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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."
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So, let me see if I understand what youre saying. You think that its reasonable to expect badge hunters to have re-rolled their Main Toons immediately after I2? And if they didnt want to throw away weeks or months of leveling and mission progress for this one badge, thats just too bad for them?
Seriously, is that your point? 
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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?
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Because you were not a subscriber at the time those first special event badges were offered.
There is a fundamental difference between Isolator and the special event badges.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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The third one is because ... as with a newbie in the Tutorial, if you leave without getting the badge, I want you to have missed the damned bus, once and for all and IRREVERSIBLY. The same as said newbie hero popping out to GC or AP.
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Wow, the "I was here from the beginning" elitism is just overwhelming. Perhaps some newbies that came along later didn't know of the existence of Isolator. Whereas, by playing before the badge existed, you were aware of its existence the second it went live.
It's called a learning curve. The time I spent finding out about the boards and the badge guides, I consider equivalent to those around from the beginning who had played for however long and had learned the ropes, and consequently had their ear to the ground and knew the instant that Isolator went live. Some of my favorite toons don't have Isolator. Ditto for a lot of people on this thread. And yet, somehow, life goes on.
I'm alright with badges like Celebrant or the Halloween badges that were around and I wasn't. Going forward, I have the same chance as anyone else for Toy Collector or Snaptooth or Handsome. (The Snow Beast Gladiator was a bit of a sucker punch, but that's the topic for another day.) If I fail to take advantage of the opportunity, I have only myself to blame. What I dislike is the assuption of "I was here from the beginning, therefore CoH OWES me the Isolator badge!" Poppycock!
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The third one is because ... as with a newbie in the Tutorial, if you leave without getting the badge, I want you to have missed the damned bus, once and for all and IRREVERSIBLY. The same as said newbie hero popping out to GC or AP.
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Wow, the "I was here from the beginning" elitism is just overwhelming.
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Funny you should say that, beause I wasn't here from teh beginning. I only started playing during the first week of September, 2005 - just after the release of I5, in fact.
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Perhaps some newbies that came along later didn't know of the existence of Isolator. Whereas, by playing before the badge existed, you were aware of its existence the second it went live.
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First, I wasn't here before the badge existed.
Second - it's a frerakin' ONLINE game. Anyone playing an online game has zero excuse for not doing some reading on the internet about an MMO they're thinking of joining, before putting their money on the line. In which case, you'd know badges existed, would probably at least have an INITIAL impression of wether you cared, and if you cared ... would be entirely able to find out about Isolator, long before making your first character.
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What I dislike is the assuption of "I was here from the beginning, therefore CoH OWES me the Isolator badge!" Poppycock!
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The funny thing is - that is my exact attitude. I don't think they're OWED anything - yet it's me you're levelling the "been here since the dawn of time elitism" accusation against?
Dude. Read a bit more of my posts, would you? Please?
Wow! I bow down before you uberl33tne55. Next time I think about joining a MMO, I'll be sure to PM you to find out all I can learn from you and avoid that game like the plague.
Oh, and while we're dissecting assumptions, I didn't plunk down dime one to start playing CoH. So the fact that I knew about Isolator before my free trial expired blows THAT argument out of the water.
I still like the OP's idea better, but that seems to have been tossed out with baby AND bathwater pages ago.
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Wow! I bow down before you uberl33tne55. Next time I think about joining a MMO, I'll be sure to PM you to find out all I can learn from you and avoid that game like the plague.
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Cut the ad hominems. They don't earn you any points.
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Oh, and while we're dissecting assumptions, I didn't plunk down dime one to start playing CoH. So the fact that I knew about Isolator before my free trial expired blows THAT argument out of the water.
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Nope, because it's still an ONLINE game. The ability to play inherently includes the ability to do some reading on the web. Heck, I'd look at your friend who GAVE you the free trial, and ask them "why didn't you tell me about Isolator?!?"
