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Lets look further at Archmage Tarixus. He then offers a mission that gives out an Achievement badge: Soul Taker. If that badge were to be used in an Accolade later on (with I7 as you've said), you've pretty much locked many people out of this accolade because people who don't come here likely don't know about history badges, don't know how to get one to unlock Tarixus, and therefore won't have a shot at the badge he offers, and therefore never get the Accolade.
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Although I do see your point, I think the folks that come to these pages and read should have that edge/advantage. If they aren't reading the forums, then they probably aren't terribly concerned about badges or accolades. And if they are, they will ask their friends. One is bound to tell them about the forums and the info within.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
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So then, what about villians that miss jailbird?
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There wasn't ever a villian created that never had a chance to get Jailbird. However, there were heroes who never had a chance to get *their* tutorial badge, since they had left the tutorial months before badges ever existed.
Tygara - 50 Claws/Regen/Power Scrapper, Virtue- Member of Kitties on the Prowl.
Shadeburn - Dark/Rad Defender, Virtue- Member of Catch 'Em Crew
Nature Boy' - Elec/Ice Blaster, Virtue - Member of Young Phalanx
[ QUOTE ]
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So then, what about villians that miss jailbird?
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There wasn't ever a villian created that never had a chance to get Jailbird. However, there were heroes who never had a chance to get *their* tutorial badge, since they had left the tutorial months before badges ever existed.
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This may actually bring up a valid point regarding Isolator. Was the badge datamined when it was created? If so, then my explanation earlier sitll holds that the true explorers would still have gotten the badge. If not, then a truly valid point exists for giving such characters the ability for a period of time to go back and get that badge.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
This may actually bring up a valid point regarding Isolator. Was the badge datamined when it was created? If so, then my explanation earlier sitll holds that the true explorers would still have gotten the badge. If not, then a truly valid point exists for giving such characters the ability for a period of time to go back and get that badge.
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err... it's a kill badge, not exploration..
<.< and badges didn't exist, so they're no reason anyone would have killed the 100 enemies in the toutorial needed for the badge.. escecially since they don't give out any xp or infl
>.> what should be done, is some form of special event where one runs into contaminated, giving those who missed out a chance.
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
An exploring personality is what would have discovered the badge sans people mining .pigg files. Thus, that's what I was referring to, not an Explore badge.
As for why people do it, there's also no reason to clear all the black off my maps, but I know quite a few people who do that. No XP or inf doesn't mean no one does it.
- Ping (@iltat, @Pinghole)
Don't take it personally if you think I was mean to you. I'm an ******* to everyone.
It's a penguin thing. Pingu FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
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So then, what about villians that miss jailbird?
[/ QUOTE ]
There wasn't ever a villian created that never had a chance to get Jailbird. However, there were heroes who never had a chance to get *their* tutorial badge, since they had left the tutorial months before badges ever existed.
[/ QUOTE ]
This may actually bring up a valid point regarding Isolator. Was the badge datamined when it was created? If so, then my explanation earlier sitll holds that the true explorers would still have gotten the badge. If not, then a truly valid point exists for giving such characters the ability for a period of time to go back and get that badge.
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I don't believe it was datamined...
and either way, there was no indication before issue 2 that there would be any reward for mucking about in the tutorial- You're suggesting that we shouldn't be able to get the badge because we didn't have precognitive psychic powers.
Tygara - 50 Claws/Regen/Power Scrapper, Virtue- Member of Kitties on the Prowl.
Shadeburn - Dark/Rad Defender, Virtue- Member of Catch 'Em Crew
Nature Boy' - Elec/Ice Blaster, Virtue - Member of Young Phalanx
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This may actually bring up a valid point regarding Isolator. Was the badge datamined when it was created? If so, then my explanation earlier sitll holds that the true explorers would still have gotten the badge. If not, then a truly valid point exists for giving such characters the ability for a period of time to go back and get that badge.
[/ QUOTE ]
err... it's a kill badge, not exploration..
<.< and badges didn't exist, so they're no reason anyone would have killed the 100 enemies in the toutorial needed for the badge.. escecially since they don't give out any xp or infl
>.> what should be done, is some form of special event where one runs into contaminated, giving those who missed out a chance.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well since I would assume most of the population who would still need this badge would be 40+ in the community. I was thinking maybe make it harder for the 40+ heroes to earn this badge.
