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So with all due respect the devs never said you can not experience all of the content in this game with one specific hero. And to tell your player base this as a company would basically in so many words be telling your player base we want more of your money for making new alts.
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With all due respect, I remember reading the post by one of the Devs where they said that.
One character is not supposed to experience all fo the content.
Perhaps someone with better Search-fu than me can find the quote, but I haven't.
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Well if that is the case, then there are many players in this game that have proved the devs wrong when they made this statement.
I know quite a few heroes that have completed everything in this game. So I guess they broke the game design when they completed everything.
So that statement is obvious incorrect wouldn't you think?
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
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Think of a heated argument you once had with someone; I'm sure the more time you had to think about it, the more reasons you could come up with as to why you were in the right... right?
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Sometimes, yes.
Other times, I realise that I was being an [censored], and owe the pther person(s) an apology or three.
And sometimes I'm not sure, and need to go to someone else, explain the situation, and ask them what they think of the situation.
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1. I am a perfectionist, and in turn a completist. I want to collect all possible badges, for the sake of having all possible badges.
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And taken to too great of an extreme, that can devolve into a pathology - specifically, OCD ("obsessive-compulsive disorder").
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2. I am greatly opposed to the idea of any content, within a game, being made permanently unavailable. (Except, obviously, once the game is 'complete', i.e. everything there is to do, is done - as games are humanly finite. Furthermore, 'finite' is perhaps not the best term to throw around so far as an MMORPG is concerned, but certainly, as I'm sure the clamouring end-game content-crowd will happily tell you - sometimes it is possible to do almost all of everything. ^_^)
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Whereas I am opposed to any scheme that says "here, here's everything in the game - you get ALL of it, regardless of what choices you make." I'd rather one's choices had an impact on how the game plays out for you, and on what you "have" at the end of it all.
I'd also like the results of each choice to be reasonably balanced against each other, so that no one choice was inherently "better" than another, of course. The developers having decided that limited-opportunity badges - includingIsolator - will never be prerequisites for full Accolades, shows that they share the same value as I hold, on that front at least.
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(I think your comparison to a coin mint / market situation was quite succint on this point. ^_^)
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Thanks; I was rather pleased with thinking that one up, myself. ^_^
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Essentially, what I hope for is more of a directly-logical discussion on the pros and cons of the solutions being thrown about, in terms of some established goals - such as, would such a solution make more players more satisfied with the game, or less? Would such solutions increase the game revenues, or decrease subscription durations? Is it going to ultimately lead to better numbers for Cryptic and a happier population of people can go back and get their character a badge... or if they reroll an alt and get it with them instead?
This, I think, is what really needs to be talked about. ^___^
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Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?
Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?
I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.
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Hahaha, no, I totally understand! ^_^ I was on 56k too for the longest time, and it was through NetZero too.
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Could be worse; you could've been on AOL. I was. O_o
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But I also think this particular line of thinking came about because I saw 'special' as to mean 'requiring a great feat to acquire', whereas I can see now that you use the term more to describe a limited supply situation. ^_^
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Both can meana great deal tome. Anyone sporting "Ten Times the Victor" ... well, I've read how tough that badge cab be to get, so, they have my respect for the accomplishment of acquiring it. ^_^
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I think where we diverge here is that I don't see a "Winter Lord Event", so much as an "Xmas Event". Does that make any sense? That essentially, in my eyes, the Winter Lord is as intrinsic and annual (in Paragon) as Christmas trees and candy canes.
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But it's not.
Back to my analogy: the World Series is an annual event. Post "being idiots and trading Babe Ruth away", the Red Sox winning theWorld Series was not an annual event - it was just about a bloody miracle.
Cold Warrior has, so far, become an annually-available badge from "a Winter event". However, Frozen Fury hasn't been brought back,and may never BE brougth back.
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Similarly, I was rather surprised that they did not bring back the Winter Lord this year (which adds some credence to your view of you things, so far as they are in line with the Dev team, mayhaps) - but this may have also been driven by the "Winter Lord XP Farming Frenzy Bonanza" incident.
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Quite possibly. Maybenext year we'll see a more-sanely-implemented Winter Lord, and Frozen Fury will again become available on an annual basis. The fact that it would still be somewhat limited (people who didn't EVER play during the Winter Events would still not be able to get the badges - say, a HS student not allowed to play COH/V during the school year?) would retain some of it's ... well, call it "nifty-ness". But yes, some of that "nifty-ness" would fade, because it would o longer be impossible for new iterations of that badge to be handed out.