No go-back option for post-I2 characters who simply declined the opportunity; I've put the effort into getting Isolator during the tutorial, and don't want the value of that effort reduced in ANY way by, yes, lazy players who chose not to get the badge during the Tutorial, and/or who skipped the tutorial altogether. They made the choice, they get to live with the consequences.
Oh, and if you're SMART about it ... really, it's pretty easy to get Isolator: finish all the missions but DON'T talk to the last contact after rescuing Flower Knight; take your now combat-level-2 character back to the contaminated zone, and continue bashing thugs until you get your badge; with the +1 combat level, you'd be AMAZED how quickly you can rip through 'em ... plus, you've already gotten maybe 1/5 to 1/4 of the way there, just doing the MINIMUM for your other Tutorial missions.
Hey Pax. ^_^
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A regular mission opportunity as you describe does not limit the "go back and get it, after all" opportunity to Pre-I2 characters only; it throws the gates wide open for anyone to go and get it again.
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OooOoo, no, I think maybe there's a misunderstanding. What I'm saying is more along the lines of "Look, if we are going to at least put together a mission to make Isolator available again, then that mission should also double as usable content for everyone else." You don't get the badge for completing the mission; rather, it's a mission in which there just so happen to be a lot of Contaminated that you can use to get the badge.
My thinking is, it's self-defeating to make content unavailable without good reason. (Branching storylines = good reason; arbitrary date limit = bad). And to my mind, if any content is made specifically to address this situation, it would be wholeheartedly hypocritical to then prevent *everyone else* from accessing it.
Also, if I understand correctly, I think you'd want this to be available only to pre-I2 characters... which, as stated in the earlier discussion concerning datamining, may well not be something that is possible to test for. ("Have you got the Isolator badge already?" yes / no. "When was this character created?" Uhh... do we have that information?)
Now, having said all that; I was completely unaware of the matter of the 'dueling monkies' in the Snaptooth mission. To that end, considering some of the other weirdness that goes on in and around Pocket D, it may well just be a case of dropping some Contaminated appropriately into a particular setting. So there's potential for even less effort involved in the solution.
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I object to any such change of text, also.
The entire point of Isolator is that it is the FIRST in-game opportunity to earn a badge which a character (made post-I2) can earn. That is intrinsic in it's very existance. To change the text and eliminate that reference would destroy the badge itself.
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Well, I don't think it will be *quite* that cataclysmic. ^_^ I do understand though; that there are many possible solutions, they almost all will require that the text be updated in a manner that basically renders it somewhat more generic; and this would undoubtedly take away some from what it is that makes the badge special.
There's a couple of other questions to be raised here. Whilst it may be possible to find a solution that does not require changing the badge, it doesn't seem awfully likely. Therefore; should the badge be changed? More importantly; is the argument against change one based on maintaining a status quo? (e.g. the SWG combat-system argument.) What would be the ramifications of such a change; widespread revile, or joyous celebration in the quarter of the non-Isolators?
But really, I think it's the status quo argument that is the interesting one. On the one hand, the SWG incident is highly compelling; despite the fact that the change in the combat system was much needed and critically heralded, it was none the less cited as a chief proponent in mass subscription migration - primarily because players were not willing to accept a radical change in the system they knew so well. Essentially, upsetting the status quo - even in a good way - resulted in a marked revenue decrease for the game.
On the other hand, the Isolator badge is of considerably less importance than something as fundamental as combat mechanics; and furthermore, whilst one could describe the badge as 'a fun Easter Egg', it still stands as an issue of some contention on the part of the older contingent of players. Like I said before; why bite the hand that feeds? And yet at the same time; would making the badge available be a surefire way to decrease alt rolling and potentially, subscriptions?
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Any opportunity for anyone to get Isolator post-tutorial must, IMO, meet these four non-negotiable criteria:
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Let's roll. ^_^
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It must be limited, solely and exclusively, wihtout exception, to those character who never had the opportunity to earn Isolator the "approved" way - meaning, those created before Issue 2;
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I'm not even sure if this is going to be feasible; basically it depends on being able to track the creation date of each character. Maybe that information is in the CoX databases; maybe not. Who are we to tell? But certainly, without it, this may be a bit of a non-starter.