A possible Monster Class Contaminated I think would be awesome. We would need a team to defeat them, thus creating more teaming chances for the community. And make these contaminated a rare spawn sort of like the Kraken or Adamastor. That way its not a easy badge to earn. Possibly a kill 5 or 10 sort of like Sally was originally.
That way it will give the future veterans a chance to create a new hero and not have to worry about Outbreak as we know what is expected of the game. Then giving us the chance to still earn the badge even after we skip outbreak.
Because honestly in outbreak there is no risk. Only reward. You gain no xp nor do you gain debt. With this idea, if you choose to use it, will offer 4 things.
1. Risk.
2. Reward.
3. Badge.
4. And new content for the community.
Just a idea for you to chew on 
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
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Poz could possibly add some limited sorting to the Badge window, but it would be SO limited, it would be almost useless to you (we can't sort by "when you got it" for example, since we dont track that).
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Actually, I *think* you sort of do:
If you get an accolade and proceed to level onward when you RSK you can use is as long as you don't go below the level you gained it. I suppose it could be true that you didn't track it for all badges, just accolades.
Or - I could be full of it. (Oh, wait... those conditions are not exclusive...)
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2. And a "No" to backtracking for Isolator/Jailbird. Yes, I know some people are completists, but I'm not complaining that some (most) of my toons don't have Toy Collector. Or several don't have Celebrant (for 1 year.) The ones that are unavailable because they showed up somewhere you can't get to now aren't used for anything.
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Just because YOU don't think we should be able to go back and get those badges doesn't mean we shouldn't. That's very conceited of you to say.
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It's called an opinion. If having one makes me conceited, then I'm the most conceited damn person on the face of the planet.
Oh, wait, you have an opinion too? Guess that makes you conceited as well.
The badge was created AFTER some players outleveled the zone. You (a general "you" there) don't have it. It makes NO difference to gameplay. So why should the developers invest time and resources to LET you get back there - something people will do for what, a week? then never do again - when they could be using that time on bug fixes, new art, maybe developing an actual mission a bit more?
But no. They should sink time and money in, possibly breaking something or having some unforseen bug slip in affecting ANOTHER part of the game so that *how* many people can actually have a few more pixels on their "badges" screen.
Hmm. Why would I be against that..... well, besides the "Level 50 slaughterfest" that came out when Croatoa did, interfering with the people actually IN level for the zone trying to do, oh, hunt missions.... Yep. Really want a repeat of that. Or the wonderful behaviour we saw from many (not all, no) high levels in lowbie zones over the holidays - you know, "I can go to almost any zone and do this with travel powers/high damage/no risk, shame you can't, ha ha have a +4 spawn!"
Yes, I have such faith in human nature. Just not in it being *good.* :P
Edit:
As far as auto-awarding one:
Why should they be handed something someone else's toon, at lvl 1, 2 at best (an untrained 2) had to work at? Who says all the people who created characters at that time would have wanted it anyway? (Ok, minority there who would complain - but you KNOW they exist.... "This badge doesn't fit my concept, I don't want it on my list!")
I'd even go for "Characters created between day 1 and the release if the badges get X badge instead," but I don't see that stopping the "I still don't have Isolator though!" complaints. Seriously... I don't.
If it affected gameplay (part of an accolade) in ANY way shape or form, I'd agree there should be some alternate way of getting it. But since it doesn't, it's as useless as me complaining I can't buy a new '63 corvette from the dealer in town because I was made after they were out of production.
<.< like I said, a special event/holiday mission.. something like that, or perhapse, add that portal mission that all the rumors where about when i2 came out that would let ppl created before i2 get the badge, it doesn't have to be something that causes great glitchs, or has to be datmined.
o,o heck, if you where being devious about it.. you could have a new Giant Monster that converted npcs or such into them. there are lots of gun way to do this and make a couple hundred subscribbers very happy
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is the badge list so screwed up?
Well, it's not. At least to me.
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The ease-of-life of the devs needs to come secondary to customer service. Devs should keep up with the badges some other way while making them display to us in a orderly fashion.
That this even needs to be said kinda surprises me.
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I would find even a minor alphabetical sort available to the players to be a very important feature and certainly hope you consider it.
If the badges are in some sort of order that makes sense to them, perhaps they could put in some markers that would make it make sense to US??
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Not only do they spawn alot less than they used to but now that only a few people gain the badge for defeating these monsters, people are very close lipped about when they DO appear. Talk about Counter-Productive and Anti-Teaming!!!