(Honestly, I could wish for the Year-of-award tobe included in any badges that return year after year - because then, maybe you'd have "Cold Warrior '04", "Cold Warrior '05", "Cold Warrior '06", "Cold Warrior '07", "Cold Warrior '08", and so on .... all on the same insanely-long-lived character! How's THAT for braggin' rights, eh? ^_^ )
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At this point, it seems to me that the question is more on of "Should we have Celebrant (1) / Celebrant (2) / Celebrant (3) set of badges?" versus "Should we have a (generic) Celebrant badge?"
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I'd rather see them numbered, myself. For reasons I believe you have managed to "grok" by now. ^_^ (Besides, that'd just mean that the old-timers couldhave many extra badges ... heh!)
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As for the baseball analogy... I'm sorry, I really don't know that much about baseball or the World Series! ^_^
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To be honest - neither do I. But you don't gorw up in or near Boston, and not come to understand some, at least, of the Red Sox plight.
In a nutshell: In the ... mid-40's, I think ... the Red Sox traded away one of the great legends of Baseball, Babe Ruth, to the Yankees. He allegedly laid a curse on the 'Sox ... and ever since, despite havign once been a phenomenally successful club, was unable to win a World Series. I think they weren't even able to get INTO the Series most, if not every, year.
Red Sox fans nonetheless continued to loyally support the team; they became known for their dogged, determined loyalty to "the team that couldn't win".
So I think now you can begin to imagine what a huge deal it was to, AT LAST, see the Red Sox win the World Series. Even non-sports-fans like myself were thrilled by that occasion!
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That is what event-limited badges are like, IMO.
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Definately getting you now. ^_^ Like you said, once you've missed the bus, you've missed the bloody bus. By way of comparison... I agree, but I feel that if you wait for a while, another bus comes along. ^_^
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Right - but it's a different buss. Jet-Setter, Toy Collector, Handsome; not Hallow Spirit, nor Malleus.
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Also, the example of numismatism did help me understand; thank you for raising it.
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*grin* Any opportunity to brag / show off, even if only via text ... ^_^;;
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Hahaha, yeah! I'm beginning to think they should have a badge for Regenners, "I Live For The Bat".
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LOL. Or maybe "Nerf Me" (think "Kick Me" signs taped to their backs).
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In my mind, I would rather have seen the badge awarded to characters automatically via a data-mining operation; or even have it set so that any character from an account with a suitably-veteran creation date receives the badge the moment they log on.
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Or better, they could have just awarded it to every character in the game at that time. I agree that the developers' decisions relating to when, where, and how to award particualr badges has not always been perfect - but then, they (like we) are merely human.
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[...] or offering the infamous fortune teller mission to as many people as possible with no concern of monetary reward.
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I'd do that myself, without hesitation, solely because it's a critical component of an accolade - and I firmly believe in "good karma begets good karma". ^_^
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Except, of course, there were three badges - I'd missed out on Toy Collector, because the information on it was a tad scarce. I only found out about it towards the end of the event, and promptly went to work opening the necessary two hundred presents (which, personally, I thought was something of a silly amount.) It took me just under two hours. And I simply didn't have time to do it with my alts too... so for the first time ever, I missed out on a badge with them.
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Well, I had the time ... but was strongly disinclined to BOTHER. The only character I have with Toy Collector is Xaotic, my Nin/Nin Stalker. And he only has it due to thehappy combination of a Jet-pack for rapid transit (he was level 8 at the time),and HIDE ... swoop in, invisibly grab the present whileignoring the frosties, swoop out. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Fifty presents would have been MORE than sufficient, IMO. Perhaps even somewhat less (thirty?) ...
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Whereas I am opposed to any scheme that says "here, here's everything in the game - you get ALL of it, regardless of what choices you make." I'd rather one's choices had an impact on how the game plays out for you, and on what you "have" at the end of it all.
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Cool, then we agree. I simply want the opportunity to either get or to pass up the isolator badge for my pre-issue 2 toons.
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Essentially, what I hope for is more of a directly-logical discussion on the pros and cons of the solutions being thrown about, in terms of some established goals - such as, would such a solution make more players more satisfied with the game, or less? Would such solutions increase the game revenues, or decrease subscription durations? Is it going to ultimately lead to better numbers for Cryptic and a happier population of people can go back and get their character a badge... or if they reroll an alt and get it with them instead?
This, I think, is what really needs to be talked about. ^___^
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Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?
Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?
I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.
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The same arguement could be said the other way around. Does granting a way to get Isolator for those that want to impact anyone elses gameplay?
