[ QUOTE ]
You provide circular arguements. You're taking whatever stance that lands you in opposition to any idea. On one hand you agree with this post..
[...]
Yet you then disagree with its implementation. Circular arguement is no arguement.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was agreeing with the part of that post that suggested choice of path affects opportunity for badges/etc, in an irrevocable, unreversible way. My apologies if I was not sufficiently clear on that - but I am hardly using circular logic or being inconsistent in my position.
My position - to sum it up in as few words as possible - is this:
It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair. However, I personally believe once you miss the bus, YOU MISS THE BUS, and there should not be ANY "do-over" opportunities made or given especially to recover missed badges.
[ QUOTE ]
1. Under my proposal, each badge is still earned. You must complete a mission to earn the badge or temp power. It is not 'something for nothing'
[/ QUOTE ]
All your proposal does is give those that miss - OR DECLINED TO GET - Isolator, a chance to cath their badge-count up to those who DID put in the time and effort, post-I2, to get Isolator.
And to those that got Isolator? You give a temp power. Whoop-de-DOO, Pure; that's what clued me in that badge count is what you're truly worried about; your proposal says "Do this mission and the guys who're short a badge, GET AN EXTRA ONE".
[ QUOTE ]
2. For the record, I'm not a badge exclusivist. I would love to see an opportunity to earn some of the previous kill x badges that were effort rewards during special events. I think that anyone wanting a badge that requires some sort of effort should have that opportunity. Perhaps next Halloween Paragon City and the Isles will be littered with glowing pumpkins.
[/ QUOTE ]
I honestly hope not. I hope that the precise same event is NEVER repeated again.
[ QUOTE ]
3. the fact remains that Isolator is not a special event badge. It is not a 'log in and get it' badge. The only one that closely resembles it is the sky skiff badge. sky skiffs were part of the 24-33 TV trial. anyone over 33 could not get it. The devs added the skiffs to the Terra Volta zone in response.
[/ QUOTE ]
The fact remains, Isolator is defined by the developers as a "limited opportunity badge" - which is what they call Event badges too. I say this due to their comments regarding Isolator, etc, never being required for an accolade.
"Limited opportunity" inherently andintrinsicly means if you didn't get it THEN, you don't get it EVER.
[ QUOTE ]
(Zookeeper is not a comparable badge. People got heartburn because the requirements to get it.. 1000 as opposed to 10000.. were lowered. Even though they were made tougher than when 10000 was required.)
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure, it is comparable. Thebadge went from: "Jump through these flaming hoops like a good little poodle, and keep jumping until we say STOP" ... to: "Okay, go do a lot of fighting".
A badge that was very difficult and tedious to get, became EASIER to get.
Your proposals would - all of them - essentially do the same with Isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Liquid... barring the badge what would have been the point? Outside of the badge there's still no point.
I get the principle... but the fact is had the badge been avail then or we had the advance notice... those of us who do get every badge we can would have invested the time in.
[/ QUOTE ]
So? If you didn't earn it, you didn't earn it. Even if you didn't "know" about it. Odds are, any new player to the game won't know about it either, so they shouldn't have it retroactively awarded to them just because "they didn't know about it".
[/ QUOTE ]
Why are you so scared of them awarding this to toons who weren't given the CHANCE to earn it?
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?
Your argument doesn't hold water and make sense anymore than my scenario would. You can't tell us we should only get it for having beat 100 outbreak mobs when at the time there was NO POINT in it.
You wouldn't ask for that bonus on your plan because at the time it didn't exist and there'd have been no point to ask for it.
The point we're trying to make is that had it been available at the time, we'd have it.
I don't have a hero-side toon post I2 that doesN'T have it. I think I can prove it's something I would have invested the time it.
However at the time there was no reason to sit around hunting 100 mobs in tutorial. So you can't hold that against us.
[ QUOTE ]
It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair. However, I personally believe once you miss the bus, YOU MISS THE BUS, and there should not be ANY "do-over" opportunities made or given especially to recover missed badges.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's NOT.
