You know how Fury builds up when the Brute gets attacked or attacked? And how domination builds up based only on how often the Dominator attacks?
What if defiance built up based on how often the Blaster was attacked only? That'd sure be better than we have now. They could nerf the max damage on defiance, but make it more useable.
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
You guys all make excellent points.
Right now I am loving Defiance, but my Blaster (the only one I have ever built) is level 8...Ice/Nrg so the Defiance means I usually finish mission a LOT faster than I normally should.
That said, I think the Corruptors got what we should have, the ability to nail down injured foes.
Also, I don't think I've ever ever eaten pavement as much with a toon a I have with a Blaster...
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
Woohoo...I go tthe next post.
(Sorry, never actually got the next post after Statesman. 
)
Prof
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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ZOMG! Statesman actually posted in the Blaster forum! He did it! I guess they are reading our posts! *faints*
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
strikertouch03:
Aim gives +62.5%, Build-Up gives +100%, so that total should be +162.5%. Added to the base, should be 262.5%, plus ~50% for the DOs (not sure if this is accurate--you'd be in the best position to know) would be 312.5% Damage. The Blaster Damage Cap sits at 500%. I don't know how Defiance scales, so can't comment about that.
Statesman:
First, let me express my pleasant surprise that a red name is posting in this part of the forum. It's been a long time.
That said, there's something wonky with Defiance. I can't speak to this specific claim, but I know with certainty that I've had Defiance kick in when I've been at 85-90% Hit Points (meaning I'm 10-15% injured). It wasn't much, but I noticed a slight damage increase and, if I recall correctly, it shouldn't have kicked in for a while.
It may help for us to have "full disclosure" here. I know you're opposed to giving out specific numbers, but knowing them would put to rest (or, alternatively, confirm) rumors that Defiance is erratic.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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My experience, and this can probably be better explained by the more experienced blasters, is that defiance works properly a good 98% of the time. However, in some situations - most noticable right after a large amount of your health bar is taken away or healed up - it seems to suffer some problem with not being updated. Note that this isn't always accurately reflected by the defiance bar.
I've personally had 0 defiance at one HP (and in one memorable event, revived at the hospital and kept something around 0.8 defiance at full health). It's not common, but when it occurs, it's very irritating.
As a secondary issue, Defiance seems useful to a Blaster only when they decide to actively abuse the power (combining, say, Stealth, a fall from the Flight cap, and a Thunderous Blast). In normal play, it's second to only Vigiliance in inherent powers, it simply doesn't help good blasters, and doesn't encourage bad ones to do better.
EDIT: can we get confirmation that the numbers from here are correct, or, if not, can we get the right ones?
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=>50% Health: +18% damage buff
< 40% Health: +35% damage buff
< 30% Health: +70% damage buff
< 20% Health: +140% damage buff
< 10% Health: +280% damage buff
< 5% Health: +400% (this is the damage cap for Blasters as of Issue 5)
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I could swear that I've been at ~45% health and gotten no benefit at all fairly regularly.
That chart can't be right. I play my Blaster frequently in melee range and I'm almost always at 50% HP or less by the end of a fight. My Defiance bar does. not. move. unless I'm at 10-15% or so, and even then it's barely worth mentioning.
I'm not noticing any increase in damage, but I can't say for certain it's not there. Perhaps the Defiance bar needs to work on a scale of 100s to make it a bit more obvious.
I'm pretty sure that the chart isn't right, but I'm at work for the next hour and a half (and can't use the CoH client at this workstation). When I get home, I'll probably try to test and get some exact values.
I do know that there's some benefit. At 25% health, my lowbie Elec/En (concept) blaster is capable of killing an enemy with just one Energy Punch, which would normally leave them with enough health for a Brawl and a Taser.
It's just not always there, and I agree with you that the values on that chart are off - I was hoping that bringing them up in this thread would result in either Statesman or one of the website information managers taking a look at it.
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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How about it's no help at all. That by the time you get any meaningful buff you're likely going to flaceplant anyway?
Honestly, this isn't anything that hasn't been brought up before. Please spare us the lip service if no action is going to be taken.
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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It works and this is how I know it works. I was pissed that as an MM a Blaster (and most of the heroes AT builds) can one to shot MMs. So undusted a lvl26 AR Blaster I haven't used since he was my main and came back to CoX. I then respeced him removing all his enhacements. I then when to SC and started shooting stalkers. Couldn't hit them usually and if I did the damage was neglaible. So I flew up into the ski and fell. Ha, if it wasn't for the -10-15% damage decrease I would have been one shotting thse suckers. Oh, btw blasters where a piece of cake and with no enhacements no less 
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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How about it's no help at all. That by the time you get any meaningful buff you're likely going to flaceplant anyway?