If it was made into a mission or as part of a TF would it lessen or impove the content?
Would creating such a scheme cause someone to throw their hands up in disgust and leave the game?
The same answer as yours in my opinion.
P.S. I can think of one person that would come back, honest.. (ok, so he *does* have OCD but he *would* come back.)
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
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First of all you misquoted me. Twice.
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Point those out to me then please.
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The Tutorial is an EVENT, whether you like to believe that or not. Why do I say that? Because just like every other event (like the most recent holiday one), you can skip it and it doesn't adversely affect you in anyway.
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Nope. Until many months after launch it was mandatory. CoV the Tutorial is mandatory. Tutorials are not EVENTs...they're TUTORIALs, aka an introduction to the game and it's mechanics.
There are several MMOs that actually let you go back to the starter area.
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You mentioned about a cure at a hospital for a disease? Well, it was a bad analogy. You made it sound as if they already had a cure. Not that they were working on it. Plus, it doesn't apply because in THIS case, what they were working obviously would have done nothing for you anyway. It wasn't even a cure for YOUR disease, in this case. You just want it to make yourself feel better.
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It was accurate. They knew they were going to introduce badges, they already had the first Issue or two created by the time CoH launched, it would have taken much more than 2-3 months to create all those badges, debug them, datamine for them, etc. So the cure (badges) was already in existence (development/testing) and was not made public knowledge.
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So... how many? This doesn't even answer the question. I'm willing to bet it's really not that many.
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If I had named a number instead of mentioning atleast two of the extremely likely scenarios you'd have said my number was wrong or over exaggerated so really no matter what I said in this instance I'd have been wrong. But if you want a number fine. 2000. At the time badges were entered into CoH Cryptics stated/Claimed to have 180,000+ subscribers. If even 10% hung out in the tutorial or teamed with friends in it, that's 2000. But we'll never know because they never bothered to look.
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*flips through his CoH manual*
Nope.. nothing there...
*flips thorugh his CoV manual*
Funny... nothing there eithe
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Ya know whats really funny? Some people actually have enough sense to read up on a game by reading more than just the manual. Like if they're deciding to buy it they look up stuff online because (duh) they won't have the manual if they haven't bought the game yet. Heck the CoH manual you get with the game (atleast up to mid-last year) doesn't even include levels 41-50! And that was almost a year after launch that it still didn't list that. Manual's are the last place to go for info about MMOs unfortunately.
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You've made an EXTREMELY poor assumption that players will do anymore that that. What percentage of the playbase even uses these forum? Where exactly are you asking them to "go look" for this information if it isn't in the manual or the game? Should a popup be added that FORCES people to come here and look for info on badges? Putting a message in the tutorial explaining badges is probably the best way to go to help prevent people from missing it. If people choose not to read it and act on it, that's their fault.
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Well my point was that you support putting a popup in the tutorial mentionning badges ...then how many people actually read the popups? If they're so interested in learning everything they can via reading they'll look for info on these forums and online via search engines like google...the same ones that would bother to get isolator are the same ones that would read up on it.
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You are using the costume creator to justify a badge? I'm not even going to go here, because it's just that ridiculous to think about.
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Why not? Not everyone cares about trenchcoats, just like not everyone cares about isolator. But there are people that simply "must" have a trenchcoat because it completes their character or looks good. Just like there are people that simply "must" have isolator because it completes their collection. And it'd be just as fair to only give a trenchcoat to characters made after X date as it is to only give the option of having isolator to cahracters made after X date, both punish people for being faithful customers.
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No, there weren't, because the badge didn't exist before I2. So datamining at this point is futile and irrelvant.
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yeah there were. You can't say there weren't. What are the odds that even one person out of nearly 200,000 did beat up 100 isolators? Pretty good. That logic is "EXTREMELY" flawed. That's like saying "Oh there's no way anyone hit 50 before I2 so no point in datamining for late game mission badges...
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For the record, I don't even like the fact that you can exempler down and gain badges that way and hope they remove the ability to do that. It hurts replayability, and it's brought about the nasty little buisness of people "selling" spots on badge missions.
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yeah because you no there's no replayability in this game since every AT is the same blah blah...if they depend on badges to provide replayability then the game would reallly suck...Oh and you wanna cure that selling a spot on a team crap? Let people flashback. They can go get isolator and go get their old badge missions that they missed because...DUH....there weren't badges when they were going through the missions or they were bugged and being a known issue, they weren't awarded...which is really crooked since people earned them and since the known issues section is NEVER up to date or complete.