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It must require EFFORT to acquire - effort commensurate with the effort of killing 100 level-one Contaminated with (at best) a Security(1)/Combat(2)-levelled character;
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I don't know about the exact number; I think we were talking earlier about how some of the badge requirements are, well... just a bit high. But putting that aside, I do believe and agree that whatever effort goes into achieving the badge at second showing should be identical to the degree of effort required first time around.
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It must be a one chance only, no re-attempts allowed scenario; once you leave the "do-over" mission or whatever, you must not be allowed to return (ideally, there would be a hospital IN the mission, of course);
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Hmm; I don't know. What if you get DCed? It's one thing to miss the bus because you couldn't be bothered to get to the stop early; it's another thing entirely when the bus drives off a bridge.
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It must involve precisely zero alteration to the existing badge text.
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"You began your career on a high note, by personally ending the riots of contaminated thugs in the Outbreak Zone." I just don't know if that is something that is going to be possible. But there are forumgoers much better at this stuff than I, I'm sure they could think of something. (Perhaps the mission in the case could take the form of a 'personal flashback'?)
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And the last one, well ... because I'm willing to be a complete d*ck and protect the accomplishment of a coupleof my heroes, who DID start their careers on the described "high point"; I want the badge to CONTINUE to ascribe that very achievement to the badge-wearer.
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I admire your honesty. No, seriously. ^_^ This very much reminds me of the talk about the Zookeeper badge also; there are those that want the bar lowered, because it's too difficult to reach; and there are those that want it to stay exactly where it is, as a testement to their own ability. You can't have any kind of measure of excellence without a division between those that can and those that can't.
...
I just erased four paragraphs of why it is I'm idelogically opposed to the manner in which Isolator gains its... for want of a better word, 'exclusivity'. I realised I was falling into the same rut again - talking about what I feel is 'right and wrong', rather than what is best for this game, and for the players. ^_^
Personally, I would still like to move the discussion more towards the realm of "How is this going to benefit or harm the game, its players and its finances?" rather than how my personal principled take on this situation is more valid than anyone elses. I simply don't have enough support in my own righteousness to warrent further discussion on the matter through the lens of my own beliefs.
Heck, if you are familiar with the Landmark Forum, then you might have heard this - or something like this - before:
People want to be happy; but more than that, they want to be right.
Hmm, so... what would be the best solution outside of our own personal feelings of what we believe in and what would be the way we see as 'right'? What would be the best possible solution in terms of the customers, the game, and the Developers?
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Time-travel: The more I thought about this, the more I realised it's not such a bad idea for a mission; the only caveat is that any sort of time-travel story needs to take place an instanced variation of Outbreak, rather than the actual tutorial zone.
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This would be a great idea. You would start back with only your first 2 attacks and brawl. Not even rest. I would so go for this
It is still elitism, and no matter the bending over backwards to avoid the question, suggesting that the devs go back and slip something to the Pre I2 toons implies that something is owed them!
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Oh, and if you're SMART about it
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...you get in an Isolator group and have the kills just rolling in at 8X your quick but still slow level-2 solo rate. 
And you can tell others about the badge at the same time, introducing them to more of the incredible rich content in the game.
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Zydane added:
Ok, I don't know much about datamining, but I do know you're over thinking this idea you just said. Why are we worried about after I2 getting the badge, if they're looking for a specific date then have a program run for example something like
Search Dates "1-1-02" through "12-31-02"
(not sure when I2 came out, just using this for example)
Ok there's the dates it searches for account creation
Now the hard part would be knowing which toons were made before the date I2 came out, not sure if they keep track of that, but if they do then just use the same example above on the accounts that match the search criteria, if the toon was created before a certain date, then that one and one only should get the badge.
Yet if they don't keep track of toon creation then that could cause a problem.
