Avast ye! Issue 5 is like a sea filled o flotsam and jetsam. It makes a scruvy old dog like me wince as I walk around on my peg leg.
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[I'm totally amazed by States' post; even a glance at the forums shows people are all but happy with I5. And does someone have a link to that "great feedback" he mentions?
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I think he meant "great" as in the amount of feedback as opposed to the "I5 is great!!" posts. Then again, he may think that all feedback on a topic is great (or wonderful) since it lets him know what the players that use the forums think, good or bad, about changes to the game.
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[I'm totally amazed by States' post; even a glance at the forums shows people are all but happy with I5. And does someone have a link to that "great feedback" he mentions?
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I think he meant "great" as in the amount of feedback as opposed to the "I5 is great!!" posts. Then again, he may think that all feedback on a topic is great (or wonderful) since it lets him know what the players that use the forums think, good or bad, about changes to the game.
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Could be; he has a funny way of showing his appreciation though. Totally ignoring all the major issues brought up in the dev response threads wasn't the way to go.
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For as many changes throughout the game to gimp Burn and PLing have been excessive, but perhaps necessary. The reduction of defense on the heroes was going too far, all the while continuing to keep the villains (our opposition) at peak efficiency in the name of challenge and fun, are disappointing.
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I'm very glad you see that the changes to stop PLing were indeed needed, you are the minority on these boards it seems. But if you take a look at the update, all Lt's and bosses took and acc hit, this has been proven very good for alot people that play "squishies", and now minions no longer seem like cannon fodder for the big guys and bosses fo the various gangs in Paragon, though they're still fairly dumb and easy to kill. I liked I5, but I've only been around since just after I3 and haven't been through all the changes the more seasoned heroes have. But the difference in fun is astounding, teamwork feels like teamwork, a victory is truly earned sometimes, and with the xp changes I truly am lvl faster than ever. I know that alot of awesome players are leaving and I wish them luck and their absence will surely be felt. But for those of us sticking it out, the fun has really just started, think of this a flu vaccine, you get a pin [censored] and it hurts, and for a sec you'll be a little weak, but after a few days you're better than ever. Good luck to all departing gamers and good luck to all the staying heroes.
"If all the world's a stage, I want to operate the trap door." --Paul Beatty
Altaholic since '05, 0 months sober
Issue 5 is an interesting peace of work. The changes to missions are interested and can lead to fun. However the changes to the powers are disheartening and often lead to debt. It is really such a shame that some of the creative talent that goes into mission and zone design cannot be used to balance powers. I am currently playing defenders and now I cannot solo missions if I can't find a team. I could before Issue 5 and what makes me wonder is why I can't now because defenders weren't touched much. I have to wait until I outlevel my missions because I can handle them solo on Heroic. That isn't my idea of fun.
Multiple times alternatives are posted that would achieve the same things the developers are striving for without constantly reducing powers. They are hardly ever even acknowledged or looked at. Once a course of action is decided upon, then nothing else matters. Is listening to and responding to your customers that difficult? You seem to be able to talk about your conference trips, contests and the like enough but you can't get patch notes to NCSoft in time for a timely update? You don't give power information to the customers and yet you say "No uninformed decision".
There is a suggestion and feedback forum here, it would be nice if you used it more often and implemented some of the very good ideas in there. It would be nice if there was a quality of life patch which fixed the almost 200 known issues listed in the Training Room forum. Cryptic obviously has a vision for this game that is spectacular. It would be nice if the implementation was more rounded.
I'd like to say that as a person with Altitis, I5 is a mixed bag for me.
On the one hand, starting a new blaster (sonic/devices) was more fun then ever, as I'm able to truly solo ... when times got tough, my damage got tougher!
My defenders seem largely unchanged, save for the fact that people are more actively seeking them to a certain extent.
My controller made out like a bandit ... if she zaps them once, they may as well never wake up. Soloing is a breeze if I can get that initial hit ...
On the down side ...
Sonics seem too powerful, and IMO, outstrip other sets. Trick Arrows should be a Blaster secondary as well as a Defender primary ... Confinement is too powerful and Defiance is getting less and less useful as I rise in levels ...
my tanks ... my primary toon ... she's all but dead to me ... I've lamented her enough in the Tankers forum, but ...
The one shining example of a "comic-book brought to electronic life" in this game was the Tanker. And with INV gutted and left a skeleton of its former self ... I'm not sure that I5 was worth it, overall.
