[ QUOTE ]
I cannot even begin to descibe the irony of this statement given your bickering with me over the last few posts. You and this attitude are precisely what I think is wrong with CoH and it's dev team. They're too wrapped up in their vision to understand that it's not just about the power being bugged (which, I gather, it is) but it's about the fact that we hate it! and it's not fun and that it's useless
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the sheer preponderance of posts may... y'know... indicate that there is in fact a problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
That sums it up perfectly.
Wow...
Just... wow
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You've seen no such evidence because we're ignored
[/ QUOTE ]
First off, what does being ignored have to do with someone posting or not posting this problem exists with a post date of pre-I6.
Second off, I think that people feel they are ignored because you can't give everyone personal attention. Or if you do, it won't be worth while personal attention. Think about how many people there are. There is no way to address everyones concerns on an individual basis. And the fact remains that issues have been addressed and changed because of player feedback.
Look, I am not trying to defend anyone here. I am not a friggin fan boy or whatever you guys call any oposing view. In fact I don't even concider myself an oposing view. I don't even think you understand my main point here (in all fairness, I guess I have a few.) When valid bugs come up, we should not drown them out with complaints about the power itself and we should put a stop to this Us against Them mentality. Again, that last statement was not a defence against "Them", it was a simple statement that perpetuating that kind of mentality is counter productive at best.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whose asking for person attention? I've been asking them fix a broken build for months. I've been asking them to fix lethal damage for around a year. Thing is, they don't say "No there's nothing wrong", they say things like "We're looking into it" or "We've received various complaints and we will investigate" - leading those concerned to the conclusion that they actually give a damn, which they don't.
When valid bugs they should be fixed and gurantee you this bug will not be fixed because it's anything that hasn't been reported and ignored before.
Maybe you just need to see it first hand. You'll have plenty of opportunity to do so.
For the record while I am a solo player the times I do team it is with experienced....and often "AWESOME" players. Defiance never even comes into it because I am healed by the "MISSINFORMED" or the bad guys get hit by "THORS ASSASIN" before I even get there.
The argument that defiance is good as is, is dumb. It's great that you found a way to use it but like all other things blaster if you compare it to the special abilities of other ATs defiance sucks.
If defiance had a beter scale for dam vs health at least then someone who solo's all the time, or people on a truely "AWESOME" team would be able to better benefit.
As it stands only those who work realy hard at making it work find any use for it. Or those who are on not so good teams.
[ QUOTE ]
You know how Fury builds up when the Brute gets attacked or attacked? And how domination builds up based only on how often the Dominator attacks?
What if defiance built up based on how often the Blaster was attacked only? That'd sure be better than we have now. They could nerf the max damage on defiance, but make it more useable.
[/ QUOTE ]
Arc Salvo's right. Having it tied directly to health is, in my opinion, of exceedingly limited usefulness past level 10. I have only had Defiance work well for me once. I was teamed with someone higher level than I and facing a ton of CoT Death Mages. One got me down to 1 hit point and managed to miss his next four or five attacks while I pummeled him with Defiance maxed out. 30 seconds later, a lucky shot made me a carpet.
I just wish it was less binary. Blasters are either OK or dead, so something that becomes the most useful when they're nearly dead rarely gets used in practice.
Have you or someone you know been the victim of Nerd Rage?
Find answers, get help.
In my experience, since the short time I've been here (since when I4 launched) the devs don't seem to treat Blasters "like crap", but have seemed to have put our issues on the backburner while working with the more outright "broken" (in their minds) AT's like Tanks/Scrappers/Controllers who were at the time overpowered, rather than looking at us Blasters who had our problems, but weren't soloing AV's and herding up entire missions and burn-patching them to death or perma-holding huge spawns and annihilating them with Fire Imps armies.
It's my perception that the devs do want to help us and are looking into things, but that they've been sidetracked and beyond that: it takes them time to test things thoroughly to ensure that they don't make any rash changes.
I mean, look at the upcoming changes to defense in I7. They've had the idea in concept for months, and started testing it Last October, I think? And they've just recently got it almost hammered out to the point where they can patch it it on live servers and have confidence that not only is it balanced, but also that it'll work without introducing a whole bunch of bugs.
Given that I think our multitudinous issues are probably more difficult to test/solve than the problems with Scaling Defense (or the QOL issue of AV's being unsoloable), I figure it'll take them more time, but I do think they really are looking into it.
It's just not easy for them to look into it long and hard enough to get substantial conclusions, imho.
At the very earliest, I'd expect a minor fix to something (maybe /Fire secondary) in I7, and more changes in I8 or so.
I get the feeling that they know that they've neglected us Blasters for far too long (not intentionally imho, Statesman's words in the dev digest circa I5 suggest they were planning to look at us back then) and so are determined to address our issues now that all the big problems with the "unbalanced" AT's (who can't powergame anymore thanks to I5/ED) have been "resolved".
