Statesman Speaks at Origins
By
87____,
Posted on: 2005-07-04 17:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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If you are forced to go to contacts then you will need to clear them ASAP. Sadly teams are built on a rather self centered basis. Most pick up groups have a leader that insist on only doing their own missions. Even if you team with friends who divide things fairly, chances are that the contact doesn't sell to you quick enough. You can gain XP suprisingly fast even from a halfway decent team.
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This is very very true.
I have a character I use purely on Tuesday nights with a group of mates who also have Tuesday-nights-only characters. It is hard enough trying to manage contacts so that those with non-power-10 requirements get their enhancements, let alone having to do it for a whole team.
Because we all have higher level characters we simply don't bother. We try and follow story lines instead. That is difficult enough!
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
Hmm... IF enhancements get turned into more of a drop-n-use sort of mechanism, this may in itself make the game a little more difficult as people will no longer have all their powers +2ed out at all levels. Instead, their powers will be a combination of -'s, equals, and +'s as well as the occasional red. This may do more to increase the overall difficulty on a very subtle measure than making bigger change to mobs or what have you.
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In other words: Statesman might hate the stores. But that doesn't mean Geko, Positron, Pohsyb, or another dev hasn't stepped up and smacked him for suggesting they remove them.
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*dreams of sneaking into that meeting*
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Yep, but that would mean you are prob. high 20 before friending with him (Long Jack I suppose). So any magic would already be slotted while natural and tech have to do all Long Jacks missions as well and as for science and mutation...
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He's the second contact in the Striga arc. If you start out your 20s with just those missions, you can get his enhancements around 21ish.
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Wow, you need a lot of defeats to accomplish that. With my latest character I entered Striga as soon as I hit 20. I have just finnished Pebbles mission and started on Long Jack and I am already 25.
Granted I do not solo (so I help with other missions as well) but that's meant to be (not an exeption).
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Yep, but that would mean you are prob. high 20 before friending with him (Long Jack I suppose). So any magic would already be slotted while natural and tech have to do all Long Jacks missions as well and as for science and mutation...
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He's the second contact in the Striga arc. If you start out your 20s with just those missions, you can get his enhancements around 21ish.
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Wow, you need a lot of defeats to accomplish that. With my latest character I entered Striga as soon as I hit 20. I have just finnished Pebbles mission and started on Long Jack and I am already 25.
Granted I do not solo (so I help with other missions as well) but that's meant to be (not an exeption).
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I got the second Striga Isle contact at lvl 21 (no debt) but the third makes you wait until you are 25.
This is a song about a super hero named Tony. Its called Tony's theme.
Jagged Reged: 23/01/04
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Stamina- So in other words, he's gonna leave the base system BROKEN and force some AT Builds to give up 3 power selections for Stamina just to be able to WORK? I guess not even CRITICAL issues get the attentions they needed let alone Quality of Life issues...
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Ahem...
YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA. The "requirement" of Stamina is simply in your head. The Necessity of Stamina has been greatly exagerated.
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Please remember this is YOUR opinion... please don't qualify it as a fact.
But I will quote Statesman :
Statesman - We expected Fitness to be a popular power in a popular power-pool, but the amount of builds that require it in order to function is more than we anticipated. We are looking into all solutions for Fitness and Endurance as a whole that won't dramatically alter the gameplay of most of our players.
Direct quote from : Stratics Interview for I5
Seems that the lead designer thinks that many builds require it to be "functional".
I think one thing Statesman is really going to have to consider if he goes to an all contact enhancement system is that there will be some balancing required. Take the 40+ game, for example: You get 5 contacts at 40, one for each group of villains you fight - Rikti, Malta, Carnies, Crey, and Portals/Random. If each of these represents a different origin, it's not entirely balanced. Malta are much more powerful than Crey, and probably one of the toughest groups to fight. If this contact becomes the ones that gives Natural enhancemens, you will see people start to say, "Don't pick Natural origin. It's a pain at later levels!" We already see this at early levels where one group is assigned Vahzilok, the toughest low level gang.
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Second, the "nerfs". My main, a 43 earth/storm/ice controller, solos invincible with little effort, but that is mainly because INV still spawns tiny groups. I can't tell you the number of times I've sat there looking at a group of 2 mobs, one orange and one red, wondering where the challenge would come from. I'd fix invincible by upping the spawn count (as of now the number of mobs is set at heroic level, just higher cons) and increasing the number of lts. and bosses.
