Truth of Defiance: Unveiled --->
I understand that mentality and I share it, but there are some things that should be considered before one comes down too hard on those of us who are embittered.
Firstly, this is not the first thread on this issue. Secondly, it is also not a new issue in terms of age. At what point are we allowed to become fed up with the situation?
Also, please bear in mind that this is not the first issue that has been complained about, criticised and tackled by the community, with numbers, with data and in good faith only to have their very real evidence and very real concerns ignored.
Lastly, something I'd like to point out is that I complain the way I do, sound jaded and bitter becuase... well, I am! But more than that, I complain about the way the dev team treats the community, with their tyrannical and almost draconian methods and approach to the way the game works, their roller-coaster design philosophy, their complete disregard for anything even remotely resembling a static game experience because I feel that that is the thing that needs to be changed and looked at more than any broken power set. Those things are the things that are causing the larger issues with the game.
I don't complain because I'm some bitter, twisted soul in my parents basement, I complain and am bitter because I care about this game and about the community and what may sound like bitter and jaded rhetoric to some, when it comes from me is actually a genuine attempt to improve the game and the community.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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If I could just clarify?
In this case, Shadbolt is talking about "fun". We understand the dev team is a little tunnel-visioned but I think it safe to assume that when Shadbolt says "fun" in this case that he's not actually looking for something harder. Again, say it with me now... "Fun does not necessarily have to mean hard"
That's right, States... while one does not necessarily preclude the other, the two things are actaully mutually exclusive.
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You and others that post remarks like this are not helping the "Blaster Comunity". In fact you damage the overall comunity. Please stop posting inflamitory remarks.
This thread exists to track down any Defiance bugs. It was not intended to garner any kind of suport to change the overal effects of Defiance. (Which works awsome. See a previous post made by me earlier in this thread.) If you want to debate the point, PM me. Lets not de-rail this attempt to track and fix the real problem.
Please see the post right above yours.
If this was the FIRST post about bugs with Defiance then I would have participated, or not, as was approrpiate, but in truth this is a VERY old issue. I'm just one of the few who have come to realize that we can post whatever we like and very little will be done about it.
And THAT is the problem that I choose to post about. Let's change THAT problem with this situation, then we can look at fixing the game proper.
You're right, though, this is derailing the thread.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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Lastly, something I'd like to point out is that I complain the way I do, sound jaded and bitter becuase... well, I am! But more than that, I complain about the way the dev team treats the community, with their tyrannical and almost draconian methods and approach to the way the game works, their roller-coaster design philosophy, their complete disregard for anything even remotely resembling a static game experience because I feel that that is the thing that needs to be changed and looked at more than any broken power set. Those things are the things that are causing the larger issues with the game.
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What can I say...this is simply not true. There is nothing "Draconian" or "Tyranical" in thier methods...Not that I have seen anyway. I don't even get how you can say this. Please either give us a link to a thread that shows this. Give hard examples. I know there were some issues with scrappers where it seemed like they were "Ignoring" our results. This was a mistake. They weren't ignoring our results, they just used their results because that is what they saw. Unfortunatly there was a comunication breakdown (From what I remember) and they were using different builds. Again, show me exactly how you believe they are being Tyranical. And please don't turn this into yet another ED thread...in fact please respond via PM or start another thread and PM me or post what it is. I don't want this thread to become a bloated thread that misses the goal of tracking down this bug.
As far as
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...it comes from me is actually a genuine attempt to improve the game and the community.
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I don't doubt that is your goal, but understand that posting stuff like this
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They're too busy doing things like giving us temp 1-10 powers (as a solution to what problem, exactly? Who complained about this? Who said we needed this?) and defiance to actualy fix the real problems with the game and the powersets. How long have we been complaining about blaster secondaries as an entire set?
"We're looking at blaster secondaries" Yaya, whatever, I expect to see fixes to those around the same time as the SSOCS. Anyone remember that? "Shelved" Thanks.
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or this
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I'm just one of the few who have come to realize that we can post whatever we like and very little will be done about it.
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Does not help create a sense of comunity. (Especialy in cases of that second quote as that is a very false statement) In fact, they don't even belong in a thread like this that is trying to solve a problem. All it does is attempt to drive a wedge between the players and the developers. Do you remember what the forums were like just after release? There wasn't nearly as much "Us against Them" attitude. For the most part I blam the comunity and not the Devs. Thats not to say that they certainly do have to work on thier known issues list and "Stealth Nerfs" (Stealth Nerf = flaw in the proccess of keeping trake of release notes).
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If this was the FIRST post about bugs with Defiance then I would have participated, or not, as was approrpiate, but in truth this is a VERY old issue. I'm just one of the few who have come to realize that we can post whatever we like and very little will be done about it.
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This is actualy the first I have heard of the Defiance problem. That is to say the "Lag" of effect or persistance of effect after Hosping. As I stated in a prior post though, I haven't played any of my blasters since I6. I got on a Controller kick and CoV kick heh heh.
