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You forgot that not only did Leroy die he took the whole raid group with him.
But back to Defiance, okay some of have provided numbers. But I would still say that instead of getting yourself do to less than to 50% health so you can have a chance at one shotting a mob, why don't you just kill the mob quickly and not take any damage.
I have found that doing the latter will keep you playing longer and will not cause you a possible death.
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Yes obviously that's the best way to play but then that would make our inherint useless.
It's not about being able to 1-shot mobs. It's about having an inherint unique to blaster that's useFUL.
Heck I'd even love to see (but know this is way out of bounds for what they'd probably do) something like fury. However being solely damage based (and NOT linked to health.) The more damage you take the higher the bar builds (and depletes just as rapidly as fury.)
The depletion speed would help keep it under control and since it's damage based (and not attack attempt/dealt based) it'd require us to be taking damage and thus endangering our lives to use it.
"I stand up to you in defiance of the damage you are inflicting to me!" or something appropriately corny.
You know, of course, ideally speaking, from a power name like "Defiance", I would be happy to see them change the power to be more like as my health gets lower, my defense gets better. You know, to show defiance that I am not running and hanging in the fight, I get harder to hit, sort of like the "Vengeance" power. To me, that makes more sense.
Because, for the most part, I think Blaster damage is good enough, though I think its base could stand to be wratched up about 10% more than what it is now, but other than that, I think defiance should just increase blaster defense...
States please don't listen to whiners defience takes my scrapper out quickly in pvp. I clock a blaster they ge hurt bad next thing i know my sr scrapper get 2-3 shotted bye-bye.Defiance works anybody sayin otherwise wants an unfair advantage.
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States please don't listen to whiners defience takes my scrapper out quickly in pvp. I clock a blaster they ge hurt bad next thing i know my sr scrapper get 2-3 shotted bye-bye.Defiance works anybody sayin otherwise wants an unfair advantage.
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On the other hand, players could point out that supported blasters could be unbalanced in PvP with defiance since a supported blaster could have complete mez protection and capped defense as well as capped resistance. All he needs is defiance to allow him to cap out on offense and suddenly entire teams can fall prey to the uber buffed blaster.
That would justify changing defiance to a better power in PvE so that it doesn't affect PvP as much. I understand though that in your narrow view of the world, any benefit to blaster PvE is an automatic cause for them to be unbalanced in PvP and thus you will oppose any change to blasters even if they do kick your but in PvP.
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Speaking of quirks that never get looked at, how come when I fight something that does the "earthquake" power thing, I kill the NPC but the earthquake continues to grief me for 15 seconds, but yet I cast blizzard and as soon as I die blizzard stops. In case the devs missed it, Blizzard is NOT a toggle, it's a cast and as soon as I die, it's already snowing, so it should run its cycle, regardless.
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Is Blizzard a summons like a pet or do you need to target a valid enimy to cast it?
cause if it is a summons it will die with the caster cause their is nothing it's bound to. a power that requires a target will die when it times out or the target dies
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Quicksand is kinda broken for enemies actually. When an Earth Controller casts it, as soon as they drop, so does it. When an Earth Thorn Caster uses it, it still remains after they are defeated.
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I think it would be a good idea, if for nothing else, then to see the word DEFIANCE pop up over a stalkers head as I bonesmasher him.
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LOL.....defiance to the gank squad...I love it.
Liberty server
Eldagore lvl 50 Inv/ss, co-founder of The Legion of Smash
3.5 servers of alts....I need help.
May the rawk be with you.
Arc #'s
107020 Uberbots!
93496 A Pawn in Time
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live).
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No doubt; but your test environment may be irrelevant to the experience of most people due to the likely low latency (and high bandwidth if you are on LAN) to the servers. I doubt your test environment was getting a lot of the crashes many others were getting post I5 either. Unless a decent percentage of your QA department is playing through a mediocre broadband connection (and maybe even one or two via modem for a "worst case" test), there is little chance they will duplicate many of the problems your customers face.
For what it is worth, I have seen the same behavior posted by some of the others; a full defiance bar and no additional damage. I have also seen the other reported behavior (some defiance with no damage taken), although the latter issue is very rare and I know of no pattern to evoke it.
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From my own experiences with the subject-I think the problem with Defiance bars being wonky may have something to do with client-server latency.
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I just noticed your post after saying pretty much the same thing. I think you are correct. Unfortunately, unless one of the Devs reads the replies and thinks similarly I doubt if the issue (one of several I suspect are latency related) will be resolved (not that it really matters for Defiance, since its value is questionable in any case).
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It's still not coded to be 100% right.
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Then, frankly, it's 100% useless. If you have an inherent that has a bar display like Defiance or Fury, you should feel the effects of that inherent as your bar increases.
Fury works so why doesn't Defiance? I can't imagine that the coding would be so different.
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I just noticed your post after saying pretty much the same thing. I think you are correct. Unfortunately, unless one of the Devs reads the replies and thinks similarly I doubt if the issue (one of several I suspect are latency related) will be resolved (not that it really matters for Defiance, since its value is questionable in any case).