We're not asking to go back for a badge we 'missed'.
We're asking for a badge we were denied the CHANCE to get.
THERE WAS NO REASON PRE-I2 TO BEAT 100 MOBS IN OUTBREAK.
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.
The Halloween mobs no longer exist. Isolator is an ON-GOING, NON-EVENT badge that anyone who rolls a new toon can get.
This was denied existing toons. It should have been rewarded to all toons the second badges hit since we wouldn't have the chance to earn it.
Your argument would be great to cover say accomplishment/mission badges. (Though running the mission with someone else allows for the badge.)
Aside from event-related badges there's not a single ongoing badge you CAN'T get.
Hunt-x's can still be gotten by anyone.
Healing, damage, held, debt etc.
History, exploration.
If someone has the mission, you can get it.
Isolator is the only ongoing you can't. This made worse by the fact that it was introduce well after the game was.
That is completely different than a badge that is only available for a limited time based around a limited-time SPECIAL EVENT.
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But Liquid... barring the badge what would have been the point? Outside of the badge there's still no point.
I get the principle... but the fact is had the badge been avail then or we had the advance notice... those of us who do get every badge we can would have invested the time in.
[/ QUOTE ]
So? If you didn't earn it, you didn't earn it. Even if you didn't "know" about it. Odds are, any new player to the game won't know about it either, so they shouldn't have it retroactively awarded to them just because "they didn't know about it".
[/ QUOTE ]
Why are you so scared of them awarding this to toons who weren't given the CHANCE to earn it?
[/ QUOTE ]
The suggestions here would NOT be limited only to characters made pre-I2. They would be available to anyone who didn't have Isolator.
And I'm not scared of the idea, I am offended by it.
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it says "New customers only". Thus, I am disqualified, sucks to be me, oh well.
[ QUOTE ]
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, that's STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE. Most special deals like that state, clearly and up-front, "new customers only".
[ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want, but, the suggestions for "some contact should give a mission that has Contaminated in it" is in absolutely no way limited only to Pre-I2 characters.
Which is why the suggestion I made in this thread - some thirty seven pages ago - was to give the pre-I2 characters their own, exclusive badge .... instead of Isolator. Something only THEY could have .... "Golden Age Hero" was one of the names suggested for that.
And since it'd involve some quick, relatively-easy datamining ... it could be limited SOLELY to characters made before I2.
The problem with all the bloody other suggestions here is, as I've said already, THEY ARE NOT LIMITED TO PRE-I2 CHARACTERS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. Anyone who simply chose not to get Isolator would be able to run the mission and go back to get a badge they missed.
[ QUOTE ]
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's inherently and intrinsicly "... for NEW CUSTOMERS only ..."
I wanted to comment on one thing here:
[ QUOTE ]
It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a huge, personal, and in my opinion invalid assumption. Put on your skis, and watch out for the jump at the bottom of that slippery slope - it's a doozy.
There are several things that I agreed on in your previous post, but this argument's nigh-crystal clear representation of the classic slippery slope fallacy comes close to invalidating your other arguments to my eyes.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it says "New customers only". Thus, I am disqualified, sucks to be me, oh well.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, answer the scenario AS I PRESENTED IT. Don't change it to fit your argument. As I presented it, it's illegal. They couldn't do it. They would HAVE TO allow you to get it.
They could ONLY hold it against you if it required either a difference in your monthly rate plan or if it was LIMITED TIME promotion. Beyond that, they'd have to allow for it to be taken to their existing customer on that plan.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?
[/ QUOTE ]
Dude, that's STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE. Most special deals like that state, clearly and up-front, "new customers only".
