RachelRiley

_Castle_

I've played numerous blasters, even a Fire/Fire to 50. I find it hilarious to read all the "yay!" and "WooT!, some blaster love" that was inspired by your post.

If you havent figured it out yet, there are quite a few of us who are tired of the same old song and dance with nothing ever produced.

Do I expect you to tell us exactly what you are planning? Not really, we know that things change and all that. But on the flip side, the ever popular trade marked "soon" has worn pretty darn thin by now.

At some point, you guys are actually going to have to put blasters at the top of the priority list.

I would suggest, "soon".

*sigh*

What happens if you are constantly moving and suddenly find yourself with a mere 7 hit points? If you were really moving, there IS NO follow up attack... The only possible way for a follow up attack is if you stop in one place (for whatever reason) and STAY in the SAME spot through the Assasin Strike Animation... MOVE at ANY time during the Assasin Strike animation and the follow up WILL NOT hit you....

Gee, that was so hard to understand...

So, with the new system, will you be immune to Stalkers? Duh... NO! And you SHOULDNT be! Will you get one shot by any AT? NO!

Will you get 2 Shot if you arent moving around? OH YEAH! And guess what, you'll be getting two shot by Blasters and Scrappers and EM Tankers blah blah blah...

Time to click the noggin on, especially if you have any desire at all to play in Warburg or beyond...

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4. Probably the most important thing: Don't let Stalkers know you can see them. Keep an eye on them, but give away that you know they're there.

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Actually, I find they stay far away if they think I can see them

Try and figure that one out

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Well, I think the difference is that you, for instance dont want the Stalkers close... While some people want to draw the Stalker in to kill him/her...

Both are actually effective at accomplishing the intended goals.

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You owe Castle an apology for that...

He has been nothing short of an amazing liason to the player community. He has been working on several ATs, not just Stalkers... The poor guy even likes looking over numbers on his lunch hour!

[/ QUOTE ] One has nothing to do with the other. Don't imply something that has not been stated.

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Well, then since you made the initial accusation... What proof do you have that _Castle_ is biased toward the Stalker AT? Or were you just pulling that out of you rear?

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Ah yes, Mieux, the original stalker nerf cryer. Instead of making ad hominem attacks such as implying that those that don't agree with you to be irrational, perhaps you should provide some real substance to your posts that would benefit this thread.

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Kahoru,

LoL, It's exactly this that I find most amusing about Mieux's rantings... Mieux just spent a fair amount of time making a post basically calling Arcanaville a noob... LoL I find that hilarious, for months and months Arcanaville has demonstrated a very deep understanding of how the mechanics of the game work... But disagree with Mieux and you become a noob...

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ah yes...the Stalker rep during CoV Beta. Well, it's certainly beyond the possibility he might have a bias towards stalkers isn't it?

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You owe Castle an apology for that...

He has been nothing short of an amazing liason to the player community. He has been working on several ATs, not just Stalkers... The poor guy even likes looking over numbers on his lunch hour!

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if placate required a to-hit, stalkers would just put 2 or 3 acc's in it and it would hit 95% of the time instead of 100%...not much of a difference or a point to bother

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Personally, it wouldnt bother me much if Placate did require a To_Hit check, but I think that Arcanaville is right and to make such a change in a vacuum would upset the balance of Stalker sets. There is a greater "big picture" that should be considered with ANY change, to ANY power, in ANY power set... Such a change might require tweaks to other powers in the sets...

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I have to say, this is the biggest problem with stalkers. Not their stealth, not their alpha strike, not their defense, not anything having anything to do with how their built at all. Rather, the number one problem with stalkers is that they can't be discussed rationally on the forums 99 times out of 100. I was treated with ten times more respect by hardcore SR fans when I suggested that power pool defenses not stack with SR defenses, then essentially any suggestion I've ever made to balance damage and perception for stalkers, and I'm probably treated better than average, for a variety of reasons. I've honestly taken to PMing suggestions myself, although I still occasionally stick my neck out and make a public suggestion. I suspect that secretly, the devs would rather we hash this stuff out publicly just to see what the general reaction to various ideas is likely to engender, because they can't, as a rule, easily float hypothetical ideas themselves.