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I'm one of those players that loves a challenge. The whole reason I do Unyielding missions over Invincible ones is because there are more mobs, and to me, that makes it more difficult (and more fun from a Controller's standpoint.)
Statesman seems to be very intent on making it so one hero equals three minions. Perhaps this works from 1 to 30, but maybe he needs to look at a different model when heroes start getting SOs and three minions are a minor annoyance. As it is, it would take a hell of a lot to make certain archetypes only as "powerful" as three minions.
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Yep, but that would mean you are prob. high 20 before friending with him (Long Jack I suppose). So any magic would already be slotted while natural and tech have to do all Long Jacks missions as well and as for science and mutation...
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He's the second contact in the Striga arc. If you start out your 20s with just those missions, you can get his enhancements around 21ish.
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Wow, you need a lot of defeats to accomplish that. With my latest character I entered Striga as soon as I hit 20. I have just finnished Pebbles mission and started on Long Jack and I am already 25.
Granted I do not solo (so I help with other missions as well) but that's meant to be (not an exeption).
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I got the second Striga Isle contact at lvl 21 (no debt) but the third makes you wait until you are 25.
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How did you accomplish that even soloing on heroic you should at least be 22...unless you stealthed missions that was not "kill all".
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You get 5 contacts at 40, one for each group of villains you fight - Rikti, Malta, Carnies, Crey, and Portals/Random.
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At 40, you immediately get contacts for Malta, Carnies, Crey, Portals, and Nemesis. After doing missions for one of your contacts, you then get the Rikti contact.
At 45, you get four contacts total.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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The Desperation idea sounds okay in theory, but I'd hate to be a defender teaming with the kind of blaster that yells at them for healing them when they want to do "mad phat damage" and then yells at them for letting them die when the blaster takes too much heat.
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What I find curious is that this same concept was originally supposed to be implemented for tankers awhile back.
[url="http://tinyurl.com/4ylgy"]The Wanderers[/url] of Virtue
We farm fun!
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If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.
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And this my friends, is my problems with "nerfs" in a nut shell. Yeah sure, SOMETIMES something really IS out of wack and needs fixed, but 9 times out of 10, nerfs happen because a few people learn how to beat the system, and the rest of us "normal" gamers are the ones that end up paying for it. I can't DO what tankers on these boards brag about. I can't herd whole maps... i can't solo AV's. (I have a hard team beliving this one personally..) I can't tank 50 +7's, at all, let alone go cook dinner while i do it. But apperently people here brag they can, the dev's belive them, and nerf us ALL as a resualt. Ah well... at least my tank hit 50, and i hae my memerories of being a "super" hero... seeing as how Statesmen's plan for 50's basically involves rerolling... I'll guess i'll give that a shot... Can you at least tell me, Mr. Statesmen, who you aren't going to nerf anytime soon... so i can give them a shot.... You've said Defender are where you like them... but i've heard that before about... tanks... scrappers.... hammi o's.....
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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I dunno. The stores gives a sense of a city. That business if being transacted there. Removing the stores... well, I supose you could put some NPC contacts there, just like the ones in Bricks and Founders, but people already have a heck of a time finding those guys... why confuse them in the 20s?
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I agree. I like the way each of the stores looks different for each origin. I especially like the magic stores with their awesome artwork. Perhaps they could keep them and add more contacts with DO/SO's
Currently Playing:
Frozen Kat - Ice/Ice Blaster (Triumph)
Flaming Kat - Fire/Fire Blaster (Triumph)
"Alright, heres the plan. The tank and scrapper are going to get Diabolique's aggro. The Defender is gonna debuff her. Blasters I want you to jump off that building then come in and alpha strike her. Got it? Alright lets go"
What is it about developers ( GMs in pen and paper games too ) that they want us to play a game the way THEY want it played? Why can't we play it our way? This is becoming more and more like EQ with every passing comment I read that Statesman makes. He might be passionate about the game, but I think he needs to get his finger on our pulse.
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"Alright, heres the plan. The tank and scrapper are going to get Diabolique's aggro. The Defender is gonna debuff her. Blasters I want you to jump off that building then come in and alpha strike her. Got it? Alright lets go"
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*cracks up* Thank you for my laugh of hte afternoon.