I guess its possible that any actual problems got drowned out by people complaining about the actual Deffiance power itself (calling it a bug).
The issue can't be that old since issue 6 release wasn't that long ago...or was it. Heck, I can't even rememeber. Either way, I will attempt to recreate the problem tonight and post my results tomarrow.
Defiance was before I6.
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Defiance was before I6.
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yes, but I assert that this bug did not exist before I6.
Yes it did.
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Defiance was before I6.
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yes, but I assert that this bug did not exist before I6.
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You should really do some homework before posting.
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Yes it did.
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I am not so sure about that. I was regularly playing 2 blasters when Defiance came out. Both over lvl 25 (one lvl 39 I think). I never had this problem, or at least don't remember having this problem. Show me a post that says it existsed from Pre-I6. This would be helpful information for the Dev team in order to find the bug...or at least find the cause of the bug (I.E. what patch did the problem get introduced).
I will attempt to find one using the Search feature...but I don't have much time to devote to this right now.
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You should really do some homework before posting.
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See post right after yours...
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You should really do some homework before posting.
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See post right after yours...
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And my point still stands.
Dude, look at the Phase Shift issue (the most recent one, as of a day or two ago), look at ED (yah, sorry, but it counts, whether you want it to or not) look at suppression, I could go on and on and on.
Fact is that I've TRIED to be a good boy, the way you're suggesting and be constructive, but the real issue here isn't the powers themselves, it's the fact that no matter how hard we complain or talk about it it won't make a difference, they'll fix it when they feel like fixing it. Period. You want a good example? Try the stupid pause after Ranged Shot in the Archery set.
You and I are in fact on the same side here, even though we're from differing opinions on how to deal with the problem. I encourage you to do the thing that you think will be constructive. Run the tests, post the numbers and so on. I won't tell you not to, I won't get in your way, but I ask that you please allow me the same courtesy when I post in a thread about what I feel is the major problem with the game, that being the very real perception that they're so mired in their "Vision" that they can't hear their client-base.
Because I realize what you're saying about a bloated thread is true, and because I realize this is a "Numbers and test results" thread I won't post any more about this particular vein in this thread. As you were.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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You should really do some homework before posting.
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See post right after yours...
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And my point still stands.
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As I have stated, I did not see the problem pre-I6. It is up to you to find me a post that shows the problem did exist pre-I6. (IF your goal is to get me or the Devs to acknowledge this). As a developer myself, I find it hard to trust users on their statement of what is actualy going on and regularly rely on Historical data to prove or disprove said statements.
I have begun to try and search for it, but am getting frustrated because all of what I have found so far has been statements to the effect that Deffiance is bugged because of its effect, not an actual bug more a unsatisfied player.
It's up to me to do nothing. You are not someone that I need to prove anything to. How many people have to tell you that you're wrong before you accept it? The Devs are not the angels you clearly want to make them out to be. They've treated the Blaster community like [censored] since launch and it hasn't changed.
Actually, no, defiance has sucked since it's inception shortly after I5. The posts that you are finding are testament to that effect.
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As a developer myself, I find it hard to trust users on their statement of what is actualy going on and regularly rely on Historical data to prove or disprove said statements.
I have begun to try and search for it, but am getting frustrated because all of what I have found so far has been statements to the effect that Deffiance is bugged because of its effect, not an actual bug more a unsatisfied player.
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I cannot even begin to descibe the irony of this statement given your bickering with me over the last few posts. You and this attitude are precisely what I think is wrong with CoH and it's dev team. They're too wrapped up in their vision to understand that it's not just about the power being bugged (which, I gather, it is) but it's about the fact that we hate it! and it's not fun and that it's useless
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the sheer preponderance of posts may... y'know... indicate that there is in fact a problem?
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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Actually, no, defiance has sucked since it's inception shortly after I5. The posts that you are finding are testament to that effect.
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As a developer myself, I find it hard to trust users on their statement of what is actualy going on and regularly rely on Historical data to prove or disprove said statements.
I have begun to try and search for it, but am getting frustrated because all of what I have found so far has been statements to the effect that Deffiance is bugged because of its effect, not an actual bug more a unsatisfied player.
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I cannot even begin to descibe the irony of this statement given your bickering with me over the last few posts. You and this attitude are precisely what I think is wrong with CoH and it's dev team. They're too wrapped up in their vision to understand that it's not just about the power being bugged (which, I gather, it is) but it's about the fact that we hate it! and it's not fun and that it's useless
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the sheer preponderance of posts may... y'know... indicate that there is in fact a problem?
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Bingo!
lots of people to reply to, but you first
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It's up to me to do nothing. You are not someone that I need to prove anything to.
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I am assuming you were trying to contribute something to the conversation and that you are one of the people saying it was bugged pre-I6. As such you must prove it. I have already stated that I did not see the bug pre-I6.
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How many people have to tell you that you're wrong before you accept it?
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Don't tell me I am wrong prove it. As I stated earlier, I never take my users word for it at face value. Its a fact of the business. Try developing some time, and you will see what I am talking about.