It used to be a community effort to defeat a Monster.... now with the new rules and increased (post-ED) difficulty, a giant monster's arrival is met with secrecy, apathy or outright hostility from those you ask to help
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Where are you getting this from? It sounds like some paranoid rambling. ED could not possibly be responsible for people trying to keep other people from finding out that, say, Kraken had spawned.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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Will there ever be a way for toons that have outleveled the PVP zone contacts to be able to run the missions? If they are rewarding badges, then you are arbitrarily limiting those of us that have already outleveled them. I believe Statesman said that ONLY the tutorial badges would be unattainable once you've missed them. As it stands, there is no way to get the patrol badges that I can find. I've gotten the others via teams, but only the mission holder gets the patrol mission badges.
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Exemplar/Malefactor to someone doing the mission and you will get the badge when they do.
We do not want to make the missions in the PvP zones go all the way to 50, because then a character could literally spend all his time in that zone, never needing to leave except to visit stores, and that is gameplay we dont want to encourage.
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So right now I can be on a team with someone and run the missions as usual to get all the pvp badges EXCEPT the patrol ones, whereby I have to EX/MF SPECIFICALLY to the mission holder? And how were we supposed to know this without ever visiting the boards.
Also, just an aside; people already DO spend all of their time with their level 50s in the PVP zones. What else are they supposed to do? At least by allowing them to run the missions they can actually help to participate in the zones as they were intended by helping with the buff/debuffs of the zone.
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Either way, earlier usage is a reward for earlier dedication to being an Explorer.
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Not if you were level 50 when Issue 2 hit.
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My main cant use most of his Accolades prior to Level 50, but this is a rather trivial matter as they dont make THAT much of a difference in most cases.
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Which is why I don't think the request is unbalancing, it would just be nice for people who didn't have a chance to be able to use this stuff when RSKed. It's not like there is very much level 50 content that allows them to use it.
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The problem is they would have to change some code related to powers, levels, and exemplar. If you added the CoH DVD extras to an existing account (like I did) any characters that existed get VIP "awarded" when you next log in. VIP gives you Prestiage slide, and even though it is an inherent, if my defender exemps below level 20 or so, he loese the Slide because he got it at about 20
I get the feeling they would really have to screw with some code to change this.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
<.< actually.. I think Positron completely missunder stood this question.. the messed up badges in CoV are the mission ones...
O.O why ARE THEY ALL DOUBLED UP??!? was it that much work to make ones with extra pips? it's not that hard to do artistically, they're all identical except for the number of pips...
>.< and you get the 2 pip ones lvls 5-10, but the 1 pip ones 10-15?!? it makes no sense!!
I am Sleepy! Hear me Yawn!!
Veni, Vidi, Dormivi!
-Alpha Kitty of the Guardian chapter of the Legion of Catgirls
Never forget--Sleepy could conquer the world, if she could just stay awake long enough. =) -Llanwe
If you guys really want Positron to answer important badge questions perhaps you might think of taking certain elements of these conversations into other threads. I really don't envy him the task of wading through a lot of these discussions... yes, they're important ones to have but perhaps the same points can be made through actual badge questions to Positron rather than arguing out your own opinions on other people's questions to him.
[ QUOTE ]
<.< like I said, a special event/holiday mission.. something like that, or perhapse, add that portal mission that all the rumors where about when i2 came out that would let ppl created before i2 get the badge, it doesn't have to be something that causes great glitchs, or has to be datmined.
o,o heck, if you where being devious about it.. you could have a new Giant Monster that converted npcs or such into them. there are lots of gun way to do this and make a couple hundred subscribbers very happy
[/ QUOTE ]
But...
Do you *want* them sinking the amount of time and money into *that,* or into a new monster/mission/area?
How many people really "badge hunt" that obsessively? (And I'm not using "obsessively" derisively, by any means, so don't take it that way. It's fun, admittedly - though when I was doing it, it was just that, fun with friends.) Of those, how many are on toons that were started *before* I2?
You mentioned "a couple hundred subscribers." The devs recycled monsters from the year before for this past holiday event - since according to Positron (as I recall, it was him, at least) as much work had to go into "special events" as had to go into a regular zone event. The same would pretty much hold true for this. And it would be played out in a week.... and then what?