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, you're adding to my scenario to make it fit your argument. Read what I said above.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want, but, the suggestions for "some contact should give a mission that has Contaminated in it" is in absolutely no way limited only to Pre-I2 characters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh huh... and quote ONE post of mine where I sign off on a mission ok'ing us to get Isolator. *I* am asking for it to be awarded outright to all toons who were built PRE-I2. I DON'T believe in a mission to go back and get it. I DO know had I been made aware of it before the badges I WOULD have invested the time to get it. I can prove that quite easily with EVERY HERO toon I have made after I2. They ALL have Isolator wether or not I hunt badges with them simply because if I ever change my mind I CAN'T go back to get isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
Which is why the suggestion I made in this thread - some thirty seven pages ago - was to give the pre-I2 characters their own, exclusive badge .... instead of Isolator. Something only THEY could have .... "Golden Age Hero" was one of the names suggested for that.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with that is... people will STILL want Isolator. I'd gladly take a different badge in it's place. Especially one that gave me the credit of being a 'Golden Age Hero'. That'd be a badge of honor. However, I'd still want Isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
And since it'd involve some quick, relatively-easy datamining ... it could be limited SOLELY to characters made before I2.
[/ QUOTE ]
Same could be said about my suggestion about Isolator.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with all the bloody other suggestions here is, as I've said already, THEY ARE NOT LIMITED TO PRE-I2 CHARACTERS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. Anyone who simply chose not to get Isolator would be able to run the mission and go back to get a badge they missed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh huh, and as I've said I do NOT support 'going back and getting it' since the badge states you STARTED your career... going BACK and getting it would make the badge purpose moot. HOWEVER it's not right nor fair that pre-i2 characters are not allowed to get it. It should just be outright awarded. A mission would be useless semantics 'forcing' us to earn it. It'd require them building a new mission etc for it when we know damned well once that's done anyone who wants it is going to get it anyway. It's not a hard badge to get nor is it that time consuming. The investment in building a mission around getting it is a waste of time.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's inherently and intrinsicly "... for NEW CUSTOMERS only ..."
[/ QUOTE ]
Says who? You. Show me a red-name post that says Isolator is for new customers only.
Oh wait... I'm not a new customer. Been here since about two weeks after release and can get it on any new toon I roll. 
So no, it's not new customers only. It's new toons only which is discriminatory against toons made before that.
The reason States said it would never be tied to an accolade is because he CAN'T do that unless he gave it to all pre-i2 toons and made it available for newbies who aren't aware of it in Outbreak.
That would completely screw up his have/have-not philosophy and would instantly turn a 'useless bauble' into 'loot'. It would be something you could get that would give you the ability to give your toon an advantage someone else doesn't have. As it is now... they can 'ignore' the issue. After all, it's just a 'useless bauble'.
[ QUOTE ]
I wanted to comment on one thing here:
[ QUOTE ]
It is an all-or-nothing affair; if you can go back for ONE badge you missed, then you should be able to get EVERY badge you missed - othing else is at all even remotely fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is a huge, personal, and in my opinion invalid assumption. Put on your skis, and watch out for the jump at the bottom of that slippery slope - it's a doozy.
There are several things that I agreed on in your previous post, but this argument's nigh-crystal clear representation of the classic slippery slope fallacy comes close to invalidating your other arguments to my eyes.
[/ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.
It works like this, you see: once you set the precedent of doing something, it becomes that much harder to justify not doing so again. And each time you succumb to the demands that generated that sort of concession, it becomes even harder to justify finally saying "no more".
Occams Razor would seem to dictate that the simplest answer is to say "no" from day one, and make NO exceptions.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it says "New customers only". Thus, I am disqualified, sucks to be me, oh well.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, answer the scenario AS I PRESENTED IT. Don't change it to fit your argument. As I presented it, it's illegal. They couldn't do it. They would HAVE TO allow you to get it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Then put together a scenario that would EXIST in the real world - because what you described ... Simply. Does. Not. Happen. That. Way.
[ QUOTE ]
They could ONLY hold it against you if it required either a difference in your monthly rate plan or if it was LIMITED TIME promotion. Beyond that, they'd have to allow for it to be taken to their existing customer on that plan.