Honestly, this isn't anything that hasn't been brought up before. Please spare us the lip service if no action is going to be taken.
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Glad to see nothing's changed in my absence (and no, I dion't expect you to have noticed. )
They're too busy doing things like giving us temp 1-10 powers (as a solution to what problem, exactly? Who complained about this? Who said we needed this?) and defiance to actualy fix the real problems with the game and the powersets. How long have we been complaining about blaster secondaries as an entire set?
"We're looking at blaster secondaries" Yaya, whatever, I expect to see fixes to those around the same time as the SSOCS. Anyone remember that? "Shelved" Thanks.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
As others have said the most I have is anecdotal. Defiance, is not very easy to measure in combat.
The big thing is how little benefit you see in when your health bar is hanging in the middle between full and empty. Usually this is when defiance is just not kicking in. Other times in a big fight with several mobs (more than 10) I may get hit by a Tank Swiper for a large amount of damage and it takes awhile for my defiance to kick in. Realize that I am hovering at death. There is no time to wait the couple of seconds that it takes for it at times.
Which is what really makes defiance a frustration to even consider useing in the higher level game. It's bonus would be much more usefull if the bonus were seen sooner and on a more gradual scale. The massive scale up when a person is below 5% health is meaningless with the current coding because of how rare it is for a blaster to survive long enough to use the bonus when they are that low on health. Hell, at that health level an auto-hit damage aura will kill off the blaster.
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The massive scale up when a person is below 5% health is meaningless with the current coding because of how rare it is for a blaster to survive long enough to use the bonus when they are that low on health. Hell, at that health level an auto-hit damage aura will kill off the blaster.
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This has been said over and over since I5 by poeple liek you and me who actually PLAY the game. Nothing has been done. I am amazed and awed by your patience with posts like this, Concern.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.
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http://www.openmindcreations.com/j5/coh/defiance.jpg
Note: level 50 blaster
At 1/3 or so life I had .1 defiance, it wasn't until I was almost dead that the bar actually went up.
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*Working as intended*
I've spent the last few hours playing my blaster on virtue. I was fighting +2 and 3 mobs the whole time on an 8 hero team on invincible missions.
Within those hours of play defiance played no part in helping me or my team. When I would get some defiance, the accuracy bonus seemed non existant. and the little time I had left to live did not allow me to make good use out of high level defiance I'm usually the first to face plant.
It didn't help when I tried to solo a heroic mission with even con and -1 mob. I died and had to restock on insps to make it through.
Defiance hasn't helped me in casual solo or large scale team situations. So why do we even have it? So we dont feel left out? Shed some light on this.
Now I agree that defiance is crap and only slightly useful if you try to exploit it, however, States wants to here about the bug in the OP. We should stick to info on that rather than venting about defiance else we may be waiting many more months before another red name shows up here again.
Edit: Wow. Quite a few posts between mine and the last one I saw. My point is just letting him know that we think it's crap isn't going to do us any good since we've been saying it since pre-I5. He wants data.
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Now I agree that defiance is crap and only slightly useful if you try to exploit it, however, States wants to here about the bug in the OP. We should stick to info on that rather than venting about defiance else we may be waiting many more months before another red name shows up here again.
Edit: Wow. Quite a few posts between mine and the last one I saw. My point is just letting him know that we think it's crap isn't going to do us any good since we've been saying it since pre-I5. He wants data.
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Data has been given since it was on test. Nothing done.
The point remains that Statesman pops in every blue moon and talks a good game about possibly giving the problems this AT has some consideration.
Last time, our secondaries were supposed to be getting looked into and what did we get? A minor HP buff. /Fire still sucks, AR/Dev still sucks. Yet they don't miss an opportunity for nerfage.
I used to be full of hope like you, now I'm just a bitter old Blaster with a busted gun and outdated gadgets.
The defiance bar itself is buggy. I am uncertain whether or not defiance itself is buggy. I have seen the bar go up for no reason. I have seen it not budge from a small speck even after getting a huge hit which drops me to blinky red, almost no life bar at all (Gotta love Devoureds). I agree with Blueeyed that it is unusual when it happens, although I might guestimate it at more like 93% of the time everything is fine, but the other 7% something wonky happens. I want to repeat that as far as I know it is just the viusal meter that is wonky, but that is because I have no real way of knowing whether or not the actual effect is going off.