That would also increase replayability because people would be able to replay characters they had already gotten to 50 and finish old story arcs or get badge missions they missed...
Ok and lets also stop comparing this to the various event badges.
It's not in any way comparable to the holiday badges aside from the fact you don't HAVE to get it or you COULD miss it. Otherwise it shares nothing in common with those badges.
Not only did they not datamine to award it to those (granted relatively few) people that probably did fulfill the requirements, they also knew badges would be in the game and kept that knowledge to themselves. Just like they knew that the annoyingly difficult and time consuming to acquire badge, Toy Collector, was to have a gladiator attached to it. Again they told no one til after the fact. Had people known they'd get two badges instead of one they would have put in the effort to get it. Just like if people had known they'd get a badge for Infected they'd have put in the effort. By the time the first event badges were added to the game badges in general had been around for months, anyone playing during an event will obviously hear about it, I mean good lord, if you never saw a buncha snowmen walking around every zone you don't deserve the badges :-p So comparing a badge that is inaccessable beyond the tutorial and therefore was not available at all for people who joined prior to badges being added is far from similar to people who start playing in December. Obviously you can't get a badge only available in the Month of Oct, in December...however a badge available for a simple kill task? Restricted to a certain area and from a certain point in time forward? Nope...
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Not only did they not datamine to award it to those (granted relatively few) people that probably did fulfill the requirements, they also knew badges would be in the game and kept that knowledge to themselves. Just like they knew that the annoyingly difficult and time consuming to acquire badge, Toy Collector, was to have a gladiator attached to it. Again they told no one til after the fact. Had people known they'd get two badges instead of one they would have put in the effort to get it. Just like if people had known they'd get a badge for Infected they'd have put in the effort. By the time the first event badges were added to the game badges in general had been around for months, anyone playing during an event will obviously hear about it, I mean good lord, if you never saw a buncha snowmen walking around every zone you don't deserve the badges :-p So comparing a badge that is inaccessable beyond the tutorial and therefore was not available at all for people who joined prior to badges being added is far from similar to people who start playing in December. Obviously you can't get a badge only available in the Month of Oct, in December...however a badge available for a simple kill task? Restricted to a certain area and from a certain point in time forward? Nope...
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However, if I remember correctly, they also didn't tell people that the Toy Collector badge even existed until well into the debate on the forums of just how many presents it actually took to get it. In fact, almost ALL of the badge info has been discovered either by determined members of the player populace, or by people searching through the .Pigg files. The Dev's mostly acknowledged the existance of most, and settled debates on others.
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Replayability? It's not often that I disagree with LiquidX, but here I have to. CoH is a roleplaying game, and that element plays strongly for me. I have a main character, and this is the character I want to accomplish things with. If I miss a badge mission or story arc somewhere in the 30s (and this has happened, to me and some friends, because the story arc system was bugged to hell), I'm supposed to reroll a brand new character and play all the way up to those missions again, just so I can get the badge? Badges damn well better do more than just look pretty if I have to go through that to collect them. "Oops, missed a badge at level 39. Better start over, I was sooooo close that time!"
That's not replayability for the simple fact that many people, myself included, won't participate in such a timesink. Not to mention that constantly watching for the next badge mission can really kill the immersion factor. Who's going to brag about the fact that they have "All the badges, spread over 6 characters!"
Sure replayability is important, but what does it matter what character I replay the game with? I've got almost more hours logged on my main character, a level 50, than my other 3 level 50s combined. THAT'S replayability. Not running through the same generic warehouse full of Skulls or Rikti or Family or Tsoo or CoT, or Malta, or Carnies, or Sky Raiders, or whatever, but actually finding things you like to do in the game (and hopefully doing them more than once), and finding the game continually interesting. If replayability is not established on the player's terms, then it's not replayability. It's just a timesink.
If you like badges, and you like to hunt badges, then you should be able to. No harm in that.
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One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:
1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.
2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)
What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.
For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.
Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.
In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.
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Replayability? It's not often that I disagree with LiquidX, but here I have to. CoH is a roleplaying game, and that element plays strongly for me. I have a main character, and this is the character I want to accomplish things with. If I miss a badge mission or story arc somewhere in the 30s (and this has happened, to me and some friends, because the story arc system was bugged to hell), I'm supposed to reroll a brand new character and play all the way up to those missions again, just so I can get the badge? Badges damn well better do more than just look pretty if I have to go through that to collect them. "Oops, missed a badge at level 39. Better start over, I was sooooo close that time!"