[/ QUOTE ]
Not how contract law works. Once you have a contract with them, they're free tooffer anyone ELSE a different contract, and you're just S.O.L.
[ QUOTE ]
Again, you're adding to my scenario to make it fit your argument. Read what I said above.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, I added to it to make it fit reality.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want... that is the simple truth of the matter.
[/ QUOTE ]
Argue however you want, but, the suggestions for "some contact should give a mission that has Contaminated in it" is in absolutely no way limited only to Pre-I2 characters.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uh huh... and quote ONE post of mine where I sign off on a mission ok'ing us to get Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
I spoke to the thread-as-a-whole.
[ QUOTE ]
*I* am asking for it to be awarded outright to all toons who were built PRE-I2.
[/ QUOTE ]
HELL NO. Any character that - for any reason - didn't do the work, certainly is not entitrled to gettign the REWARD. Something like "Golden Age" awarded to all pre-I2 heroes, sure. Isolator? Sorry, you missed that bus - even if "missed", in this case, means "walked out of the station before the busses were BUILT".
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Which is why the suggestion I made in this thread - some thirty seven pages ago - was to give the pre-I2 characters their own, exclusive badge .... instead of Isolator. Something only THEY could have .... "Golden Age Hero" was one of the names suggested for that.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with that is... people will STILL want Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
To which ppeople, I'd say "tough luck" - and point at the fact that they have a badge which only they can get. If they STILL want to whine about Isolator ... they're crybabies stuck in "gimme-gimme-gimme-gimme" mode, and screw 'em, every last one; I loathe and despise the ludicrous - and baseless - sense of entitlement I've been seeing from many of the "I want Isolator, dammit" crowd of late.
[ QUOTE ]
I'd gladly take a different badge in it's place. Especially one that gave me the credit of being a 'Golden Age Hero'. That'd be a badge of honor. However, I'd still want Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
See above.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tutorial is not a special event. It's an option available to ALL toons.
[/ QUOTE ]
And it's inherently and intrinsicly "... for NEW CUSTOMERS only ..."
[/ QUOTE ]
Says who?
[/ QUOTE ]
The game code itself - new characters are allowed to enter Outbreak; existing characters only end up there as a result of bugs.
[ QUOTE ]
Oh wait... I'm not a new customer. Been here since about two weeks after release and can get it on any new toon I roll.
[/ QUOTE ]
Right, on a NEW CHARACTER. As in, "new customer" as far as the character-record database is concerned.
[ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that in order for the argument to be valid, you would have to have an environment where those claims don't already occur. And in this environment, they very definitely have in the past. When the Winter Lords came back, there were posts of, "Let us have the other badges from Frosty!" I'd bet when Halloween rolls around again, you'll have a good number of posts on gettting those badges again as well. And cries of, "Where's our Celebrant for the two-year anniversary?"
[ QUOTE ]
It works like this, you see: once you set the precedent of doing something, it becomes that much harder to justify not doing so again. And each time you succumb to the demands that generated that sort of concession, it becomes even harder to justify finally saying "no more".
[/ QUOTE ]
And again, I say that invalidates the point of this forum. If "giving in" to our suggestions is such a dangerous situation that it will automatically make it that much harder to hold out against further similar suggestions, then they need to close this forum down immediately. You're assuming the developers have to justify saying, "No," and they don't. The claim you're making is that because the developers are going to add trenchcoats into the game makes them more susceptible to adding, say, neon green toupees into the game if forum goers wheedle about it enough. And that's where the slippery slope comes in.
To use a real-world example: If you ask me to bake you chocolate chip cookies, and I do so, it does not guarantee that I'll be more likely to give in to your request of, "Bake me a cake!". It doesn't even guarantee that I'll be more likely to do so. Now, what you are correct about is that if I don't bake you that cake, you might throw a fit and try to say, "But you baked me cookies!" In that situation, a halfway intelligent adult will say, "And your point is?" and send you packing. Which will lead to whining and moaning - but if precedent means anything at all, that's already going to happen in this case anyway. When the time rolls around for those time-specific events, people will already be on the boards puling about how they should bring them back so we can get the rewards and badges from them.