You'd have a few hundred happy subscribers that finally got the badge they missed, what, a year and a half to two years ago - and many, many times that either (a) not caring or (b) feeling cheated, or flat out angry that they "wasted" the resources on this - or (c) angry that while they had to fight with Brawl and one other power, the level 50s got to run in and clean house, so "what was the point?" It would cease to mean anything.
And at that point, they might as well put a "Badge Pack" in the NCSoft store. Pay $15, and get all the "special" badges from the old Halloween event, the Celebrant badges, the old Winter Lord event, etc. added to the account.
... which ends up making them mean even less.
Yes, I know, this is a silly thing to get my Irish up over, since they're nothing but pixels in a game - but I *like* the badges I have, and that some of my toons don't have them. They tell a story of their own about the characters. Some of mine will have the 2nd year "celebrant" most likely. Some will have both the first and second. Some will have neither one. Some have some I went out of the way for because they fit the character - and I end up taking risks with the character to get them early.
It's late, I'm rambling, but... I have yet to hear an idea that wouldn't frankly cheapen it IMHO, or be seen as a waste of developer resources - for an incredibly small portion of the user base, and for something that affects gameplay in no way.
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Will there ever be a way for toons that have outleveled the PVP zone contacts to be able to run the missions? If they are rewarding badges, then you are arbitrarily limiting those of us that have already outleveled them. I believe Statesman said that ONLY the tutorial badges would be unattainable once you've missed them. As it stands, there is no way to get the patrol badges that I can find. I've gotten the others via teams, but only the mission holder gets the patrol mission badges.
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Exemplar/Malefactor to someone doing the mission and you will get the badge when they do.
We do not want to make the missions in the PvP zones go all the way to 50, because then a character could literally spend all his time in that zone, never needing to leave except to visit stores, and that is gameplay we dont want to encourage.
[/ QUOTE ]
So right now I can be on a team with someone and run the missions as usual to get all the pvp badges EXCEPT the patrol ones, whereby I have to EX/MF SPECIFICALLY to the mission holder? And how were we supposed to know this without ever visiting the boards.
Also, just an aside; people already DO spend all of their time with their level 50s in the PVP zones. What else are they supposed to do? At least by allowing them to run the missions they can actually help to participate in the zones as they were intended by helping with the buff/debuffs of the zone.
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I couldn't agree more!
I think we should be able to run these missions at any given time so we too can take part in the zones buffs and debuffs.
[B]Leading Badge Holder in the City of Community[/B]
Owner & Operator of...
[URL="http://www.vidiotmaps.com/"]Vidiotmaps.com[/URL] & [URL="http://www.badge-hunter.com/"]Badge-Hunter.com[/URL]
[URL="http://net-warrior.mybrute.com/"][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkorange]Challenge My Brute[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/URL]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is the badge list so screwed up?
Well, it's not. At least to me.
You see each "Issue" has their own badge list (Ish 2 and 3 are combined, but 4 thru 7 all have their own list). Each list comes after the other one in the badge display order. Thats why newer badges appear towards the bottom of their combined lists.
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Actually, from my observation of the Achievement badges, it seems that the Issue lists stack this way:
Issue 6 (CoV and PvP zone badges)
Issue 3 (Hollows, SS, various events)
Issue 2 (original badges)
Issue 5 (events, epics & Croatoa)
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Now why is City of Villains badges so so so screwed up? That's because CoV also repuposes at lot of Ish 2 through 5 stuff, and thus those badges are on earlier "lists".
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But why does the Issue 6 block has "Defeat X" badges, "PvP zone time", "PvP missions", "Gladiator battles" and "SG Raid" badges all mixed up together? Would it be possible to at least sort them by type within the block? First the PvP mission badges, then the ones for time spent in zones, then Gladiator matches, then SG Raids, then the "Defeat X" badges alphabetically.
Character index
1) Shadow Shard Badges
I know the place was probably designed before any actual work was done on the badges, but if there is one zone that needs the Striga/Croatoa treatment it's the otherwise sadly empty Shadow Shard. Some exploration badges at the very least, though its own Accomplishment string would be nice too and maybe even an Accolade for doing everything there is, as in Croatoa.
Any chance of the Shadow Shard getting more local badges?
2) Badge order
I agree with pretty much any of the players. It's just convoluted right now. I think most people would be happy to just get achievement badges sorted by type and then alphabetically within type categories. Type being the differentiation of 'Gain X' (Inf, Mez time, Debt etc.), 'Defeat X', PVP and Event badges. Maybe more, maybe less.
Any chance of at least something simple like this working out?