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Well, I don't know if I'm overthinking it. ^_^ I'm just trying to illustrate the inherent problems in datamining; especially as, having been used previously to solve a couple of problems, it is now (mistakenly) viewed by some as a sort of miracle cure. And that's an impression I'd like to alter, if only by means of showing some of the possible steps that might actually take place in a datamining operation. ^_^
I think we are both on the same page in regards to the idea that should there be no character creation date, than using datamining to award the badge becomes if not impossible, at least an infinately trickier prospect. I think the crux of the matter is - and I do not have first hand knowledge of the CoX databases to back this up, it's just a reasoned guess - that personally, I don't think the character creation date is something that is recorded. And I would be quite happy to discover I am wrong about this. ^_^
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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Actually, devs, please retrofit it in I7 so Isolator unlocks trenchcoats and a Hamidon gladiator badge.
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Pax_Arcana threw out a great idea:
Throw some story-twist into that: have your hero showup, and save his own level-one alternate's backside from a "Contaminated+" attack, explain the situation (hey, if you can't trust "yourself" with the secret, you're in deeper trouble than you thought!!). Then ... team up with yourself (the NPC-you gts boosted to one level below you, as if he were sidekicked), and go do a series of missions together. For the sake of "fun", I'd even say ... make the alternate-you a "pet", with full MM controls. Give non-MMs a taste of what it's REALLY like to be in the driver's seat. ^_^
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I just thought I would add, I love this idea! ^_^ Not only is it fun for non-Masterminds to enjoy some of the remote-control aspects, but this could also be a really great way to 'advertise' different ATs within the game - not thought of rolling an MM, or a Brute, or a Blaster, or a Defender? Well, here's a test drive... do you want to roll one now? Maybe you would like to go pick up a copy of City of Villains today? ^_^
As a further aside, implementing the MM control system for an NPC should be relatively easy. I say *should*; there have been issues in the past that I thought were relatively easy to deal with, and Cryptic have stated otherwise. I'm not sure if this means I have unreasonable expectations; or if the Developers are human beings with human foibles, and occasionally make mistakes. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Anyway, the control system... it might need to be simplified a little; but on the plus side, it could also be extended for use with *all* ally NPCs, which would be a nice bonus. ^_^
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Now, yes, I said "a few missions". I'm thinking of this as a Task Force, not just a simple mission. Yes, with it's own seperate, anyone-gets-it badge ("Re-Isolator" ... ^_^).
For us post-I2's, it's just a new TF with a DARNED NEAT story to it (including being able to "SK yourself", heh), and a fun badge.
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This is much my thinking. ^_^ If there is any plan - any plan whatsoever - to inject a mission, or TF, of some kind in order to award or allow the awarding of the Isolator badge to players - then it's only fair and appropriate that the same content serves as a regular mission to everyone else. ^_^ Hmm, I need a campaign slogan... "Content for all?" ^___^
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And, here's the catch ... you don't need Peregrine Island or Portal Corps ...! You need Paragon Dance Party ...! ^_^ That means, you could even have it be a Hero/Villain cooperative strike-force - the heroes get to stop an Outbreak (again), the Villains get a sample of the improved virus!!
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Yep, totally. ^_^ I keep forgetting that we have Pocket D now serving as an interdimensional nexus to wherever where; it's not necessary to do this stuff via Portal Corps. as we have our very own gateway to everywhere serving that role instead. ^_^
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There are some that would object even to that - my mate, for example, wouldn't even like that, or ANY way for pre-I2's to get Isolator. In her words, as mine earlier - "what about US, and the Event badges?"
I can see her point, and honestly, I agree - but the above scenario is one I would at least find palatable, albeit not preferable. I'd still prefer you guys remain S.O.L. for Isolator, and be given a "Golden Age" badge instead. No offense, mind.
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Random aside; the idea of a "Golden Age" or similar non-Isolator replacement badge is kind of fun; the only problem I can imagine is the complaints from the old-timers (potentially myself included) that rerolled their characters in order to get Isolator the moment I2 came out! ^_^ There's no pleasing all of the people all of the time, eh? ^_^
As for the Event badges... well, now we have several catagories of badge, I would surmise, based on their availability. You've got the badges that are:
* Available all the time: (Defeat X, history badges, etc.)