Anyway, I do hope that there isn't any change in the stores, at least not without a drastic revamp of how drops and contact buying/selling works.
As for 'Desperation', it sounds like a really interesting system. I'd like to see more on its technical aspects before making any judgments. It's nice that they're adding in these kind of inherent differences in the ATs.
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If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.
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And this my friends, is my problems with "nerfs" in a nut shell. Yeah sure, SOMETIMES something really IS out of wack and needs fixed, but 9 times out of 10, nerfs happen because a few people learn how to beat the system, and the rest of us "normal" gamers are the ones that end up paying for it. I can't DO what tankers on these boards brag about. I can't herd whole maps... i can't solo AV's. (I have a hard team beliving this one personally..) I can't tank 50 +7's, at all, let alone go cook dinner while i do it. But apperently people here brag they can, the dev's belive them, and nerf us ALL as a resualt. Ah well... at least my tank hit 50, and i hae my memerories of being a "super" hero... seeing as how Statesmen's plan for 50's basically involves rerolling... I'll guess i'll give that a shot... Can you at least tell me, Mr. Statesmen, who you aren't going to nerf anytime soon... so i can give them a shot.... You've said Defender are where you like them... but i've heard that before about... tanks... scrappers.... hammi o's.....
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Strangely, one of the "Tanker" nerfs didn't affect casual players in the *slightest* because they weren't hitting the 90% resistance cap that they added.
Changes can only affect the power levelers/min-maxers. Say they add code to mobs that after you get 30+ mobs within 30' of each other they debuffed defense and resistance around them? How does that affect people that don' herd?
Very little, as if they are getting more than 30+ mobs, they were probably going to die anyways, where as the min-maxers were not even ruffled before, and now they have run into a hard limit that they won't be able to supercede.
Still here, even after all this time!
Wait, does this mean we will be eventually getting the *cough* "Toy" Bat and Fake Vomit temp powers?
I mainly want the *cough* "Toy" Bat one.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
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What is it about developers ( GMs in pen and paper games too ) that they want us to play a game the way THEY want it played? Why can't we play it our way? This is becoming more and more like EQ with every passing comment I read that Statesman makes. He might be passionate about the game, but I think he needs to get his finger on our pulse.
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This is a simplistic outlook. Developers are gamers too. From what I've heard, many of them do play the game.
And who do you cater to? The people that *want* the game to be EQ in tights? The Counterstrike people that don't want anything other than combat?
It's their game and they have their vision. The game does not fit everyone.
Nor should it. If there was only one perfect game, life would be very boring.
Still here, even after all this time!
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If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.
[/ QUOTE ]
And this my friends, is my problems with "nerfs" in a nut shell. Yeah sure, SOMETIMES something really IS out of wack and needs fixed, but 9 times out of 10, nerfs happen because a few people learn how to beat the system, and the rest of us "normal" gamers are the ones that end up paying for it. I can't DO what tankers on these boards brag about. I can't herd whole maps... i can't solo AV's. (I have a hard team beliving this one personally..) I can't tank 50 +7's, at all, let alone go cook dinner while i do it. But apperently people here brag they can, the dev's belive them, and nerf us ALL as a resualt. Ah well... at least my tank hit 50, and i hae my memerories of being a "super" hero... seeing as how Statesmen's plan for 50's basically involves rerolling... I'll guess i'll give that a shot... Can you at least tell me, Mr. Statesmen, who you aren't going to nerf anytime soon... so i can give them a shot.... You've said Defender are where you like them... but i've heard that before about... tanks... scrappers.... hammi o's.....
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Yes, I agree. I cannot do what the "uber" players do either and when a 'nerf' hits players like us, it is swinging too low.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
You're right, caps are a sort of nerf that only affects the min/maxers and leaves the rest alone. That's what many people were asking for in the last round of regen nerfs, a cap on regenneration.
Instead, the key regen powers got nerfed.
I'd be happy if the devs go the route you're talking, but I have my doubts.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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It's fun to kill Frostfire 15 times while doing your main character, then starting over again with BRAND NEW powers and killing Frostfire another random 17 times.
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This amuses me because I think in terms of killing Dr. Vahzilok 17 times, and Frostfire is a new thing to do.