There was no increase, to me, in "challenge," other than having to rely on others. A game that forces me to do things a certain way is a poor game. Having to defeat Ken Oh in Shinobi by slapping him in the face is inventive, but silly. In a game where possibilities are so much greater, there should be more to it then "Get a healer, get a troller," or "we need one of everyone for a fight"
I5 was great for squishies, OK for content ... horrible for tankers, though, and proof positive that we're moving away from "Build as you like" to "Build as we say." IMO
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just because I can, I'm going to point out that they are going to have another update within a month because of the release of City of Villans. Thus we may get some of the problems addressed then.
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Had not thought about that. God I hope so!
I'll assume you're reading this thread, States. Let me sum up what I think of I5.
Namely, the nature of the game has changed.
Just looking at the game itself, that could be a good thing. I personally disagree with the direction you chose to take, but I can see where it might have been the smart thing to do for the game's long-term longevity.
But from the standpoint of long-time players, I5 is just plain bad. We have to learn new ways of doing the same old things. If there were new content to lure us in, the new challenges would be exciting. But there isn't. So it's a letdown, forcing us to relearn the game without being rewarded for it. It would be easier and more fun to go play another game.
For content, Croatoa is not enough. Long-time players generally either have alts in their teens or level 50s. It will take most people a month or more to get to the Croatoa content with new characters. A month of relearning the game with no new rewards.
I hope that now, you focus on generating new things for us to enjoy and stop 'rebalancing' for a while.
...
New Webcomic -- Genocide Man
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
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I5 how do I start this but by saying that I feel that u took the wrong on this one guys I know u wanted balance in the game but why make the Hero s weaker to make that balance work there where other ways to do that and u took the easy way out. You could have made the bad guys harder more powerful and ure balance would have been met and if this is all about PvP(we both know that it is 
) why not just make the powers hurt other sets differently I a fan of comics have been all my life and I ve read alot that pit s Hero v Hero and when this happens both the Hero s are at there best and have there full strength and the fight is great 
now take what uve done to the Hero s in this game and put it in the battles in the comics and u would loose a lot of readers. For example put Wolverine (in this game a regin claw scrapper) v the Hulk (a invul tanker with super strength) now this is probl a joke fight right we all know that Logan will not beat the Hulk but it a nice thought if ure a fan of Logan but the way u have the powers set now he would not even get the thought it would just be fact with no if and or but about it how fun would that be uve take the joy of "what if" away from the player; we as player have spent hours and hours of our lives play this game and I been here since I2 so I know Ive clocked alot of time in on this game and for the most part I luv every min of it but being a Hero now after I5 is not as fun as it was in I4. I had a regen Scrapper and now I have a ninja who can heal a little bit ( oh BTW that hole thing about making IH a click thing sux in a AV fight with Aoe hiting u u die fast with a heal there) without the touch and weave on my D I would not use my toon at all uve made him a close up blaster I know I ve test it on the server and even with the T&W I still die faster then I did in I4 when I had Instant healing as a toggle I know u thought it was too powerful I think ure crazy but if that what u think fine but it was not too powerful it had it weakness it took a lot of end to use it and that was fine I still died when I had it I still got debt but I new where I stood and how I felt when it was a toggle I was a Hero now Im just a ninja who die alot more and now Im just a player who s not have as much fun as I did when I started this MMO. I know their is no one who will answer this but I write it to get it off my chest (meaning Dev) it just the way I feel about the changes that I5 brought don t get me wrong not all the changes where bad u made some good ones and as a player I thank u for them but I would like u to take a long look at changes u made to the AT and when ure done take a look at the Hero s u grew up with and see if u would feel the same about them if someone done what uve done to ours 
thank u for ure time...
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I wonder if there was a point in there somewhere.
Im actually enjoying I5. I love it with my Grav/Kin controller, its more like playing a blaster with a few holds thrown in.
Im really enjoying the combo of my Emp/Dark Def with my wife's Fire/Fire tank. We actually have to work as a team to position mobs for me to lock down and her to burn but with a little respec on my behalf and some tactic changes the game is way more fun than before. Thanks for the new challenge.
removed
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Im actually enjoying I5. I love it with my Grav/Kin controller, its more like playing a blaster with a few holds thrown in.
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And this is exactly what I don't like about I5. If I wanted to play a Blaster I would have chosen a Blaster...not a Controller.