I interpret Statesman's post in the Blaster forums (the first redname post I've seen in the Blaster posts period since I reg-ed) as a positive sign that they're honestly looking into things, and I do have hope that we'll get some answers somewhere down the line.
Not "Soon", but eventually.
Anyhow, I don't see why we don't get some % unresistable damage in pve as well as in pvp. As for defiance, I don't know why they don't make the buff very gradual and the final bonus much lower than it is now, but start very early instead (at maybe 80% health)? Like some suggested. Or any number of changes to defiance to make it useful in PVE. They could have it work differently in PVE than in PVP for example, like som AT's inherents do.
Anyhow, I have faith in the devs commitment to fixing us, although very little faith that it'll happen quickly.
edit: And again, Thanks for taking the time to post in our little forum, States. I'm glad to hear from you, even if not in detail
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the screenie Slyer, that's exactly how mine works too.
/e Looks at chart:
=>50% Health: +18% damage buff
< 40% Health: +35% damage buff
< 30% Health: +70% damage buff
< 20% Health: +140% damage buff
< 10% Health: +280% damage buff
< 5% Health: +400% (this is the damage cap for Blasters as of Issue 5)
/e looks back at screenie:
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
hmmmm....
Is that working as intended?? 
Fusion Force
I have very little faith anything will ever get fixed. They've played the same [censored] game with this ATs community over and over again. If they had any type of commitment to fixing Blasters they'd be posting more actively to at least let us know they give a damn. They post here no more than five times a year. To even get them to speak on Blasters before I5 launched there were 200+ threads of people posting about their Blasters (some good, most bad).
The Devs have never given this community any reason to have hope that they're going to fix anything.
[ QUOTE ]
Is that working as intended??
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you really want that answered?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the screenie Slyer, that's exactly how mine works too.
/e Looks at chart:
=>50% Health: +18% damage buff
< 40% Health: +35% damage buff
< 30% Health: +70% damage buff
< 20% Health: +140% damage buff
< 10% Health: +280% damage buff
< 5% Health: +400% (this is the damage cap for Blasters as of Issue 5)
/e looks back at screenie:
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
hmmmm....
Is that working as intended??
[/ QUOTE ]
If you assume 1.0 to be equal to +400%, and 0.0 to be equal to +0%, then it's 'working as intended'. A 0.1 Defiance value will be roughly equal to +40%. Someone at 1/3rd health should be experiencing values between 35% and 70% (0.875 and 1.75, respectively).
The Defiance bar makes defiance seem worse than it actually is. It only takes +10% to +30% damage to break even with your average Scrapper's benefit from Criticals. You get those benefits well before 33% HP; you actually 'beat' Criticals by a good deal at 40% health. The Defiance Bar just makes it look like you're only getting minimal benefit.
[ QUOTE ]
I never said no one posted test results in this thread. I never said many people before didn't post test results in other threads. I know this has been a problem for a long time, and many people have already tested and tried their best to get results. Obviously it's not an issue that has garnered any concern from the devs upto this point.
What I'm hoping for is this reply from Statesman is indicating a willingness to look into the problem. Could I be wrong? Sure. I hope I'm not though. The thing is, if it is our opportunity, then why waste it.
If the Devs tell us they don't see the same problem we do, and ask us to elaborate, why is our response 'We already told you before and you didn't care then, we're not gonna tell you again.'
It seems to me like we're shooting ourselves in the foot.
Since Stateman's response, not one person (including myself) has posted any type of information that would enable to developers to see the bugs in the current form of Defiance. The closest people have come is pointing out that they told us it would start kicking in above 40% and I don't think it currently does (Heck, I'm not even sure the accuracy bonus is really there either).
I'm not saying you guys don't have valid points about how bad defiance is. I'm saying if you want it "fixed" at all, then instead of complaining about it, post some specific tests showing its bugs.
Edit: Missed your post Greymist, good constructive comments. That's what happens when you have a meeting in the middle of a reply.
[/ QUOTE ]
Forget the Defiance bar and look at the numbers. Both Blueeyed's test and my test show Defiance kicking in well before 50% health. The question is whether it is kicking in when it is supposed to for the amount it is supposed to. We don't know. The problem as I see it is as follows: We have only a general idea of how the power works. Less health=greater damage. If I don't know what a power is supposed to do how do I tell if there is a problem? Unless we get specifics from the dev team we are all guessing.
I want to thank those few people who have posted data like States wanted however I think all the fighting has drowned it out. I barely noticed the data since I just started skimming through everything since most of the posts were useless.
It's been over 100 posts and 24 hours since States posted without another word from him. I think our chance to get something done is over.
Looking at Blueeyed's results, I have the opinion that the real problem isn't the Defiance itself, but the presentation of it in the bar, since the scaling of it does look like you're barely getting any boost at all. Perhaps they could change it so the bar moves up more at higher hp levels than currently?
Very perceptive, Blueeyed.
[ QUOTE ]
I want to thank those few people who have posted data like States wanted however I think all the fighting has drowned it out. I barely noticed the data since I just started skimming through everything since most of the posts were useless.
It's been over 100 posts and 24 hours since States posted without another word from him. I think our chance to get something done is over.
[/ QUOTE ]
He wasn't going to post in here again - that's the point.
[ QUOTE ]
Regards to Deffiance sucking. This is not the thread to post that. This is the thread to find the real problem. As far as it sucking. I firmly believe that it does not. If it sucks for you, then you do not have a good team. It isn't as good of a power Solo. Your team needs to keep the agro off of you when you are in the red and have Deffiance Activated. If your team does their job, you are a killing machine. I have a RL friend that is a controller. Together, using voice chant, we run through missions at 4 or 5 times the normal rate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just want to say that this thread has been worth reading if only for that last little bit. I wonder what kind of chants they perform to go through mission 4 to 5 times as fast as the normal rate? What is the normal rate? I gotta get me some of that chanting action.
Sorry if this was already brought up. I'm still laughing.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Regards to Deffiance sucking. This is not the thread to post that. This is the thread to find the real problem. As far as it sucking. I firmly believe that it does not. If it sucks for you, then you do not have a good team. It isn't as good of a power Solo. Your team needs to keep the agro off of you when you are in the red and have Deffiance Activated. If your team does their job, you are a killing machine. I have a RL friend that is a controller. Together, using voice chant, we run through missions at 4 or 5 times the normal rate.
[/ QUOTE ]
I just want to say that this thread has been worth reading if only for that last little bit. I wonder what kind of chants they perform to go through mission 4 to 5 times as fast as the normal rate? What is the normal rate? I gotta get me some of that chanting action.
Sorry if this was already brought up. I'm still laughing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohm-mon-ohm Shiva!
Ohm-mon-ohm Shiva!
Ohm-mon-ohm Shiva!
Ohm-mon-ohm Shiva!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the screenie Slyer, that's exactly how mine works too.
/e Looks at chart:
=>50% Health: +18% damage buff
< 40% Health: +35% damage buff
< 30% Health: +70% damage buff
< 20% Health: +140% damage buff
< 10% Health: +280% damage buff
< 5% Health: +400% (this is the damage cap for Blasters as of Issue 5)
/e looks back at screenie:
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
hmmmm....
Is that working as intended??
[/ QUOTE ]
If you assume 1.0 to be equal to +400%, and 0.0 to be equal to +0%, then it's 'working as intended'. A 0.1 Defiance value will be roughly equal to +40%. Someone at 1/3rd health should be experiencing values between 35% and 70% (0.875 and 1.75, respectively).
The Defiance bar makes defiance seem worse than it actually is. It only takes +10% to +30% damage to break even with your average Scrapper's benefit from Criticals. You get those benefits well before 33% HP; you actually 'beat' Criticals by a good deal at 40% health. The Defiance Bar just makes it look like you're only getting minimal benefit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh by the way, it should be noted that the defiance bar doesn't actually show you how much defiance you have. I am referring specifically to how it rounds to the nearest tenth. All of the data gathered to date may indeed not be as significant as it could have been had the display for defiance been more informative.
Information given to players is a good thing, as Martha Stewart would say.
One more note, anyone but me notice that according to that chart a blaster with more than 50% HP should have an 18% damage bonus and that in-between 50% and 40% he shouldn't have any bonus? Is that chart really correct, I was sure that Cuppa said there was a typo though. Too bad the inherant wasn't a typo.
HOLY CRAP!!! I never expected (or intended for that matter) this thread to be "ON FIRE!!!"
I am now level 22 and I posted this thread a few levels back. I must say that I've definatley learned one thing over the passed five levels:
Defiance only works when you pretend it's not there! It really has followed through for me. I really do turn into a killing machine; in both Group and Solo play!
Here's a little story:
I was facing a group of 25s (while 22) and I killed off every single one. I was around 75% health and a rogue level 26 Tsoo - Ancestor Spirit just wailed 2 shots on me and brought me down to ~5% and my Defiance bar shot up to full. I had time to pop Aim+BU and returned fire with a Bonesmasher + Power Burst combo and "Two-Shotted" a purple leiutenant. WOW!!! 
I must say I was lucky that it kicked in! 
Keep the posts coming guys! They're great!
-strikertouch03
[ QUOTE ]
(Sam Fetisher says)
[ QUOTE ]
It's up to me to do nothing. You are not someone that I need to prove anything to.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am assuming you were trying to contribute something to the conversation and that you are one of the people saying it was bugged pre-I6. As such you must prove it. I have already stated that I did not see the bug pre-I6.
[ QUOTE ]
How many people have to tell you that you're wrong before you accept it?
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me I am wrong prove it. As I stated earlier, I never take my users word for it at face value. Its a fact of the business. Try developing some time, and you will see what I am talking about.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having been a developer for the past 25 years and having done software QA for a good half of that, I am truly happy that I have (to the best of my knowledge) never worked with you, and why I hope that I don't have any software or systems in my home that you were part of the dev team for.
If you want to know why, here's two quick and dirty rules for bug categorization for successful software:
1) You never dismiss a bug report by dismissing the user or demanding that they 'prove it'. If their complaint is clear enough to be understood, you start tracking it and you work on resolving it. PART of that resolution might include getting a better description of the problem, or getting a way to reproduce the problem from the user.
2) You never dismiss a customer complaint which is based in the customer's dissatisfaction with a feature or a feature set. Ever. Especially you never tell the customer to their faces that they have to prove to you that their complaint is valid. This is the fastest way to lose customer confidence and a fast trip to failure for the product.
Now as far as anyone being required to 'prove' anything to you? No, sorry. You can demand until your face turns blue from the cold wind of your lips flapping and it won't obligate anyone else to do your homework for you. Look up the archives of the boards, and when you get to the expired posts, look them up on google or somewhere else, but nobody else has to do that for you.
All that aside, I know that I2 fixed a bug which made fire/devices blasters a truly appalling thing; as I recall, people still called it 'City of Blasters' for a long time after that, until around I4 or so.
Since I3, the 'love' has been lacking largely because blasters were not the AT that caused the worst problems for exploits.
And, yes, I consider Masochism, er, Defiance, to be utterly broken, as it is only useful in a handful of situations that no competent player will get into by choice. Only the "Negligence" power of Defenders is as worthless, and none of the CoH innates is as well-designed as the CoV innates. Gauntlet and Scrapper Crits are marginally OK, but they worked fine before the Special ED changes.
[ QUOTE ]
I am not sure what the irony is, please explain. I am not sure what attidude you think I have, please explain. I am not sure what I said has anything to do with what is wrong in CoH or the Developers, please explain.
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't bother because I didn't feel that, at this point, even if I did you'd get it since you clearly have your head firmly planted in your hind end, but thankfully someone else did it for me.
Thank you, Foomf, you summed it up nicely and that's precisely what I was thinking.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
Thread-Hijack--
LivingHellfire, it looks like you're coming out of a toaster in your avatar.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
[ QUOTE ]
Thread-Hijack--
LivingHellfire, it looks like you're coming out of a toaster in your avatar.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hehe... we better keep this short before the forum police gets here and insists that we take this to another thread. Heaven forbid a conversation evolve of all things.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
[ QUOTE ]
HOLY CRAP!!! I never expected (or intended for that matter) this thread to be "ON FIRE!!!"
I am now level 22 and I posted this thread a few levels back. I must say that I've definatley learned one thing over the passed five levels:
Defiance only works when you pretend it's not there! It really has followed through for me. I really do turn into a killing machine; in both Group and Solo play!
Here's a little story:
I was facing a group of 25s (while 22) and I killed off every single one. I was around 75% health and a rogue level 26 Tsoo - Ancestor Spirit just wailed 2 shots on me and brought me down to ~5% and my Defiance bar shot up to full. I had time to pop Aim+BU and returned fire with a Bonesmasher + Power Burst combo and "Two-Shotted" a purple leiutenant. WOW!!!
I must say I was lucky that it kicked in!
Keep the posts coming guys! They're great!
-strikertouch03
[/ QUOTE ]
ummm, why are you hitting bu and aim when your defiance bar is full? killing time for a power to recharge?
blaster cap is 500%. defiance will take you there by itself.
I'm suprised and please to see a red name on the blaster boards!!
For me defiance doesn't work because I never use the section of my health bar between half full and empty!
I don't work on numbers generally but as far as defiance goes, I can honestly say I never felt it useful on my main, a lvl 50 blaster.
The only time I have ever been able to say "ooh defiance is up" is the split second I die. If it kicked in sooner it would be great but generally when I die, I die fast. One on one with a boss I can see it might be useful but in a team situation it doesn't work.
If I'm at half health I'd rather take a heal insp than wait and use defiance. Same in pvp.
[ QUOTE ]
I cannot even begin to descibe the irony of this statement given your bickering with me over the last few posts. You and this attitude are precisely what I think is wrong with CoH and it's dev team. They're too wrapped up in their vision to understand that it's not just about the power being bugged (which, I gather, it is) but it's about the fact that we hate it! and it's not fun and that it's useless
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the sheer preponderance of posts may... y'know... indicate that there is in fact a problem?
[/ QUOTE ]
That sums it up perfectly.