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It's not that /dev can't do fun things with tripmine (if the /dev in question took it), it's that it takes a long time to set up and most teams won't wait for you. You also can't 100% predict where mobs will run to and in what #'s and how closely they'll be together when they go towards mines.
But with aim+buildup (or just buildup) you get an instant damage buff that allows you to put out a lot of burst damage very fast with a significant accuracy buff, and because you're using your regular attacks, you can aim those attacks wherever you want to.
It's just easier/faster/more convenient to use buildup rather than mines, and on teams that are moving fast particularly.
And then there's the lack of significant self buffs and melee attacks in /dev.
If you think /dev is uber, try Fire/Eng on any team. I mean sheesh!
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I see what you're saying, but fun - at least in my eyes - is being on par with other Blasters. I have a whole thread about this so I'm not going to get into here.
I'll just say, AR/Dev's days of being equal with other Blaster builds are over and have been for quite some time.
Here's some testing, done with a level 6 Elec/En (concept build) using an unenhanced Lightning Bolt. Max HP 166.8. Enemy was a level 1 Hellion, for ease and survivability.
166.8 HP : 100% HP : 36.59 energy damage - 100%
92.9 HP : 55.7% HP : 39.62 energy damage - 108%
81.6 HP : 48.92% HP : 41.34 energy damage - 113%
73.2 HP : 43.88% HP : 45 energy damage - 123%
40.2 HP : 24.1% HP : 70.98 energy damage - 193%
38.2 HP : 22.9% HP : 76.86 energy damage - 210%
15 HP : 8.99% : 95.38 energy damage - 260%
These values are significantly off the numbers given in the features update I linked earlier in this thread.
All inflicted damage was caused by Jingle Jet 'accidents'. I allowed one regeneration tick to occur, counted to two, then right-clicked on my health bar and fired the blast as soon together as possible.
Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Not all are meant for pure, unadulterated damage.
In fact, I never take fire because I was solid single-target damage, and frankly I feel that fire/ single-target damage is second to dark/ defenders... It's great for AoE, but I don't like to AoE farm. Far more unknowns to that than there are with using tripmines.
Personally, I choose Ice as a secondary. I can solo mezzing Bosses (named non av's), such as the big orange meanies of The Lost and Rikti with that... Slotted duration, knockdown, and reuse, I keep fields of mobs +1, +2, and up flopping around on the ground ineffectually while I pick them off one by one.
But then, Ice has some of the worst as secondaries go...well...except the various ways to slow and incapacitate.
Same with /El. No appreciable damage, the end drain ability seems almost worthless, but the sheer amount of ways I have to lock down a mob and make them a non-issue works, for me.
If all the secondaries were meant to behave the same, there'd be no point to anything else.
Frankly, until the "nerfs", AR/Dev was so grossly overpowered it was sickening... Same for Burn Tankers. What some people can't seem to get over if the fact that they aren't gods among gods anymore. Seriously, everyone and their poor relation were fielding AR/Dev blasters and Fire/Fire tankers. Why? They were grossly overpowered.
Now, each gives up something to do something else. Perhaps you don't enjoy that something else. That's understandable. Fire/ may be considered the new god among god Blaster builds. I'll still build my blaster for my playstyle.
Guess what... Long after the FoTM'ers have switched because that build now "sucks [censored]", I'll still be playing what I enjoy playing, instead of playing whatever is considered the "best" at the time.
Each needs to have tradeoffs. If there's no downside to any one combination, that's the time to create one...
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What you don't get is "working as intended" and "not working as intended" have always been the phrases used as an excuse to leave something alone or to nerf it.
The community would have more respect for the Devs if they just came out and said,
"When we added this, X power had to be adjusted because of this, this and that"
or
"Due to player ability to exploit/PL/whatever, we've had to adjust X power"
instead of saying
"It was never working as intended"
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This is where your argument falls apart. I get what the quoted statement here says. However, that's rarely the implication of the players complaining.
"Working as intended," nominally, means that the ability is, strangely, working as it's intended. I think what bothers players most is that they don't want to hear that it's working how they meant it to. What they want to hear is how, exactly, that is, because they can't seem to justify some of their anecdotal evidence.
I've often found that this is at the core of player complaints about that phrase...the core issue being that they don't know what was "intended" in the first place... It's quite common in the internet community to completely fabricate numbers and "evidence" in the absense of knowing what that "intended" was... 
AR/Dev was far from overpowered pre-ED. Smoke Grenade was still useless, Cloaking Device was still no better than Stealth, Trip Mine was still buggy, Auto Turret still sucked.