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Same here -- I spent the past 2 or 3 weeks leveling 3 characters (scrapper on Virtue, dark defender on Infinity, controller on Champion) up to 15 or so doing Hollows missions, after avoiding the Hollows completely for all of Issue 2 and 3 because of the bugs and the guys stuck under the stairs who killed me SO many times when the zone debuted.
Defeated Frostfire at least 15 times, yep. Defeated Atta almost as many. Did the Igneous defeat all three or four times. Lots of freeing of slaves from Trolls and hunting of Outcasts. One successful smooth Cavern of Transcendence trial. Met tons of new players and returning-for-the-free-two-weeks-after-getting-tired-of-WOW players. Made many friends!
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Developers are gamers too. From what I've heard, many of them do play the game.
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But what kind of players are they? With inside information and such, they would mop up the floor with someone like me.
I realize it is hard to do, but they need to be careful they dont end up causing the casual players to be unable to play in order to stop the power gamers.
I just want to be able to have some fun and arrest some villains. Is that too much to ask? (This would be funny if I could get Jon Lovitz to say this in his Harvey ? voice.)
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
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Here's the thing, though:
Statesman only said the stores in Talos and IP.
Either he just listed Talos and IP as examples, or he means that those stores in the Talos and IP are the only stores he wants to see gone. It's no surprise that those cater to the level 20-30 crowd: a crowd that already has contacts in Striga and (I'd assume) Croatoa that sell enhancements.
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I'm fairly sure the contacts in Striga only sell Natural and Tech enhancements. They might sell Science as well, I'd have to check to be sure. With the nature of the beasties in Croatoa I'd assume the contacts there would sell Magic enhancements. This would limit players being able to buy unless they were one of those origins.
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Maybe he just wants to see people cut back on going all the way back to Talos to sell. It could be a change as simple as that. That he's been teaming with too many high level heroes on whatever server he plays on that keep holding up his pick-up group because they have to go back to Talos to sell.
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Hehe. This would the all time bad reason for a change in the stores. I understand though, it is aggravating to be on team that wants to sell every ten minutes.
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Either way, the levels this would directly affect are levels that have multiple contacts that sell all enhancements. The stores don't sell anything other than Power 10 SOs, so it wouldn't be that big a loss if they were removed and would mean more people would have to sell at Ghost Falcon and the SO contacts.
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If we assume, and that's all we should do until States himself says for sure, that he meant the stores in Talos and IP, and I'm guessing he meant the Origin stores, this would effect the 20s more than anyone. Even though the stores sell only Power 10s, they still are a great help to newish heroes that might not have contacts worked up.
Thinking on this some more I've come to think that this issue stems from States not liking that players are filling up on SOs as soon as they hit 22. I understand why he doesn't like that, it's quite a power shift. But I think he also knows that there isn't much to be done about it, much like Stamina, without hurting the casual players.
That's who I'm worried about. For myself it's no big deal. I'm a powergaming min/maxer, I, or another will find a way to deal with it and move on. Sure I'll whine a bit, but in the end I'll deal.
"If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?"
- Abraham Lincoln
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Not if they add more Ghost Falcon-like contacts in the game. You can sell at him and General Hammond, not to mention the level 30 SO stores.
Simply put: this sounds like something he WANTS to do, but can't. The wording of it "If he had a chance, etc" sounds like he hates stores, but other devs or people in power don't want him to touch it.
But even if the stores do disappear, it's not like we don't have Power 10 issues even with them. The Power 10 system needs to be done away with and the drop system would need to be revised. And its the very fact that so much would have to change if those stores were deleted from the game that I think is keeping Statesman from doing it.
In other words: Statesman might hate the stores. But that doesn't mean Geko, Positron, Pohsyb, or another dev hasn't stepped up and smacked him for suggesting they remove them. So please don't call doom until we get a final redname response or it's up on test.
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What's happened to me? You know the first time it happened, I could brush it off with pithy phrases like, "Well even a broken clock is right twice a day." But now I find myself agreeing with Friggen Taser on a regular basis and I don't like it. 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Yep, but that would mean you are prob. high 20 before friending with him (Long Jack I suppose). So any magic would already be slotted while natural and tech have to do all Long Jacks missions as well and as for science and mutation...
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He's the second contact in the Striga arc. If you start out your 20s with just those missions, you can get his enhancements around 21ish.