That's not replayability for the simple fact that many people, myself included, won't participate in such a timesink. Not to mention that constantly watching for the next badge mission can really kill the immersion factor. Who's going to brag about the fact that they have "All the badges, spread over 6 characters!"
Sure replayability is important, but what does it matter what character I replay the game with? I've got almost more hours logged on my main character, a level 50, than my other 3 level 50s combined. THAT'S replayability. Not running through the same generic warehouse full of Skulls or Rikti or Family or Tsoo or CoT, or Malta, or Carnies, or Sky Raiders, or whatever, but actually finding things you like to do in the game (and hopefully doing them more than once), and finding the game continually interesting. If replayability is not established on the player's terms, then it's not replayability. It's just a timesink.
If you like badges, and you like to hunt badges, then you should be able to. No harm in that.
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One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:
1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.
2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)
What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.
For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.
Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.
In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.
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That is a great idea too, but this will not happen as it would take them more time and money to recreate every contact and put new missions in.
Besides, no one would complain if thats how the game was initially intended. And by doing missions such as you explained to get either one of two badge that would be up to the player's choice in which one he or she earned. basically a equivalent badge to each other.
Example... Player X had badge 1 and Player x has badge1a. Both are from the same contact but are different in the way the mission holder chose to go about doing his or her mission.
Isolator has no equivalent badge, its not by choice all of the prei2 players still in this game has not gotten isolator, it was a bad choice on the dev team to make this one single badge for that 1 zone and thats it.
And to badge collectors there is no equal to the isolator because it doesnt exist, thats why many still want to make this badge obtainable elsewhere other then Outbreak
But I do really like that idea you have, too bad they didn't start off the game like that 
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
Actually, considering they have been updating older missions with new tilesets (For example, the Dr. Vahz map is alot different then it was originally) they could actually start revamping storyarcs with the next issue or two.
WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE?!
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Well, consider this: do you really think that anyone who made their character pre-I2, and who is not currently playing, would come back ... just to get the Isolator badge ...?
Conversely, do you honestly believe that those pre-I2 players who are still here, will suddenly up and leave en mass simply because the policy of not ret-conning the Isolator badge in for them does not change ...?
I'd say the answer to both questions, in the majority of both cases, would be a firm and clear NO.
[/ QUOTE ]
The same arguement could be said the other way around. Does granting a way to get Isolator for those that want to impact anyone elses gameplay?
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Except you fail to realise something: saying "please add ____" is a positive assertation. And when you (speaking in the non-specific sense) make a positive assertation, the burden is upon you to "prove" it, support it, or provide sufficient causative reason for it.
IOW: "he who wishes to change the status quo, must be the one to prove that it SHOULD be changed".
Until that compelling, "it must be done" reasoning is proferred ... all the "no, leave it as-is" people have to say, is: it isn't broken, so leave it as it is.
... at least one person here plays a NEcromancy Mastermind, that's why ...
^_^;;
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As far as I know - the devs have no plans for including an alternate method to get isolator if you did not get it in outbreak.
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Bypassing it and being here BEFORE it existed are 2 different things.
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WHY WONT THIS THREAD DIE?!
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Some people just love collecting badges.......Thats why........
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Until that compelling, "it must be done" reasoning is proferred ... all the "no, leave it as-is" people have to say, is: it isn't broken, so leave it as it is.
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Okay, I have to call Shenanigans, after hearing this stated several times. This is the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Nowhere is it categorically called the "Debate Your Ideas" forum. Thus, all you have to do is come out, post an idea, and then leave it; the devs will look at it and decide whether they like it or not. Nowhere is it said that you have to convince a majority of the forum population in order for an idea to be considered 'cool' by Jack and Co.
People here can say they want Isolator, and the only reason they want it is because their main existed prior to the badge being available; that's justification enough in their eyes. The ones against that concept can say, "No, it's fine the way it is," and that's perfectly justifiable in their eyes. the only failling here is for one side to convince the other, because neither have solid, evidence-supported arguments to sway the opposition.
Thus, when the devs look at it, both sides are going to be equally balanced on the issue, because neither side has provided any conclusive evidence as to whether the idea is good or bad. It's going to come down solely to their decision (as do all things in the game).
Claiming that all you have to say is, "Them's the breaks," in order to win an argument when someone calls for change is wholly untrue. It just means you, like them, don't have a convincing argument as to why the change should not occur.
I think they just need to auto award this badge..... 
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I think they just need to auto award this badge.....
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I will take it ayway they offer it.
Be it a flashback system, Giant Contaminated Monsters, a Portal mission I do not care. I will do what it takes to get it.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
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One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:
1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.
2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)
What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.
For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.
Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.
In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.
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You want me to tell you why that would be meaningless? That's fundamentally no different than beautiful or handsome badge.
Oh, you chose Contact X, so you have Badge X. I took Contact Y, so I have Badge Y.
And, if you can't see the storm brewing for a later date when they go back and attach some power or accolade or something to those badges and Badge X is something really useful, like, let's say a 10% damage increase, while Badge Y increases your running speed by 10%. Yep, look out, the boards would explode with ticked off people that they didn't know about the powers when they chose their path and subsequently, now feel "penalized" because they were one of the first to do the missions and choose path X.
My whole isolator argument is right in line with people like Puretone and a few others that I can't recall right now, but, simply put, nobody stayed in Outbreak when the game went live, NOBODY (or, there might have been a handful game wide), but there simply was no point, the mobs there do NOT give xp and back in those days you did NOT have the option to "skip the tutorial zone"
I personally wouldn't want to see them datamine this and I only say that because the time and effort to find 10 people that actually killed 50 thugs that really didn't give them any xp or anything, just wouldn't be worth it for them. It should be something like a one-time mission for any toon with a CREATION date BEFORE I2 (which for me is like most of my toons). I'd put absolute faith that if they did any datamining whatsoever, they'd find that 99.9% of all toons in their databases that have the isolator badge were created after I2 went live. Gee, now I wonder why that would be?
Having it the way it is now is like a big F-You to people that participated in beta, paid for the preorder cd, paid for the CD and subsequently have had faithfully paid subscriptions for the last 2 years. So, because I was one of the first to pave the way (and, ultimately one of the few faithful from those days that have stuck around), I have to be penalized for not farming something that didn't exist at a time when skipping the tutorial wasn't an option. Umm, k.
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I think they just need to auto award this badge.....
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I will take it ayway they offer it.
Be it a flashback system, Giant Contaminated Monsters, a Portal mission I do not care. I will do what it takes to get it.
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Just include me with you.......
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People whinge about this issue ... if it was implemented, it takes development time away from other things needed (ATs, powersets, bug fixes etc etc etc) ... blah blah blah ... And the halloween event ? and the winterlord event ? and '05 winter event ? and valentines day event ? I don't hear you complaining about those events, the fact they took valuable time away from development of other things ...
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Not only that but a way to get Isolator for lvl 50 heros would = MORE CONTENT! Since when is that bad?! Even if it's one mission it's more content.
They've even admitted that they never datamined for this badge so if someone DID do the work they aren't getting their reward...I know I took out a good 50+ just from trying out different uses of my powers and teaming with friends that had just gotten the game.
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Your mistook my statement ...
My meaning is that people are whinging that if a mission for Isolator was implemented, it would take development time away from other things, such as archtypes or powers, or bug fixes ... then made a sarcastic remark about them not complaining about other events which have done such a thing already ... translating sarcasm into words is often a problem ...
I would love an Isolator mission .. instanced, portal, go back in time ... I don't care, I just want another oppertunity to get Isolator 
CHAMPION!
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The Isolator Badge reads:
"You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone."
However every hero created before Issue 2 has no way to get it! I know there's been some discussion about it, but here's an idea.
Any level 50 hero that speaks to Ms Liberty or Back Alley Brawler will have the opportunity to do a new mission for them. You can only do this mission once and you must be level 50 to gain access to it.
"Hello <hero name>, as a Hero of the City I have a special assignment for you! When you first entered Paragon City the Contaminated in Outbreak were running rampant. Their numbers have grown since and are taking over!
DATA has provided me with a personal Time Travel device that will teleport you back to the time you arrived. But beware <Hero Name>, the contamination has spread! The only powers available to you will be the two you had when you first arrived!
If you stop the Contaminted you will have saved the zone from being overrun in the present! The time travel device only works for one person so you must complete this assignment alone. Return to me for debriefing when you are complete! Good luck!"
As soon as the hero accepts the mission they will transported to the Outbreak map and it will be infested with twice the normal amount of Contaminated! The mission will be to eliminate 250 Contaminated and the mission display will have a counter. The hero will be autoexemped to level one.
The hero takes out 250 of them, gets the badge and a L53 SO. Click mission complete to return to Ms Lib or BAB. Click on them:
"Great job <hero name>! You did it! You stopped the contamination during your arrival to the city and have helped all future generations of heroes. You are a Hero of the City!"