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/agreed

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I say green, you say red. I agree to disagree with you. I personally could not hit a squishy with a Hide + Stealth + Build Up + Assassin Strike if I played a Stalker. Many do. I think they should not be given the opportunity to do so. You do. What is the problem?

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The problem that I have is the way that you make your arguments... It's one thing to say that you dont think the Hide+Stealth+BU+Assasin Strike should be part of the game... That the use of such a combo on a squishy doesnt fit into your personal code of ethics... But why do you insist on referring to the AS ability as an "I win" button, especially when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that there are counters in the game... In fact your own words described how you personally was able to counter it... Dont you think that the whole "I win" button is a bit over the top and actually just not the truth?

I do... In fact, I think it's dishonest to continue using the term when you yourself know it isnt true.

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I just thought I was entitled to my opinion. If it personally hurts you in real life, I personally apologize to you in real life. Please forgive me.



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You are entitled to your opinion of course, you are even entitled to try to convince others to agree with your opinion. Which you have been trying to do recently. However, I am entitled to mine also... I, also, am entitled to try to convince others to agree with me... Part of that is to point out the dishonesty in your argument...

For the record, none of this affects me in real life, so no apology needed. Likewise, if the existance of Stalkers hurts you in some way in real life, then... Well, then the Developers owe you an apology... Good luck with that.

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I say green, you say red. I agree to disagree with you. I personally could not hit a squishy with a Hide + Stealth + Build Up + Assassin Strike if I played a Stalker. Many do. I think they should not be given the opportunity to do so. You do. What is the problem?

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The problem that I have is the way that you make your arguments... It's one thing to say that you dont think the Hide+Stealth+BU+Assasin Strike should be part of the game... That the use of such a combo on a squishy doesnt fit into your personal code of ethics... But why do you insist on referring to the AS ability as an "I win" button, especially when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that there are counters in the game... In fact your own words described how you personally was able to counter it... Dont you think that the whole "I win" button is a bit over the top and actually just not the truth?

I do... In fact, I think it's dishonest to continue using the term when you yourself know it isnt true.

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It is not that they had no way of defeating me. They missed their "I Win" shot and decided to retreat. At least they had that decision to make. They could have stood there next to me and kept trying. Eventually, they would have succeeded (game engine rules - repetitive miss check). Of course, they would be at risk to a damage dealing hero coming by and taking advantage of them. Yet, they always had a choice to make. The "I Win" button leaves you with no choice. I don't see the connection you are trying to make.

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What I was pointing out was that you were able to use your powers in such a way that it greatly reduced the ability of a Stalker to use what you call an "I win" button, also known as an Assasin Strike from Hide. Isnt that the whole idea? You used your powers to prevent the attack? Sure it MIGHT have hit through your "Green Glowing Goodness", but it didnt... Your debuffs prevented the AS from hitting.

What is this nonsense about the Stalker staying there and repeatedly trying to AS you? That's a load of bunk!

You say that the Stalker had the option to withdraw from the fight after he missed... Tell me what was stopping YOU from withdrawing after he missed? Are you telling me that you are really going to stay in one place and allow a Stalker to repeatedly attempt to AS you until he beats the To-Hit floor with the streak breaker code? Are you serious? That isnt much of an "I win" button....


Let's recap, for fun...

You claim that Stalkers have an "I win" button... That implies that you believe that a Stalker can automatically defeat an opponent simply by using a particular power... (Or in this case, combo of Hide+Stealth+Build Up+Assasin Strike)... Yet, you yourself describe a situation where your SOLO Controller used debuffs to create an area of relative safety. A Stalker attempted to AS you but missed... Why? Probably as a direct result of the actions that YOU took, the debuffs that YOU used... Then you describe how you used additional debuffs to slap a nice load of slows on the Stalker... Then because your Controller isnt equipped to deal out enough damage to defeat the Stalker yourself, and you were SOLO, the Stalker was defeated by the NPCs in the area.

I guess I just missed the part where the Stalker had the "I win" button...

What I see is a Controller using her powers to protect herself and in the end, the Stalker made the trip to the Hospital.

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Controller, actually. Ice/rad from the sound of it.

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Yup, you're right, that's what I meant... Doesnt change the point of the post anyway, thanks for the correction. Other post has been corrected.