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The Devs are not the angels you clearly want to make them out to be.
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I am not trying to put them up on a pedistal. I never said anything that even comes close to that. I am attempting to help both you (the blaster comunity) and the Devs find the problem. That is all. Anything on the side was just an attempt to not de-rail this thread, something wich you seem to excell at.
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They've treated the Blaster community like [censored] since launch and it hasn't changed.
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I did not create my first blaster until I4, so I can't speak to how "they" treated us before then, but I can assure you that I have seen no such evidence. I would say calm down, think for a second, and tell me what your problem is...but in a PM. Or start a new thread. This is not helping anyone. This is the reason why "nothing gets done". The real issues are being drowned out by off topic posts.
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It IS coded to be 100% crap though.
Cheers.
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Amen to that. Even if it is working it's still a crappy buff in my opinion.
You've seen no such evidence because we're ignored. Statesman does the same thing he did in this thread. He pops in, gives a little [censored] lip service and doesn't come back.
I've been PMing him since October about how ED completely screwed over AR/Dev. It's not mid-January and he sends me a PM saying they'll look into it "eventually" - that's the exact word he used. I asked him specifically about it both times he came to Philly and he told me face to face he was going to test it himself. Yet it hasn't happened.
Only recently have my posts become angry, because frankly I'm tired of being strung along when something needs to get fixed, yet the second something has a chance of being slightly overpowered it gets the hammer ASAP.
So yea I'm pissed and this whole knockback fix didn't help the situation either.
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As such you must prove it.
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Anyone else having memories of Circuit_Boi?
We don't need to. You're the one with limited experience, as so stated. We're all in agreement, you're the dissenter, you go prove it.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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As such you must prove it.
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Anyone else having memories of Circuit_Boi?
We don't need to. You're the one with limited experience, as so stated. We're all in agreement, you're the dissenter, you go prove it.
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FLASHBACK!!!!
This is a reply to both you and Shadow_Song
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Actually, no, defiance has sucked since it's inception shortly after I5. The posts that you are finding are testament to that effect.
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As a developer myself, I find it hard to trust users on their statement of what is actualy going on and regularly rely on Historical data to prove or disprove said statements.
I have begun to try and search for it, but am getting frustrated because all of what I have found so far has been statements to the effect that Deffiance is bugged because of its effect, not an actual bug more a unsatisfied player.
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I cannot even begin to descibe the irony of this statement given your bickering with me over the last few posts. You and this attitude are precisely what I think is wrong with CoH and it's dev team. They're too wrapped up in their vision to understand that it's not just about the power being bugged (which, I gather, it is) but it's about the fact that we hate it! and it's not fun and that it's useless
Does it not occur to you that perhaps the sheer preponderance of posts may... y'know... indicate that there is in fact a problem?
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Regards to Deffiance sucking. This is not the thread to post that. This is the thread to find the real problem. As far as it sucking. I firmly believe that it does not. If it sucks for you, then you do not have a good team. It isn't as good of a power Solo. Your team needs to keep the agro off of you when you are in the red and have Deffiance Activated. If your team does their job, you are a killing machine. I have a RL friend that is a controller. Together, using voice chant, we run through missions at 4 or 5 times the normal rate.
Solo, it is not something you can rely on, but I have had it save my life a couple of times.
I am not sure what the irony is, please explain. I am not sure what attidude you think I have, please explain. I am not sure what I said has anything to do with what is wrong in CoH or the Developers, please explain. [When I say please explain, I mean please start a new thread, post a link to it here, and explain in that.]
My concern would be first and foremost the actual Bug with the power. Not the percieved "bug" with how it works. As I stated the power is awsome, people just aren't using it the same way I am I guess. I am almost sure that if people were, it would probably get nerfed concidering how disgustingly effective I was with it.
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You've seen no such evidence because we're ignored
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First off, what does being ignored have to do with someone posting or not posting this problem exists with a post date of pre-I6.
Second off, I think that people feel they are ignored because you can't give everyone personal attention. Or if you do, it won't be worth while personal attention. Think about how many people there are. There is no way to address everyones concerns on an individual basis. And the fact remains that issues have been addressed and changed because of player feedback.
Look, I am not trying to defend anyone here. I am not a friggin fan boy or whatever you guys call any oposing view. In fact I don't even concider myself an oposing view. I don't even think you understand my main point here (in all fairness, I guess I have a few.) When valid bugs come up, we should not drown them out with complaints about the power itself and we should put a stop to this Us against Them mentality. Again, that last statement was not a defence against "Them", it was a simple statement that perpetuating that kind of mentality is counter productive at best.
/agree
The issue here isn't how to make Defiance better (IMO it doesn't need to be better). The issue is, why are some people having problems (I.E. defiance kicking in at near 100% health, defiance not kicking in at 1 HP.)
If you can recreate the problem, then please take a Screen Shot and post it along with what was going on at the time.
I never had this problem before. But I haven't played my blaster since I6 was released.