If it's something we need to agree to disagree on, then I suppose I'd be best to stop reading this thread, because frankly, the most common argument is a classically-invalid slippery slope, at the bottom of which are a false assumption and a fear that something will happen - when in fact it's already very likely to happen regardless of the outcome of this issue.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that in order for the argument to be valid, you would have to have an environment where those claims don't already occur. And in this environment, they very definitely have in the past. When the Winter Lords came back, there were posts of, "Let us have the other badges from Frosty!" I'd bet when Halloween rolls around again, you'll have a good number of posts on gettting those badges again as well. And cries of, "Where's our Celebrant for the two-year anniversary?"
[/ QUOTE ]
The point isn't that allowing ONE o-back will create desires or suggestions regarding the other badges, it's that it steadily gets harder and harder to say no, each timeyou say yes.
[ QUOTE ]
To use a real-world example: If you ask me to bake you chocolate chip cookies, and I do so, it does not guarantee that I'll be more likely to give in to your request of, "Bake me a cake!".
[/ QUOTE ]
No, but if you show up in a roomfull of people, with a big, heaping plate of cookies, and I ask you for one cookie ... you look like a bit of an [censored], if you say no to the next person. If you say "yes" five times, the sixth person is VERY likely to be offended if you finally say "no". And remember, it's just ONE cookie, apiece, from that plate. IDENTICAL cookies for all intents and purposes.
Pax, when you quit ranting and can give me a LEGIT reason why my pre-i2 toons are being discrimnated against I'll start paying attention to your posts.
Beyond that all I see is unjustified fear. I don't get it. But anyway... when you can give me a legit reason why my toons aren't allowed to get it... then I'll listen.
Beyond that... your posts are coming off more and more like you just want to ruin it for others.
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you so scared of them awarding this to toons who weren't given the CHANCE to earn it?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not "scared" as you put it. Chew on this:
You keep saying its "unfair" that you didn't get the chance to earn it. However, your not asking for a chance to earn it... YOU are asking for it to be *given* to you and anyone who had created a character before I2. So how is THAT fair to anyone who created their character, and went through Isolator and actually put in the time and work required to take down 100 contaminated?
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?
[/ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't expect the deal because IT DIDN'T EXIST AT THE TIME. If you buy a game now for 50 dollars, and a month later it goes on sale for 20 dollars, you don't get to go back and demand they refund you 30 dollars. If I have cable installed, and two months later they start up a promotion where if you subscribe you get a years free of Skinemax, you don't get to go and demand they give you the free service.
This is along the same lines.
[ QUOTE ]
Your argument doesn't hold water and make sense anymore than my scenario would. You can't tell us we should only get it for having beat 100 outbreak mobs when at the time there was NO POINT in it.
You wouldn't ask for that bonus on your plan because at the time it didn't exist and there'd have been no point to ask for it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly. And because the plan didn't exist, I would not be entitled to it now. Just as people are not automatically entitled to Isolator, either.
[ QUOTE ]
The point we're trying to make is that had it been available at the time, we'd have it.
I don't have a hero-side toon post I2 that doesN'T have it. I think I can prove it's something I would have invested the time it.
However at the time there was no reason to sit around hunting 100 mobs in tutorial. So you can't hold that against us.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. I can. And I am.
Ok so I've read the first 16 pages of this thread (lot of reading I might add) and everyone has a stance. Real fast my main is lvl 37, and I have a lot of badges, but not Isolator. Reason being I didn't know about badges till one magically appeared when I hit lvl 10. Am I ticked about not knowing? A lil, but I'm not real worried about it. I do think there should be something that hints at badges when a new player to the game starts the tutorial. Not a flat out "hey kill x number of contaminated get a badge" but a subtle hint would be nice.
For the people who say it would take time and resources away from the devs to improve the game, that is a false. Any one who has done any type of programming will tell you that it easier to copy and paste the code, then typing it all over. So if people suggest using the already available stuff, then the coding shouldn't take no more then a few hours, at the most maybe a day. That task could be given to one person and let the rest continue working on new content, powers, ATs and the sort.
Plus if the people pre-I2 think they should get a badge or get a chance to get Isolator, then let'em. On the whole new badge thing, let the devs give the players some input by creating a "design new badge" thread that is a way to save time for devs to work on new stuff, plus that thread would probably be very popular among players and it's another way to get the devs and players on the same page. Also, with terms of a new mission that would allow lvl 50 characters to go through a time portal is a valid story that the devs can use. Again another thread could be "design new mission", another way for players to have some input, this also would allow devs to spend time on other things.
The arguement about how if you let people go back and get one badge then others will complain about going back and getting Celebrant or the halloween badges. To those who want those badges, I say "get over it", those are the badges that a player who wasn't around for them not be allowed to get. I don't have any of those, but do I get mad? No, it was my loss I wasn't playing back then, I just see those badges and know that who ever has it is someone who's been around a while. Yet Isolator is one that is always around, you just have to know about badges before hand to get it.
I think the devs should allow people to go back and get it, if they choose to. If you feel it cheapens the badge, then don't get it, it's that simple, but for some it wouldnt' cheapen it. If the devs do anything, the little hint about badges would be nice, and putting that in coding wouldn't take no more then what five mintues to type a sentence hinting at badges?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Slippery slope" is not an inherently false premise. The fact is, the moment you give people a "way-back machine" for ONE badge, someone else willpop up and [censored], whine, moan, and complain about ANOTHER badge, until it TOO gets it's own "way-back machine" opportunity.
[/ QUOTE ]
Except that in order for the argument to be valid, you would have to have an environment where those claims don't already occur. And in this environment, they very definitely have in the past. When the Winter Lords came back, there were posts of, "Let us have the other badges from Frosty!" I'd bet when Halloween rolls around again, you'll have a good number of posts on gettting those badges again as well. And cries of, "Where's our Celebrant for the two-year anniversary?"
[/ QUOTE ]
The point isn't that allowing ONE o-back will create desires or suggestions regarding the other badges, it's that it steadily gets harder and harder to say no, each timeyou say yes.
[/ QUOTE ]
*boggles*
That statement makes as much sense as saying "I say no every time my child wants to see a movie, no matter what the movie, because if I say yes just once it's harder for me to say no the next time."
Or a boss that says "I say no everytime an employee asks for a raise, if I give one a raise, then it makes it harder to say no to the next one."
Most adults make descisions on a case by case basis. Saying yes in one instance doesnt make it any harder to say no in another in the real world.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To use a real-world example: If you ask me to bake you chocolate chip cookies, and I do so, it does not guarantee that I'll be more likely to give in to your request of, "Bake me a cake!".
[/ QUOTE ]
No, but if you show up in a roomfull of people, with a big, heaping plate of cookies, and I ask you for one cookie ... you look like a bit of an [censored], if you say no to the next person. If you say "yes" five times, the sixth person is VERY likely to be offended if you finally say "no". And remember, it's just ONE cookie, apiece, from that plate. IDENTICAL cookies for all intents and purposes.
[/ QUOTE ]
The real example is more along the lines of setting out your tray of cookies after a few guests arrive. The first guests go off to dance. *You* decide the cookies are only for guests as they walk in the door. In order to get that cookie people entering have to stand on their heads and count to 100...
No..
I was going to continue this analogy but no. i wont feed into analogy. It is a waste of effort. If you cant see it you cant see it. I do hope that at some point you learn to compromise. It will prove to be a frustrating life, as most people will refuse to kowtow to your wishes.
Briefly, asking for something to be given (in this case a badge for all pre issue 2 characters) is an entitlement. That you think it should be unearned is a sense of entitlement. It is in fact you asking for a 'gimme'.
We are not asking for a 'gimme' but a way to earn something.