"If you're going through hell, keep going."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Just two things that I have not seen answered so far in the thread.
1) Any possibility of progress bars for the influence/infamy badges? Any hints on the amount needed for Popular and Leader?
2) Since damage dealt is tracked on the kiosks (punishers), there is still no way to implement damage done badges? I really could care less if they datamined since damage is one of the most common stats in the game and pretty much whatever you are doing, you are going to be working toward this badge.
One thing I hate is invisible badge counters. It can make it very hard to track your progress or work out if you are doing it right. If you have to work to get the badge, I'd like to see the counter for it along with some clue regarding how to get the badge.
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I wouldn't mind if all Holiday event badges (including the accolades) were put under a new "Event" tab.
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I like that idea!!!
Creepy - Claws/WP Clown - 50 - August 10, 2008
Juniper's Daughter - Fire/Regen Scrapper - 50 - April 12, 2009
Fae Leigh - Grav/Kin Troller - 50 - May 30, 2010
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Although I do see your point, I think the folks that come to these pages and read should have that edge/advantage.
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What about the month or two after launch when no one knew about those hidden missions? What about people who come here regularly but outleveled these things during the month or two when all the badges were [censored]? You're saying that people who don't suffer from Alt-itis (which would have kept them from leveling up beyond that mission set presumably) or people who were faithful/excited enough to get the game at launch should be punished.
[ QUOTE ]
This may actually bring up a valid point regarding Isolator. Was the badge datamined when it was created?
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Nope because we had no idea badges would even exist so few if any ever fought 100 isolators especially after they saw they weren't getting XP. "True explorers" wouldn't have been wasting time in Outbreak for no reason when the explorer in them would want to get out asap and explore the actual game.
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An exploring personality is what would have discovered the badge sans people mining .pigg files. Thus, that's what I was referring to, not an Explore badge.
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Ok so at what point would you have stopped killing monkeys when they didn't give you a abdge? 50? 100? 500? At one point it took 10,000 of them to give you the badge. NO ONE would have sat and killed thousands of them for a badge that they didn't even know existed just for the possibility that it would.
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And make these contaminated a rare spawn sort of like the Kraken or Adamastor.
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You don't want the badge?? As it is the rare spawns are too rare. Don't add another! :-p
I do notice "Infected" in mercy island...maybe when/if heroes cross over they could goto mercy and kill 100 of em an get the badge??
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It makes NO difference to gameplay. So why should the developers invest time and resources to LET you get back there - something people will do for what, a week? then never do again - when they could be using that time on bug fixes, new art, maybe developing an actual mission a bit more?
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Yeah but any system they create that would let us flashback to outbreak could be used for EVERY mission. Level 50s could flashback to level 10 and get mission badges an such that are in accolades an DO affect gameplay.
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*how* many people can actually have a few more pixels on their "badges" screen.
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Just a few thousands....I mean there were 180,000 subscribers before badges were added...
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Why would I be against that..... well, besides the "Level 50 slaughterfest" that came out when Croatoa did, interfering with the people actually IN level for the zone trying to do, oh, hunt missions
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That was poor planning on their part. Create a new zone and badges within but don't increase the spawn rate for the first couple weeks? yeah bad planning.
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Why should they be handed something someone else's toon, at lvl 1, 2 at best (an untrained 2) had to work at? Who says all the people who created characters at that time would have wanted it anyway? (Ok, minority there who would complain - but you KNOW they exist.... "This badge doesn't fit my concept, I don't want it on my list!")
[/ QUOTE ]
Fine, have it be a one mission thing where you have to goto the contact if you don't have isolator and stop a shipment of Plague Canisters from being brought into paragon city. This way you can choose to do it and the only work is adding one contact since the warehouse and infected are already in the game.
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I'd even go for "Characters created between day 1 and the release if the badges get X badge instead," but I don't see that stopping the "I still don't have Isolator though!" complaints. Seriously... I don't.
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Well the only people who want isolator and don't have it are ones created before badges or were too high to justify rerolling for one badge. Anyone created within 2 weeks of badges going in game that doesn't have to badge could get it and beyond that they'd be told to shut up.
[ QUOTE ]
Why is the badge list so screwed up?
Well, it's not. At least to me.
[/ QUOTE ]
The ease-of-life of the devs needs to come secondary to customer service. Devs should keep up with the badges some other way while making them display to us in a orderly fashion.
That this even needs to be said kinda surprises me.
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains