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Now I agree that defiance is crap and only slightly useful if you try to exploit it, however, States wants to here about the bug in the OP. We should stick to info on that rather than venting about defiance else we may be waiting many more months before another red name shows up here again.
Edit: Wow. Quite a few posts between mine and the last one I saw. My point is just letting him know that we think it's crap isn't going to do us any good since we've been saying it since pre-I5. He wants data.
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Data has been given since it was on test. Nothing done.
The point remains that Statesman pops in every blue moon and talks a good game about possibly giving the problems this AT has some consideration.
Last time, our secondaries were supposed to be getting looked into and what did we get? A minor HP buff. /Fire still sucks, AR/Dev still sucks. Yet they don't miss an opportunity for nerfage.
I used to be full of hope like you, now I'm just a bitter old Blaster with a busted gun and outdated gadgets.
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Speaking of this, have you seen how cool the guns in the MM sets look, and AR blasters still get that big ole clunky thing that looks like the gun surge was selling in Beverly Hills Cop 3 with the microwave in it.
Any way, dont ever, and i mean EVER, count on defiance. Its been crappy since day 1. It was a obvious attempt to cover up issues of blasters damage scaling in the late game. An issue we were promised to have looked at, with the secondary powers being adjusted being another, that has completely and utterly been ignored. Meanwhile they have had plenty of time to examine the detoggling in PVP and plan on "adjusting" that in issue 7.
Odd its so unlike this dev team to worry about nerfing powers rather then getting right on fixing broken ones. This is just way outta character for them
And if you couldnt smell that....Its sarcasm.
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Criticals and Scourge are probably no better than Defiance at adding meaningful damage over the course of an evening of play. Criticals and Scourge are cooler looking and make the team go oooh-aaaah. Why is that? Because when they happen everyone sees the word Scourge or Critical (Domination too) and more numbers. When blasters get Defiance, the target should have the word Defiance fly above his head and the extra damage done should be a seperate number. As goofy as this sounds, I believe this would make Defiance more fun. If an inherent is not overly useful, at least it should be fun.
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I like this idea.
I also agree that the possibility that lag is a factor in Defiance damage or the Defiance bar should be investigated. Those people who can easily manipulate Defiance might have faster systems or something than the people whose testing shows it does not work.
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Scourge is actually very effective at adding damage. Primarily because you can plan for it. You know when its going to occur(almost all the time when the mob is at >15% health), so you can plan your attack chain so that your minor damage powers get the Scourge, effectively doubling the damage of those powers.
Heroes
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Verified
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Villains
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Saer Maen
Jen Corbae
Illuminance
Venator Arawn
Taiga Dryad
Tarranos
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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well guys sry thats a death stamp on this subject 
sry, defiance works how they want, and nothing will make them changed it or fix it.
Post your data if you want but I personaly in a year of playing CoH have never seen it made a differance on anything they have done so far, unless it was a way that something could be "exploited" they didnt think of.
Broomhilda BS/Regen/BM Scrapper, Fiddle Faddle Shield/ElecM/BM Tank,
And many others..
Dev's With all the Great new content, Please!! dont forget to fix the bugs with the old content. There is a storm a brewing because they are not getting fixed. If its a problem that no one is reporting them? Well Maybe you need to look at your tech support then..
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ZOMG! Statesman actually posted in the Blaster forum! He did it! I guess they are reading our posts! *faints*
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Posts like this make me wish I had the resources to develop Keyboard TASERS. I'd sell it to the devs so they could just zorch the hell out of you as a reward.
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Why you're so violently and personally flaming an ironic and good-natured "funny" post is beyond me. Why you're assuming that I'm a dev hater and interpreting what I said in the meanest way possible seems precipitous and uninformed to me.
If you were to read my posts regarding what I thought of the devs and the Blaster situation historically throughout the forums, you would find that I'm one of the few people who consistently say that the devs do listen, and are on the ball, and will fix our problems, but that they're busy and it takes them time.
Even when other people complain heavily about our problems (and I honestly think we do have them) you'll find that I'm always ready to step in and say "yes I know ____ sucks, but trust me, the devs are working on this, they're good people who want to make a great game, and they're really quite observant most of the time"
Honestly, I don't get people who wish hateful physical harm on others for so little reason over an easily misinterpretable statement without even getting to know a person...
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
[/ QUOTE ]Thats better than the old "actually, its working fine, you guys are idiots."
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You know how Fury builds up when the Brute gets attacked or attacked? And how domination builds up based only on how often the Dominator attacks?
What if defiance built up based on how often the Blaster was attacked only? That'd sure be better than we have now. They could nerf the max damage on defiance, but make it more useable.
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Great idea. Right now, it feels like it's running about 40 seconds behind my characters status, and is thus rendered utterly useless. Its no good in PvE, no good in PvP... it's just redundant. Until I caught this thread via Dev Digest, I had forgotten it existed at all.
I'm not one to rag on about X or Y being "broken" or, in fact, anything, I enjoy rolling with the punches but Defiance isn't so much a punch, more like a sledgehammer to the nuts 
When Defiance was first on Test, it was nigh on to impossible to get any benefit from it. You only saw a noticeable boost when your health was less than 25%-ish.
Defiance was modified to start giving a noticed benefit once health dropped below 50%.
Now, my two Blasters are among my alts so I cannot give an exact date/patch, but it sure seems like Defiance has been rolled back to the original Test version. I have not seen the Defiance bar move past 5%, even when in the blinking red.
btw- If it matters, my toons are on Justice.
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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I think the problem is that it's working as designed - and that's where the bug is.
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
[/ QUOTE ]Thats better than the old "actually, its working fine, you guys are idiots."
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Strangely, the search feature doesn't turn up any red-name posts that use the term 'idiots'. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
[/ QUOTE ]Thats better than the old "actually, its working fine, you guys are idiots."
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Strangely, the search feature doesn't turn up any red-name posts that use the term 'idiots'. Maybe you're thinking of some other game?
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((shakes head...sighs))
Stand UP.
FIGHT BACK!
well I was in the late 40's when Defiance was applied, and being Fire/Devices didn't allow for a long enough life span to successfully utilize Defiance, so I was an avid opponent to it's usefulness.
but since I started over with an Energy/Electric I found at the low levels it can come in handy. Getting into the red by the end of most street fights, I would immediately seek out a small group nearby(three or less)and start pulling I found I could one shot even con targets with Power blast, as opposed to Power Blast+Power Bolt+Power Blast/Charged Brawl combo.
If I could suggest an improvement have the Defiance bar start sooner and increase the accuracy boost( I found myself still missing as very angry Skulls ran towards me with ill intentions)
Mr Sweden. 50th Ice/Storm Controller
Mr USA. 50th Fire/Dev Blaster
Mr Iceland 50th Ice/Fire Tanker
Ms Sweden 50th Emp/Psy Defender
Doctor Velocity 50th Rad/Kin Corrupter
Visit Global Heroics
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2. Criticals and Scourge are probably no better than Defiance at adding meaningful damage over the course of an evening of play.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about scourge, but crits are very very nice. It's free damage with no drawbacks. Best of all, it's more likely to kick in when you need it most (lieutenants and bosses). In contrast, defiance is less likely to kick in when you need it. If you're in a tough fight and losing health fast, it's very likely you'll be able to stay in that very narrow zone where defiance helps you. In those cases where your health may be dropping at a slower rate, you probably don't really need defiance anyway.
Fellow Blasters
Please stop arguing about how much you actually hate defiance for a minute. Statesman came in here and said their testing didn't show a problem with how defiance was working. He didn't say they had a problem with the concept of defiance.
Instead of wasting time and energy arguing about how bad defiance is, someone please go test it and post your results (maybe some screen shots). It can't get the bugs worked out of it if we don't tell them what they are.
They are asking us to define the bugs with defiance. Let's at least get the bugs fixed. I would help myself, but I'm at work all day. We've waited a long time for any type of response on defiance, please don't squander this opportunity.
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I like the idea of displaying defiance damage, if only for the reason that it would reveal how lackluster it is.
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That is another benefit I hadn't thought of before.
I truly believe it would help the inherent out if the effect was displayed like criticals and scourge (help make it more fun that is). It would also be nice if the combat logs recorded the extra damage defiance did seperately.
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I think this is a wonderful idea - right now, I treat Defiance as a power which I frequently forget about (probably gladly.) For my normal play style, which is to do my best to not get damaged, it isn't something that makes a lot of sense.
Personal opinion on Defiance:
I created my AR/Dev blaster before Defiance existed. It's my main. I level slowly (often on purpose) & take time to enjoy the scenery.
When Defiance was on test I went over & ran a number of missions (solo) to check out the workings of it. I rapidly came to the conclusion that if it was working as intended, it was simply another method of informing me when it's time to get out of the fight or die, for all the reasons listed by others on this forum. I posted my opinion at the time, & waited to see what happened. What happened is that the Devs kept defiance as was, although the adding of +ACC was nice.
It just doesn't work with my playstyle (intelligent) as opposed to Statesman's suggested playstyle. So I simply ignore it. Sometimes I have to remind myself what that extra bar on my status menu is. I was doing just fine before defiance, & I'm doing just fine now. Having an extra bit of color on my screen makes no difference to me.
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That chart can't be right.
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Agreed
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2. Criticals and Scourge are probably no better than Defiance at adding meaningful damage over the course of an evening of play.
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about scourge, but crits are very very nice. It's free damage with no drawbacks. Best of all, it's more likely to kick in when you need it most (lieutenants and bosses). In contrast, defiance is less likely to kick in when you need it. If you're in a tough fight and losing health fast, it's very likely you'll be able to stay in that very narrow zone where defiance helps you. In those cases where your health may be dropping at a slower rate, you probably don't really need defiance anyway.
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I don't need a power that is just as likely to give a damage buff to my 0.3 BI hold and skip my 9 BI blast as the other way around. Yes defiance is sluggish, that's why i throw my holds first when i'm low on health. I don't need a critical, I need defiance to work sooner, more reliable and decay slower, that's what I need.
YMMV, I like the concept, and even in it's current state I have occasional use (about 1-3 times per solo mission) for it. In teams it's less usefull, but then I don't really need it in teams.
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Please stop arguing about how much you actually hate defiance for a minute. Statesman came in here and said their testing didn't show a problem with how defiance was working. He didn't say they had a problem with the concept of defiance.
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We defined our problem, we now have testing done by players that shows that defiance is not working as the developers indicated that it should.
Exactly what more do you want out of the blaster population of players? Shall we reverse engineer this game so that we can discover the mechanics of defiance and then point out what is causeing the problem? It could be lag, it could be their netcode, it could be that the values are wrong. It doesn't matter though.
It is enough that we have defined our problem and shown (with numbers even huzzah) that the mechanic is not working properly for us. Now, it is up to the developers to either say they have no idea why it isn't working on the player end, that they know why it isn't working and will fix it, or that they are going to change it due to an overwhelming desire by the player base that it be changed.
In the meantime we can bash the heck out of the mechanic and vent about how much we hate it to our hearts content because that is partly the reason why we have these forums.
I realize that you may not have read all the posts and you were trying to be helpfull, I post this more as a warning to someone else who will try and tell people what to say and what to do.
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Fellow Blasters
Please stop arguing about how much you actually hate defiance for a minute. Statesman came in here and said their testing didn't show a problem with how defiance was working. He didn't say they had a problem with the concept of defiance.
Instead of wasting time and energy arguing about how bad defiance is, someone please go test it and post your results (maybe some screen shots). It can't get the bugs worked out of it if we don't tell them what they are.
They are asking us to define the bugs with defiance. Let's at least get the bugs fixed. I would help myself, but I'm at work all day. We've waited a long time for any type of response on defiance, please don't squander this opportunity.
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Dingly, I suggest you read the whole thread before assuming folks haven't posted test results. Also, it might help to go back and find out whether tens or HUNDREDS of people had posted test results when defiance was initially being...oh, I dunno, tested?
Defiance is less than adequate, by my estimation. I primarily use it as my "suck down purples ASAP" indicator. 
@Remianen / @Remianen Too
Sig by RPVisions
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I don't need a power that is just as likely to give a damage buff to my 0.3 BI hold and skip my 9 BI blast as the other way around. Yes defiance is sluggish, that's why i throw my holds first when i'm low on health. I don't need a critical, I need defiance to work sooner, more reliable and decay slower, that's what I need.
[/ QUOTE ]I'm not saying blasters need criticals, I'm just saying that criticals are a very good inherent power and mesh well with the scrapper play-style. I like the concept of defiance, but the margin for it kicking in and helping you is far too narrow to be as useful as criticals are to scrappers. I think if it kicked in around 80% and started getting close to the cap at 20-25% it would be much more effective.
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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I have read this thread. Apparently from Statesman's post, they need more information. I applaud the original poster who did numerous tests showing there are problems, but apparently they still need more data, so let's give it to them.
I think whining and complaining have been shown time and time again to not sway the devs position. If they say they need more information on the bugs, then let's provide them with that information. Opinionated arguing isn't going to get the bugs fixed. Testing and documentation will.
I agree, his response was still vague on what they are looking for in the testing, but I think we have enough compentent testers to give him more information than he'll ever need.
I'm not telling anyone what to post, I'm asking. I'm asking that people take advantage of the first dev post in here in a long time to make a positive change for blasters. Opportunity is knocking, if we don't answer the door, we shouldn't be surprised when it leaves and we're left empty-handed.
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Numbers aside, Defiance simply lacks synergy.
The risk simply outweighs the reward.
It is counter-intuitive for a no-defense based Archtype and benifical to work against it.
It is undependable in a time of need.
Unlike other Inherents, it is less useful as level progresses and threat levels increase, further exaggerating the damage scaling problem of the Archtype from 1st to 50th level.
Good tactics and playing style render the Inherent power inert and inactive, thus granting no benifit or functionality.
It does not mesh well with the kind of attacks that could help garrentee elimination of the immediate threat. High end attacks like nukes (that apparently can be interupted if the blaster dies during the animation), or snipe attacks (same deal), or melee attacks which propel the blaster further into risk and danger than away from it.
And finally, The Kings of the Face-Plant need no further encouragement to promote such a bad habit.
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QFT
The problem is with the very concept of the inherent, so no amount of bug fixing will ever make this inherent acceptable.
No matter how "happy" you are with it, no matter how many times you go over the code to make it less buggy, many (more likely, most) Blasters aren't going to like a power that only exists when our HP are low. We do everything we can to avoid a state of low HP.
Let me say that again.
We do everything we can to avoid a state of low HP.
The goal is not to die. Dying = bad. Therefore we avoid getting anywhere near that state if we can help it. By extension, you've given us an inherent power that we're actively working to avoid having. Instead of a power we look forward to using, or that we work toward using while doing what we do naturally, or that randomly activates with no downside, we have an inherent that (like our Defender allies) we work at all costs to avoid. THAT is what we don't like about it, and that is what needs to be fixed.
Why can we not simply have our PvP inherent ability (30% of our damage is unresistable, always), in PvE as well, instead of Defiance? Would that be gamebreaking? Would it be impossible to code? I guarentee that it would help us a LOT more, make a lot more of us happy with our inherent, and is far more thematically compatible with our concept ("we burn through enemy defenses better than anyone" makes more sense than "my damage output is based on my damage intake").
Defiance is simply not a good idea. I'm sorry if that hurts, but I'm being honest because I do care. Whatever is causing you to cling to this bad idea, please, let go of it. Swallow your pride, if that's what it takes. Stop trying to force us to like something that's completely counter-intuitive and counter-productive to the way we play.
I say the above with all due respect, and hope that it will not fall on deaf ears.
Respectfully,
Lightning Rod
<Guardians>
"I am certain that all CoX will be humbled by the might of the Lightning Rod." -Lady_Sadako
Defiance and Scourge are two sides of the same crappy coin. 95% of the time, by the time Defiance would make any difference, you're already dead. 95% of the time, by the time Scourge would make any difference, your enemy is already dead.
Just throwing this out there, though I do see a ton of flaws in it:
How about if Defiance kicks in when your Endurance gets low, instead've your health?
The issue isn't whether or not it works as they describe it, anyone who's played a blaster for any real length of time knows this. The reason why this test didn't work is because the OP had aim+bu goin' at the same time and hit the damage cap, likely.
The real harsh truth about Defiance is that it works exactly they way they say it does, but you have to be dead to use it and is therefore useless due simply to the nature of the way the power trips. In a team scenario my blasters are either between 85-100% health or dead. No two ways about it.
Giving blasters defiance is like giving a diet pill to someone who's morbidly obese by crushing it up and sprinkling it over a pizza.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!