* Available in certain missions: (Spelunker, War Wall Defender.)
* Available in the tutorials: (Isolator, Jail Bird.)
* Event badges: (Halloween Badges, Frozen Fury.)
Event badges seem to be a whole other matter of interest; it is possible to get every other badge by rolling a new character; but the event badges are a one-time bus analogy. ^_^ What I find particularly interesting is this: whilst the events themselves took place only once with no promise of repeated future antics, they have also been tied to real-world annual events. (Halloween, Xmas, Valentine's Day.) So to that end, the real-world events are repeated each year; would it be appropriate in that context to repeat some of the in-game events too? (which would also make most use of existing and otherwise dormant game assets.)
Wow. I've got the badge on some of my 20+ characters, but I've never seen so much passion involving some pixels on a screen. I was thinking of printing a picture of it, and taping it on my monitor for all of my characters made before I2, so they would not be jealous of my alts... then I remembered they're all make-believe. 
Since this is my first MMO, was there this much passion about some other small virtual thing in another game? Man, I bet I could make a killing on Ebay if I could figure out how to sell Isolator to people who still wanted it...
I have an idea! No wait...it's just gas.
Hellscorp
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Hey Pax. ^_^
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A regular mission opportunity as you describe does not limit the "go back and get it, after all" opportunity to Pre-I2 characters only; it throws the gates wide open for anyone to go and get it again.
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OooOoo, no, I think maybe there's a misunderstanding. What I'm saying is more along the lines of "Look, if we are going to at least put together a mission to make Isolator available again, then that mission should also double as usable content for everyone else." You don't get the badge for completing the mission; rather, it's a mission in which there just so happen to be a lot of Contaminated that you can use to get the badge.
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Which would allow anyone, not just pre-I2 characters, to get the badge through THAT mission. Therein lays my objection to "just throw some Contaminated into a mission or three" solutions.
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Well, I don't think it will be *quite* that cataclysmic. ^_^
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It would be to me. Right now, IMO, anyoen who has that badge candisplay that they have been persistent and determined, and done more than theminimum to complete theri missions and move on, from the very start, in the Tutorial. That's something special, IMO.
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It must be limited, solely and exclusively, wihtout exception, to those character who never had the opportunity to earn Isolator the "approved" way - meaning, those created before Issue 2;
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I'm not even sure if this is going to be feasible; basically it depends on being able to track the creation date of each character. Maybe that information is in the CoX databases; maybe not. Who are we to tell? But certainly, without it, this may be a bit of a non-starter.
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Well, here's my Occam's Razor: if it's not feasible to limit it to pre-I2 only, don't do it at all. Like I said, for me, those criteria are non-negotiable.
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It must require EFFORT to acquire - effort commensurate with the effort of killing 100 level-one Contaminated with (at best) a Security(1)/Combat(2)-levelled character;
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I don't know about the exact number; I think we were talking earlier about how some of the badge requirements are, well... just a bit high. But putting that aside, I do believe and agree that whatever effort goes into achieving the badge at second showing should be identical to the degree of effort required first time around.
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If the requirement is dropped, then of course, the effort required of pre-I@'s could and shold be dropped by a commensurate amount. But, I put that one in there because there were a few people that wERe saying "just give it to us, no mission/effort involved".
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It must be a one chance only, no re-attempts allowed scenario; once you leave the "do-over" mission or whatever, you must not be allowed to return (ideally, there would be a hospital IN the mission, of course);
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Hmm; I don't know. What if you get DCed? It's one thing to miss the bus because you couldn't be bothered to get to the stop early; it's another thing entirely when the bus drives off a bridge.
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Set it up as it'sown, only-entered-this-way ZONE. Thus, if you get DCed orhave to log off for whatever reason - when you log back on, there you are, still. But if you physically and MANUALLY leave the zone/area ... then, just like leaving the tutorial ... sucks to be you, there's no going back.