They introduced Gauntlet so Tankers wouldn't be taunt-bots anymore. With I5 the changes made my Controller a single-target-hold-bot who works at a mere fraction of his previous power but now does damage...woohoo.
And all this because States' played a powerlevelled Controller for 2 weeks and thought it was fun. He never levelled a Controller from 1 to 50 the hard way and had 75% his power taken away.
Right now the problem is that this game was origionally designed to be a team game. with the advent of PVP within the same side people started complaining that the various AT's were too powerful... in their team role they were too powerful... Hmmmmmmmmmmm A guy who does his role too well?
Never heard of such a thing. ultimatly ignore PVP's complaints and go back and make this the old team game that it was... And for all I know you don't understand me because your korean? 
By the catapillars hooka you WILL smile!
Wow. Just... wow...
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First, a big thank you to everyone who played on the Training Room server and helped I5 to be one of our best launches ever! Were extremely happy about how I5 went live.
Second, were still scouring the boards for bugs and other issues, but weve finished making large changes to the power sets. Well still be looking at issues as the arise. For instance, there are issues with Defense builds; were going to look at that problem more carefully (the Damage Resistance Inspirations are a step, but there's a little more to come).
Thanks for all your great feedback!
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bolded for emphisis
oh reeeeeeealy?
Soi gues Enervating Field, Stealth, Phase Shift, Quantum Flight, Nebulos Form, uh i miss any?
Arent power sets.
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No, those individual powers do not constitute powersets. However, when you change a power within a powerset (this would by simple extension include power pools and inherents) you change the set.
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I gues LYING about reducing EF,even goign so far as to pot inthe past notes "changes to EF shave been coming in since I2, still not true" your own words, not mine. the stating in the "missing patch notes" "EF change to be brough in line with similar powers cause it was over powered, done at the begining of I5" again your own words isnt a Change toa power set?
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You put it in quotes, yet I highly doubt those are his own words simply because I've never seen any of the developers use such atrocious spelling or grammar. That would be misquoting.
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i guess reducing the STEATH AND DEFENSE component of STEALTH and makingit non STACKABLE dont count as changes?
making phase, QF and NF timed toggles that shut off or increase their end cost affet X seconds dont count as changes?
REAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLY that interesting, you know in the legan system saying one thing in print that a complete and total lie is called libal. And while it is often used in the terms of defimation of character the essense emains the same.
You need to have somoen approve your posts Jack because what your saying is a direct contrdiction to what your doing.
and thats
Simple
As
Fact
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You know, I'm often not one for direct flaming but what the deuce are you smoking?
Simple concept. Unless you want something in legalese you often have to say things in such a way that reading comprehension will fill in the gaps.
So when an individual power is changed, and that power is part of a powerset... it's a very simple step to say that the powerset has been changed.
When something is said in print *about a person* that is a direct and intentionally malicious in nature it is libel. When someone lies it's dishonest but far from illegal.
Additionally, I'd rather have a human being posting on the boards, unfiltered and making mistakes, than a corporate entity posting only filtered stuff. Yeah, mistakes and miscommunications happen but at least when this happens it's a human element in an already de-humanized environment.
-----------------
As for the I5 changes... Some hurt, but some were sorely needed. I list Force Fields and Tanks (with the exception of Ice Tanks) as having need of toning down. Force Fields through experience and Tanks through inference.
The big three in FF were too powerful, from a balance perspective. When I'm on a team it's like switching the game to cheat codes. Honest and true. The only enemies I *ever* had a problem with was the rularuu and auto-hitters (Envoy of Shadows in particular). What hurt about FF is that the situational nature of every power outside of the big three and over-reliance on knockback. I can't think of any powerset in which the great body of people who have used it for any extended amount of time don't see the overwhelming advantage to investing heavily in the primary set. Honestly, I'd like to see the decision to take or not take powers become tougher.
And for tanks... this is something of a strange one for me. I've always seen them as overpowered. They were the only class in the game in which there was never really any desire to have more than one on the team. One tank could usually handle the agro for multiple 8-man spawns. Any more than one tank and things were usually so easy that the rest of the team could toss the occasional buff and let the blasters and tanks and scrappers mop everything up.
Any class that has a 90% resistance to the most common forms of damage *and* a way to avoid getting hit at all is quite simply overpowered. Yeah, you may have felt super. This is all well and good... but it was far too easy. It's like playing on cheat mode.