That you continue with insults .. well it ends my interaction with you. I refuse to play a childish game of 'insults win arguements'. Have a good day.
Totally and completely OT: Post 300 
~Liberty~
The LEGION (CoH) - The Fallen LEGION (CoV)
Forget your fears and want no more
50's - Renkoro, Remorseless
~Virtue~
Angry Angels / Jaded Angels
Global - @Puretone
i like the idea
Ex-Mayor of Champion
I Love all my Championites. I hope to see everyone once again.
SHOWTIME - You guys are like my family!
[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!
[/ QUOTE ]
um, all of the holloween and Winter badges from the first year were defeat badges. So they are the EXACT same type of badge as Isolator.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That one can not! When Issue 2 and the entire badge system was introduced the devs really should have awarded Isolator to ALL characters created between Issue 1 and 2, because as the badge says, we all "began our career on a high note." 
[/ QUOTE ]
That I'd sign off on. Not going back and getting it, but being awarded it retroactively. God knows even my non-badge toons get it simply because if I ever change my mind I couldn't go back to get it.
That being said you know damned well I'd have gotten it on my pre-badge era toons for that same reason ESPECIALLY since most of those ARE badge hunters.
It should be retroactively awarded to toons who were built BEFORE badges were released. I can't imagine pulling THAT data would be hard. Not like data-mining specific mob kills etc. All they'd need is to locate the toons made before I2.
[/ QUOTE ]
And so you know how their data archives work?
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
Pax, when you quit ranting and can give me a LEGIT reason why my pre-i2 toons are being discrimnated against I'll start paying attention to your posts.
[/ QUOTE ]
They are not being discriminated against. They are being treated the same as every other Pre-I2 avatar.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
Most adults make descisions on a case by case basis. Saying yes in one instance doesnt make it any harder to say no in another in the real world.
[/ QUOTE ]
And people on the internet always act in a mature, adult fashion, even if they are of an age to be considered an adult?
Why do the devs no longer give us even approximate timelines of things not yet set in stone for release? Becuase they did once, and got tired of people whining when something happend to delay release.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!
[/ QUOTE ]
um, all of the holloween and Winter badges from the first year were defeat badges. So they are the EXACT same type of badge as Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok lets get technical since you seem to be doing so.
Yes, they are all kill (x) badges. So in a way it is in the same .
But it is not the same because Isolator is not a Event badge as the others are such as the Winter, Halloween and the celebrant badge.
These badges were for a limited time. Isolator is still currently in the game. The special event badges are not. So in fact they are not exactly the same. Only way they are similar is because of the kill (x) attached to them.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
[ QUOTE ]
Say your cell company starts a new promotion with your plan. But to get it you need to ask for it. It'll give you 100 extra minutes of usage a month.
Now you've had your plan for 6 months. So they tell you you can't get it because you didn't ask for the bonus when you got the plan (when it didn't exist.) How idiotic would that be? You wouldn't get upset and feel cheated?
Your argument doesn't hold water and make sense anymore than my scenario would. You can't tell us we should only get it for having beat 100 outbreak mobs when at the time there was NO POINT in it.
You wouldn't ask for that bonus on your plan because at the time it didn't exist and there'd have been no point to ask for it.
The point we're trying to make is that had it been available at the time, we'd have it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Here is the thing, Ball. If you sign a contract for a plan, and later they offer that same plan with bonus time if you do ten jumping jacks in the store, the contract WILL be different. Because they don't just give free minutes - they will have you sign saying you know what the terms of those minutes are. And even if they were willing to do it if you did ten jumping jacks in the store when you signed the contract, why would you of done 1, let alone ten, jumping jacks inside the cell store.
The ONLY time I have ever heard of a cellphone company letting people pick up a deal that didn't exist when they signed on before their contracted time is up is with Cingular - and that is for the AT&T customers that were not informed that their provider might be sold to someone else, thus trapping them with a proprietary phone that cannot be used with the "new" providers networks.