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And the last one, well ... because I'm willing to be a complete d*ck and protect the accomplishment of a coupleof my heroes, who DID start their careers on the described "high point"; I want the badge to CONTINUE to ascribe that very achievement to the badge-wearer.
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I admire your honesty. No, seriously. ^_^ This very much reminds me of the talk about the Zookeeper badge also; there are those that want the bar lowered, because it's too difficult to reach; and there are those that want it to stay exactly where it is, as a testement to their own ability. You can't have any kind of measure of excellence without a division between those that can and those that can't.
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In the case of that, I think they should have done it this way: change the EXISTING Zookeeper badges very slightly (rename it to "Original Zookeeper" maybe; tag a little gold star on the graphic; poof, done). That way, those who'd earned it "the old, harder way" woudl still be able to show off THEIR achievement, but the easier benchmark could still be implemented.
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Hmm, so... what would be the best solution outside of our own personal feelings of what we believe in and what would be the way we see as 'right'? What would be the best possible solution in terms of the customers, the game, and the Developers?
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The "Re-Isolator Task Force" idea above, I could go for (my expansion on another poster's idea, I mean). Everyone can get ONE badge from it - and the pre-I2's could get TWO badges - Re-Isolator and the original Isolator. The's the lesser of several evils - done the way I describe it, at least noone POST-I2 could get Isolator "after the fact".
Assuming, as you have pointed out, that "date of creation" is stored in the database on a per-character basis.
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It is still elitism, and no matter the bending over backwards to avoid the question, suggesting that the devs go back and slip something to the Pre I2 toons implies that something is owed them!
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Bite me. I've been consistently OPPOSED to the very idea of awarding Isolator by ANY pos-tutorial means. Unlike you, however, I am willing - for the sake of argument - to entertain the thought of "well if it HAD to happen, is there a way that would upset me the LEAST?"
...
Reading comprehension. Get some.
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Oh, and if you're SMART about it
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...you get in an Isolator group and have the kills just rolling in at 8X your quick but still slow level-2 solo rate. And you can tell others about the badge at the same time, introducing them to more of the incredible rich content in the game.
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Group or no group, it's still faster if everyoen does their MISSIONS first, and thumps thugs at CLev2. Besides, I'm usually on after midnight, when server populations are woefully LOW. Grouping in the tutorial isn't always an option.
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.
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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."
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You're kidding right? Ok, lets say for example, you had a pre-I2 toon that was lvl 45. I2 comes out, and a special event happens, you get the badge for it and then you found out there's a badge in the tutorial. Now you're gonna tell me and every one else that you're gonna throw away those months of leveling and play time and badges collected (and probably can't get back, the special event ones anyway) for one badge? No you're probably not, so that is not the best solution for this "problem" I guess you could call it.
Plus I wouldn't call it "special treatment" just giving someone a fair chance is all.
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That might sound mean, but it's the truth. Now if the devs want to put the Halloween badges back in there (for example) and you have to earn them like the others did then that's fine, but no one should be given the badge cause they weren't playing then.
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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?
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Again that is not a good solution, those were event specific badges, now if the devs allow you to go back and get those, I believe it would cheapen those badges. Isolator on the other hand is still in the docks, as someone put it, and for someone to not have a fair chance to get it, even though they were playing at the time is unfair.
To you saying if I would go back and get Isolator if given the chance, yes I would, being I didn't know about it and found out about it 3 weeks after I started playing, and I wasn't going to re-roll my toon just for that badge.
Yet I wouldn't go back and get the special event ones, it would make no sense for me to get those badges when I wasn't around for that event.
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Even if they get the badge by not earning it I wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm not going back on what I said earlier about if you didn't earn it you shouldn't have it, for all we know the pre-I2 players with toons pre-I2 would have done what was needed to get the badge.
I say the devs should either just give them the badge or give them a chance to earn it, that would be the fair thing to do.
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I would prefer te status quo was maintained, BUT, the scenario I've agreed to above would be ... let's call it "the scenario that would offend me least". Mainly because, well ... at least I would get another badge and some new content out of it, too.
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I have no problem with the devs fixing something for the pre-I2 toons to get a fair chance at Isolator, and give post I2 toons new content, that would be a good idea.
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I'm sorry the Developers decided to put a badge solely in teh Tutorial, with no city-wide special event planned to let post-tutorial characters have a shot at the badge. I'm sorry the developers never thought to provide some OTHER means to acquire the badge, "way back when".
But that doesn't change the fact that just handing it out, willy-nilly, goes against the grain of earned badges - and giving ANY sort of "oops, you missed it, here's a second chance" setup for ANY limited-opportunity does leave a sour taste in the mouth for many of us who missed OTHER neat badges with limited acquisition opportunities.
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This is also where we differ, I'm not saying the devs should just hand out the badge all willy nilly, if they make it so the pre-I2 toons have to earn it that would be fine, but if they just gave it to them I would have no problem with that either.
What sour taste? You weren't playing then, I wasn't playing then, that is our own fault, not the devs, not the pre-I2 players, OURS. I don't expect to be given the special event badges or a chance to earn them. I have no problem with that, I missed my opportunity to get those badges. Like I said Isolator is a different scenario, it's still in the harbor (sorry for analogy stealing lol) but it is there, grant if you leave the tutorial you can't go back, but in a sense you can.
If you're lvl 2 you would have no problem starting over. Yet if you're lvl 50, you're not gonna start all over for one badge, lose special badges you can't get back just for the one that came out, when you were playing and didn't have a fair shot at.
That's my thought on this, it isn't about giving the badge cause you just forgot it, it's about giving everyone a fair chance at the badge, including pre-I2 toons.
Also (sorry for the long post) but removing Isolator would cause more problems. If the devs allow people who have Isolator to keep it, and remove it, that would be unfair to new players. This should be about fairness for everyone.
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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Fair enough. Puretone, go get mah gun!
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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.
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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."
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You're kidding right? Ok, lets say for example, you had a pre-I2 toon that was lvl 45. I2 comes out, and a special event happens, you get the badge for it and then you found out there's a badge in the tutorial. Now you're gonna tell me and every one else that you're gonna throw away those months of leveling and play time and badges collected (and probably can't get back, the special event ones anyway) for one badge? No you're probably not, so that is not the best solution for this "problem" I guess you could call it.
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As I understand it, I2 was live for at least an entire month before the Halloween event happened.
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To you saying if I would go back and get Isolator if given the chance, yes I would, being I didn't know about it and found out about it 3 weeks after I started playing, and I wasn't going to re-roll my toon just for that badge.
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A choice you made; the consequences of that choice are yours to live with, sorry.
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So why is it it seems that a lot of people feel like pre-I2 toons shouldn't get Isolator? That whole "Well if they can get Isolator, we should get the event badges". No you shouldn't get the event badges, by the time those badges came out there had to be some magazine ad you saw about CoH, you weren't playing then, that's your problem, not pre-I2 people.
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In response: when I2 came out, "you could have re-rolled your character right away and gotten Isolator. You had an entire month to level such re-rolled charactes up, before the first event even happened. Then you could have had every badge, with ZERO special treatment."
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You're kidding right? Ok, lets say for example, you had a pre-I2 toon that was lvl 45. I2 comes out, and a special event happens, you get the badge for it and then you found out there's a badge in the tutorial. Now you're gonna tell me and every one else that you're gonna throw away those months of leveling and play time and badges collected (and probably can't get back, the special event ones anyway) for one badge? No you're probably not, so that is not the best solution for this "problem" I guess you could call it.
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As I understand it, I2 was live for at least an entire month before the Halloween event happened.
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To you saying if I would go back and get Isolator if given the chance, yes I would, being I didn't know about it and found out about it 3 weeks after I started playing, and I wasn't going to re-roll my toon just for that badge.
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A choice you made; the consequences of that choice are yours to live with, sorry.
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You're missing the point I was making with the first example. If someone had a pre-I2 toon lvl 35 and up, why should they have to re-roll a toon, and spend all that time to get back to lvl 35 for one badge.