Any class that can herd and take down an entire 8-man spawn at the level cap and on the highest difficulty setting needs serious looking at and rebalancing. Sometimes it's hard to objectively look at something you have such an emotional investment in. And it is quite hard to see your character brought down to the level where they're only *sometimes* the star of the show instead of being the star and sole actor, for the most part.
Now we're at a point when the tank can't hold agro with ease for the entire team. When the team has to support the tank and the tank has to support the team. So far all the tanks I've regularly grouped with have adapted to the new situation. They're thriving. The basic difference is that they simply looked at the new environment, adopted new tactics that were more appropriate to the situations, and are now thriving like ever before. Just not quite as show-stopping.
The tanks I've grouped with that have been having trouble are universally attempting to force their old tactics to work in new situations. These are also the ones that I've noticed complained more about I5 than anyone else. Lots of people are now using multiple tactics instead of the simple (and boring for me) tactic of buff tank, tank goes in, wait for mission complete.
One change that I'd like to see for tanks that would likely make their jobs a whole lot easier would be to allow Gauntlet to be slotted for Taunt Duration.
As it stands, though, people are still able to do their jobs. In group environments, though, they just need to adopt different tactics and actually work together. You know, be a group.
You wouldn't by any chance give me an Archtype respec, would you? If I am to be a crappy Scrapper instead of a Tank, might as well just be a Scrapper. Either that or retweak how aggro control works Tankers. Also, the option for more Respecs would be a nice change of pace. Would show that you at least listen to us occasionally now.
I do NOT look forward to I6.
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
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First, a big thank you to everyone who played on the Training Room server and helped I5 to be one of our best launches ever! Were extremely happy about how I5 went live.
Second, were still scouring the boards for bugs and other issues, but weve finished making large changes to the power sets. Well still be looking at issues as the arise. For instance, there are issues with Defense builds; were going to look at that problem more carefully (the Damage Resistance Inspirations are a step, but there's a little more to come).
Thanks for all your great feedback!
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MY SG's answer to this nerffest was to create an all defender and all controller team. Guess what, both AT's are so effective on large teams that bosses drop like minions and minions are all dead before half the debuffs are on. We don't mind, we adapted and found the next thing that made us feel uber.
We'd play our 50's but it's just too much at times to deal with any of the invulns complaining about how crappy they are now. They don't die nearly as much as you would expect given all the pissing and moaning they do, but I their AT isn't at all like they wanted it to be when picking the powers in the 1st place. Kind of like when I made a controller and now he's a blastroller with a third of the pets. I don't mind, it's just different.
I think better response from you and the devs would have made this a lot better and would have removed some of the griping and whining. We gave two tons of info about this stuff on Test and didn't get a ton of response about it. I know you're busy but getting some extra response would be nice, perhaps explaining why you are changing something beyond the "this didn't feel right" argument. Just come out as say stuff like, Invuln was like rolling up a god and despite several nerfs it was just something that was too powerful and didn't offer any chance of getting defeated in the normal game or in the arena. Or Regen, despite several nerfs it was just something that was too powerful and didn't offer any chance of getting defeated in the normal game or in the arena.
Croatoa, I'll outlevel it before my contacts give me a contact there probably. Why did you make this almost the same levels as Striga I'll never understand. We want to play it but the majority of the SG can't get the initial contacts and almost all our defender team is 25.
Anyway, don't pat yourself on the back, the majority of folks DON'T like this issue or just don't care. I'm in the dont care catagory. I took a hit on every toon, and rolled up a new one so I could be uber again. You keep nerfing, we'll keep finding a way around it.
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And this is exactly what I don't like about I5. If I wanted to play a Blaster I would have chosen a Blaster...not a Controller.
They introduced Gauntlet so Tankers wouldn't be taunt-bots anymore. With I5 the changes made my Controller a single-target-hold-bot who works at a mere fraction of his previous power but now does damage...woohoo.
And all this because States' played a powerlevelled Controller for 2 weeks and thought it was fun. He never levelled a Controller from 1 to 50 the hard way and had 75% his power taken away.
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Amen !! I agree Beldaran.
They basically took all my fun control powers and turned them into mere shadows of themselves. I HATE casting Ice SLick now....things are still immune to it, it still has it's draw backs to it....but now I have to keep watching my bar because it drops so fast I gotta use another one.
Slicks were fun, they weren't overly powerful and things could walk through and still fire on ya. It got really tough ? Throw two down and create a barrier around your team...you don't have to worry about melee damage, just range.