ED compounded all these problems when we were no longer able to 6-slot damage enhances in our attacks to make up for the lack of Build-Up.
Please don't even try to get into with me on AR/Dev - it's not an argument you're going win.
As for the other secondaries, /Energy is far and away more useful than other secondary Blasters have available to them. That's fact.
Also, not everybody plays a FOTM. You really think I've been giving the Devs hell about AR/Dev for the past 3-4 months (and about Lethal damage in general way before then) because my FOTM got nerfed? If I or anybody else played a FOTM that got nerfed we'd move on to the next build - that's what people who play FOTMs do. They don't make post after post proving the set or build is broken, they just role up the new uber build.
A mass amount of people stopped playing AR/Dev when the Smoke Grenade bug was fixed. Same when Burn was nerfed.
If/when Hurricane get nerfed, I gurantee you'll see less stormies. Same thing with a few other builds I'm not going to mention cause I don't like to nerf herd.
All secondaries aren't meant to the be same, but they're supposed to be equally affective - and the current state is far from that.
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What you don't get is "working as intended" and "not working as intended" have always been the phrases used as an excuse to leave something alone or to nerf it.
The community would have more respect for the Devs if they just came out and said,
"When we added this, X power had to be adjusted because of this, this and that"
or
"Due to player ability to exploit/PL/whatever, we've had to adjust X power"
instead of saying
"It was never working as intended"
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This is where your argument falls apart. I get what the quoted statement here says. However, that's rarely the implication of the players complaining.
"Working as intended," nominally, means that the ability is, strangely, working as it's intended. I think what bothers players most is that they don't want to hear that it's working how they meant it to. What they want to hear is how, exactly, that is, because they can't seem to justify some of their anecdotal evidence.
I've often found that this is at the core of player complaints about that phrase...the core issue being that they don't know what was "intended" in the first place... It's quite common in the internet community to completely fabricate numbers and "evidence" in the absense of knowing what that "intended" was...
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So now you're saying when proof is given it's fabricated? - Wow, you're reaching there aren't you?
Why should players not now a power is supposed to work? We only get to choose X amount of them, why shouldn't someone be informed on exactly how it's supposed to work?
I hate to throw this word around, but due to your total lack of reasoning and common sense you're sounding more and more like a fanboy with every post.
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Criticals and Scourge are probably no better than Defiance at adding meaningful damage over the course of an evening of play. Criticals and Scourge are cooler looking and make the team go oooh-aaaah. Why is that? Because when they happen everyone sees the word Scourge or Critical (Domination too) and more numbers. When blasters get Defiance, the target should have the word Defiance fly above his head and the extra damage done should be a seperate number. As goofy as this sounds, I believe this would make Defiance more fun. If an inherent is not overly useful, at least it should be fun.
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I like this idea.
I also agree that the possibility that lag is a factor in Defiance damage or the Defiance bar should be investigated. Those people who can easily manipulate Defiance might have faster systems or something than the people whose testing shows it does not work.
Story Arcs I created:
Every Rose: (#17702) Villainous vs Legacy Chain. Forget Arachnos, join the CoT!
Cosplay Madness!: (#3643) Neutral vs Custom Foes. Heroes at a pop culture convention!
Kiss Hello Goodbye: (#156389) Heroic vs Custom Foes. Film Noir/Hardboiled detective adventure!
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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if range = defense as you've stated, then why are we getting buffs when we're getting the crap kicked out of us? the point is to stay at range to increase our survival, yet we get a "bonus" for taking a beating. that's the problem with defiance. that, and by the time it's reached a meaningful level, we're dead anyway. i mean, it kinda makes sense for a defender's inherent to be based on team health, since they are to protect the team, but why do blasters have to get the daylights beaten out of them to see a meaningless bonus?
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Doublechecked Defiance - and its working for us (internally and on live). Can anyone give more details about this issue?
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if range = defense as you've stated, then why are we getting buffs when we're getting the crap kicked out of us? the point is to stay at range to increase our survival, yet we get a "bonus" for taking a beating. that's the problem with defiance. that, and by the time it's reached a meaningful level, we're dead anyway. i mean, it kinda makes sense for a defender's inherent to be based on team health, since they are to protect the team, but why do blasters have to get the daylights beaten out of them to see a meaningless bonus?
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LOL
Not that I think the situation is funny, but the way your worded that was great.
The issue itself is simple.
Defiance is by and large useless for the following reasons (general list not all inclusive)
Kicks in after faceplanting
No tangible benefit during a team mission
Inconsistent/seemingly random damage buff when it does kick in
Rewards sloppy non-team oriented play
Defiance stays on after Blaster is fully healed (This is actually useful BTW.)
Only has a real tangible benefit at lower levels (1-12 mileage may vary) when Blaster cannot be killed in 3 hits or less.
In short, it is the exact opposite of what a Blaster would want. The AT is not designed for taking damage of any kind, has no defenses to speak of and at higher levels plants like a Tulip Blub at a windmill convention.
When it does finally actually kick in and provide a boost, as soon as any healing (Natural or otherwise) takes place it drops off so fast that it is of no benefit at all <Especially in a team setting with a solid support group>
Then there seems to be a "lag" issue, I.E. that the reward if and when it actually could provide a benefit does nothing as it hasn't "registered"
I understand the Concept I truly do
<Tom Hanks in Saving Private Ryan springs to mind>
It just doesn't work.
By the time the benefit is there, only 1 hit of any kind remains before Death and Debt.
It is useless in Solo play at higher levels as risking the Debt is not worth hangin in the fight at all.
Suffice it to say, if it just stuck around for 1 shot after were back in the green that would make it worthwhile.
Anycase, roll a Blaster up to 38 lets say, find a mob with multiple attack capablities like the COT and go to town.
It has inherent flaws in it's make-up. Please give us something "decent" not godly or game shattering just something that makes the AT more fun to play that acts as a pleasnt surprise opposed to a Warngin Claxon to retreat.
Thank You.
only time i ever defiance makina difference is in pvp
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only time i ever defiance makina difference is in pvp
[/ QUOTE ]Ditto. I see it in effect in PvP a lot more than PvE.
I thought Posi already posted somewhere that fall damage doesn't "count", so Defiance wouldn't have kicked-in for the scenario described by the OP. Defiance only works when the damage you've taken comes from actual combat, not from falling to 1 HP -- I believe Posi said he did that on purpose to address a potential Defiance exploit?
From what I have noticed, The Damage bonus kicks in two seconds AFTER it is shown.
If I get dropped to 1 hp, then heal to full, then fire off an attack, I will be at the 500% cap.
If I get dropped to 1 Hp, then fire as soon as I my Defiance bar fills, I will get no bonus at all.
I tested for about an hour with my blaster and a tall building tonight, same thing each time: two second time delay.
01001001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110000 01101001 01100101
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I thought Posi already posted somewhere that fall damage doesn't "count", so Defiance wouldn't have kicked-in for the scenario described by the OP. Defiance only works when the damage you've taken comes from actual combat, not from falling to 1 HP -- I believe Posi said he did that on purpose to address a potential Defiance exploit?
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Blueeyed used falling damage ("Jingle Jet 'accidents'") in his test and got increased damage.
My tests were done on Test and used a lvl 50 Blaster and some RAM Series I robots. Blaster HP=1325.2 with the Freedom Phalanx Reserve Member accolade. Base HP=1204.8. Charged Bolts unslotted damage before Issue 5=55.60. Charged Bolts unslotted damage now=55.91.
With indicated HP=800.3 damage=60.19
With indicated HP=695.2 damage=63.59
With indicated HP=691.9 damage=63.59
With indicated HP=586.8 damage=69.50
With indicated HP=583.4 damage=69.50
With indicated HP=412.1 damage=89.83
I'll let you calculate yourself if you feel the desire. Results are similar th the results Blueeyed got.
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I thought Posi already posted somewhere that fall damage doesn't "count", so Defiance wouldn't have kicked-in for the scenario described by the OP. Defiance only works when the damage you've taken comes from actual combat, not from falling to 1 HP -- I believe Posi said he did that on purpose to address a potential Defiance exploit?
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I tested this too, by flying up as far as I can above a hotspot in SC and dropping down. My bar went up, and dove into the melee. then i remembered i was exempted out of nova... 
whoever posted earlier bout gettin in melee range attacking and not getting any defiance yet you are at under 50% well guess what...im not even a blaster and i know that if you attack it uses up defiance
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whoever posted earlier bout gettin in melee range attacking and not getting any defiance yet you are at under 50% well guess what...im not even a blaster and i know that if you attack it uses up defiance
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No it doesn't. Attacking doesn't use it up, getting health uses it up.
01001001 00100000 01101100 01101001 01101011 01100101 00100000 01110000 01101001 01100101
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whoever posted earlier bout gettin in melee range attacking and not getting any defiance yet you are at under 50% well guess what...im not even a blaster and i know that if you attack it uses up defiance
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I not sure I am following you correctly, but are you saying that by attacking when you are at any given level of defiance, you use up the amount of defiance you have? If that is what you're saying, I have to disagree, defiance doesn't get "used up", it slowly fades away, all the faster when your life bar starts to refill or if your healed at all I think goes away. But it's like ammo for higher damage. It is a scaling boost inversely based on hit points.
As to State's question, I do see a few problems with Defiance. It seems to kick in a little too late and there seems to be a pause or delay between taking the damage and getting the buff. Those two, in my experience, make defiance feel broken. As others have said, in PVP, it seems to work fine, but PVE has some issues.
And Holy Crap, I might add, a redname posted in the Blaster Forums. Figures the devs would send the Tank in first, only one who could take the alpha.
Edit: Valiant beat me to it.
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I thought Posi already posted somewhere that fall damage doesn't "count", so Defiance wouldn't have kicked-in for the scenario described by the OP. Defiance only works when the damage you've taken comes from actual combat, not from falling to 1 HP -- I believe Posi said he did that on purpose to address a potential Defiance exploit?
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Nope, I rolled 2 blasters during the holiday/winter event. Both ran around at 1 HP one shotting mobs and taking quick trips to the hospital till they hit level 10.
Currently roleplaying, badgehunting, and laughing at the PvPers of CoX. lol, PvP.
Truedusk - Human Rogue
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NO INCREASE IN DAMAGE AT ALL!!!!!
WHAT GIVES WITH DEFIANCE?
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Who knows why it didn't work for you in this 'test', but I do know it works. My blaster gets increased damage, and my husband was practically dancing for joy the other day when he died because just before biting the dust, he hit with full defiance bar and did over 1400 damage to his target. It was hilarious to hear him go on about it 
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ZOMG! Statesman actually posted in the Blaster forum! He did it! I guess they are reading our posts! *faints*
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Posts like this make me wish I had the resources to develop Keyboard TASERS. I'd sell it to the devs so they could just zorch the hell out of you as a reward.
I could be wrong so this is not gospel however this may explain the bugginess. When Defiance activates, where the health is, and when the attack activates can vary in priority.
A Health regeneration can cause the Defiance to be recalculated. What this does to the buff is not known by me or if it even matters.
If your attack goes off before the Defiance is applied you will not have signifigant dmg. While the Defiance bar is adjusted it may not be active. This is just a guess but could account for a few times when Defiance does not work. This might have some merit if Defiance does not work while the buff is adjusted but I can't say that not knowing anything about coding.
I have not had a lot of experience with Defiance myself because I either am hauling myself out of combat or dead. either way no attacks being measured.
(Virtue/Champion) Neil Fracas: Inv/SS
(Virtue) Gideon Fontaine: MA/SR (Sc), Generic Hero 114: Ice/Cold, Marcus Tyler AR/En, Project F: Spines/DA (S)
(Champion) Jenna Sidal BS/SD, Generic Hero 114: En/En (Bl), Loganne Claws/WP (Sc)
Numbers aside, Defiance simply lacks synergy.
The risk simply outweighs the reward.
It is counter-intuitive for a no-defense based Archtype and benifical to work against it.
It is undependable in a time of need.
Unlike other Inherents, it is less useful as level progresses and threat levels increase, further exaggerating the damage scaling problem of the Archtype from 1st to 50th level.
Good tactics and playing style render the Inherent power inert and inactive, thus granting no benifit or functionality.
It does not mesh well with the kind of attacks that could help garrentee elimination of the immediate threat. High end attacks like nukes (that apparently can be interupted if the blaster dies during the animation), or snipe attacks (same deal), or melee attacks which propel the blaster further into risk and danger than away from it.
And finally, The Kings of the Face-Plant need no further encouragement to promote such a bad habit.
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Simply put "Working as Intended" usually isn't synonymous with "working the way the players think"...
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Yet whenever something is working fine, it's wasn't "working as intended" and gets nerfed.
Funny how that works.
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"Working fine" to a player, as has been evidenced here and in other games, is rarely the same as "working correctly".
I mean...players thought that burn tankers powering through a field of +15 purples to PL people was "working fine". Sure...but it still wasn't right.
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What you don't get is "working as intended" and "not working as intended" have always been the phrases used as an excuse to leave something alone or to nerf it.
The community would have more respect for the Devs if they just came out and said,
"When we added this, X power had to be adjusted because of this, this and that"
or
"Due to player ability to exploit/PL/whatever, we've had to adjust X power"
instead of saying
"It was never working as intended"