Although you have probably read this, I would like to say it again since you have posted in this thread.
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1. Eliminate the Defiance bar. I already have a bar that tells me when defiance is working. Health bar low, defiance is working.
2. Criticals and Scourge are probably no better than Defiance at adding meaningful damage over the course of an evening of play. Criticals and Scourge are cooler looking and make the team go oooh-aaaah. Why is that? Because when they happen everyone sees the word Scourge or Critical (Domination too) and more numbers. When blasters get Defiance, the target should have the word Defiance fly above his head and the extra damage done should be a seperate number. As goofy as this sounds, I believe this would make Defiance more fun.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Basically, as Phoenix said, he doesn't want "we think it's crap". That's not specific data.
He says, through all the posts here, that it's working "as intended". What does this mean? Perhaps that those who are trying to test it aren't fully aware of the minutae of the "intentions" of the ability. OIne suggestion was that, perhaps, it's not total health left, but damage taken, and further that said damage needs to be mob-generated...? Just a thought.
That QA response doesn't say what aprt of the player-done testing was incorrect testing procedure. Perhaps the way damage was taken to trigger it had something to do with it.
Just a thought.
I've noticed it working just fine on my 30's El/El Blaster, as well as my baby Ice/Ice Blaster. I levelled many characters before these things went in, so I'm not about to throw a temper tantrum if they don't work how I want them to, either. I play as if they aren't there, and am happy when they do kick in.
Simply put "Working as Intended" usually isn't synonymous with "working the way the players think"... 
Revolver:
/Dev sucks? Really? I've done quite a few TF's since being back, including Rudalak, and the only Blasters with us were /dev... And they laid literal waste to things with their tripmines n such. It was a site to behold. The two of them would have most of the mobs dead before I could get a swing in... If that "sucks", I want some suckage.
Strato:
Yeah, that's what I actually think. Perhaps the bar for Defiance is buggy, depending on what you've done with your interface. I do notice that since I've set my UI size to 90%, the bar almost never moves, though I do see/"feel" anecdotal evidence that it's working just fine, such as when I get low on health, I'm suddenly missing almost never and they're dying faster...
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Simply put "Working as Intended" usually isn't synonymous with "working the way the players think"...
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Yet whenever something is working fine, it's wasn't "working as intended" and gets nerfed.
Funny how that works.
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Simply put "Working as Intended" usually isn't synonymous with "working the way the players think"...
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Yet whenever something is working fine, it's wasn't "working as intended" and gets nerfed.
Funny how that works.
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"Working fine" to a player, as has been evidenced here and in other games, is rarely the same as "working correctly".
I mean...players thought that burn tankers powering through a field of +10 purples to PL people was "working fine". Sure...but it still wasn't right.
It's not that /dev can't do fun things with tripmine (if the /dev in question took it), it's that it takes a long time to set up and most teams won't wait for you. You also can't 100% predict where mobs will run to and in what #'s and how closely they'll be together when they go towards mines.
But with aim+buildup (or just buildup) you get an instant damage buff that allows you to put out a lot of burst damage very fast with a significant accuracy buff, and because you're using your regular attacks, you can aim those attacks wherever you want to.
It's just easier/faster/more convenient to use buildup rather than mines, and on teams that are moving fast particularly.
And then there's the lack of significant self buffs and melee attacks in /dev.
If you think /dev is uber, try Fire/Eng on any team. I mean sheesh!
Arc Salvo: Okay hold one sec guys, we can't just rush in blindly vs these Nemesis, they've got these ranged aoe's tha-
Teammate1(charging in): Shut up, Arc Salvo, you lame*$% Viewtiful Joe wannabe! What do you know?!
Teammate2(also charging): yeah, ST#& arc salvo u PWR RANGR U!
Arc Salvo: *sigh*
What I hate about defiance, is that it rewards bad and reckless play. In a group, a blaster is supposed to learn to gauge his agro, and if the group is any good, defiance won't be an issue. Solo, a Blaster is about calculated risks, and running around in the red a big risk for as small as the reward is in the latter levels.
I think they need to take out the health component and make it soley on damage taken. Kinda like fury. That way you can be healed, and not instantly lose the bonus, and your own regen rate won't chip away at it.