I worked my controller up from about a month into release (played beta, finally found my controller a month after release.) I worked through the no damage. I soloed alot after my SG started desolving in the summer-- I punched, Freezing Rained, and Block of Iced mobs to death...including Orange and Red bosses (sometimes I had multiple Orange bosses, those were FUN to walk away from solo...tactics extreme.) SURE, they took tactics to win...but I did.
When I finally grew into my powers....got Glacier at 26, Jack Frost...and all my other powers, I had really grown. I would say Controllers were the most powerful classes before I5-- that was due to our control....combined with our small damage...but we could stop the Sappers before we were Sapped. We could hold the Psions before we were brain scrammbled.
Now, we do twice the damage. And my control is annoying. You know what I do on teams now ? I had a SS TF, where they are VERY resistant to control.....I opened with AE Immob, Shiver....Jack ran in and I blasted.
That's the extent of my control now. I hate throwing down Ice SLick, cause you can't AE immob (or they will be immune to knockdown) and I don't get my double damage. So, I don't use my control...I just blast.
The controllers were taken in the wrong direction....you used to have to work through alot to earn the most powerful character in the game. Now, with double damage, it's handed to you....and taking away all those pets didn't matter....as an Ice/Storm/Ice controller that had 2 Jacks out at once....I NOW do more damage with my Containment and Ice Bolt and One Jack Frost...than I did before.
We are still the most powerful, until we start grouping and the number of baddies increase....then I feel like a weak blaster. My holds are not as powerful...however, with 29 Hammi-Os I found out my Ice Controller was better off than the Average Joe.
I've been playing my Grav/FF controller....and I feel ABSOLUTELY USELESS when the crap hits the fan. I respeced his powers last night....you'll NEVER believe what I did: I needed Tactics now (thanks ACC nerf in Invincible missions!!) and decided to get Dmg and ACC in tactics. I had to lose two powers. PLUS, to offset the horrible recasts, I needed Hasten, another power gone.
I dropped BOTH AE Hold and Wormhole. At level 28, they are worthless. It took them SO long to come back and literally held for 10 seconds or so. It was bad. Instead I picked up Tactics: ACC and Damage. Then Hasten MUCH MUCH earlier than planned (still hadn't gotten it).....took tactics to offset the ACC problems now....and took Stamina earlier so it's 6 slotted by 28 (I usually only pick up STA at 26.) ....I had to lose a 3rd power, so I lost Dispersion Field-- I know I won't be grouping as much, so I don't need it. I'll carry more Breakfrees *shrugs*
The net result ? I had to pick a ton of powers I didn't want to fix my controller....fix ? I mean, to HELP him. We mostly all take: Hasten, Swift/Hurdle, Health, and Stamina....now add to the list for me, Tactics: ACC and DMG. And make sure you all have them in before level 22 or 24 so you can make your powers effective....
I respeced out the AE hold and Wormhole because they were worthless without the pre-req powers that I5 nerfed them for. In the next few levels I MIGHT pick them up again, I dunno...the duration was horrible....might pick up other things instead.
NEVER thought I'd say that about a controller.
The new controller feels MORE powerful solo and MUCH LESS powerful in groups. I really don't know what else to say.....
Served Cold: 50 Ice/Storm/Ice
Gravaforce: 28 Grav/FF
Level 53: Arrows/Devices/Munitions Blaster
....and hopeless Science-Natzi.
my thoughts on i5...
i5 IS good. i like it. BUT there are still a lot of work to be done in regards to balancing ATs.
i feel my DM/invuln scrapper was gutted. i tested it, made a thread, posted my initial results, respec'd on test, posted my results again. the problem is that i did not reach my S/L cap for i5... but now that i5 has went live, i am finding that the nerf to my Resist Elements and Resist Energies is subpar and utterly useless.
now a Dark Armor scrapper has better resists than an invuln scrapper... per Buffy's excellent guide. please note that there is an "infinite" revision further down the thread.