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Unfortunately posters like LivingHellfire and Revolver Law, de-railed this thread to a b!tch session about the effects of Defiance, uninformed or erroneous posts about how the devs suck or dont listen to us or are intentionally trying to make blasters lives miserable and the actual bug got lossed in a deluge of flame and irrelevant responses.
If only people would learn
I have already been flamed to the point of not caring, but if you want to fight the good fight create a new thread Defiance Bug ONLY. NOT DEFIANCE DEBATE!!! or something to that effect. There is a small chance you will actually weed out the people trying to fight for a change to Defiance and instead actually get the people that care about finding and fixing the real bugs.
As a pre-emptive response to the afore mentioned people who think defiance is bugged as a power on the whole: There is a difference between an actual bug, and the effect of the power. Put aside your own selfish motivations for one moment and realize that there is an actual bug (alleged bug) that people are trying to get fixed.
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Fury works so why doesn't Defiance? I can't imagine that the coding would be so different.
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Fury never takes large jumps. Defiance is known for going from 0.0 to 0.6 or 0.8 in less than a second. That's likely where the problem is.
And, yes, Fury does sometimes have a delay effect.
Ok... Ill trade you defiance for your chance to score critical hits and I'll walk away smiling.
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Fury works so why doesn't Defiance? I can't imagine that the coding would be so different.
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Fury never takes large jumps. Defiance is known for going from 0.0 to 0.6 or 0.8 in less than a second. That's likely where the problem is.
And, yes, Fury does sometimes have a delay effect.
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Blasters are known for going from 1.0 to 0.06 or 0. 08 in less than a second. That's likely where the problem is.
Fixed your typos and spelling errors!
::Comes in after 3 or so days of non-foruming, sees HUGE post about Defiaance/Uselessness::
::Blinks::
There is a God! Cast out ye doubts non-believers!
I am so not reading all these wonderful, wonderful posts. Too busy doing my happy dance.
Ohms! Are you in here man!? I can't sift through all this.....
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Enough so I've saved several teams by just continuing to fire where no sane mortal - even the tank - was left standing. (I also eat debt like candy in that toon. He's spent more time on the carpet than a rug doctor.)
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Debt is very bad for your long-term success as measured by your overall xp/minute or other similar measure. If you choose to use Defiance rather than healing and then die you have made an poor choice that has a lingering effect on how effective you are, not to mention bad short term effects like keeping you from the next level, not contributing to your team while examining rug fibers, etc.
No other inherent has such a poor trade-off when you choose to use it. Choosing is the key concept here - if you can't run and can't heal then Defiance is your best friend and may save you from a defeat - it does happen. In my experience it is often a very close thing - a team wipe situation for example. How often does it save me in those desperate straits? Hardly ever - a handful of times in hundreds of hours of play - as far as I can remember - I suffer from confirmation bias as much as anyone.
My lengthy post about how to really learn about Defiance has scrolled off the forum, but the gist was that anecdotal evidence isn't worth very much and so we need carefully gathered data that can be analyzed using standard techniques to get reliable answers to questions like: Do Scrappers get more benefit from Criticals than Blasters do from Defiance? Framing the question is an art in and of itself - Scrappers can't choose to use their inherent, but it never leads to debt when it happens, so in some sense it is clear that they do get more benefit since they never suffer a negative consequence from it. They would get more benefit even if happened only 1% of the time rather than 5%.
Recently I have been playing on a team of elec blasters and defenders. There have been times where I could allow my toon to hover around 40-50% for awhile in relative safety during fights. It turns out that doing so didn't materially change the outcome - I didn't notice that we finished a group of targets off any faster because of my extra damage - most of the damage is wasted because the targets have already been damaged during the rest of the fight. The amount of time a mission takes is usually dominated by the non-fighting parts (exception for AV missions atm), so that wasn't helped for the short time Defiance was supposedly giving me extra damage until I healed naturally. So, I stopped the experiment - I will always use a green at 50% - the extra damage reward just isn't enough to justify the overall risk.
Here is another way to look at it - a defeat means you only progress at 50% speed for awhile. That's just as bad as having a 50% damage debuff for that same time period if you are playing solo. Playing on a team helps you out in terms of reducing the actual game time you suffer from this debuff of course. If you can choose whether or not to use Defiance, does it in fact make sense to maintain an elevated risk of defeat rather than healing and reducing the risk of defeat? I think the answer is usually a resounding no - making choices that do not reduce the risk of defeat is usually a bad strategy.
Another point - there are other ways to increase damage that do not have this nasty side effect: inspirations, BU, Assault, etc. Choosing any of those alternatives seems to be a much bigger win than ever choosing to use Defiance. Now that I think of it, I wonder if blasters who use Assault end up leveling faster all other factors being equal - it would seem to make sense that that would be true.
This holds true also if the choice is to run away. I speculate that most team situations it is better for the team if you live and run away than die, even if you manage to take out a couple more opponents before you go. Although in a team wipe situation, surviving at the end isn't really "saving the team" - they all took debt. You may save some time but that's all.
I would gratefully accept a new inherent that I cannot choose to use if that inherent has no negative consequences. I would be happy with a 3.5% Critical hit. I think I would be happy with no inherent and a permanent 2% damage increase. Or an inherent long-recharge self-rez to 1 hp/1 end. Or an inherent that caps our debt at 2.5% of level instead of 5% like every other AT. That would be just fine with me.
Ohmi on Victory
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States please don't listen to whiners defience takes my scrapper out quickly in pvp. I clock a blaster they ge hurt bad next thing i know my sr scrapper get 2-3 shotted bye-bye.Defiance works anybody sayin otherwise wants an unfair advantage.
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It's true that Defiance can occasionally save your bacon in pvp, If you survive an assassination and respond quickly enough, you do get a supstantial advantage. This seems reasonable however when you consider the fact that you had no real protection against the attack to begin with. Additionally the main complaint here is regarding PvE not PvP. Many of the inherent powers don't play as much of a role in PvP anyway. You are referencing the one circumstance that defiance ever really does prove useful. Play a Blaster in PvE past level 20 and you'll see what we mean. It's not that we don't see what it does for those few tiny moments when we get to benefit from defiance, we're just frustrated by how little it does for us the majority of the time.
I have a 36 Sonic/Eng blaster and have been getting in situations lately where my defiance bar is pretty up there and I'm gonna go down and without other choices I go for defiance.
Sometimes it is in PVP so I don't care and sometimes it is in PVE where it means debt. I can't run away and I dont' have a green left but say I have a big hit power up but most of the time it doesnt' go off. I mean I can understand I'm gonna eat dirt but if my attack animation starts I should at least get like a being hospitalized blow?
I do hit bad lag in big fights sometimes so maybe it is my client behind and I'm already eating dirt but why then start the animation of the attack?
To me there is no other reason for defiance if I could run I woulda ran and if I could heal I would heal. I'm sure this probably always happend to me in other characters just since defiance means I have to be almost dead to use it I now notice that it is unusable at least for me on my machine with sonic attacks. It seems impossible with Dreadful Whail and Shout but my little scream sometimes has worked but it is kind of hard to duplicate the situation and really test it out.
If we don't get a hospitalized blow and if we don't finish our 3 second little show before our power hits before we die then wow this super sucks.
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Ohms! Are you in here man!? I can't sift through all this.....
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Sorry man. Been too busy. You have any idea how hard it is to get these tuxedo-clad koalas choreographed? Don't even get me started on how difficult it was getting the darn tuxs fitted in the first place.
Ladies and gentleman, we can crown Ohms king. Nay, we MUST crown him king. Our duty under God.
Just to add to this thread, same as most said. I dont see defience as useful. I have used it at full and saw nothing of use in it MOST of the time. There has been times that I did use it affectively however, which means yah, it is very bugged.
I dont rely on it. I would rather my health than the hope that I can get off a shot with full defience without being killed first. With that said, I love my blaster none the less, but wish we had the same advantages as the others.
Luke
Defiance is surprisingly very useful in pvp during longish fights against foes that whittle your health down slowly, which is kinda why they get angry at us when we blast them ta' hell after all that work they put in. The only thing they need to do is make it kick in earlier to make it actually useful in pve and then we will be complete 
--The day of the blaster draws ever closer--
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As a pre-emptive response to the afore mentioned people who think defiance is bugged as a power on the whole: There is a difference between an actual bug, and the effect of the power. Put aside your own selfish motivations for one moment and realize that there is an actual bug (alleged bug) that people are trying to get fixed.
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I'm sorry we're not posting according to what you would like to see. Perhaps we should PM you with every post before we publish it to make sure it fits with your prescribed notion of what is and isn't appropriate.
Fact is that we're absolutely on target and on topic, despite your claims and here's why;
The power, itself... sucks. What difference does it make if it has a very slight time delay bug when the thing that 90% of blasters is really looking for is to have it removed because they find it unacceptable?
Remove head from buttocks.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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Defiance is surprisingly very useful in pvp during longish fights against foes that whittle your health down slowly, which is kinda why they get angry at us when we blast them ta' hell after all that work they put in. The only thing they need to do is make it kick in earlier to make it actually useful in pve and then we will be complete
--The day of the blaster draws ever closer--
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True.
In fact, most PvP'ers love Defiance for PvP. Hell, on the rare occasions when I PvP I love it too... sometimes.
Too bad this isn't a PvP game.
This is a PvE game with emphasis on Teaming. If you choose to spend most of your time in PvP then that's up to you, but that's not what the game is about and you're choosing to spend your time in the CoF equivalent of the Chocobo races from Final Fantasy, or that stupid card game from KotOR. PvP is a mini-game in CoF, so the fact that the only time our inherent is actually useful is outside the pervue of the game proper kinda says something.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
You forgot that not only did Leroy die he took the whole raid group with him.
But back to Defiance, okay some of have provided numbers. But I would still say that instead of getting yourself do to less than to 50% health so you can have a chance at one shotting a mob, why don't you just kill the mob quickly and not take any damage.
I have found that doing the latter will keep you playing longer and will not cause you a possible death.