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Whether you share his level of annoyance or not, you are A; a paying customer B; paying for testing and C; paying for careful analysis. These are things that you ARE paying for.
Whether you think he's right or not, his statement is accurate. He is saying what HE wants and then stating, quite truthfully, what we are all paying for as we all pay the same rate.
And he's 100% correct.
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Well, as far as that goes, sure.
However, the point here is that I don't feel that the occasional minor slip-up, if efforts are made to correct it in a reasonable timeframe, qualifies as a major failure of "sufficient testing and careful analysis."
The last time I tried to relate my own experiences in software development to the CoH development process, it turned into a HUGE digression that served no purpose, so this time, I'll just say this: he's not the only IT professional in this thread, and my own personal belief (based on experience on much smaller projects) is that expecting nothing of this sort to happen in a development effort as immense as CoH/CoV... well, that's just a total pipe dream. In my opinon.
So, he shouldn't imply that anyone else should share his outrage. The rest of us can decide that for ourselves, and calling us "lemmings" if we don't agree with him isn't going to earn him a trace of sympathy from anyone.
Of course not, all you have to do is queu up another attack. The whole 1% thing is pretty pointless, imo.
It certainly won't affect the frequency with which I PvP, which is to say... little to none.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
That's all for now.
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before everyone goes crazynuts over this, please remember that Castle said this will also affect the NPCs attack us as players. No more AV one shots.
this wil not affect the way we damage NPCs.
[edit] I kinda like Ilr's suggestion
[re-edit] holy crap, did i just type that?
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
▲Scrapper Issues List - Going Rogue Edition▲
Hey States, a quick question....
Does your "no one-shot idea" mean that fire's additional DoT effects are gonna be suppressed or something? Fire causes lingering damage after the attack. If the initial strike does 99%, the player dies after the next bonus tick. That means fire doms, fire blasters, and fire corruptors still have a one-shot.
Other DoTs aren't going to have this "massive frontloaded DoT" issue. But fire is of special note.
Wait. Why am I telling you this?!?! Augh! Must go level all my fire villains immediately!
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Why not use the idea Several posters have already suggested:
Make Health Bars drop more gradually instead of instantly... You might get shot for 99% of your health, but it would take 3 seconds for you to actually die. Think of it as changing all Hits over 500 Damage into DoT's... or Something... Anything damn thing but THIS 1% idea
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I fail to see how this is fair to an AT whose meant to extreme burst damage (Stalkers). In PvE that idea is probably fine and would be considered a global buff by most, but in PvP 3 seconds is an eternity.
For once I actually agree with the fix the Devs have set forth. No one can be one-shotted anymore. You're Defender or Troller or Corruptor has time to heal you. You have time to pop a green or run if you see fit - yet at the same time those who are able to "one-shot" (which happens a lot less often than people realize) aren't nerfed hard.
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Either say it or don't say it or just have the balls to tell us "Hey, this is our game, we're gonna do what we want with it. Period". If they said that I'd shut up.
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I'm giving 10 to 1 odds that you wouldn't. Any takers?
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
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1. We're looking into the tweak to Endurance for mobs that's affected Endurance Drain abilities. Sorry about that!
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Statesman doesn't say that anything about mob Endurance or Endurance Drain abilities is going to get fixed in any way.
In fact, this is a less commital claim than _Castle_'s last comment - perhaps _Castle_'s idea was discarded. Given the amount of vitriol flung at the devs by me and others, I would not be surprised if Statesman chose his words very carefully here to avoid further abuse. Then again, he probably has very high +res to forum posters negative energy attacks.
I'm not celebrating just yet, except to congratulate him on his new son.
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That's a horrible idea for team play. A single empath controller or defender's healing is already horribly difficult to overcome
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I wasn't aware landing a single hold on a defensless squishy was "horribly difficult"...