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It is very, very simple. Giving a player, any player an "I Win" button is bad for business. The developers made a mistake and some players abuse the system by using the tools the developers gave them. In my honest opinion, only an immature person can enjoy the "I Win" button.

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Buffy,
It bothers me that you insist on tossing around the emotionally charged hyperbole of the fabled "I win" button....

Especially when you post the following in another thread...

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Now, the Stalker that came into my Ice/Rad's 'green glowing goodness (GGG)' and tryed to AS me was crazy. I am standing on my Ice Slick, Choking Cloud, Radiation Infection, Enervating Field going. I had about 10 npc villains flopping around like fish out of water, swinging and missing me. There was a boss outside of my circle of impotency, blasting me from range, so I was using Block of Ice (BoI) (my only ranged attack), to slowly kill him.

A player villain stopped by to observe this marvel of a tiny little Controller unscathed in the middle of certain death for many ATs. I hit them with BoI to warn them to keep away, then went back to slowly taking out the boss, while everything flopped around me. Suddenly, a Stalker trying to AS me appeared behind me. He/she is slowed slightly by Ice Slick and starts back peddling. I hit him/her with Shiver and he/she is slowed to a crawl. Now, there is not anyway I can kill this Stalker with my BoI. I hit him/her once with it anyway and now he/she is probably floored -slow. He/she backs right into a group of hero NPCs who killed him/her.

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So, you just described how you as a SOLO controller completely avoided a Stalker... So, how is it that Stalkers have a so called "I win" button if your little Ice/Rad controller has a method for nuetralizing them?

edited to correct a minor mistake

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. As it is its the least used attack for most Stalkers.

[/ QUOTE ] That's just ridiculous. It is the MOST used attack in PvP. The first thing ANY stalker tries do is AS someone. I'm /SR...teamed, I see exactly what happens.

Sorry...you've lost all credibility.

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You gotta be kidding... Why do you think there are so many EM Stalkers? It isnt because there AS is so much better... Heck, I play a Ninja Blade/Ninjitsu Stalker and I dont even open with AS on squishies!

You're just simply wrong on this one, and other things.

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Interesting that you brought that up. How about this....because stalkers do not need to team...they rob the other Villain AT's of linchpin for a viable? Did it ever occur to you that a villain team, where the stalker actually helped the team, might be as capable as a hero team?

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There is some truth here... But I doubt it is what Mieux intended... It has been my experience that I can solo with my Stalker up until a Hero team is assembled and is working together. Once that happens, my Stalker becomes extremely hindered... At that point, I start looking for that rare Dom or Corruptor to join with... Once Heroes field a viable team, solo Stalkers lose their viability.

So I would posit that solo Stalkers are really effective against solo opponents, somewhat effective against loose teams, and not very effective at all against teams that work well together.

But I think the same can be said of solo Blasters and solo Scrappers....

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Yeah, I got tired of the same ole/same ole. I went to EQ2 for a few months, but you always had to have a team, so I came back. Then I went to WOW and hit 60 with a Shaman, so I came back (I never canceled my acct. here). All of my guild mates have moved on, one is playing a Villian, but I am not interested (though I own the game). So, now I am out in Siren's Call (don't even know where the other PvP zones are, lol) and trying to help the NPC heroes defeat the NPC villians. I don't know why I like to do that. I guess it is because I am playing my Controllers most and I like big mobs of bad guys attacking at once (suicidal I suppose - lol).

I do grab my Katana/SR Scrapper out when I get sick of getting ganked by Stalkers. Even though I can't see them (don't have Tactics), they seem to avoid trying to gank me. But, I prefer the Controllers over the melee toons.


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I can understand why you would prefer the Controllers over melee toons... I'm not a big fan of Scrappers either, dont enjoy the way they play. Stalkers play completely differently, IMHO.

I too enjoy the Hot Spots. I like using my Staler to try and tip the balance by removing the LongBow Bosses from the fight or if I am feeling really gutsy, I use hit and run aggroe tactics to pull small groups of LongBow into large spawns of Arachnos. A single Stalker can actually seriously impact a battle simply by drawing some of the LongBow to their doom before the full pitched battle begins. It's dangerous, but great fun.

If you want to roll up a character on Freedom, get in touch @RachelRiley... More then happy to team with you on either the Hero or Villain side of things. On the CoH side I am in ther process of building a pocket emp that will be a Stalker Hunters best friend... (Think Whirlwinding Empath with SS and SJ that keeps Clear Mind on auto fire... With nothing slotted I can keep 10 CMs stacked on a single Stalker hunter)

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I pay 14.99 a month and am not allowed to PVP when I can't find a team? I am sick of PVE. That is all that is keeping me here.

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This one surprised me, coming from you Buffy. I guess, my advice to you would be to put together a PvP specific character that falls into the criteria that you feel you need. I would suggest something in the scrapperish SR line... If, that isnt your thing and you prefer playing Defenders/Controllers, I would suggest that you switch servers. I moved to Freedom personally, specifically because there is a large PvP population. I've never ever had a problem finding a PvP team when I wanted one.

From what you posted it sounds like you really want to enjoy PvP but are trying to shoe horn more PvE based characters into a PvP mold. Stalkers aside, there are some builds that simply do poorly in PvP.

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Oh you are very right, let me get a break free after i get ASd.

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You have one... It's green and comes in three strengths... And with the new change to eliminate one-shotting, you'll have a chance to use it.

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Well, from my Ice Controller (Ice Slick), I can tell you Ice Patch is useless. I respecced out of it with my Blaster.


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Agreed, Ice Patch is great for PvE, not very useful in PvP.

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I read Chilling Embrace is awesome, but it does no damage, so I assumed it wouldn't do a thing against Stalkers AS.

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I really dont think Blaster CE will interrupt AS, but the -spd and -recharge on the power are nice. Unfortunately though, in PvP anyone close enough to be affected by CE is probably going to kill you in only one trip through his attack chain, so the -recharge wont come into play much.

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If what you say is correct, then it seems like I should be able to have CE and Whirlwind going and read the newspaper, free from AS (but not stuns). But, I doubt that. I can test the theory.

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Well, Stalkers with EA are going to walk through your WW I believe, so it isnt foolproof. WW is not foolproof against non EA Stalkers either, although its a whole lot trickier to AS a Whirlwinder without EA. I can usually AS a WWer if I can get an AS activated as they pass by me. It all relies on the WWer blowing by me between WW pulses. Super Speeding might actually make it easier for aome Stalkers to hit you through WW.

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It seems that good Stalkers get around any power, including Hurricane.


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It really comes down to power sets for this... I have never ever been able to even hit someone running Hurricane with my NB/Nin Stalker. If I had EA I would only have to deal with the ACC debuff and not the repel/knockback component of Hurricane, I believe.

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I was standing between two Hurricanes one time and one of the Hurricanes suddenly stopped. I looked over at the Defender who was staggering around stunned. The Stalker didn't use AS, he used another power that stuns and is not interruptable. Needless to say, that Defender died before the other Defender or myself could do anything. Now that is a talented Stalker

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Well, thats Energy Melee... Probably an EM/EA Stalker, popped some yellows and hit him with Bone Smasher or one of his other attacks. Personally, I think EM is probably going to get "Looked at" in the near future, but I could be wrong since other ATs version of EM have survived this long...

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I'm curious what your Ice Blasters secondary set is? Also, I think perhaps your constant breaking of LoS is a little over the top. With my Stalker, I find that an erratic moving opponent is usually enough to prevent me lining up an AS.

If you'll let me know what you secondary set is, I'll offer up the things that you could be doing differently that would make my life much more difficult.

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Chilling Embrace is from the Ice secondary, so it’s an Ice/Ice blaster under discussion.

I thought Chilling Embrace was an auto-hit, so am a little surprised that the auto –spd and –recharge doesn't interrupt the AS. Seems like everything up to and including a sneeze into a wet hanky interrupts mine.

If that doesn’t work I guess Frozen Aura would work since it’s a Sleep – but you need to be lvl 38 to take FA and.... it does have an accuracy check . If that's counted as an AoE check, then FA won’t work very well against a Hidden Stalker.

Drop a lot of Ice Patches when / if you are not moving.

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Yup you're right, I missed that... Thanks.

I dont believe that -spd or -recharge will interrupt AS or disrupt Hide, but I could be mistaken on that.