Now if they had a pre-I2 toon that was say lvl 5 to 10 I could understand re-rolling then, but not when you've spent all that time getting your toon to lvl 35 and up.
That's what I'm saying, if the toon is way up in lvl, and as some have said they had a toon pretty high up there when badges where implamented then they shouldn't be punished for lvling up to a high lvl.
Personally I'm not worried bout Isolator, all my alts have it, so I'm ok with my main not having it. I'm just saying for the people with pre-I2 toons that were high lvl and not having a fair chance at the badge is unfair.
Plus no matter what way you argue it, it's a waste of time spent for someone to re-roll a high lvl toon for a badge. High lvl in my opinion being 30 and up.
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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Fair enough. Puretone, go get mah gun!
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I'll get the pliers.
Down with Islolator! Up with People!
Not wanting to read everything in this ongoing flamewar, I have a suggestion:
A level 1-5 TaskForce. Make it as long as Positron, longer in fact as there would be no travel or pool powers (unless you are a Kheld, but that is no different than now). Have it in Atlas, Galaxy, Kings Row and the Hollows. Have portals (in door missions) spew a few contaminated, but do not award the Isolator for the contaminated, but for completing the TF. For those that have the Isolator already, give a temp power.
Ok, lets see:
New content - Check.
Provides a way to get Isolator - Check.
Mostly preserves Isolators text - Check. The 1st 5 levels are the start of a toons career.
Long, dangerous, but gives a valid reward for the same - Check.
Provide some alternatives to starting toons - Check.
Properly introduce badges to new players - Check.
Shut up the nay-sayers - Nothing will ever do that.
Look on the same nay-sayers face's if the Developers do this: Priceless.
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
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Remove the isolator badge.
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Agreed. If it'll stop this ridiculous arguement they can have mine back.
Take it completely out of the game. Problem solved.
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Down with the isolator badge! Nurf it in I7!
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... when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
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Fair enough. Puretone, go get mah gun!
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::Gets Liquid his gun::
::Keeps the ammunition::
::Feigns innocent look::
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
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There's already a precedent.. "Privateer" badge. Sky Raider skiffs were added in response to player requests. The devs so far havent introduced any system to this game that punishes for any past effort. That some (in a lack of faith in Dev reasonableness) chose to reroll is entirely their own choice. It was not one forced on them.
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Wrong precedent.
Those player requests were made because the Sky Raider Skiffs didn't exist in sufficient numbers, anywhere, for that badge to be obtained by any means, EXCEPT through farming.
Isolator, OTOH ...? Outbreak has well more than 100 Contaminated, who respawn quickly enough that even a few of fourty or more new characters moving through the zone, couldn't POSSIBLE reach a span of mroe than ... say, five seconds, where there were no more Contaminated to fight, AND, one or more of them hadn't gotten the badge yet.
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I wouln't expect to be just GIVEN the badges, but you have to admit - if "you" (in the sweeping, generalist sense) get a special mission to go back and get Isolator, why shouldn't someone like "us" (also in the generalist sense) get a special mission that provides an opportunity for THOSE badges?
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That is indeed a case of 'missed the boat' Isolator is one of 'the boat's still in the harbor and passengers are still boarding'.
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... at the sign marked "new customers only" (with "customer" in this case meaning "character", of course).
I, at least, am willing to bend in on or both of these ways:
[*] the alternate-dimension, Villain/Hero Cooperative "Task Force" from Pocket-D, awarding a new TF/SF badge and offering meloads of new and interesting content ...
[*] award the pre-I2's with "Golden Age" instead of giving them a chance at Isolator.
Personally, the second of the two is the one that I'd prefer. Occam's Razor and all. And if badge count is what's important ... it solves THAT, too. As for "complete the set" - what that does is create MULTIPLE DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE SET. You couldn't HAVE both "Golden Age Hero" and "Isolator" on the same character, except via certain rather unlikely and probably very RARE circumstances (a character made mid-august pre-I2, and left sitting in Outbreak until mid-September post-I2, is the only non-bugged way I can imagine).