Why the time-travel aspect of the storyline?
To preserve the original intent of the badge "You began your career on a high note.."
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But you didn't. That's the whole problem. Going back in time to the same time your career started doesn't reverse YOU in time. You're just going to another location, the time is irrelevant as (per your own post), you're level 50. You've done 50 levels of content. Hundred and hundreds of hours of crime fighting. Your career is far from 'fresh'.
The text of the badge is the final word on it. And I support them NOT allowing us to go back and get it. I didn't START my career on a high note. I did what needed to get done and got out of Outbreak.
No matter how you slice it or dice it the badge is very clear as to why it was rewarded. Going back in time doesn't undo everything you've done. It's just relocating your well established hero to the same time they started but is not undoing their career to that point.
Now... all that being said I think it kinda' sucked that they put a badge in like Isolater. They should remove isolator (as realistically the ONLY reason to have hunted that many mobs in Outbreak was for the badge since they don't offer any other reward) and tie it to completing the tutorial or the mission in the tutorial.
That way anyone who's done tutorial gets the badge. The only people this would 'discriminate' against are people who skipped tutorial.
Those would consist of:
1) Older players on new toons. They most likely already know of Isolator and aren't interested. So they wouldn't be getting 'screwed' out of the new badge... they made a conscious choice to skip tutorial.
2) Newbies who think they don't need tutorial. Sorry but not sympathy there. Just like most of us never crack open the games manual and discover a month later that we can do this or that which was covered in the manual, if they opt to skip out of the basic tutorial then they are making a conscious choice to forfeit its content.
Basically, the badge should be related to having completed the tutorial, period.
Isolator: You started your career on a high note. You knuckled up and helped the overwhelmed forces in Outbreak come one step closer to retaking this small area of the city!
Or some such.
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Okay, I have to call Shenanigans, after hearing this stated several times. This is the Suggestions and Ideas forum. Nowhere is it categorically called the "Debate Your Ideas" forum. Thus, all you have to do is come out, post an idea, and then leave it; the devs will look at it and decide whether they like it or not. Nowhere is it said that you have to convince a majority of the forum population in order for an idea to be considered 'cool' by Jack and Co.
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Incorrect, I'm sad to say.
You can suggest whatever you like - but once it gets past hte originating post, the thread becomes a debate ... on the relative merits of that suggestion. At which point, it is beholden upon the pro-change camp to provide that compelling reason.
The "status quo" - IOW, the game as-it-is-now - has the benefit of inertia. If something isn't currently broken, there needs to be a compelling reason to make a change to it, which might subsequently introduce a break into the game.
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People here can say they want Isolator, and the only reason they want it is because their main existed prior to the badge being available; that's justification enough in their eyes. The ones against that concept can say, "No, it's fine the way it is," and that's perfectly justifiable in their eyes. the only failling here is for one side to convince the other, because neither have solid, evidence-supported arguments to sway the opposition.
[/ QUOTE ]
It now falls to convincing the Developers - and I daresay the "leave it alone" angle has presented more compelling reasons not to change Isolator, than the "gimme" camp has presented in their favor.
And I, for one, have given more reason than just "No, it's fine the way it is," thanks. To re-summarise: handing opportunities to get any ONE badge out, cheapens that badge - and should only done if you hand similar opportunities to get ALL limited, no-longer-available badges again. And thus, it cheapens ALL of them. Hallow Spirit, Celebrant, Frozen Fury, you name it.
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Thus, when the devs look at it, both sides are going to be equally balanced on the issue, because neither side has provided any conclusive evidence as to whether the idea is good or bad.
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Only true if you close your eyes and ears to more than half the thread.
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Claiming that all you have to say is, "Them's the breaks," in order to win an argument when someone calls for change is wholly untrue. It just means you, like them, don't have a convincing argument as to why the change should not occur.
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Actually, all I have to say is "the current state is not broken, and I see no compellign reason to institute a change. Give me one, and maybe I'll accept you are correct". I have said more than that, however, and the balance is IMO strongly in favor of "tough luck".
[ QUOTE ]
One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:
1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.
2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)
What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.
For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.
Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.
In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.
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First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.
And as some have stated here, forum goers only comprise a small amount of the player base. Why should the devs care what their common complaint is? (not that I ascribe to this philosophy, in fact, I abhor it. If the Devs did not care, then there would not be a forum.)
The point remains, that for some of the playerbase, Isolator is important enough to us that we will jump through any hoop, grind through whatever godawful TF or mish, kill, crush and / or destroy whatever we have to in order to get it.
We are not asking for a fundamental change to the way the game is played. No nerf nor buff to any powers. We're merely asking for a change of location. No, actually we're asking for an additional location.
There is precedent for such a change. For a long time some of the targets for kill X amount badges were woefully rare. For example, the Warrior Elite were hunted to near extinction on Talos. They were so rare that I myself ran the last mish in the alexander mini arc 87 times to fight the single warrior elite boss.
Then low and behold, along came Striga Island, where many a Warrior Elite frolicked along with Wolves and Vamps and Family bosses and sky raider skiffs. There was much rejoicing.
Speaking of Sky Raider Skiffs, they originally were only appearing in the 24-33 TV Trial. Which some people ran many times to get the required 100.
After Striga was implemented and Terra Volta then sprinkled with skiffs o plenty, were the badges gained by the TV trial alone somehow cheapened? Were people saying 'I quit, they cheapened my badge.'?
Those of us that collect badges have proven time and again that we will do whatever is needed to collect a badge.
We arent asking for the moon, simply that in some far, dusty niche of Paragon City, some contaminated escape from Outbreak. Heck, as I said before, I'd pay for the privledge.
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
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With exemplaring this allowed you to go back and complete certain TFs you missed, Trials..ect..ect.. all in which offered a badge for you to award yourself with once you have completed it.
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I could be mistaken, but I was under the impression that exemplaring was instituted so that high level SG players could play with lower level SG players (or non-SG for that matter). The 'content experience' was an added benefit.
Bloody Axe Inv/Axe - Champion
Dying Cooper Spi/Reg - Champion
Power Rock Stone/EM - Justice
Mistress Magma Fire/Kin - Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
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One of the more common complaints from people on the forums is that simply choosing new powersets is not enough to justify playing through the game. New things to do are needed. The way I see it is that (In my opinion) two important things need to be done:
1) It needs to be impossible to get every single badge on one character.
2) It needs to be impossible to do every single mission with one character. (Or be unable to experience the full scope of the mission if exemplered down/sidekicked up)
What *I* ultimately want to see are branching story arcs, with badges that can't be obtained if you have a different badge.
For example, lets say you have a Contact named... John Jacob Jinglehymer Smith, who asks you to find out what the freaks are up to. The Story arc at some point could branch with a choice. Say, either going to "interrogate" a Freakshow for information, or instead taking a coded message you located to a cryptogropher to decode it.
Your choice would lead to one of two completly different endings, different temp powers, and ultimately a different badge depending on which ending you recieved. Once you got one, you would be unable to get the other for that character.
In the end, I think that would help *improve* the game.
[/ QUOTE ]
First, the topic of the thread is the Isolator badge. If you have nothing constructive or (as far more typically) destructive to add to a suggestion for Isolator, say nothing. If you have an idea for a totally different issue create your own, seperate topic. The above post doesnt belong here.
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Thread drift happens. If you have been following the posts that lead up to that one, it does indeed fit into this thread.
[ QUOTE ]
We are not asking for a fundamental change to the way the game is played. No nerf nor buff to any powers. We're merely asking for a change of location. No, actually we're asking for an additional location.
There is precedent for such a change. For a long time some of the targets for kill X amount badges were woefully rare. For example, the Warrior Elite were hunted to near extinction on Talos. They were so rare that I myself ran the last mish in the alexander mini arc 87 times to fight the single warrior elite boss.
Then low and behold, along came Striga Island, where many a Warrior Elite frolicked along with Wolves and Vamps and Family bosses and sky raider skiffs. There was much rejoicing.
Speaking of Sky Raider Skiffs, they originally were only appearing in the 24-33 TV Trial. Which some people ran many times to get the required 100.
After Striga was implemented and Terra Volta then sprinkled with skiffs o plenty, were the badges gained by the TV trial alone somehow cheapened? Were people saying 'I quit, they cheapened my badge.'?
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You do realize that Striga was not added simply so that badge hounds could get the badges easier, but for the content that it had in it, don't you??
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The Isolator Badge reads:
"You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone."
[/ QUOTE ]Well, that's bogus because I just ran a new hero through the tutorial and there's still hordes of contaminated thugs running amuck in the Outbreak Zone! Bunch o' liars wearing that Isolator Badge there are.
FWIW, I'm all for adding a way for people to get this badge outside the tutorial zone (other than the defeat bug which can send people there). Make it a time travel Portal Corp mission given by one of the contacts who sends you on those missions. People are always asking for more mission types/content. Why couldn't this be one?