Ever try recruiting a Dominator? Hell, get an Ice blasting corruptor, they make even shorter work of them. I mean really, how dumb do you think I am? "Oooh, big scary Empathy Defender" ...just shuttup
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You really ought to keep in mind that not everyone fights the noobs you must victimize. With the kind of change your advocating a good team would never have a death. Dumb, no just not very sharp when it comes to balance issues, I'm not sure how you label that, naive perhaps.
Thorizdin
Lords of the Dead
Old School Legends
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1. We're looking into the tweak to Endurance for mobs that's affected Endurance Drain abilities. Sorry about that!
2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
That's all for now.
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States, while I'm glad both of these things are being looked at, I think if you're going to make these kind of announcements you need to be more specific about what changes are being considered, what they might entail. These one liners of yours just tend to lead to pages and pages of speculation that usually degenerate into flamewars.
Heroes
Dysmal
Lumynous
Sam Steele
Pluck
Wile
Slagheap
Pressure Wave
Rhiannon Bel
Verified
Stellaric
Syd Mallorn
Villains
Jotunheim Skald
Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
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Just to make sure, PvE and PvP?
edit: and is this to be expected at I7 or a patch before then?
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He syas to players on the post. I hpe ot does not extends further than that.
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These one liners of yours just tend to lead to pages and pages of speculation that usually degenerate into flamewars.
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To be fair, they would degenerate into flame wars even if he went into full detail, including pie graphs, charts, slide shows, and the infamous "Power Point Presentation". Granted, I don't know that for 100% certain, but it doesn't even take a wiggle of my imagination to see it happening with how fast and easy people fly off the handle and such. (not just here, but in general. Retail can suck sometimes @.@)
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1. We're looking into the tweak to Endurance for mobs that's affected Endurance Drain abilities. Sorry about that!
2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
That's all for now.
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Gotta love it. This post has been on the boards for, what . . . less than 10 minutes and already has 60+ replies.
Thank you, States, for looking into both of these and posting here to let us know that there are changes coming. No news is *always* bad news. Some news can go either way.
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2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
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Just to make sure, PvE and PvP?
edit: and is this to be expected at I7 or a patch before then?
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He syas to players on the post. I hpe ot does not extends further than that.
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It means when a Player is hit with any attack, if they would go from 100% to 0% in that one hit, they are instead brought to 1%.
Stalker in PvP Zone? The lowest in one shot from 100% would be 1%.
That Arch-Villain / Hero in PvE? Same thing. No more having Luminary Nova and take out all the squishies standing too close. No more Dreck doing the same. No more stray blast from Hami taking out the Controller section of the raid in one blast.
Of course, for some reason, I almost want to say this would be really, really awesome buff for Blasters and Defience! Just hang near the tank during an AV fight until you get hit once, ZIP up your Defience bar, then back off and shoot. When you're bar goes back down, pop some greens (or get heals) and do it again. Could be interesting what can be reached with controlled aggro and the knowledge that you can't die from one hit.
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1. We're looking into the tweak to Endurance for mobs that's affected Endurance Drain abilities. Sorry about that!
2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
That's all for now.
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So does this mean that my elec/elec blaster may be able to get some use again? Since Short Circuit is all but useless now. It was only half useless after ED. I really cant bring my self to play him... and since he is 36 I have not been able to delete him.
While you are at it... can you fix unyeilding... When defenses were lowered, the penalty was not lowered as well. My vulnerable scrapper is also 36 and has not been played much since ED either. Also cant bring my self to delete it either...
But the time for both is coming.
The "one-shot" fix will be nice. If a fall cant defeat a hero then the basic coding is already there.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
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It means when a Player is hit with any attack, if they would go from 100% to 0% in that one hit, they are instead brought to 1%.
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I doubt that. The way I'm reading it, it would essentially only work if you were at 100% to begin with. Otherwise you'd see situations where an attack doesn't kill an injured hero because the damage is too high.
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It means when a Player is hit with any attack, if they would go from 100% to 0% in that one hit, they are instead brought to 1%.
Stalker in PvP Zone? The lowest in one shot from 100% would be 1%.
That Arch-Villain / Hero in PvE? Same thing. No more having Luminary Nova and take out all the squishies standing too close.
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As long as they were 100% before she did nova. If any was 99.9% hp, he will die.
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No more Dreck doing the same. No more stray blast from Hami taking out the Controller section of the raid in one blast.
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I can see Hami being tweaked though, its rather easy as it is now once you have all the needed trollers aboard.
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Oh boo freakin hoo. I've been playing defective sets since I bought the game, and I never once came on to tell the devs how they better fix it or I'm gonna be mad.
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Nobody said any of this.
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You also didn't say that you were upset about the change. But I can read between the lines.
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Most of the time, forum goer frustration is due to lack of response on part of the devs, and in the case of I5-6, feelings of mistreatement. So States takes the time to let everyone know that they're aware of the problem, looking into it, and even apologizes, and he still get's flamed for it.
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I have a friend whose late all the time. He always has a good reason and always apologizes, but y'know what? After a while it stopped mattering to me how good the reason was or if he apologized, he's always frackin' late and I got sick of it. Period. Same logic applies here.
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Man, I had a friend who was always complaining that I would sign my e-mails "arrrrrr maties!", and I told him I do it cause pirates freakin rule. He said he didn't like it and I should stop. I said I'm sorry, and I'll look into the issue. But that doesn't give him the right to tell me off because I choose to write MY e-mails in a way that's pleasing to me. Same logic applies here.
His game. His changes. His loss if you stop paying.
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Guess what. It's software. There's a complicated pipeline, and you can't just pull something because there's a balance problem. It's not a bug, it was an intentional change with side effects that negatively affected some players. They never said they wouldn't fix it, they never said they wouldn't look into it, the never even said it was going to take a long time.
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Hey, how ya doin'? Welcome to the topic.
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Yes, welcome to you being angry about them not fixing something that would require altering code in the pipline, thus destroying the entire concept of a pipeline.
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Just because you're a dedicated player doesn't mean they should stop to consult you every time a change is made. With the responses that they get, regardless of how open or cryptic (no pun intended...maybe) they are being, I don't know why they should bother being open at all. It's not like the amount of flaming that goes on is lessened by it.
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Nope, but it woudl be nice if there was some damn follow through once in a while, or if they actaully said something now and then, instead all we get are equivocations and half-statements like "maybe" and "soon" and "we're looking into it" to shut us up and occupy us with the naive as they insist that we "Wait until they've looked into it" and then when, inevitably, they do nothing about it those same naive people scream about how they "never promised to fix anything" (which is an... interesting choice of words).
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Yeah.
Hey Statesman, can you night compile an entire list of issues that anyone and everyone may be concerned about, so that we can all know how close you are to fixing it? That surely couldn't take you an enourmouse amount of time that might be spent actually fixing the issues, right??
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Either say it or don't say it or just have the balls to tell us "Hey, this is our game, we're gonna do what we want with it. Period". If they said that I'd shut up. The thing that irks me is the feigned concern about our opinions.
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I call [censored] on that one. I think its about a million times more likely that the Balance Vision thread will be abandoned first. Even if they said that, you, and everyone else who thinks that because you pay money for this game, you get a say in the development and upkeep, would all continue to complain. Period.
Y'wanna know what would make me shut up? If people could have the slightest decency in dealing with the devs. Treat Statesman the way you would treat anyone else you don't know, in person, and I'll leave you alone. But anyone who thinks that they're owed an explanation, or a change, or a list of when changes may or may not be coming needs to learn a thing or two about reasonable expectations.
I'll say it again. He came out, and said they're aware of it, they're looking into it, and he apologized for it. The only thing the devs actually do owe us in terms of communication, might be that they're aware of it.
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Allow me to bring you back to reality. I don't want them to consult me. I'm an IT professional. We don't release jack diddly squat from developers without developer AND End User Testing. This piece, as were many others, got released live without consideration of known side effects. If the side effects WERE considered, then they were thought without merit for restarting the development cycle, or tuning and re-testing.
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Yeah, that was my original assessment of the situation.
Where's your problem?
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What I WANT is proper testing, and no spin doctoring. Those of you following along the nerf trail like lemmings must not work at jobs with any level of responsibility. We are paying customers. Hundreds of thousands of us. We pay for testing. We pay for careful analysis. I don't give a rat's [censored] about lying to the player base. I note ACTIONS not words, unless they contrast in such a way as to alter character of the speaker.
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Actually, you're paying for access to their servers. So, you're wrong.
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The ACTION taken directly relates to weakening the effects of an already hampered collection of powers. Other options WERE available. The side effects were patently obvious, and quite loudly complained about, and intelligently debated. Sounds real familiar to me.
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If the side effects WERE considered, then they were thought without merit for restarting the development cycle, or tuning and re-testing.
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Good work, Lallendos, you just proved to everyone that no wrong has been commited.
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As long as they were 100% before she did nova. If any was 99.9% hp, he will die.
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Err yeah... I wasn't clear on that, was I? Well it was late and I wanted to leave work, so there!
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I can see Hami being tweaked though, its rather easy as it is now once you have all the needed trollers aboard.
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Meh, in all honsety, I don't do the "Hami" thing myself, I just used him as an example because lots of people can be one shotted at once by him (I think... last I checked...).
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So then anything that has DOT damage can take that 1% away and you still die.
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Not if you're out of enemy range by the time the first attack's animation completes.
If I understand correctly, this does fix (or at least mitigate somewhat) the "sniper hits you with AS while you're moving quickly, and you die 200 yards away when the animation completes" broken-reality problem. If they (or one of their friends) aren't legitimately in range when the AS completes, they're unable to finish you off and the assassination attempt fails. Instant reduction in "cheap" drive-by one-shots.
Seems like a pretty significant improvement to me.
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This does absolutely nothing for the bigger complaints that have always been there. One that has been around for a while is Ice Armor getting one shotted by AVs, not sure if it still happens honestly since the small buffs ice recieved but I see Energy Aura brutes having the same issue and less hit points. Plus no self heal with hit point boost like ice tanks have. Getting one shotted down to 1% health will not do anything against a full mob that has a AV in it. Plus if you are at 99.9% health you can still be one shotted. So better not take any fall damage before running in.
Might want to consider an exploit that can be enacted due to Blaster's Defiance, and quickly SKing the lower-level Blaster after the one-shot (to 1 HP) so he can Nova the whole group with enhanced accuracy (due to the SK).
That's already in one of my posts, but yeah, I can really see that as a new and potentially powerful exploit. Scary thought. Defiance could be more then a little useful...
I wouldn't think so, most of the time if it can knock you through all your health that fast it has another attack coming around right afterwords.
But it does let nukes become a blaze of glory.
Statesman:
1. Kudos for admitting the error! Thanks for looking into it; it is appreciated. I hope the end-result will at least restore Endurance Drain to its former potency.
2. This "fix" seems merely cosmetic. It's not going to resolve the problem of Stalkers using Assassin's Strike to basically "gank" everybody else in PvP situations. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to match the heavy-handed nerf to Endurance Drain in PvP; you, the Developers, have traditionally argued that Endurance Drain was "too powerful" for PvP and thus needed to be nerfed to 25% of its PvE levels.
However, if you truly believe that dropping someone's Hit Points to 1% in PvP situations in one hit is "fair", perhaps you should apply that same "fix" to Endurance Drain in PvP. This would seem to me to be fair, as death is a far more severe effect than Endurance Drain is.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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2. We'll be putting in a check that prevents "one shotting"; if anything occurs within a fraction of second that brings a player from 100% Hit Points down to 0, we instead give the player 1% Hit Points.
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What's the point of playing an Assassin-type class and using an attack called "Assassin Strike" if I can't use it to Assassinate players?
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Don't get too caught up in the name. They made the change to players at least have a chance to recover from an AS. Leaving them with 1% really isn't that big of a deal - well it doesn't affect my attack chain at all at least.