Dropping Ice Patches probably wont do you much good either, since Acrobatics is so common.

The Whirlwind is pretty effective against some of the Stalker builds, but isnt fool proof, and I believe EA users can walk through it no problem.

If it were me, playing an Ice Blaster with the intent of hunting Stalkers, I would slot up at least 1 fast recharging attack with extra ACC to use to prevent Stalkers from getting back into hide. I would be trying to get AIM and BU into the build sooner. Tactics would be nice, but running WW all the time you're gonna be pushing your Endurance envelope pretty hard.

In your case, I would prob just skip Stealth. Any Stalker using Ninjitsu will see you. The power pool and slot are better used elsewhere, IMO.

AIM and BU though are really the kickers, two great powers which will both help you blow past defenses and will seriously increase your burst damage, which is what Ice Blast is really good at.

I'm curious what your Ice Blastes secondary set is? Also, I think perhaps your constant breaking of LoS is a little over the top. With my Stalker, I find that an erratic moving opponent is usually enough to prevent me lining up an AS.

If you'll let me know what you secondary set is, I'll offer up the things that you could be doing differently that would make my life much more difficult.

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The question is, did the Stalker fear he might die by taking out the Defender?

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Probably want afraid of the Defender, but there was most likely a little fear of the rest of the group. A Stalkers biggest advantage is the surprise factor, once the Defender is down the Stalker no longer has that advantage against the rest.

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What are the weaknessess? Visible. If he does a Placate on the Blaster (because of range), how long before Hide kicks in (legit. question)?

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Hide kicks in 10 seconds after the last incident of the Stalker taking damage or attacking. Also, there is a power in the Leadership Pool, I believe it's Assault that grants resistance to Placate, thus shortening the effective duration of the Placate.

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Could the Controller hold him if the Controller quickly tabbed to target and did a Block of Ice? Obviously not, since the magnitude would be too low.

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No, but it isnt hard for a controller to stack enough holds to break a Stalkers mez protection.

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Would the damage from Block of Ice prevent Hide from kicking in (legit. question)?


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Block of Ice has a damage component as well as the hold component if I recall correctly, so yes, if the Block of Ice Attack lands it will reset the Stalkers timer to get back into hide.

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Say, the Scrapper tabbed, targeted, jumped over and hit the Stalker at the same time as the Controller did. Was Hide interrupted and won't kick in?

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Any hit that has a damage component will reset the timer to get back into hide. Dont forget, also, that the Stalker CANNOT attack anyone if he is trying to get back into Hide status.

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I want to know what danger the Stalker was in with Scenario #1. What challenge?

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That's really hard to quantify, since player skill levels etc are so variable. In your first example, you said that the team was sticking close together, and with a Scrapper/Blaster/Controller trio left after the Defender falls, I would suggest that the Stalker would be at a pretty serious risk, assuming the Heroes are paying attention. If they arent paying attention, it's hard for me to feel any pity for them.

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If you were that Stalker, what actions do you take as the AS is hitting it's target (legit question)? Help me understand, please.

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Well, if it were me... After following the group for a bit, and determining that I want to try to cherry pick the defender out of the group (on a side note, I would probably prefer to eliminate the Controller first), when the moment is right and the Defender presents an opportunity (such as the group engages in a Hot Spot fight against the NPCs), I would hit BU, charge in, AS... As the AS animates, I would que Soaring Dragon for a follow up just in case (and after the change will require it). Once the AS fires, assuming that the blow lands, I follow up if needed. Then it is time to get the heck out of dodge! Once Hide is down, I am at serious risk. Without Hide the other three will down me quickly, if they are paying attention. Now keep in mind, a good Stalker is going to look for moments when the rest of the team is distracted, which is why HotSpot fights are so dangerous.

But in most cases, I would immediately flee. I rarely bother to toss a placate at another member of the team, the time can be better spent getting out of dodge. Even a second can be critical. I would be Super Leaping like mad, trying to break LoS as often as possible to hopefully prevent taking any hits, resetting my Hide timer.

Usually when I try to cherry pick a squishy out of a team like you describe, I either get lucky and manage to get back into hide, or one of the team gets a hit on me and prevents it. It really comes down to pursuit skills, and to some degree animation times. One of the reasons that Ice blasters are so nasty is that their animations are quick, so the Stalkers dont gain much ground during the Blasters animations. This is also one of the reasons we are seeing so many WhirlWinders now, attacks that dont root make chasing Stalkers down much much easier.