That is what happend to me and my family - and we got hit by it when needing new phones, because for a while Cingular, while not charging the early termination fee on AT&T accounts switching to Cingular, were not going to give the new customer/contract deal. Eventually they had enough outrage (they c/wouldn't even sell phones that were enabled to work on the AT&T plans) because that ment totally new contracts with high-priced phones, or going on ebay or some such to find a phone.
But Cryptic isn't a cell phone company with proprietary networks/phones, and it certainly hasn't been bought out by anyone.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!
[/ QUOTE ]
um, all of the holloween and Winter badges from the first year were defeat badges. So they are the EXACT same type of badge as Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok lets get technical since you seem to be doing so.
Yes, they are all kill (x) badges. So in a way it is in the same .
But it is not the same because Isolator is not a Event badge as the others are such as the Winter, Halloween and the celebrant badge.
These badges were for a limited time. Isolator is still currently in the game. The special event badges are not. So in fact they are not exactly the same. Only way they are similar is because of the kill (x) attached to them.
[/ QUOTE ]
But outbreak is a limited time thing - just like the events. Once your past outbreak, your are past it. Even if other people can still enter it, they cannot re-enter it.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!
[/ QUOTE ]
um, all of the holloween and Winter badges from the first year were defeat badges. So they are the EXACT same type of badge as Isolator.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok lets get technical since you seem to be doing so.
Yes, they are all kill (x) badges. So in a way it is in the same .
But it is not the same because Isolator is not a Event badge as the others are such as the Winter, Halloween and the celebrant badge.
These badges were for a limited time. Isolator is still currently in the game. The special event badges are not. So in fact they are not exactly the same. Only way they are similar is because of the kill (x) attached to them.
[/ QUOTE ]
But outbreak is a limited time thing - just like the events. Once your past outbreak, your are past it. Even if other people can still enter it, they cannot re-enter it.
[/ QUOTE ]
It is still not a special event, I don't care how you look at it.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
[ QUOTE ]
Pax, when you quit ranting and can give me a LEGIT reason why my pre-i2 toons are being discrimnated against I'll start paying attention to your posts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Legit Reason? Your reason is right here! *Rips off my shirt* Look at this body! Flawlessly scupltured in service of our forums! Feel how the pulse with loyalty, how solid and serious they are! Feel how! If you don't believe me, then they'll make you believe! Feel!
[ QUOTE ]
The Isolator badge is a "defeat #" badge! It is NOT a special event badge and in no way compares to Celebrant, or the Winter, Halloween, or Valentine's Day Event badges, because it's a totally different type of badge!
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no it's not that different. The Halloween badges were, by and large, "defeat X of Y" badges, too:
[*] Hunter ... defeat 20 Halloween Vampires[*] Buster ... defeat 20 Halloween Ghosts[*] Shifter ... defeat 20 Halloween Werewolves[*] Dead Head ... defeat 20 Halloween Zombies[*] Malleus ... defeat 20 Halloween Witches
Oh, and there's also:
[*] Cold Warrior ... defeat 100 Winter Lord minions/LTs/bosses
Funny. I thought you just said Isolator being a "Defeat X" badge made it sompletely different from the Event badges ...? Guess you were wrong, hmm?
[ QUOTE ]
Those were limited-time event badges! Isolator is available right now! This very minute! Except no one has access to the zone unless they are a brand new character!
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that Exception there makes it a bit special, wouldn't you say?
[ QUOTE ]
That one can not! When Issue 2 and the entire badge system was introduced the devs really should have awarded Isolator to ALL characters created between Issue 1 and 2, because as the badge says, we all "began our career on a high note."
[/ QUOTE ]
Nah. "Old Timer", yes - you will note I support the idea of an exclusive bade for characters that were created before I2 came out. But I don't support an "oops, Imissed one" do-over chance for ANY badge, unless it exists for ALL badges - regardless of source or type!!
And I'd rather they didn't have ANY do-over options for badges. Ever. Even if it WOULD jack my own badge counts up tremendously ...