Dark Armor
Elemental Fire and Cold in Issue 5:
MC (6 SO DamRes) - Total 49.5%
MC (5 SO DamRes) - Total 45%
Elemental Toxic in Issue 5:
DE (6 SO DamRes) - Total 33%
DE (5 SO DamRes) - Total 30%
Energies Energy in Issue 5:
MC (6 SO DamRes) - Total 33%
MC (5 SO DamRes) - Total 30%
Energies Negative Energy in Issue 5:
DE (6 SO DamRes), MC (6 SO DamRes) - Total 66%
DE (5 SO DamRes), MC (5 SO DamRes) - Total 60%
Invuln
Elemental (fire, cold and toxic), and Energies (energy and negative energy) in Issue 5:
Unyielding (6 SO DamRes), REl (6 SO DamRes) and REn (6 SO DamRes) - Total 28.875%
Unyielding (5 SO DamRes), REl (6 SO DamRes) and REn (6 SO DamRes) - Total 27.375%
how did this happen? why is a set built on resistance is now dependent on defense? invuln tankers took a hit, invuln scrappers... well.
my suggestions -
give SR two damage resist powers one for S/L and one for energies.
give Regen one damage resist both S/L and energies.
cap invincibility at 3-5 enemies or just take the defense out. put the resist back into invuln!
cap SR at 35% for S/L and 25% for Energies and Regen between 10-25% for both S/L and Energies. this will give them the option to pick up tough to come close to the cap at 75% S/L for atleast SR. i am not a numbers guy but that would be a starting point towards balancing because it is painfully obvious that the game is based on dealing damage and taking damage.
give ice tankers 1 or 2 damage resist powers. one S/L and one energy.
this way you really dont need damage resist insp!!! well it might be too late for an overhaul like that. i just think it would be easier to re-construct these powers instead of balancing defence and resist damage.
burn took too harsh a penalty, because the recharge time was increased i am vulnerable to immobilization should if it is still recharging while other tankers have protection to immobil constantly. don't have any viable suggestions, please look into that.
AoE holds hurt, but i'll make do.
i am still having fun. i know that my suggestions wont be implemented. i can understand that there are things going on behind the scenes that goes beyond me...
if anything else i leave you all with this -
if someone was to take a sample (statistics point of view) of the forums and even though the forums are viewed as a very small percentage of the entire CoH community our "voice" would be representive of the whole CoH community.
Just to get this out of the way, I am not trolling. I have 2 simple questions, thats it. I have searched the forums and have not found answers to my questions specifically. That is why I am here asking now. I love CoH and have no issues with it. I will not bump this post if it's ignored.
1. I noticed CoV is said to be a stand alone game, yet if CoH users want the option to build a base, they need to purchase CoV first.
Question: Is it not considered an expansion when a game affects another directly in the way CoV will be affecting CoH in this base building matter?
2. Consider that some CoH users do not want to be villains. Consider how many issue releases did not include a base building feature in CoH for loyal CoH users.
Question: Why make this unique base building feature (which seems the be the only thing new to CoH users besides being a villian and the content that follows), available to CoH users only thru buying CoV and maybe paying an extra monthly fee?
This is not complaints, just ?'s. I am a loyal customer. I love CoH. It's a great game and the people I have encountered have been wonderful. I needed some clarity on this issue because I am confused. SH = no base, villain = base. I hope an honest answer is posted by Statesman. Thanks for your time
I5 - As a whole, I hate it. There are some positives, but the negatives strongly out weigh them. Many characters no longer play like they did/should. I've deleted my scrapper (lvl 35), Tank (lvl 16), and one controller (lvl 34) rather than deal with their pitiful existance. I am currently fighting to find a reason to continue playing my other controller (lvl 40 ice/ff). He now solo's so slowly as to be boring and in a group, he's totally not needed/useful. I won't even start on my FF defender who has basically been relegated to solo'ing or grouping based on the pity of the very few friends left playing CoH.
I didn't know where to post this but this seemed the best spot. Its not a bug but it was a fix to adhere to previous situations which don't exist anymore and its what I think could be done to help those poor Inv Tanks(inc. mine). Now my tank isn't unplayable.. just unhelpful per say. He can take dmg pretty good but not quite THAT good : ). And he can taunt good but not quite that good. Thing is his AoE Invincability was reduced to bring to par his resistance with other builds by making its defense lessened by Unyeilding Stance when they were used in conjunction. Now is this still necessary? Its defense is still way lower than it used to be but since you can't go into a mob of enemies without Unyeilding on does it need to be reduced anymore with the combination anymore. If so I would like to also add....
Can Invincability have a greater AoE Taunt than currently to help taunt. It would have a small duration but a high magnitute without any buffs to Taunt alllowed thus keeping agg on tank and allowing taunt to get the enemies off of teammates instead of being a rapid fire "they're scattering all over" hope they don't get too far away power. I think this wouldn't allow Herding as the mobs would lose interest if not in AoE range but the tank could still hold his Agg. And since we can't sacrifice acc enh's in attacks (at least I can't) for the sake of needing max resistance slots in power maybe give all tanks a +acc for enemies in melee range or make our powers all small AoE to better Punchvoke while reducing taunts recharge. Lotsa suggestions here. Please look at them, I can come up with more but running late for work cause had to powt this after playing my tank all morning as he just needs something to help him hold those darn mobs. I mean with an increased AoE range the only way a tank could herd that way with a slow recharge taunt is "SLOWLY" walking from mob to mob while the enemies in AoE range followed slowly so as not to lose any. It would be VERY difficult and not profitable and would make tanks Hold their agg perfectly. Would be a problem if a tank had to move position fast to get another mob though so maybe give it a 5 second taunt duration? that repeats and replaces the previous casted taunt every second. so that if you jump to 2 groups that (despite dev efforts) are almost right next to each other you won't lose the first group. So you could only hold more than one group if the groups are really close to each other. If the tank trys to run through a mission 5 secs will not hold the enemies. What do you think? And is this the right place to post this...
Gotta goto Work now. Please tell me what you all think.
Pinnacle Heroes: Ilconke lvl 50 En/En Blast, Pane lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank, Kimil'Lee Draco lvl 50 Ill/Kin Troller, Blackest Blackness lvl 38 DA/DM Tank, il lvl 35 PB
Pinnacle Villains: X lvl 50 Claw/Nin Stalker, Knumbskull lvl 42 Elec/Elec Brute, Metal Master lvl 35 Bot/Bub MM, X'ile lvl 32 Mind/Psi Dom
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And for tanks... this is something of a strange one for me. I've always seen them as overpowered. They were the only class in the game in which there was never really any desire to have more than one on the team. One tank could usually handle the agro for multiple 8-man spawns. Any more than one tank and things were usually so easy that the rest of the team could toss the occasional buff and let the blasters and tanks and scrappers mop everything up.
Any class that has a 90% resistance to the most common forms of damage *and* a way to avoid getting hit at all is quite simply overpowered. Yeah, you may have felt super. This is all well and good... but it was far too easy. It's like playing on cheat mode.
Any class that can herd and take down an entire 8-man spawn at the level cap and on the highest difficulty setting needs serious looking at and rebalancing. Sometimes it's hard to objectively look at something you have such an emotional investment in. And it is quite hard to see your character brought down to the level where they're only *sometimes* the star of the show instead of being the star and sole actor, for the most part.
Now we're at a point when the tank can't hold agro with ease for the entire team. When the team has to support the tank and the tank has to support the team. So far all the tanks I've regularly grouped with have adapted to the new situation. They're thriving. The basic difference is that they simply looked at the new environment, adopted new tactics that were more appropriate to the situations, and are now thriving like ever before. Just not quite as show-stopping.
The tanks I've grouped with that have been having trouble are universally attempting to force their old tactics to work in new situations. These are also the ones that I've noticed complained more about I5 than anyone else. Lots of people are now using multiple tactics instead of the simple (and boring for me) tactic of buff tank, tank goes in, wait for mission complete.
One change that I'd like to see for tanks that would likely make their jobs a whole lot easier would be to allow Gauntlet to be slotted for Taunt Duration.
As it stands, though, people are still able to do their jobs. In group environments, though, they just need to adopt different tactics and actually work together. You know, be a group.
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Have you considered what it is to be a post-40 Invul tank who wants to solo?
Have you read the plethora of posts in the Tanker forum agreeing that Invul needed to be toned down, but not [censored]?
Are you aware that Fire and Stone both have better non Smash/Lethal resistances than Invul?
Invulnerablility was designed originally as a Resistance based powerset. Now, once you get Invincibility, it becomes a Defense based powerset. This isn't a change of tactics. This is a destruction of concept. You cannot build a playable Invulnerability Tanker whose concept is to stand there and take damage for a team. Not after lvl 20. What's more, is that in order to maximize the defense bonus for Invincibility, you have to herd. Have to herd. Believe it or not, there are Tankers who don't like to herd!
I don't like to herd. I don't like PvP. I loved playing Tankers. I5 screwed me. I got the impression that you don't play Tanks. If you don't, then don't bother to tell me what you think my favorite AT needs. I get enough of that from Jack Emmert.