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Four friends decide to check out Siren's Call. A MA/SR Scrapper, Fire/Dev Blaster, Dark/Rad Defender, and an Ice/Rad Controller. They stick togther and are checking out the zone. Bam, Defender is dead. "What was that?". A short time passes waiting for the Defender to get back from the Hospital. Bam, Controller is dead. "What the <bleep> was that?". Team leaves frustrated and angry.

Now, same team after some research, comes back after respeccing for PVP. All four now have Tactics and Assault. The Ice Controller now has Artic Air. Blaster circles overhead. Scrapper circles around Defender and Controller. Stalker approaches, Blaster sends out a warning shot, Stalker either goes and gets a team, or does not bother the fearsome-foursome.


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I'm not sure what your point is Buffy... The first group will be at a major disadvantage, although you kinda left out the part where after the AS the three remaining Heroes CAN see and CAN target the Stalker. Stalker can only Placate one of them. But let's not worry about that.

You are also correct that after some research the same group will fair much better in PvP, and a solo Stalker very well might avoid them (although I probably wouldnt, I think it's fun to stalk a team and try to exploit a mistake that they might make)

Are you trying to say that this is unfair? Is it unfair that the unprepared team will struggle in PvP? How on earth would you change that? You do know that an unprepared team will struggle against any number of ATs when built for PvP and played by competant PvPers? That same group would have lost that Defender to a big bad scrapper too.

You of all people should know that there are Tanks rolled up and built very very badly by uninformed players every single hour of the day. These new Tankers struggle and many eventually give up the AT because they dont understand how Tanks work or in many many cases dont understand even how the Tank AT meshes with a team. Should the game be reworked to prevent this? How would possibly do that? You cant build PvP around the least common denominator... In PvE even, that poorly built Tank might get along ok for the first few levels, but difficulty starts ramping up as he/she levels and the poorly built Tank will eventually start hitting a wall, a point where he really struggles.

In PvP, like in the real world, ignorance is not a defense.

Your scenarios are not a Stalker problem. They are more a problem with the way game mechanic information is hidden from the player base.

What I wish the Devs would do is this... When you get sent to that first PvP Zone contact, about the time you hit 15, there should be an option to watch a video/read a primer on PvP. A five or ten minute tutorial might go a long way to educating people like your first group just a bit before they enter the zone. I dont see any reason why things like +/- perception shouldnt be explained to new PvPers. Also toggle dropping, and unresistable damage too. It should be explained that base Accuracy is different in the PvP zone. Etc. Also, PvP aspects of powers should be listed in Powers descriptions. A new PvPer shouldnt have to come to these forums to learn about toggle droppers etc. Why isnt that information made available in the game?

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I DO have a problem with an Invisible foe with a killing blow.


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Well that's going away, problem solved.

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And, if it did not kill me in one-shot, that same foe can prevent me from targeting them, though I would be crazy to stick around anyways.

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There is a power that is available to you that resists Placate. Placates recharge is pretty long. And, yes, as an UNSUPPORTED Defender you WOULD be crazy to stick around and duke it out with a Melee character. You see, a Defenders primary role is not to attack, but to provide buffs/debuffs/etc to support the team. Your attacks are Secondary... What makes you think that you SHOULD be able to go toe to toe with a Damage AT? You wouldnt fair very well against a Scrapper or Blaster either.

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And, that same foe, even if didn't prevent me from targeting them has the defenses of a Scrapper. And, that same foe has 90% damage of a Blaster from their non-AS attack powers. See my point?

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Well, let's see... You left off the really low Hit Points... With a few exceptions, we have no range so are forced into Melee. Everyone likes to talk about how Stalkers have Scrapper defenses, when we all know how easy it is to get past +Def powers if you build for it.

Buffy, I dont begrudge you your opinion. I just feel that from a lot of the things you have been saying that in some respects you have formed your opinion based on partial information and emotions. That is just my opinion.

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you can't auto-fire an inturruptable power, but yeah, you CAN que it

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ROFLMAO! In the time I posted you just made an even larger fool of yourself!