisible foes taking more than half the hp you have left (yes, if you have 10 hp left, a hero/villian that you can't see should only drop you to 5 hp 
- if they become visible and then hit you, it can be full damage). People need to earn their kills, not get them free and cheap. Just my opinion.
Basic Scrapper Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Basic Tanker Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Nobody outside of double-stacked tactics, eh? There are so many ways to see through stacked stealth that don't involve stacked tactics.
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Nobody outside of double-stacked tactics, eh? There are so many ways to see through stacked stealth that don't involve stacked tactics.
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Awesome. Let's get a list going. Here is the link to the perception thread
What single hero without teammates and without using inspirations at level 30 in Siren's Call can see a stalker at greater than 5 feet (AS range)?. So, to clarify:
(1) A solo hero
(2) No inspiration use
(3) Perception >5 feet
(4) Stalker using Hide + Stealth
(5) No buffs from others
Ok, all perception powers in the game are relevant. Targeting Drone, Tactics, Focused Senses, etc.
What combination can overcome level 30 (Siren's Call) Hide + Stealth Stalker's -perception? It doesn't matter the level of the hero, 50 with all Hami-Os qualifies.
Now, list them
Basic Scrapper Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Basic Tanker Info in Issue 7 (draft)
Someone soloing in SC, that doesn't have a method to avoid AS deserves to get a sword/claw/spine/fist in the back. People keep trying to balance the game solo and thats not how it works.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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Someone soloing in SC, that doesn't have a method to avoid AS deserves to get a sword/claw/spine/fist in the back. People keep trying to balance the game solo and thats not how it works.
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Except, that when I go into Siren's Call and can't find a team, I like to go and assist the NPC heros defeat the NPC villians. Of, course, I die to the NPC's all the time (hit the wrong one, aggro too many... lol). I don't want to not be able to play just because of one AT that SC is full of (wonder why?). I guess Stalker's in SC should not be able to toggle on Stealth unless on a team?
I don't know what all levels everything is available since I mostly PvP in Warburg, but here are the hero combos that don't involve stacked tactics that I can think of off the top of my head.
1.) First off, Clear Mind/Clarity can stack by itself to see through anything. This requires a recipient for the Clear Mind buff, but all I said was no stacked tactics...not specifically solo.
2.) DA scrappers with CoD and Tactics
3.) /Devices blasters with Drone and Tactics
4.) SR Scrappers with tactics
5.) Ice tankers with tactics
6-99.) Indirect ways to make stalkers visible or interrupt them if they try to attack you: caltrops, burn, ignite, ice tanker pbae toggle, hot feet, all the rain-type area spells, hurricane, repulsion, repel, and 1000 other powers I get hit by but don't know the name for...and those are just the autohits.
Every single AT has ways to either see a stalker solo or to (by theirself) give a lot of other people the ability to do so. Not every build has this ability, but almost every build can be made to include abilities that will help them to spot, interrupt, or reveal stalkers. The most common misconception about stalkers is that you need to be able to see them from 100 yards away to keep from being AS'd. Just keeping moving will prevent most AS's.
Don't forget IR Goggles. Since Siren's is almost ALWAYS under hero control.
You only need to see them at greater than 5 feet (melee range for most melee attacks - AS is assumed to be 5 feet). So, only my Katana/SR Scrapper, if I do a respec and get Tactics, can see a Hide + Stealth Stalker. Yet, they don't prey on Scrappers like they do Controllers and Defenders in Siren's Call on the Justice Server.
I guess every Blaster has to have Targetting Drone and Tactics (or a teammate). Every Controller and Defender has to have either Tactics plus a teammate with Tactics, or Tactics and a teammate with Clear Mind. Since these are the ones that Stalkers prey upon (no risk to themselves) So, I guess my Controllers are stuck inside the gate looking for the perfect team
No, I just go and play and die to Stalkers and feel sorry for them because they feel like they can't beat me unless they one-shot me... Any real men (or women) out there willing to even try?
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I can't even talk to my team without having to use Phase Shift to stop and type because of AS.
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One of many reasons I TRY not to talk in PVP Zones. I find myself yapping, often, though... =/
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If you have Hide + Stealth nobody outside of double stacked Tactics on teammates will see you, unless popping many yellow pills continuously.
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Unless they happen to be a SR Scrapper with Tactics (and even worse when they get Clear Mind slapped on them). The reason I constantly mention SR Scrappers? Because they're the most annoying of the lot.
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My Controllers do not have anti-AS powers. PFF is the closest, yet I have been AS'd inside it. Radiation Infection helps. Both root me and have activation times. I have been AS'd when activating them, and AS'd when I turn them off, yet, I am trying to move around continously (stressfully and sometimes painfully, I might add).
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Yeah. I can see that being a real problem... but then again, personally hating Radiation Infection, I don't pity you. >D But it's okay! I understand your frustration. That's why I don't kill squishies. They're practically AS Bait on their own.
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No risk, no challenge tactics are cheap. But, that is my opinion. I had a teammate that set down a stack of trip mines and caltrops, teleported a villian into it and killed him. I told him that was cheap and quit the team. The villian had no chance. I understand that he was just using the tools the devs gave him, and I told him not to take it personally. It is just a cheap tactic.
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I love when Blasters do that to me, considering that it rarely works. Anything short of 5 mines can't kill my Stalker... but I'd have to say it's a safer bet to use 8 mines, since they miss, rather commonly. If the Blaster doesn't kill me, they find themselves in a rather poor position. *cackles*
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When I see I have someone perma-held, I let them go. It is just my personallity.
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You're not the only one. I'd feel bad, too. I always give my targets a fighting chance (and give squishies the chance to ignore my presence and run). If they don't take that chance, then they've no reason to complain (unless they were typing... in which I give them a chance to redeem themselves).
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Things that need to go away: perma-holds, 1 and 2-shot from melee and range, tp foe into trip mines, invisible foes taking more than half the hp you have left (yes, if you have 10 hp left, a hero/villian that you can't see should only drop you to 5 hp - if they become visible and then hit you, it can be full damage). People need to earn their kills, not get them free and cheap. Just my opinion.
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I don't so much mind getting 2-shotted at melee (though, it IS annoying, at times). It's the "from range" bit that truly agitates me. I have no chance to return fire. Ever. People say they have no warnings when it comes to AS... to which I say: Stick to the water, if you don't have +Perception. Sure, it may not be fun to do so CONSTANTLY, but at least you'll at least know they're there.
The half-hp from invisible enemies? Good concept... sorta. I'd agree to it not being able to deal more than half your max hp, but half your current hp? That's a bit much. I become Hidden for the sole purpose of critting. Not ASing. So, if I can only hit them for as much as half their current hp, then it leaves me in a very difficult position, when finishing people off (which I often do with criticals). With the Half Max Hp thing, it'd save squishies (and tankers? rofl... yeah. I still don't believe the whole 1-shotting a Lv50 Tanker thing that guy was trying to feed us). I'm all for saving squishies (since they can't really do much more than spoil a victory by healing someone), since they're usually the ones doing the complaining (on Freedom, at least).
if you can AS me with my DP on and get me to 1% I'll buy you a beer. Since DP gets my regen to 2333 with Portal Jockey and FPR badges