Lancelot Strong --
Level 50 Inv/SS Tanker on Triumph [Retired]
Tashkent Zen --
Level 25 Mind/Psi Dominator on Virtue
Hector Slade --
Level 34 SS/WP Brute on Virtue
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you know in the legan system saying one thing in print that a complete and total lie is called libal. And while it is often used in the terms of defimation of character the essense emains the same.
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That sounds you hear is me, a 1L, laughing his [censored] off at you.
he didn't even get the grammer correct, or spelling.
By the catapillars hooka you WILL smile!
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And for tanks... this is something of a strange one for me. I've always seen them as overpowered. They were the only class in the game in which there was never really any desire to have more than one on the team. One tank could usually handle the agro for multiple 8-man spawns. Any more than one tank and things were usually so easy that the rest of the team could toss the occasional buff and let the blasters and tanks and scrappers mop everything up.
Any class that has a 90% resistance to the most common forms of damage *and* a way to avoid getting hit at all is quite simply overpowered. Yeah, you may have felt super. This is all well and good... but it was far too easy. It's like playing on cheat mode.
Any class that can herd and take down an entire 8-man spawn at the level cap and on the highest difficulty setting needs serious looking at and rebalancing. Sometimes it's hard to objectively look at something you have such an emotional investment in. And it is quite hard to see your character brought down to the level where they're only *sometimes* the star of the show instead of being the star and sole actor, for the most part.
Now we're at a point when the tank can't hold agro with ease for the entire team. When the team has to support the tank and the tank has to support the team. So far all the tanks I've regularly grouped with have adapted to the new situation. They're thriving. The basic difference is that they simply looked at the new environment, adopted new tactics that were more appropriate to the situations, and are now thriving like ever before. Just not quite as show-stopping.
The tanks I've grouped with that have been having trouble are universally attempting to force their old tactics to work in new situations. These are also the ones that I've noticed complained more about I5 than anyone else. Lots of people are now using multiple tactics instead of the simple (and boring for me) tactic of buff tank, tank goes in, wait for mission complete.
One change that I'd like to see for tanks that would likely make their jobs a whole lot easier would be to allow Gauntlet to be slotted for Taunt Duration.
As it stands, though, people are still able to do their jobs. In group environments, though, they just need to adopt different tactics and actually work together. You know, be a group.
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Have you considered what it is to be a post-40 Invul tank who wants to solo?
Have you read the plethora of posts in the Tanker forum agreeing that Invul needed to be toned down, but not [censored]?
Are you aware that Fire and Stone both have better non Smash/Lethal resistances than Invul?
Invulnerablility was designed originally as a Resistance based powerset. Now, once you get Invincibility, it becomes a Defense based powerset. This isn't a change of tactics. This is a destruction of concept. You cannot build a playable Invulnerability Tanker whose concept is to stand there and take damage for a team. Not after lvl 20. What's more, is that in order to maximize the defense bonus for Invincibility, you have to herd. Have to herd. Believe it or not, there are Tankers who don't like to herd!
I don't like to herd. I don't like PvP. I loved playing Tankers. I5 screwed me. I got the impression that you don't play Tanks. If you don't, then don't bother to tell me what you think my favorite AT needs. I get enough of that from Jack Emmert.
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amen, the onlyherding i di in I4 was lets see
a room from of green to blue clock works
a hollows full of Greys
a Attal mission full of -6 to -3?
that un balacing?
my standard modus operandi was 14 mobs, i nice sizable grou that depeding the team was either 1 or 2 spawns.
That over powered?
And yet i can live with Invuln in I5 to a FAULT, the fault being it need to be BALLANCED, infuln has no special effect liek slow (ice), DOT (fire) status effect (stone) its just...
taking a pounding and dodging...
thats it
and for that we get elmental/energy reduced to 34%
i can live withthe 74% s/l but for a set based soly on takigna beating with no special effect Elenrgy and elements need to match up...
Either that or you need to give invuln SOMETHING special about it.
oh ya and fix Ice, i knwo they make good slusies when dead but ive had quite my fill of blue berry slusies from ice tanks.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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ive read about 90% negative and 10% that praise it. last night CoH was so empty i had no one in my global no one in my SG or coalation. and i have a ton. i have watched several good friends leave recently to play WoW. states has made it clear its his game. with in 2 years DC an Marvel will have there MMPOG out then we will see a game that really works like a buisness and not on a single minded vision that ignores the concerns of its paying customers.
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thats cause to jack their a math to responses
Negative / 9
positive x 12
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM